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Posted: 10/3/2014 12:33:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah..I bet he needed new underoos after that one. 
What's a hardened thread gauge sound like when it hits a turret at 3900 sfm? My worst was on a sub spindle lathe, running an internal expanding collet job. Making some tight tolerance chromoly parts. OP forgot to remove the finished part on the sub, loaded the next part and somehow managed to clear the part present error. Fed new part into old part at the aforementioned 1500ipm. Killed both expanding collets and knocked both main and sub out of alignment....didn't do those really expensive ssd pintle bearings any good either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The best one in my recollection is the guy who (card carrying journeyman btw) stopped a TC to check a thread with a go/nogo gage in the face of the part (good boy!). Unfortunately he left the gage in the part, shut the door and hit the green button, and sent the turret into the go/nogo gage while it was spinning 1500 RPM and on a 10" BC. Jesus fucking christ 
What's a hardened thread gauge sound like when it hits a turret at 3900 sfm? My worst was on a sub spindle lathe, running an internal expanding collet job. Making some tight tolerance chromoly parts. OP forgot to remove the finished part on the sub, loaded the next part and somehow managed to clear the part present error. Fed new part into old part at the aforementioned 1500ipm. Killed both expanding collets and knocked both main and sub out of alignment....didn't do those really expensive ssd pintle bearings any good either. ouch ouch ouch |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 12:33:14 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Four brand new spindl;es in a single year old Fadal 4020 in '06 or '07 and we weren't making molds either. All plastic and aluminum that ran on that machine. In my experience Fadal has a serious problem making corners unless you slow it wayyyyy down for it. We kept getting these weird faceted shapes with a 3/8 Destiny 3 flute at 10,000 RPM doing 40 IPM in Mic-6 Aluminum cast plate. Had to slow it down to 15 IPM before we could get it to keep up at the corners. Software glitches. Too much cutter comp in practically any machine ever made and it just alrams and says it can't get there. On our 6030 it figured it meant go to the other side of the cutter so instead of getting a CW arc with a dovetail cutter it went CCW to try to catch the comp. Left the end of that cutter buried in the aluminum and headed for mexico. Random decisions on the part of the machine to just put that hole somewhere else. Just, you know, because. They were a tap breaking, spindle eating mess with personality issues. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Would love to have a 5 axis machine! If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking at the Haas due to the low volume. However, I am not familiar with their controls or software issues. Have you considered a used machine? I have and learned on a Fadal 4020HT machine, and added a 4th axis. I have crashed the fuck out of it, and have a 20lb bin of shame of broken carbide. But this thing is a tank, and I've never damaged the spindle... I bought a Super Kia Turn LMS turning center with live tooling and sub spindle....Fanuc control. 8 months ago. I haven't touched it yet because I am afraid I will crash it....good investment? No. Someday I will be making some suppressors (07/02 FFL). For now, I use my stuff to make very low volume specialized end of arm tooling, weld fixtures, and other items for robotic automation projects. Software - if you are using Solidworks, I would recommend you check out HSMWorks. They are owned by Autodesk now, but who isnt? Anyway - they have a VERY nice CAM package that is integrated into Solidworks. The 3D toolpath version (3-4 axis) will run you about $10g's, this is what I have. Their 5-axis stuff is a bit more. Still, check it out. I've used both it and MasterCAM and the workflow in HSMWorks is so much better IMO, especially being integrated into Solidworks. My .02. Side note - I've tried a few billet AR lowers on my Fadal before adding the 4th axis. Difficult to do that shit w/o the 4th axis for sure. When I have more time to put into it, I expect to put a few out. Stay away from Fadal. I am not kidding. They're an orphan now and Gene Haas used to work for them but they wouldn't build a good enough machine for him so he started Haas Automation and built a way better machine. DO. NOT. BUY. A. FADAL. My Fadal paid for itself on the first job I ran with it. Now it makes me money every time I use it. This is bad how? Also ETA - I did not recommend he buy a Fadal. $160 to $300k is a far bigger budget than the $12k I have in mine. But the return on investment was quick for my applications. I am not making injection molds dude. Four brand new spindl;es in a single year old Fadal 4020 in '06 or '07 and we weren't making molds either. All plastic and aluminum that ran on that machine. In my experience Fadal has a serious problem making corners unless you slow it wayyyyy down for it. We kept getting these weird faceted shapes with a 3/8 Destiny 3 flute at 10,000 RPM doing 40 IPM in Mic-6 Aluminum cast plate. Had to slow it down to 15 IPM before we could get it to keep up at the corners. Software glitches. Too much cutter comp in practically any machine ever made and it just alrams and says it can't get there. On our 6030 it figured it meant go to the other side of the cutter so instead of getting a CW arc with a dovetail cutter it went CCW to try to catch the comp. Left the end of that cutter buried in the aluminum and headed for mexico. Random decisions on the part of the machine to just put that hole somewhere else. Just, you know, because. They were a tap breaking, spindle eating mess with personality issues. Here I will agree with you. Mine is a 1995 machine. It chokes on 3D High Speed tool paths, and eats taps. Tool changes are slow. I have run into glitches as well. It has its issues. But - again, for me, this machine has been a gem. I don't have to worry about making eleventybillion parts in a day. I run 2-3 parts, change to a different part and setup, run a few, change again, run a few more, and my project is done. For what I do, it's perfect. Would I like a newer and better machine - sure. Will I buy one - sure, when I need one. Not sure it will be a Haas. Would like a Fanuc control since they share so many parts with Fanuc robots, which I have an enormous spare parts room full of. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 12:36:59 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Four brand new spindl;es in a single year old Fadal 4020 in '06 or '07 and we weren't making molds either. All plastic and aluminum that ran on that machine. In my experience Fadal has a serious problem making corners unless you slow it wayyyyy down for it. We kept getting these weird faceted shapes with a 3/8 Destiny 3 flute at 10,000 RPM doing 40 IPM in Mic-6 Aluminum cast plate. Had to slow it down to 15 IPM before we could get it to keep up at the corners. Software glitches. Too much cutter comp in practically any machine ever made and it just alrams and says it can't get there. On our 6030 it figured it meant go to the other side of the cutter so instead of getting a CW arc with a dovetail cutter it went CCW to try to catch the comp. Left the end of that cutter buried in the aluminum and headed for mexico. Random decisions on the part of the machine to just put that hole somewhere else. Just, you know, because. They were a tap breaking, spindle eating mess with personality issues. Was a Fanuc control or the Fadal whatever? Were you using at least G08 look ahead? Wouldn't help the loop around problem, but the cornering should be fine. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 12:38:30 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been running HSMWorks for about 3 years now and really like it. I don't have any info to add on their 5 axis, but they have a user forum with some nice folks who seem to answer pretty quick. It's worth an ask of other 5-axis users, and it's worth contacting Nexgen CAM to see if you can get a free 30 day demo, which I am almost positive they will offer you. They are also excellent in any issues with posts for your machine, and will work with you to customize it if needed.... http://camforum.autodesk.com/ http://nexgencam.com/ I am not a machinist by trade. I am an ME and own a robotics company. Decided one day I wanted to mount a rifle to a robot. Ended up with an 07/02 and a few funny facial expressions from the ATF agent who interviewed me. LOL. When I have time, I'll finish one and post a video. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Would love to have a 5 axis machine! If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking at the Haas due to the low volume. However, I am not familiar with their controls or software issues. Have you considered a used machine? I have and learned on a Fadal 4020HT machine, and added a 4th axis. I have crashed the fuck out of it, and have a 20lb bin of shame of broken carbide. But this thing is a tank, and I've never damaged the spindle... I bought a Super Kia Turn LMS turning center with live tooling and sub spindle....Fanuc control. 8 months ago. I haven't touched it yet because I am afraid I will crash it....good investment? No. Someday I will be making some suppressors (07/02 FFL). For now, I use my stuff to make very low volume specialized end of arm tooling, weld fixtures, and other items for robotic automation projects. Software - if you are using Solidworks, I would recommend you check out HSMWorks. They are owned by Autodesk now, but who isnt? Anyway - they have a VERY nice CAM package that is integrated into Solidworks. The 3D toolpath version (3-4 axis) will run you about $10g's, this is what I have. Their 5-axis stuff is a bit more. Still, check it out. I've used both it and MasterCAM and the workflow in HSMWorks is so much better IMO, especially being integrated into Solidworks. My .02. Side note - I've tried a few billet AR lowers on my Fadal before adding the 4th axis. Difficult to do that shit w/o the 4th axis for sure. When I have more time to put into it, I expect to put a few out. ETA - if you get into using a Faro, look at Hires from reverseengineering.com - I use this with my older RS232 Faro Silver arm....It is also integrated into Solidworks, so you are digitizing into a Solidworks model... Looking to stay with new over used for two reasons. 1) Desperate for a tax write off this year, and 2) don't want to be messing with unknowns or mistreatment from the past. I'm an 07/02 also. Finishing some 80% M240 sideplates will be great fun  As for the software, I'll check it out. For the prices you've mentioned there, I'm very interested, as it seems a 5 axis version of MasterCAM will run around 35-40K. I've been running HSMWorks for about 3 years now and really like it. I don't have any info to add on their 5 axis, but they have a user forum with some nice folks who seem to answer pretty quick. It's worth an ask of other 5-axis users, and it's worth contacting Nexgen CAM to see if you can get a free 30 day demo, which I am almost positive they will offer you. They are also excellent in any issues with posts for your machine, and will work with you to customize it if needed.... http://camforum.autodesk.com/ http://nexgencam.com/ I am not a machinist by trade. I am an ME and own a robotics company. Decided one day I wanted to mount a rifle to a robot. Ended up with an 07/02 and a few funny facial expressions from the ATF agent who interviewed me. LOL. When I have time, I'll finish one and post a video. Last I looked HSM wasn't talking much about simultaneous 5ax...with autodesk's purchase of several other cam companies they may have rolled that expertise into it by now. If they did it's about the best thing you can do in solidworks.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 12:40:52 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If I had to break down the likely work into percentages, it would be roughly as follows: 60% Aluminum (some heads, turbocharger parts, turbo and automotive plumbing adapters of ungodly shapes, brackets, etc) No Problem. It's what Haas lives on. 20% Cast Iron (other heads, some exhaust housings and manifolds, pedestals and mounts, etc) No Problem. It's soft, makes a nice chip, and except for sand pockets and shit machines well at aggresive speeds, feeds and DOC. It's pretty dirty though, and will lead to a higher coolant usage. 15% Steel of mild or moderate harness Again, should not be a problem depending on what you're trying to do. 1018? No real issues there. A2? Yeah, you may have some headaches. 5% 4140, Titanium, Inconel, or other aggravating materials Titanium is....touchy but not too bad. Stainless can be a real bitch and you want to think lower speed, heaver feed. Inconel, farm it out. Not to me either. Off the top of my head, many of the smaller parts of such materials as Inconel, would need to be done on a lathe anyway due to shape. A decent CNC Toolroom lathe is on my list at some point. From browsing their site, a VF-5SS equipped as I'd like along with an appropriately sized 2 axis rotary table or trunnion for under 175K. And that has a bigger table than I'd probably ever need. From Mr. Geissele's comments, the 15,000RPM spindle speed will help out with small tools and working with aluminum? (I'm totally unversed on these details.) The VF5 looks as though it would take a good deal more load than the UMC anyways, if I do deal with stainless, etc.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 12:43:08 AM EDT
[#6]
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Was a Fanuc control or the Fadal whatever? Were you using at least G08 look ahead? Wouldn't help the loop around problem, but the cornering should be fine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Four brand new spindl;es in a single year old Fadal 4020 in '06 or '07 and we weren't making molds either. All plastic and aluminum that ran on that machine. In my experience Fadal has a serious problem making corners unless you slow it wayyyyy down for it. We kept getting these weird faceted shapes with a 3/8 Destiny 3 flute at 10,000 RPM doing 40 IPM in Mic-6 Aluminum cast plate. Had to slow it down to 15 IPM before we could get it to keep up at the corners. Software glitches. Too much cutter comp in practically any machine ever made and it just alrams and says it can't get there. On our 6030 it figured it meant go to the other side of the cutter so instead of getting a CW arc with a dovetail cutter it went CCW to try to catch the comp. Left the end of that cutter buried in the aluminum and headed for mexico. Random decisions on the part of the machine to just put that hole somewhere else. Just, you know, because. They were a tap breaking, spindle eating mess with personality issues. Was a Fanuc control or the Fadal whatever? Were you using at least G08 look ahead? Wouldn't help the loop around problem, but the cornering should be fine. That was the Fadal package, not the Fanuc. Hell, they didn't even tell us there was a Fanuc package available when we talked to them. They didn't bring it up until we had had the techs out at least three times on the faceted corner issues and one of them finally said something along th elines of "You should have bought the Fanuc package. The Fadal motors just can't keep up". 
There wasn't anything we could do other than just slow down for the corners. We had *very* knowledgeable people at that shop too. Those 4020's just couldn't do it. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 12:44:19 AM EDT
[#7]
For what you're doing, I fall in the camp of the "uh..." guys. If you buy the machine, hire a really good machinist. Or contract a really good machinist to come in when you need to. Or hell, contract with a local machine shop to do the work for you. I think you'd come out money ahead, to be honest. Let's go ahead and skip past the training time and expense, and talk about the actual machining. It will take you weeks to do what they'll be able to do in a couple days. They've got the experience to address an issue in 30 seconds (or prevent in the first place) something that would have you banging your head against the wall for the whole day. I understand the attraction to having in-house capability, but I just think it could have a brutal learning curve and waste hundreds of thousands of dollars in time and real money. It sounds like your business is doing well. Continue doing what you (personally you) are doing to make it successful. If you get the machine, get someone who has 10 years of experience setting up and programming to do run it. It will take you too long to become proficient enough, and it will distract you from doing what you've done to make the biz successful.
Analogy time: If you wanted to buy a Cessna 172, I'd say "Sweet! Take some lessons, you'll be soloing within a year." If you wanted to buy a Gulfstream jet, I'd say "Sweet! Hire a pilot." Just my two cents. I'm a couple years into the field, and I'm still trying to drink from a firehose. There is SO much to learn. So, so much. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 12:52:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Given the fact that the UMC won't do true simultaneous 5 axis, I'm probably going to need to move into the VF series stuff anyways. From browsing their site, a VF-5SS equipped as I'd like along with an appropriately sized 2 axis rotary table or trunnion for under 175K. And that has a bigger table than I'd probably ever need. From Mr. Geissele's comments, the 15,000RPM spindle speed will help out with small tools and working with aluminum? (I'm totally unversed on these details.) The VF5 looks as though it would take a good deal more load than the UMC anyways, if I do deal with stainless, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If I had to break down the likely work into percentages, it would be roughly as follows: 60% Aluminum (some heads, turbocharger parts, turbo and automotive plumbing adapters of ungodly shapes, brackets, etc) No Problem. It's what Haas lives on. 20% Cast Iron (other heads, some exhaust housings and manifolds, pedestals and mounts, etc) No Problem. It's soft, makes a nice chip, and except for sand pockets and shit machines well at aggresive speeds, feeds and DOC. It's pretty dirty though, and will lead to a higher coolant usage. 15% Steel of mild or moderate harness Again, should not be a problem depending on what you're trying to do. 1018? No real issues there. A2? Yeah, you may have some headaches. 5% 4140, Titanium, Inconel, or other aggravating materials Titanium is....touchy but not too bad. Stainless can be a real bitch and you want to think lower speed, heaver feed. Inconel, farm it out. Not to me either. Off the top of my head, many of the smaller parts of such materials as Inconel, would need to be done on a lathe anyway due to shape. A decent CNC Toolroom lathe is on my list at some point. From browsing their site, a VF-5SS equipped as I'd like along with an appropriately sized 2 axis rotary table or trunnion for under 175K. And that has a bigger table than I'd probably ever need. From Mr. Geissele's comments, the 15,000RPM spindle speed will help out with small tools and working with aluminum? (I'm totally unversed on these details.) The VF5 looks as though it would take a good deal more load than the UMC anyways, if I do deal with stainless, etc. Higher RPM is usually a good thing especially for aluminum. It reduces cutting pressure and taking lot's and lot's of screaming fast passes at shallow depths is often times faster than taking fewer deep passes at a slower feed. But, there's a trade off there. The higher the RPM the more delicate the spindle. Also at that speed you're going to be having to buy balanced tool holders and you should be getting a shrink fitting set up to use heat shrink holding. Look, I dig your go get 'em outlook but I think you should invest some time talking with a few shops in your area about your questions. I would really hate to see you step into a world of bills, bills, and more bills just to find out that it turns out it would actually be faster and cheaper to shop around for better lead times and prices from someone that already has everything ready to go. I'm not telling you not to do this on your own ever, but I am telling you to do a little better research first. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 12:52:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For what you're doing, I fall in the camp of the "uh..." guys. If you buy the machine, hire a really good machinist. Or contract a really good machinist to come in when you need to. Or hell, contract with a local machine shop to do the work for you. I think you'd come out money ahead, to be honest. Let's go ahead and skip past the training time and expense, and talk about the actual machining. It will take you weeks to do what they'll be able to do in a couple days. They've got the experience to address an issue in 30 seconds (or prevent in the first place) something that would have you banging your head against the wall for the whole day. I understand the attraction to having in-house capability, but I just think it could have a brutal learning curve and waste hundreds of thousands of dollars in time and real money. It sounds like your business is doing well. Continue doing what you (personally you) are doing to make it successful. If you get the machine, get someone who has 10 years of experience setting up and programming to do run it. It will take you too long to become proficient enough, and it will distract you from doing what you've done to make the biz successful. Analogy time: If you wanted to buy a Cessna 172, I'd say "Sweet! Take some lessons, you'll be soloing within a year." If you wanted to buy a Gulfstream jet, I'd say "Sweet! Hire a pilot." Just my two cents. I'm a couple years into the field, and I'm still trying to drink from a firehose. There is SO much to learn. So, so much. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I wish I would have read this before buying my live tooling machine...I needed you to save me from myself 
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:02:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Higher RPM is usually a good thing especially for aluminum. It reduces cutting pressure and taking lot's and lot's of screaming fast passes at shallow depths is often times faster than taking fewer deep passes at a slower feed. But, there's a trade off there. The higher the RPM the more delicate the spindle. Also at that speed you're going to be having to buy balanced tool holders and you should be getting a shrink fitting set up to use heat shrink holding. Look, I dig your go get 'em outlook but I think you should invest some time talking with a few shops in your area about your questions. I would really hate to see you step into a world of bills, bills, and more bills just to find out that it turns out it would actually be faster and cheaper to shop around for better lead times and prices from someone that already has everything ready to go. I'm not telling you not to do this on your own ever, but I am telling you to do a little better research first. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If I had to break down the likely work into percentages, it would be roughly as follows: 60% Aluminum (some heads, turbocharger parts, turbo and automotive plumbing adapters of ungodly shapes, brackets, etc) No Problem. It's what Haas lives on. 20% Cast Iron (other heads, some exhaust housings and manifolds, pedestals and mounts, etc) No Problem. It's soft, makes a nice chip, and except for sand pockets and shit machines well at aggresive speeds, feeds and DOC. It's pretty dirty though, and will lead to a higher coolant usage. 15% Steel of mild or moderate harness Again, should not be a problem depending on what you're trying to do. 1018? No real issues there. A2? Yeah, you may have some headaches. 5% 4140, Titanium, Inconel, or other aggravating materials Titanium is....touchy but not too bad. Stainless can be a real bitch and you want to think lower speed, heaver feed. Inconel, farm it out. Not to me either. Off the top of my head, many of the smaller parts of such materials as Inconel, would need to be done on a lathe anyway due to shape. A decent CNC Toolroom lathe is on my list at some point. From browsing their site, a VF-5SS equipped as I'd like along with an appropriately sized 2 axis rotary table or trunnion for under 175K. And that has a bigger table than I'd probably ever need. From Mr. Geissele's comments, the 15,000RPM spindle speed will help out with small tools and working with aluminum? (I'm totally unversed on these details.) The VF5 looks as though it would take a good deal more load than the UMC anyways, if I do deal with stainless, etc. Higher RPM is usually a good thing especially for aluminum. It reduces cutting pressure and taking lot's and lot's of screaming fast passes at shallow depths is often times faster than taking fewer deep passes at a slower feed. But, there's a trade off there. The higher the RPM the more delicate the spindle. Also at that speed you're going to be having to buy balanced tool holders and you should be getting a shrink fitting set up to use heat shrink holding. Look, I dig your go get 'em outlook but I think you should invest some time talking with a few shops in your area about your questions. I would really hate to see you step into a world of bills, bills, and more bills just to find out that it turns out it would actually be faster and cheaper to shop around for better lead times and prices from someone that already has everything ready to go. I'm not telling you not to do this on your own ever, but I am telling you to do a little better research first. I've plundered our area for good shops before and came up relatively empty-handed. This area of Western NC just doesn't seem to be much of a hub for that type of manufacturing anymore, sadly. Lots of assets to be had (especially in performance) in the Denver/Concord/Charlotte area, but I simply need a more easily (and quickly) accessible solution. As NoStockBikes suggested, however, I'm not against hiring someone part-time, perhaps full time if needed, to run the machine. Especially while I learn. At least that's readily available, and I can hand a staff member a SolidWorks drawing of what I need and wash my hands of it. Do have a couple people in mind that would be reasonably well-qualified and local (within 15 minutes) of our shop. ETA- I will openly admit that some of my desire to do this roots in the fact that I'm an impatient motherfucker. If I need it now, I want it done 5 minutes ago and shipped UPS Yesterday Express. I'm much more productive and stay on task better that way, because in 10 minutes I'm distracted with something else if not on task  |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:03:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryI wish I would have read this before buying my live tooling machine...I needed you to save me from myself I wrote a macro for broaching an internal tapered keyway. Basically using a custom ground tool and intentionally smacking the tool into the part repeatedly. Worked pretty well! Just about crapped my pants setting it up though.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:08:30 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just looked up the heat shrink setup. Fucking nifty, wasn't aware of it before, was only aware of balanced holders. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If I had to break down the likely work into percentages, it would be roughly as follows: 60% Aluminum (some heads, turbocharger parts, turbo and automotive plumbing adapters of ungodly shapes, brackets, etc) No Problem. It's what Haas lives on. 20% Cast Iron (other heads, some exhaust housings and manifolds, pedestals and mounts, etc) No Problem. It's soft, makes a nice chip, and except for sand pockets and shit machines well at aggresive speeds, feeds and DOC. It's pretty dirty though, and will lead to a higher coolant usage. 15% Steel of mild or moderate harness Again, should not be a problem depending on what you're trying to do. 1018? No real issues there. A2? Yeah, you may have some headaches. 5% 4140, Titanium, Inconel, or other aggravating materials Titanium is....touchy but not too bad. Stainless can be a real bitch and you want to think lower speed, heaver feed. Inconel, farm it out. Not to me either. Off the top of my head, many of the smaller parts of such materials as Inconel, would need to be done on a lathe anyway due to shape. A decent CNC Toolroom lathe is on my list at some point. From browsing their site, a VF-5SS equipped as I'd like along with an appropriately sized 2 axis rotary table or trunnion for under 175K. And that has a bigger table than I'd probably ever need. From Mr. Geissele's comments, the 15,000RPM spindle speed will help out with small tools and working with aluminum? (I'm totally unversed on these details.) The VF5 looks as though it would take a good deal more load than the UMC anyways, if I do deal with stainless, etc. Higher RPM is usually a good thing especially for aluminum. It reduces cutting pressure and taking lot's and lot's of screaming fast passes at shallow depths is often times faster than taking fewer deep passes at a slower feed. But, there's a trade off there. The higher the RPM the more delicate the spindle. Also at that speed you're going to be having to buy balanced tool holders and you should be getting a shrink fitting set up to use heat shrink holding. Look, I dig your go get 'em outlook but I think you should invest some time talking with a few shops in your area about your questions. I would really hate to see you step into a world of bills, bills, and more bills just to find out that it turns out it would actually be faster and cheaper to shop around for better lead times and prices from someone that already has everything ready to go. I'm not telling you not to do this on your own ever, but I am telling you to do a little better research first. I've plundered our area for good shops before and came up relatively empty-handed. This area of Western NC just doesn't seem to be much of a hub for that type of manufacturing anymore, sadly. Lots of assets to be had (especially in performance) in the Denver/Concord/Charlotte area, but I simply need a more easily (and quickly) accessible solution. As NoStockBikes suggested, however, I'm not against hiring someone part-time, perhaps full time if needed, to run the machine. Especially while I learn. At least that's readily available, and I can hand a staff member a SolidWorks drawing of what I need and wash my hands of it. Do have a couple people in mind that would be reasonably well-qualified and local (within 15 minutes) of our shop. ETA- I will openly admit that some of my desire to do this roots in the fact that I'm an impatient motherfucker. If I need it now, I want it done 5 minutes ago and shipped UPS Yesterday Express. I'm much more productive and stay on task better that way, because in 10 minutes I'm distracted with something else if not on task Heat shrink setting fixtures will run you some $ |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:08:55 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For what you're doing, I fall in the camp of the "uh..." guys. If you buy the machine, hire a really good machinist. Or contract a really good machinist to come in when you need to. Or hell, contract with a local machine shop to do the work for you. I think you'd come out money ahead, to be honest. Let's go ahead and skip past the training time and expense, and talk about the actual machining. It will take you weeks to do what they'll be able to do in a couple days. They've got the experience to address an issue in 30 seconds (or prevent in the first place) something that would have you banging your head against the wall for the whole day. I understand the attraction to having in-house capability, but I just think it could have a brutal learning curve and waste hundreds of thousands of dollars in time and real money. It sounds like your business is doing well. Continue doing what you (personally you) are doing to make it successful. If you get the machine, get someone who has 10 years of experience setting up and programming to do run it. It will take you too long to become proficient enough, and it will distract you from doing what you've done to make the biz successful. Analogy time: If you wanted to buy a Cessna 172, I'd say "Sweet! Take some lessons, you'll be soloing within a year." If you wanted to buy a Gulfstream jet, I'd say "Sweet! Hire a pilot." Just my two cents. I'm a couple years into the field, and I'm still trying to drink from a firehose. There is SO much to learn. So, so much. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I'm going to speak out of both sides of my mouth here so get ready
I pay my bills with job shop work. Customers are companies that use lots of machined parts but don't do it because that is not their core competency...aerospace, electronics, etc. It's a decent sized shop, not some garage work. But! If the OP is doing a few types of parts it might make business sense if they do enough of them that they need right now (opportunity cost if you will). A head is a head, a turbo impeller is a turbo impeller. They might be different, but not the same type of different as one day doing a 1/4" thick 2" x 2" aluminum part with a couple of holes then a multi-axis hog out of a 150lb block of material. If he hires training from the machine tool dealers applications department and CAM training from the CAM vendor it could make sense. We don't really have the info to make that decision if it makes sense or not. He could hire a shit-hot programmer to program 5 different parts, then keep paying that shit-hot programmer his shit-hot wage to load the same fixtures in the same machine and make the same parts...over and over. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:27:08 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to speak out of both sides of my mouth here so get ready I pay my bills with job shop work. Customers are companies that use lots of machined parts but don't do it because that is not their core competency...aerospace, electronics, etc. It's a decent sized shop, not some garage work. But! If the OP is doing a few types of parts it might make business sense if they do enough of them that they need right now (opportunity cost if you will). A head is a head, a turbo impeller is a turbo impeller. They might be different, but not the same type of different as one day doing a 1/4" thick 2" x 2" aluminum part with a couple of holes then a multi-axis hog out of a 150lb block of material. If he hires training from the machine tool dealers applications department and CAM training from the CAM vendor it could make sense. We don't really have the info to make that decision if it makes sense or not. He could hire a shit-hot programmer to program 5 different parts, then keep paying that shit-hot programmer his shit-hot wage to load the same fixtures in the same machine and make the same parts...over and over. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For what you're doing, I fall in the camp of the "uh..." guys. If you buy the machine, hire a really good machinist. Or contract a really good machinist to come in when you need to. Or hell, contract with a local machine shop to do the work for you. I think you'd come out money ahead, to be honest. Let's go ahead and skip past the training time and expense, and talk about the actual machining. It will take you weeks to do what they'll be able to do in a couple days. They've got the experience to address an issue in 30 seconds (or prevent in the first place) something that would have you banging your head against the wall for the whole day. I understand the attraction to having in-house capability, but I just think it could have a brutal learning curve and waste hundreds of thousands of dollars in time and real money. It sounds like your business is doing well. Continue doing what you (personally you) are doing to make it successful. If you get the machine, get someone who has 10 years of experience setting up and programming to do run it. It will take you too long to become proficient enough, and it will distract you from doing what you've done to make the biz successful. Analogy time: If you wanted to buy a Cessna 172, I'd say "Sweet! Take some lessons, you'll be soloing within a year." If you wanted to buy a Gulfstream jet, I'd say "Sweet! Hire a pilot." Just my two cents. I'm a couple years into the field, and I'm still trying to drink from a firehose. There is SO much to learn. So, so much. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I'm going to speak out of both sides of my mouth here so get ready I pay my bills with job shop work. Customers are companies that use lots of machined parts but don't do it because that is not their core competency...aerospace, electronics, etc. It's a decent sized shop, not some garage work. But! If the OP is doing a few types of parts it might make business sense if they do enough of them that they need right now (opportunity cost if you will). A head is a head, a turbo impeller is a turbo impeller. They might be different, but not the same type of different as one day doing a 1/4" thick 2" x 2" aluminum part with a couple of holes then a multi-axis hog out of a 150lb block of material. If he hires training from the machine tool dealers applications department and CAM training from the CAM vendor it could make sense. We don't really have the info to make that decision if it makes sense or not. He could hire a shit-hot programmer to program 5 different parts, then keep paying that shit-hot programmer his shit-hot wage to load the same fixtures in the same machine and make the same parts...over and over. But this is true R&D, he want to do shit that nobody is doing. That's the market. That takes a full time, smart, experienced machinist that understands tooling, fixturing, harmonics, coatings, chip breakers, and enough metallurgy to keep from doing bad things. The OP is capable of learning all these things, but it takes time, expensive time. Not trying to discourage, just manage the timeline.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:33:36 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to speak out of both sides of my mouth here so get ready I pay my bills with job shop work. Customers are companies that use lots of machined parts but don't do it because that is not their core competency...aerospace, electronics, etc. It's a decent sized shop, not some garage work. But! If the OP is doing a few types of parts it might make business sense if they do enough of them that they need right now (opportunity cost if you will). A head is a head, a turbo impeller is a turbo impeller. They might be different, but not the same type of different as one day doing a 1/4" thick 2" x 2" aluminum part with a couple of holes then a multi-axis hog out of a 150lb block of material. If he hires training from the machine tool dealers applications department and CAM training from the CAM vendor it could make sense. We don't really have the info to make that decision if it makes sense or not. He could hire a shit-hot programmer to program 5 different parts, then keep paying that shit-hot programmer his shit-hot wage to load the same fixtures in the same machine and make the same parts...over and over. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For what you're doing, I fall in the camp of the "uh..." guys. If you buy the machine, hire a really good machinist. Or contract a really good machinist to come in when you need to. Or hell, contract with a local machine shop to do the work for you. I think you'd come out money ahead, to be honest. Let's go ahead and skip past the training time and expense, and talk about the actual machining. It will take you weeks to do what they'll be able to do in a couple days. They've got the experience to address an issue in 30 seconds (or prevent in the first place) something that would have you banging your head against the wall for the whole day. I understand the attraction to having in-house capability, but I just think it could have a brutal learning curve and waste hundreds of thousands of dollars in time and real money. It sounds like your business is doing well. Continue doing what you (personally you) are doing to make it successful. If you get the machine, get someone who has 10 years of experience setting up and programming to do run it. It will take you too long to become proficient enough, and it will distract you from doing what you've done to make the biz successful. Analogy time: If you wanted to buy a Cessna 172, I'd say "Sweet! Take some lessons, you'll be soloing within a year." If you wanted to buy a Gulfstream jet, I'd say "Sweet! Hire a pilot." Just my two cents. I'm a couple years into the field, and I'm still trying to drink from a firehose. There is SO much to learn. So, so much. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I'm going to speak out of both sides of my mouth here so get ready I pay my bills with job shop work. Customers are companies that use lots of machined parts but don't do it because that is not their core competency...aerospace, electronics, etc. It's a decent sized shop, not some garage work. But! If the OP is doing a few types of parts it might make business sense if they do enough of them that they need right now (opportunity cost if you will). A head is a head, a turbo impeller is a turbo impeller. They might be different, but not the same type of different as one day doing a 1/4" thick 2" x 2" aluminum part with a couple of holes then a multi-axis hog out of a 150lb block of material. If he hires training from the machine tool dealers applications department and CAM training from the CAM vendor it could make sense. We don't really have the info to make that decision if it makes sense or not. He could hire a shit-hot programmer to program 5 different parts, then keep paying that shit-hot programmer his shit-hot wage to load the same fixtures in the same machine and make the same parts...over and over. Opportunity cost is what fucking kills me right now, when things take forever. By the time we implement a cutting edge idea, then wait forever to put it to use (through testing and advertising, or an attempt at production) many times the moment has passed by and someone else has either thought of the same idea and beat us to the punch, or ripped it off and beat us to the punch likewise. Performance and truck parts change and adapt too quickly to not be on top of the market. Our market is the absolute polar opposite of everything that composes the gun industry. This is why my current business model relies so heavily on the electronics side of things (programming and programming devices) and very little hardware. Programming is much more exclusive than hard parts in our niche- less competition, more difficult to do and less understood, from a technical perspective. With a machine sitting here to cut time down even just for prototypes, it would make us market-effective in a lucrative sales area that I'm damn nearly totally ignoring right now. I could make limited small quantity parts runs on production versions of an item and farm the main run out to someone else with heavier equipment, since we wouldn't have pissed away weeks, months, or occasionally year(s) on just getting something ready. ETA- per the last reply, if a well-trained employee makes things faster, then it would be hugely beneficial for me to visit that idea. And no doubt it would. However, I still want to learn myself as time allows. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:37:48 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it's a one time deal, you get things programmed up, fixtured, gauged, and optimized and then it's production....I say contract the setup and then mash buttons until the end of time. But this is true R&D, he want to do shit that nobody is doing. That's the market. That takes a full time, smart, experienced machinist that understands tooling, fixturing, harmonics, coatings, chip breakers, and enough metallurgy to keep from doing bad things. The OP is capable of learning all these things, but it takes time, expensive time. Not trying to discourage, just manage the timeline. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For what you're doing, I fall in the camp of the "uh..." guys. If you buy the machine, hire a really good machinist. Or contract a really good machinist to come in when you need to. Or hell, contract with a local machine shop to do the work for you. I think you'd come out money ahead, to be honest. Let's go ahead and skip past the training time and expense, and talk about the actual machining. It will take you weeks to do what they'll be able to do in a couple days. They've got the experience to address an issue in 30 seconds (or prevent in the first place) something that would have you banging your head against the wall for the whole day. I understand the attraction to having in-house capability, but I just think it could have a brutal learning curve and waste hundreds of thousands of dollars in time and real money. It sounds like your business is doing well. Continue doing what you (personally you) are doing to make it successful. If you get the machine, get someone who has 10 years of experience setting up and programming to do run it. It will take you too long to become proficient enough, and it will distract you from doing what you've done to make the biz successful. Analogy time: If you wanted to buy a Cessna 172, I'd say "Sweet! Take some lessons, you'll be soloing within a year." If you wanted to buy a Gulfstream jet, I'd say "Sweet! Hire a pilot." Just my two cents. I'm a couple years into the field, and I'm still trying to drink from a firehose. There is SO much to learn. So, so much. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I'm going to speak out of both sides of my mouth here so get ready
I pay my bills with job shop work. Customers are companies that use lots of machined parts but don't do it because that is not their core competency...aerospace, electronics, etc. It's a decent sized shop, not some garage work. But! If the OP is doing a few types of parts it might make business sense if they do enough of them that they need right now (opportunity cost if you will). A head is a head, a turbo impeller is a turbo impeller. They might be different, but not the same type of different as one day doing a 1/4" thick 2" x 2" aluminum part with a couple of holes then a multi-axis hog out of a 150lb block of material. If he hires training from the machine tool dealers applications department and CAM training from the CAM vendor it could make sense. We don't really have the info to make that decision if it makes sense or not. He could hire a shit-hot programmer to program 5 different parts, then keep paying that shit-hot programmer his shit-hot wage to load the same fixtures in the same machine and make the same parts...over and over. But this is true R&D, he want to do shit that nobody is doing. That's the market. That takes a full time, smart, experienced machinist that understands tooling, fixturing, harmonics, coatings, chip breakers, and enough metallurgy to keep from doing bad things. The OP is capable of learning all these things, but it takes time, expensive time. Not trying to discourage, just manage the timeline. I understand what you mean, but I didn't read it as true R&D across the board. It's a diesel shop if my assumptions are correct. Port a head, try it...port another one....try it. Make a turbo impeller, try it....make a different one. I didn't understand his scenario as prototyping a vacuum test fixture, then a landing gear component, then a mining drill bit, then a bicycle part, then a 17" gun drilled hole in Comp 3, etc. . |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:54:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Opportunity cost is what fucking kills me right now, when things take forever. By the time we implement a cutting edge idea, then wait forever to put it to use (through testing and advertising, or an attempt at production) many times the moment has passed by and someone else has either thought of the same idea and beat us to the punch, or ripped it off and beat us to the punch likewise. Performance and truck parts change and adapt too quickly to not be on top of the market. Our market is the absolute polar opposite of everything that composes the gun industry. This is why my current business model relies so heavily on the electronics side of things (programming and programming devices) and very little hardware. Programming is much more exclusive than hard parts in our niche- less competition, more difficult to do and less understood, from a technical perspective. With a machine sitting here to cut time down even just for prototypes, it would make us market-effective in a lucrative sales area that I'm damn nearly totally ignoring right now. I could make limited small quantity parts runs on production versions of an item and farm the main run out to someone else with heavier equipment, since we wouldn't have pissed away weeks, months, or occasionally year(s) on just getting something ready. ETA- per the last reply, if a well-trained employee makes things faster, then it would be hugely beneficial for me to visit that idea. And no doubt it would. However, I still want to learn myself as time allows. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For what you're doing, I fall in the camp of the "uh..." guys. If you buy the machine, hire a really good machinist. Or contract a really good machinist to come in when you need to. Or hell, contract with a local machine shop to do the work for you. I think you'd come out money ahead, to be honest. Let's go ahead and skip past the training time and expense, and talk about the actual machining. It will take you weeks to do what they'll be able to do in a couple days. They've got the experience to address an issue in 30 seconds (or prevent in the first place) something that would have you banging your head against the wall for the whole day. I understand the attraction to having in-house capability, but I just think it could have a brutal learning curve and waste hundreds of thousands of dollars in time and real money. It sounds like your business is doing well. Continue doing what you (personally you) are doing to make it successful. If you get the machine, get someone who has 10 years of experience setting up and programming to do run it. It will take you too long to become proficient enough, and it will distract you from doing what you've done to make the biz successful. Analogy time: If you wanted to buy a Cessna 172, I'd say "Sweet! Take some lessons, you'll be soloing within a year." If you wanted to buy a Gulfstream jet, I'd say "Sweet! Hire a pilot." Just my two cents. I'm a couple years into the field, and I'm still trying to drink from a firehose. There is SO much to learn. So, so much. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I'm going to speak out of both sides of my mouth here so get ready
I pay my bills with job shop work. Customers are companies that use lots of machined parts but don't do it because that is not their core competency...aerospace, electronics, etc. It's a decent sized shop, not some garage work. But! If the OP is doing a few types of parts it might make business sense if they do enough of them that they need right now (opportunity cost if you will). A head is a head, a turbo impeller is a turbo impeller. They might be different, but not the same type of different as one day doing a 1/4" thick 2" x 2" aluminum part with a couple of holes then a multi-axis hog out of a 150lb block of material. If he hires training from the machine tool dealers applications department and CAM training from the CAM vendor it could make sense. We don't really have the info to make that decision if it makes sense or not. He could hire a shit-hot programmer to program 5 different parts, then keep paying that shit-hot programmer his shit-hot wage to load the same fixtures in the same machine and make the same parts...over and over. Opportunity cost is what fucking kills me right now, when things take forever. By the time we implement a cutting edge idea, then wait forever to put it to use (through testing and advertising, or an attempt at production) many times the moment has passed by and someone else has either thought of the same idea and beat us to the punch, or ripped it off and beat us to the punch likewise. Performance and truck parts change and adapt too quickly to not be on top of the market. Our market is the absolute polar opposite of everything that composes the gun industry. This is why my current business model relies so heavily on the electronics side of things (programming and programming devices) and very little hardware. Programming is much more exclusive than hard parts in our niche- less competition, more difficult to do and less understood, from a technical perspective. With a machine sitting here to cut time down even just for prototypes, it would make us market-effective in a lucrative sales area that I'm damn nearly totally ignoring right now. I could make limited small quantity parts runs on production versions of an item and farm the main run out to someone else with heavier equipment, since we wouldn't have pissed away weeks, months, or occasionally year(s) on just getting something ready. ETA- per the last reply, if a well-trained employee makes things faster, then it would be hugely beneficial for me to visit that idea. And no doubt it would. However, I still want to learn myself as time allows. Sounds like you do some similar things that my friends at CPE do. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:55:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryI understand what you mean, but I didn't read it as true R&D across the board. It's a diesel shop if my assumptions are correct. Port a head, try it...port another one....try it. Make a turbo impeller, try it....make a different one. I didn't understand his scenario as prototyping a vacuum test fixture, then a landing gear component, then a mining drill bit, then a bicycle part, then a 17" gun drilled hole in Comp 3, etc. . Not to speak for the OP but it's not a diesel shop in the sense of a diesel repair shop, it's closer to a high tech race engine shop...or that's what it needs to be to lead the hard parts market in the Diesel world. As I've said I'm a duramax guy but I assume the ford world has as many brilliant sob's out there thinking and working and designing better parts all the time. It's really pretty amazing the tech in a new diesel and the guys out there making them better. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:12:22 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are correct the work won't be that varied but it's not serial producton either. Aluminum, compressed graphite iron, 4340, hardened M4 , inconel, titanium and super ausentitic stainless are all very common materials in aftermarket diesel engines. Some of that stuff is kinda fussy. Inconel, Titanium and super stainless are all various degrees crappy, especially without the right knowledge. Not to speak for the OP but it's not a diesel shop in the sense of a diesel repair shop, it's closer to a high tech race engine shop...or that's what it needs to be to lead the hard parts market in the Diesel world. As I've said I'm a duramax guy but I assume the ford world has as many brilliant sob's out there thinking and working and designing better parts all the time. It's really pretty amazing the tech in a new diesel and the guys out there making them better. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand what you mean, but I didn't read it as true R&D across the board. It's a diesel shop if my assumptions are correct. Port a head, try it...port another one....try it. Make a turbo impeller, try it....make a different one. I didn't understand his scenario as prototyping a vacuum test fixture, then a landing gear component, then a mining drill bit, then a bicycle part, then a 17" gun drilled hole in Comp 3, etc. . Not to speak for the OP but it's not a diesel shop in the sense of a diesel repair shop, it's closer to a high tech race engine shop...or that's what it needs to be to lead the hard parts market in the Diesel world. As I've said I'm a duramax guy but I assume the ford world has as many brilliant sob's out there thinking and working and designing better parts all the time. It's really pretty amazing the tech in a new diesel and the guys out there making them better. I'm a Duramax guy too. I just have a little super street truck I run for fun It's not the fastest out there, but it's something to do. And I haven't built a single part on it because others can do it cheaper
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:15:17 AM EDT
[#20]
I constantly debate myself on buying better machinery. The question I always make myself answer: Am I going to make money from this thing or should I stick with what I have and send out the complicated stuff to a shop with the cool tools? So far, the answer is always the latter, though I'm getting close to being able to make money from a proper NC setup.
I am a machine designer/builder and a hack machinist. To make it work, I'd need a man skilled in NC to make it worthwhile too, so the cost would really add up in reality. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:19:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a Duramax guy too. I just have a little super street truck I run for fun It's not the fastest out there, but it's something to do. And I haven't built a single part on it because others can do it cheaper Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I understand what you mean, but I didn't read it as true R&D across the board. It's a diesel shop if my assumptions are correct. Port a head, try it...port another one....try it. Make a turbo impeller, try it....make a different one. I didn't understand his scenario as prototyping a vacuum test fixture, then a landing gear component, then a mining drill bit, then a bicycle part, then a 17" gun drilled hole in Comp 3, etc. . Not to speak for the OP but it's not a diesel shop in the sense of a diesel repair shop, it's closer to a high tech race engine shop...or that's what it needs to be to lead the hard parts market in the Diesel world. As I've said I'm a duramax guy but I assume the ford world has as many brilliant sob's out there thinking and working and designing better parts all the time. It's really pretty amazing the tech in a new diesel and the guys out there making them better. I'm a Duramax guy too. I just have a little super street truck I run for fun It's not the fastest out there, but it's something to do. And I haven't built a single part on it because others can do it cheaper |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:29:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are correct the work won't be that varied but it's not serial producton either. Aluminum, compressed graphite iron, 4340, hardened M4 , inconel, titanium and super ausentitic stainless are all very common materials in aftermarket diesel engines. Some of that stuff is kinda fussy. Inconel, Titanium and super stainless are all various degrees crappy, especially without the right knowledge. Quote HistoryQuoted: I understand what you mean, but I didn't read it as true R&D across the board. It's a diesel shop if my assumptions are correct. Port a head, try it...port another one....try it. Make a turbo impeller, try it....make a different one. I didn't understand his scenario as prototyping a vacuum test fixture, then a landing gear component, then a mining drill bit, then a bicycle part, then a 17" gun drilled hole in Comp 3, etc. . Not to speak for the OP but it's not a diesel shop in the sense of a diesel repair shop, it's closer to a high tech race engine shop...or that's what it needs to be to lead the hard parts market in the Diesel world. As I've said I'm a duramax guy but I assume the ford world has as many brilliant sob's out there thinking and working and designing better parts all the time. It's really pretty amazing the tech in a new diesel and the guys out there making them better. We are opening a repair shop due to customer demand that's mostly unrelated to the performance end of things; this is the primary motivator toward our move into a larger building. I will have TONS of space in the new facility, for more than just repair work. I currently don't pursue anything past internal testing with hardware for our own race vehicles, because our development and turnaround time on hard parts just isn't competitive. Hard to be innovative when several others beat you to market with a similar or identical product, even if you were the first to start developing the idea. Hence the driving force behind our need for in-house equipment. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:08:50 PM EDT
[#23]
After some perusing of the Internet, it seems like LaRue Tactical has a whole damn building stuffed full of Haas machines.
Paging Mark LaRue to the white courtesy phone, please.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:11:09 PM EDT
[#24]
He has a bunch of Okumas as well. He'll tell you basically what I did about HAAS. Value machine, good service, work within the machines capabilities and you'll be fine. They're excellent value.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:25:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After some perusing of the Internet, it seems like LaRue Tactical has a whole damn building stuffed full of Haas machines. Paging Mark LaRue to the white courtesy phone, please. Yes he does, and he also has the experienced people to drive them. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:26:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He has a bunch of Okumas as well. He'll tell you basically what I did about HAAS. Value machine, good service, work within the machines capabilities and you'll be fine. They're excellent value. This is probably the route I'll pursue for now. Thanks for the help.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:34:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Yep, nothing wrong with HAAS for the type of work you want to do. Won't last as long, be as productive or have the most advanced feature set but the control is nice, the service is excellent and if you wad one badly you aren't out 300K.
Track down Seekins as well, he's around here somewhere and I see him on machining forums as well. He has a shop full of equipment making his own product and is a user of HSMworks also. Check out the Nexgen Cam site that was linked above...on that page there is a video of the Haas machine you are talking about running HSMworks code on a 5ax part. If you are familiar with SW you really need to check out HSMworks. OP If you ever have any questions about machines, CAM or tooling feel free to shoot me a PM. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 7:07:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Forget hsm works for simultaneous 5 axis, it doesn't do it,
If you want to seriously do impellers, porting and that kind of work then speak to openmind USA about hypermill, There is a reason why so many formula one, and high performance vehicle manufactures use it 
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Posted: 10/3/2014 10:43:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Forget hsm works for simultaneous 5 axis, it doesn't do it, If you want to seriously do impellers, porting and that kind of work then speak to openmind USA about hypermill, There is a reason why so many formula one, and high performance vehicle manufactures use it I know DelCAM was also just purchased by Autodesk - I am not sure they will meld any of the features or not- they're still treated like a separate company.... I am looking at their Robotic CAM package at the moment. Here's a video of a 5-axis machine running from their s/w: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqHYfAOixxI#t=69 |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 3:58:18 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 10/4/2014 5:55:15 AM EDT
[#31]
We have 14 HAAS mills (mostly VF series 1, 2 , 3 and 5 all 3 axis machines with bolt on 4th axis) and 2 KIA mills, we all love the HAAS for the simplicity and great service we get from Jeffrey's. (oldest is 21 yrs old, she has been beat hard and the SVG monitor sits on a table with a 6 ft cord running to it)
Stay away from KIA mills (my opinion quality is not there) the lathes are okay we have 9 or 10 of them (oldest is over 20 years and still runs production) Jumping into a 5 axis machine...with no personal experience  trying to be nice....that's just plain stupid, do you realize how much it costs for a tech to come visit? a basic 2 day visit will start at $2500 easy
just learning to profile on a 3 axis machine running a 4th axis and a 90* head will make you go
The type of "friend" you know that is good at programing a 5 axis machine...is a $50 an hr. person here good luck in your endeavor, I don't know how much money is in R&D in cylinder heads...I just know you will need a ton of cash Were in NC op? we have used Master cam since 8 was high speed  , latest version with all the bells and whistles is the price of a new Toyota corolla
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Posted: 10/4/2014 5:58:26 AM EDT
[#32]
check out cnczone and practicalmachinist both forums for more answers
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