Quoted: I'd give more thought and sympathy to the indians over the lawn maintenance crew.

Really?  I rarely feel sympathy for whiney losers of any stripe.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1. Spanish Conquistadors took their land, gold, and women. the Spanish they speak also came    from Spain. 2. we spanked Spain, and took the land from them (read " Spoils of War"). 3. we felt bad for them, and threw them a little money for their northern territory, which was by    right, ours anyway. This is one of those situations where it would please me to say "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" Actually, the Spaniards had already been gone for quite some time.  I believe the previous owners to us were the French.  We had a little shooting war with the Mexican Govt.  After we took Mexico City, a truce was negotiated during which the land in question was ceded to us in return for our withdrawal and a payment. Agreed. However,  If I am not mistaken, of course, their supposed claim to the southwestern U.S. predates Spanish colonization, as is evidenced by the current reference to " Aztlan". Actually the claims to California and huge parts of the southwest are from the old spanish claims. The original indigenous people of Mexico were nowhere near what is currently the southern border with Mexico (Central Mexico and southof there). If there are ancient ruins of people of indeginous roots (Olmecs, Teotihuacans, Toltecs, Zapotecs, Miztecs, Mayans or Aztecs please let me know where they are) anywhere in the US borders Bogus claim on their part. Also when the treaty was signed it was agreed to surrender land as one of the conditions of defeat, as well as payment for outstanding debts from loans to the Mexican Gov't prior to the Mexican-American War. The Mexican government was also given compensation to what would be close to 630 million in today's dollars in addition to the forgiveness of prior debts as well as reassurances that all individual claims to personal property by Mexican Nationals would be respected. Land was surrendered as payment of old debts, forfeiture by losing the war and still paid for. Agreed to, bought and paid for.  They have no claims- done deal. They said that there was about 7000 people of  Mexican descent in the California territory and about 50,000 in New Mexico (out of a total population of 8 million Mexicans) at  the time of the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hildalgo. Also rather amusing is the Aztlan claim of a peaciful existence when the history of mesoamericans are rife with examples of human sacrifce and slavery of defeated opponents. That whole Spaniards don't count thing is kinda funny too.

On top of that the bumper stickers on their cars (SUVs?) typically read: Jalisco, Michoacan, Oaxaca, Sinaloa . . . all provinces WAYYYYY south of the border.

That said, they are hardly the conquered and occupied victims of Yanqui agression!

I have to side with my late Step- Father on this one.
He was a Cherokee Indian, we conquered they honored each lost as a American and as a Warrior.
There is no love lost between the Indian Tribes and the Mexicans.. At least we had honor.

I live in New Mexico USA, The situation over here with illegal Mexicans is out of control, There are too many, How are Americans supposed to get good paying jobs when there is a Mexican willing to work for pennies.

Quoted: If they are trying to take back stolen land from the U.S., then they can not have Texas. For Texas WON it's independance from mexico with the help of mexicans. It then joined the U.S. nine years later by it's own request. FUCK MEXICO!!!

Yeah, I saw the movie, too!

WTF?  How convenient that they always seem to forget their Spanish ancestry.. which massacred my ancestors' land (the Philippines).  

No respect for borders and sovereignty.  I read a book called Borderlands that explicitly pointed out the treaty that signed Texas over from Mexico, and it was still considered "stolen."  

I'd love to see these people try to illegally immigrate to any other country.  It's sad how the U.S. gets walked all over like it does these days..

Quoted: We should turn California into (post) Yugoslavia.

I'm not even sure that would be a bad thing. Not a collection of provinces (counties) in some larger land, but break up into about three or four states.  Northern California is VERY (with the San Francisco area excised) different from Central and SOuthern CAlifornia.  I could easily see myself up there (costs aside): I can quite identify with the people.  One bar owner in Mendocino, when there was some discussion about extending a freeway into the Western County from SF, said the local people would blow it up: I said I'd help.  Most of Southern California, from LA County to SLO is airheads andthe clueless brainwashed.  (I suppose I'll give a pass to those who are stuck there for work reasons, but they know they have no say).

So what if they took over the US southwest?  What if it became Aztlan and they drove out the Anglos?  

No welfare.

No free medical care.

No Gringos to pay them for yard work and building patios.

It would be just like Mexico.

Quoted: WAR ..

Good God.  Huh.

GO HERE AND VOLUNTEER FOR YOUR STATE!!!!!!!!!!!  OTHERWISE, QUIT BITCHING

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=455303

Quoted: So what if they took over the US southwest?  What if it became Aztlan and they drove out the Anglos?   No welfare. No free medical care. No Gringos to pay them for yard work and building patios. It would be just like Mexico.

I guess they will have to keep migrating north and east.

Quoted: Dear Mexicans:   YOU LOST BECAUSE YOU SUCKED BACK THEN. YOU LOSE.  YOU'LL NEVER GET YOUR LAND BACK. NOW GET BACK TO WORK.  THERE'S A LOT OF SOD LEFT TO BE PUT DOWN AND MY DINNER PARTY BEGINS AT 6 PM!

Too Funny!

They do not have to lift a finger though...  if the current trend of invasion continues and they are given citizenship on a golden platter, they will have a voting majority as many whites and other non Mexican demographics are too lazy to vote..

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1. Spanish Conquistadors took their land, gold, and women. the Spanish they speak also came    from Spain. 2. we spanked Spain, and took the land from them (read " Spoils of War"). 3. we felt bad for them, and threw them a little money for their northern territory, which was by    right, ours anyway. This is one of those situations where it would please me to say "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" Actually, the Spaniards had already been gone for quite some time.  I believe the previous owners to us were the French.  We had a little shooting war with the Mexican Govt.  After we took Mexico City, a truce was negotiated during which the land in question was ceded to us in return for our withdrawal and a payment. Agreed. However,  If I am not mistaken, of course, their supposed claim to the southwestern U.S. predates Spanish colonization, as is evidenced by the current reference to " Aztlan". Actually the claims to California and huge parts of the southwest are from the old spanish claims. The original indigenous people of Mexico were nowhere near what is currently the southern border with Mexico (Central Mexico and southof there). If there are ancient ruins of people of indeginous roots (Olmecs, Teotihuacans, Toltecs, Zapotecs, Miztecs, Mayans or Aztecs please let me know where they are) anywhere in the US borders Bogus claim on their part. Also when the treaty was signed it was agreed to surrender land as one of the conditions of defeat, as well as payment for outstanding debts from loans to the Mexican Gov't prior to the Mexican-American War. The Mexican government was also given compensation to what would be close to 630 million in today's dollars in addition to the forgiveness of prior debts as well as reassurances that all individual claims to personal property by Mexican Nationals would be respected. Land was surrendered as payment of old debts, forfeiture by losing the war and still paid for. Agreed to, bought and paid for.  They have no claims- done deal. They said that there was about 7000 people of  Mexican descent in the California territory and about 50,000 in New Mexico (out of a total population of 8 million Mexicans) at  the time of the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hildalgo. Also rather amusing is the Aztlan claim of a peaciful existence when the history of mesoamericans are rife with examples of human sacrifce and slavery of defeated opponents. That whole Spaniards don't count thing is kinda funny too. On top of that the bumper stickers on their cars (SUVs?) typically read: Jalisco, Michoacan, Oaxaca, Sinaloa . . . all provinces WAYYYYY south of the border. That said, they are hardly the conquered and occupied victims of Yanqui agression!

Agreed all.  This illustrates even further the point I was trying to make.  The whole "give us our land back" schtick is a world class crock of shit.  You could spin this to read "give the spanish their land back", "give the Portuguese their land back", "give the French their land back" etc.  

To take it even futher, which one of the original Indian groups would lay true claim to all this land?  Good luck figuring that one out.  As pointed out, few, if any, actually lived up here.  It was American Indian land long before it was ever Mexican Indian land.

The way I see it; we didn't take it, they lost it.  It was sheer societal evolution that did them in.  They were unable to develop as a culture, socially, or technologically, to have any hope of not being either assimilated or wiped out by the first European (or even Asian) settlers to colonize.

It's not racism to point that out.  Simple logic dictates that a society that could not develop the wheel in 10,000 years will get steamrolled by a society as advanced as the Europeans at the time.  I will grant that in a perfect scenario the assimilation/integration of the land and people should have been conscientious and equitable.  It was not in many cases and there is nothing that can be done about that 150 years after the fact.  No one alive can be blamed for any of those actions.

In short, STFU and become an American, or STFU and go back to wherever it is that was so great you had to come here in the first place.

Why don't these ignorant, self-righteous bastidges take it to the SPANIARDS! THEY are the ones who stole their land, raped their women and ran off with the gold. If not for the conquistadors, they'd still be the tiny, hegemonic Indians they were, speaking their native languages and running their own countries. Coming after the US is just a variation on suing the biggest pockets. We didn't do it, but we have the greatest ability to pay if convicted. If they're so goddamn proud, why are they protesting in SPANISH? I think they'd have an easy time of it, messing with Spain. Look how easily they rolled over for al quaida!

It's not at all clear to me which fanciful interpretation of historical time they want to return to.

Do they want to be Indians, or peasants living under a feudal system run by a handful of wealthy Spanish landowners?

Quoted: Why don't these ignorant, self-righteous bastidges take it to the SPANIARDS! THEY are the ones who stole their land, raped their women and ran off with the gold. If not for the conquistadors, they'd still be the tiny, hegemonic Indians they were, speaking their native languages and running their own countries. Coming after the US is just a variation on suing the biggest pockets. We didn't do it, but we have the greatest ability to pay if convicted. If they're so goddamn proud, why are they protesting in SPANISH? I think they'd have an easy time of it, messing with Spain. Look how easily they rolled over for al quaida!

Since Spain gave amnesty to 700,000 illegal aliens a few weeks ago, the Feds should deport our illegals there too!  Then the Aztlanistas can bark up the right tree for a change!

Quoted: Why don't these ignorant, self-righteous bastidges take it to the SPANIARDS! THEY are the ones who stole their land, raped their women and ran off with the gold. If not for the conquistadors, they'd still be the tiny, hegemonic Indians they were, speaking their native languages and running their own countries. Coming after the US is just a variation on suing the biggest pockets. We didn't do it, but we have the greatest ability to pay if convicted. If they're so goddamn proud, why are they protesting in SPANISH? I think they'd have an easy time of it, messing with Spain. Look how easily they rolled over for al quaida!

But they have always been that way, never ever ask one why they speak Spanish and not their indigenous dialect.  Unless of course you want to see someones head explode.  

Quoted: It's not at all clear to me which fanciful interpretation of historical time they want to return to. Do they want to be Indians, or peasants living under a feudal system run by a handful of wealthy Spanish landowners?

I'm not sure they know that themselves...

Actually if we "gave back" Mexican territory...they would belong to Spain again.

Just a reminder.