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and

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Vaccines have never been evaluated in peer-reviewed scientific risk-to-benefit analysis studies.  I used to administer them to other soldiers, and received them as recommended until I learned anatomy & physiology, and the history of vaccines.  From then on, I only got them on paper.  It was at the same time they told us that the Anthrax vaccine series was absolutely worthless, since it was based on an agricultural strain from the Midwest, versus the military-grade Anthrax we had sold to Saddam in the 1980's.  There was a huge push for the Anthrax vaccines in the late 1990's, and early 2000's.  One soldier refused, and filed lawsuit.  We all thought it was just some boat-rocker, but the case brought out the facts, and the Army stopped requiring it.

One of the biggest arguments you hear in favor of vaccines is based on how successful the Salk and Sabin polio vaccines in the 1950's were.  They show a graph of how polio was basically eradicated in the US since the vaccines were introduced.

What they don't show is the rate of polio incidence in the US starting from 1900-the 1950's.  The uncomfortable fact is that the introduction of polio vaccines had absolutely no effect on the rate of polio incidence in the US, since it was already in rapid decline.

What was the reason for polio to be on its way out?  What is the cause of diseases?

In 1907, only 14% of US households had bathtubs.  Bathtubs were a thing of luxury at that time.  Sanitation and waste management were not anywhere near what we have had over the past 60 years.

By the 1950's, almost all households had a bathtub, treated sewage, managed waste, widespread use of toothbrushes and toothpaste, and grocery stores nearby with a vast selection of produce and wholesome foods.

This is why the US has such drastically lower rates of infectious disease, as compared to most of the world.  If you look at tuberculosis, the WHO claims that 1/3 of the entire world is infected with TB.  TB, malaria, and the plague is still rampant in India, Southeast Asia, Africa, Central Asia, and other 3rd World Countries, while these diseases are extremely rare in the US.  Do you think decades of the CDC and WHO administering vaccines to people who live in their own filth has helped them any?

The main factors in preventing disease are:

Sanitation
Nutrition
Daily oral hygiene
Access to hot, clean, running water
Well-managed waste
Shelter

Vaccines have never been shown to provide a benefit over non-vaccinated populations living in the same environments, yet doctors will claim that these studies exist.  Where are they?  Show me some scientific, peer-reviewed studies by researchers who haven't been paid to come to some conclusion by Merck.

Regardless of how you cover down on this issue, you must recognize the volume of money that is involved in the vaccine industry.  We're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

If you look at the COTS studies that were done by an Australian researcher, with 93 peer-reviewed studies in her profession, the results are alarming.  She partnered up with her husband, a  medical electronics designer, to make devices that would be attached to infant's cribs, to monitor some of their vitals before and after administration of vaccines in infants and toddlers.  This was in response to a growing trend of complaints from parents, and crib deaths.

The results:  A direct link to reduced breathing patterns, lower oxygenation, and actual death was demonstrated during the research.  She took her findings to an international conference in Washington D.C., and her European counterparts said they had noticed the same thing, but didn't know what to do.

Nobody wanted to touch her research with a ten foot pole, and it was refuted by doctors with significant backing and bias towards the vaccine industry.  Instead of discussing the results of her studies, where a clear link was shown between the time of vaccination and significant reduction in breathing rates, they attacked her personally, claiming she wasn't qualified to conduct the studies, that her claims about Japan and vaccinations were wrong, etc.

Nobody said, "Hey.  We can fix this real quick.  Let's just send parents home with cot monitors and see if we can duplicate or refute the results."  No need for personal attacks, or debunking.  Just duplicate the research.  Nope.  

Aside from the mercury and thimerisol that has normally been used to "preserve" the disease agent in a vaccine, how does the disease agent work anyway?  We know that mercury is a neurotoxin, so it should come as no surprise that injury will result from injecting it into infants and children.

But how does the disease agent help you?

Here's the theory behind it.  By introducing a mild form of a virus into you, your immune system will form antibodies to deal with that particular disease agent, and will be better equipped in the future to fight infection of that agent in live form.

With the flu virus, they actually take strains of last year's virus, and hybridize it with a genetically-made strain to fight next year's flu virus, based on the region you live in.

How many of you have gotten the flu vaccine, then noticed that you come down with the flu?  Then what happens?  Are you infectious, or not?  You guessed it:  You're infectious.

So much for eradicating disease.

These are some of the reasons why I am now an opponent of vaccination.  I would have never guessed that I would take this position, but the research I have done and what I know about immuno response doesn't compel me to validate vaccination.

If you look at the COTS studies that were done by an Australian researcher, with 93 peer-reviewed studies in her profession, the results are alarming. She partnered up with her husband, a medical electronics designer, to make devices that would be attached to infant's cribs, to monitor some of their vitals before and after administration of vaccines in infants and toddlers. This was in response to a growing trend of complaints from parents, and crib deaths.

The results: A direct link to reduced breathing patterns, lower oxygenation, and actual death was demonstrated during the research. She took her findings to an international conference in Washington D.C., and her European counterparts said they had noticed the same thing, but didn't know what to do.

Nobody wanted to touch her research with a ten foot pole, and it was refuted by doctors with significant backing and bias towards the vaccine industry. Instead of discussing the results of her studies, where a clear link was shown between the time of vaccination and significant reduction in breathing rates, they attacked her personally, claiming she wasn't qualified to conduct the studies, that her claims about Japan and vaccinations were wrong, etc.

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Good luck trying to get that through to the sheeple here.  Gov says jump, they ask how high...

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Who? What is her name? Googling this shows nothing.

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I think part of the mindset of the anti-vaccine crowd is formed by their lack of exposure to childhood diseases that were common in the last century.



"My friend's cousin's sister in law works with a woman whose child has autism and the child was vaccinated agains polio.



I have never met anyone with polio, so I am safer not getting my child vaccinated as I don't want to risk my child being autistic as the result of the vaccine."



Yeah, that thinking may work short term due to herd immunity, but what happens 50 years down the road when the norm is to not vaccinate against polio?



Do a google image search for iron lung wards.



Hell, I worked with a woman who did not think we should spray for mosquitos in the gulf states because malaria does not kill people anymore and pesticides are bad for your health. Really?

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There was an episode of House that dealt with this.

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Yes. Illegal aliens. Not anti-vaccine folks like you're implying.

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A major component of that is rising insurance costs. A number of insurers don't particularly like having a client refuse some forms of treatment, and will financially penalize doctors for allowing their patients to opt out.

Personally, I take the perspective that vaccines are for community health first, and individual health second. Some vaccines just make no sense to administer to children due to little possibility of exposure, lack of serious complications with the illness, or side-effects with an individual patient. I'd be rather annoyed with my insurance company if they wanted for force me to vaccinate a neonate or very young child for chicken pox and HPV.

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Not everyone can get a vaccine because of other complicating medical issues. I'm not worried about getting the whooping cough, but if the infection gets a foothold in a gaggle of anti-vaccine shitfuckers, it could end up killing someone who couldn't be vaccinated.

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If your children are vaccinated why should you worry?

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If doctors start firing patients for being idiots, then they won't have many patients at all.

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This.  Have you ever seen how many TB patients are coming across the border every day?  They go through no medical screening, and immediately are in your city.  Their kids are immediately enrolled in school, and no matter how many vaccinations you pump into your kids, they still will be breathing a strain of TB that your kid never got the vaccine for, so you're back to square one:  Relying on natural immuno-response to combat the disease

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So is it safe to assume that those doctors would sign a document accepting full responsibility for any negative side effects from vaccination?

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Who?  What is her name?  Googling this shows nothing.

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So is it safe to assume that those doctors would sign a document accepting full responsibility for any negative side effects from vaccination?

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military-grade Anthrax we had sold to Saddam in the 1980's.  

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http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wake_up_sheeple.png

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The govenment already protects the doctors and the drug companies. You can get money from the govenment if you prove the vacine is the direct cause.

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Since Ii was a kid, they have mandated HEP B vaccines, and Chicken pox vaccines.

Do you know how Hepatitus B is transmitted?

Via blood contact, usually between partners engaged in anal sex.

Risk groups:

Homosexuals
IV drug users
People with multiple sex partenrs

If you still think that you or your infant/toddler need HEP B vaccines, we have a major problem folks.  You can call names all day, but how many here actually have national registered medical training, versus those who trust blindly when someone sticks a needle in your arm.  I've been on both sides of the issue, and I switched when I learned how immuno response actually works, the theory behind vaccination, and the real statistics behind incidence of disease.

To say you're willing to kill others who choose not to blindly follow is one of the worst statements I've seen made.

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If your children are vaccinated why should you worry?

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Oh BS.

Iraq got the same agricultural strains as everyone else, 21 of them to be exact.



 

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Then they didn't have a good pediatrician to begin with.  Doctors don't like it when they can't push vaccines and drugs on people, because they lose money.  My kid's pediatrician is completely fine with our delayed-vaccine schedule.  This means our kids get vaccines spread apart instead of all at one time, and don't get about half of the ones most doctors push.  Chickenpox vaccine?  HPV for a 2 month old?  What morons actually agree to this?

These parents need to remember that doctors work for them, not the other way around.  If my doctor tried to push something on me I didn't want, that would be my last appointment and I'd find a better doctor the same day.





Wait a second...if you and your family are vaccinated, why are you worried about others "infecting" you?  I thought vaccines were supposed to keep you safe.  

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Negative...you won't find a single doctor that will sign it.  Wonder why that is.

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Viera Scheibner

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What they don't show is the rate of polio incidence in the US starting from 1900-the 1950's.  The uncomfortable fact is that the introduction of polio vaccines had absolutely no effect on the rate of polio incidence in the US, since it was already in rapid decline.

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There's no such thing as a certainty in medicine.  The word "safe" implies the notion of absolute or 100% reliability.  

Is there a "safe" car?  Is there a "safe" airplane?  Can you be "safe" if you leave your house?  Even though the answer is not 100% to any of those questions, that doesn't mean people should hide under their bed and never leave the house.

If you are looking for an answer, then the reality is that the risks associated with getting a vaccine are far lower than the dangers associated with not getting it.  Plus, if enough people refuse vaccines, then it causes a more serious public policy problem, in that diseases that were effectively eliminated can "come back" into urban areas.  So the vaccine refusing idiots endanger not just their own children, but other people.  

People who refuse vaccines for their children are either
(a) fucking morons
(b) genuinely uninformed or ignorant
(c) cowards

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Same reason they wouldn't sign one accepting responsibility after giving you Tylenol.

People are free to not get them, and they'll still benefit from the phenomenon of group immunity.

They're also free to find another physician. I won't see them when I'm fully licensed either.
We're already held accountable for PLENTY that's outside our control. Why push it??

Their choice or my choice.... either way, they aren't my patient.

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And good luck with that.  When you consent to a vaccine, your legal recourse is 0.

Btw-  The US has already had 2 deaths from vaccines in 2012...a 7-year old and a 9-week old.  We're off to a good start.

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And good luck with that.  When you consent to a vaccine, your legal recourse is usually 0.

Btw-  The US has already had 2 deaths from vaccines in 2012...a 7-year old and a 9-week old.  We're off to a good start.





Don't forget the HPV vaccine...a sexually-transmitted disease, and they were trying to give it to infant girls.  And some parents went along with it...seriously??  

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Viera Scheibner

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Wait a second...so one day you will be a licensed doctor, but you will refuse to take patients who exercise their right to deny a vaccine?  Nice regime you're building there.

And btw- How does one refusing a vaccine affect you as a physician?  (Unless you simply don't agree with people having the freedom to choose what medical procedures they get, of course)

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In point of fact I believe that the HPV is for older girls not infant, around 12 if I recall.

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Simple- If they don't trust me to take my advisement regarding disease treatment or prevention, then we don't have a physician-patient relationship. They can deny the vaccine as loudly as they want.... and find someone that is willing to listen.

Are you saying I should be FORCED into treating them? Odd.

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SO are the vaccines safe then?

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YES vaccines are perfectly safe.    

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Are you seriously saying that if a patient doesn't want a medical procedure performed on them, you will not have them as a patient??

Good grief...yeah, good luck with your practice after that word gets around town.  

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That's called Reductio ad absurdum by the way.

But patients are free to choose another physician if the vaccine issue is so important to them. It is to me.

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national registered medical training,

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I have a theory: 100 years from now, the entire population of the United States, will...



1) Be autistic. Or...



2) Have ADD. Or...



3) Be lactose intolerant. Or...



4) Have a peanut allergy.