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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:11:32 AM EDT
[#1]
357 for fun, especially if you want to reload.
30-30 for killing. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:14:20 AM EDT
[#2]
Both
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:17:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Yeah? Are the 30-30 self defense rounds as cheap as 357? I don't reload. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:28:55 AM EDT
[#4]
If I was only hunting, I'd say the 30-30 ... but I voted for the 357, kinda hard to beat for ammunition variety.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:31:32 AM EDT
[#5]
that's what I'm thinking. 9+1 rounds of 357 hydrashoks out of a 16" barrel is very very comforting ! |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:33:13 AM EDT
[#6]
I've never heard of any such thing. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:37:18 AM EDT
[#7]
44 Mag.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:37:23 AM EDT
[#8]
I love my thirty-thirty, but I would LOVE to get one in .357 (Marlin 1894cp)
That said, why winchester? I prefer Marlin. Side eject opposed to top eject, beefier receiver and tighter action, no rattling. (my marlin is a vintage '68 and is as tight and smooth as a....well you get the idea) roy d...loves the lever |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:38:58 AM EDT
[#9]
well then I think that made up my mind! now anything wrong with the 357 winchester trapper? http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=094&cat=003C |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:40:06 AM EDT
[#10]
I like the Marlin over the WW also ... |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:42:02 AM EDT
[#11]
the only marlin i could find in 357 is this one:
www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/leverActionCB_rifles/1894Cowboy-Othr_PR.htm its a tad longer than the winchester but it does hold 10+1. I think 9+1 and shorter sounds better for a go anywhere rifle. what's the actual price difference? |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:43:32 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted: 30-30 self defense rounds As far as a so-called sef defense round, I don't know of any, but a good Winchester silver tip I do believe would suffice. Another alternative that you might consider would be a Marlin in 35 Rem. Powerful little load. A great game getter. I am not personally a fan of 357. It is a good round, It's just not my bag of tricks.hinking.gif |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:44:46 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:48:14 AM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:02:13 AM EDT
[#15]
Definately Marlin!
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:04:42 AM EDT
[#16]
just for the side eject or are tehre other reasons? |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:10:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Marlin. And this is coming from a guy who owns a Winchester Model 94 in 30-30. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:10:17 AM EDT
[#18]
i got to go with the .44 Mag. also. much more knock down than either 30-30 or .357. the .44 and 30-30 are both 100 yd guns. 357 maybe to 50 yds. i would look at buying a lee handy press at a set of dies, some spray on case lube, a sheet of primers, a box of bullets and a pound of powder. total will be about $75.00. it's a great investment and a lot of fun. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:14:29 AM EDT
[#19]
I have the Marlin 1894C (.357) and love it. When I bought it, I looked at both it and the Winchester; the Marlin won hands down.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:25:50 AM EDT
[#20]
Why did the Marlin win out? |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:36:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Side eject, nicer quality wood, better overall workmanship, better reviews. I purchased about 5 years ago, so that's all I can remember off the top of my head. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:38:14 AM EDT
[#22]
I've always considered the Marlin much more robust and solid ... just a better designed weapon. They are surprisingly accurate for what they are also. A friend had one in 444 that would consistently shoot sub MOA at 100 yards. (300gr. XTP over 55gr of H335 if I remember correctly, check it before you use it though!) I couldn't believe how accurate that thing was.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:38:27 AM EDT
[#23]
For hunting, the .30-30, or better yet - the .35Rem - for plinking or social purposes, .357mag or .44mag...
"the .44 and 30-30 are both 100 yd guns." I disagree with that a bit - the .30-30 DEFINETLY has more deer killing range than 100 yards -ATLEAST 150 to 200 yards, IMO and experience... Also, I believe Marlin is making a better lever gun these days than Winchester... - georgestrings |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:42:18 AM EDT
[#24]
336 in .35remington.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:49:14 AM EDT
[#25]
The .30-30 is FAR more powerful than a .357 will ever be. .357 if you want a plinker/SASS gun. .30-30 if you intend it to be a more serious weapon. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:55:18 AM EDT
[#26]
.44 magnum ballistics from Federal: Federal Load No. Factory Primer No. Caliber Bullet Weight Grains / Grams Bullet style Use T.B* P44HS1 150 44 Rem. Magnum 240 / 15.55 Hydra-Shok JHP 9 6.5-V Velocity in Feet Per Second Muzzle 25 50 75 100 1180 1131 1085 1046 1012 Energy in Foot Pounds Muzzle 25 50 75 100 742 681 627 583 546 Wind Drift in Inches 10 MPH Crosswind 25 50 75 100 0.5 1.2 2.4 4.1 Average Range 25 50 75 100 -0.8 -3.4 -8.1 .30-30 ballistics from Federal: Federal Load No. Factory Primer No. Caliber Bullet Weight Grains / Grams Bullet style Use T.B* 3030B 210 30-30 Win. 170 / 11.02 Soft Point FN 2 24 Velocity in Feet Per Second Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 2200 1894 1619 1380 1191 1060 Energy in Foot Pounds Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 1827 1354 990 719 535 424 Wind Drift in Inches 10 MPH Crosswind 100 200 300 400 500 1.8 8.1 19.4 36.7 59.9 Average Range 50 100 200 300 400 500 0.3 -8.4 -30.0 -70.3 -135.4 Long Range 50 100 200 300 400 500 2.4 4.2 -17.4 -53.5 -114.4 Now perhaps you would like to re-examine your hypothesis about the .44 magnum having more "knock-down" than the .30-30. The .30-30 is a RIFLE cartridge, and a darn good one. At 400 yards it has more muzzle energy than a .44 magnum AT the muzzle. It is a hell of a lot more than a 100 yard cartridge. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:55:50 AM EDT
[#27]
I had a lever action 357 and could never quite figure out what it was good for. Handgun cartridges belong in handguns. Otherwise, what's the point?
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:55:55 AM EDT
[#28]
You've never heard of such a thing because every 30/30 load is a manstopper! The 30/30 is far superior to a .357 in stopping ability. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:57:35 AM EDT
[#29]
The .30-30 is a seriously underrated cartridge. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 6:58:08 AM EDT
[#30]
If you got the 30-30 and got into handloading .... it wouldnt matter about ammo cost. The 30-30 has tons of bullets available for it .... the little 100gr HP is a nice bullet for plinking and short range varminting. ...
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:01:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Indeed. The .30-30 is a RIFLE cartridge, sufficiently powerful to bring down everything from Elk to angry bear. It has been killing big game in America for many many many many years. It is less powerful than the .30-06, but it is still FAR MORE POWERFUL than ANY handgun round, PERIOD. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:02:08 AM EDT
[#32]
Remember the North Hollywood bank robbery? Those guys took a shit load of pistol rounds without much effect. All it would have taken to stop those guys leaving the bank parking lot would have been someone with a 30/30 and the where-with-all to use it.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:02:23 AM EDT
[#33]
Indeed, the .30-30 uses a (suprise!) 30 caliber bullet, meaning that you can find about any bullet weight you want. The lever action rifles, however, have rifling optimized to bullet weights popular for deer hunting. (150gr, 170gr...) |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:03:43 AM EDT
[#34]
Really, JW. I mean, c'mon guys, just take a look at the cartridges. Case capacity alone tells you the rifle cartridge has got to be the more powerful cartridge; by a LOT! |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:05:51 AM EDT
[#35]
Precisely. The lever action .30-30 is a handy little weapon with a pretty nasty bite. It is more powerful than the .223, and a bit less powerful than the .308. It is nothing to screw around with. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:39:52 AM EDT
[#36]
BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED!
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:40:01 AM EDT
[#37]
The 30-30 is a rifle cartridge, the .357 is not. Period.
SD cartridges for 30-30 are Federals 125gr Hi Shok JHP, PMC 150gr Starfire JHP, 150gr. Winchester SilverTip PSP, etc. Damn near every thutty thutty load is a SD load. For plinking, get some of those bitchin 30-30 Accellarators. I think its a saboted 55gr. 223Rem load in a 30-30 casing, but I cant remember so I cant be sure. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:46:52 AM EDT
[#38]
If you are buying a Winchester, the .357 will have the same size receiver as the .30/30. If you are going to carry a full sized rifle receiver, put a full sized rifle round in it.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:48:19 AM EDT
[#39]
Yea… If you want to defend yourself a good rifle cartridge is almost always better. Second if you have to have a pistol caliber rifle why .357 instead of 44 mag and 45 LC. 357 is possible the WORST of all choices in a centerfire lever action rifle. Why pick the LEAST effective round… cause you get 1 more shot. Don’t make sense. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:51:35 AM EDT
[#40]
It sure will... they'll open up very fast leading to shallow penetration and possible bullet failure. .357 mag at carbine speeds needs soft point bullets. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:52:36 AM EDT
[#41]
Exactly. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 7:55:07 AM EDT
[#42]
The only real reason I see for them is if you are into SASS, or if you just enjoy them as a plinker. The short throw on those pistol caliber carbines makes them quick and fun to shoot, but they aren't practical for anything. As to brand, I prefer the Marlin. Marlins are usually very accurate, and they have fewer moving parts than a Winchester. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:01:11 AM EDT
[#43]
+1 Load up with 300Gn XTP's. I have no use for the anemic 180 & 240 Gn .44mag loads. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:04:16 AM EDT
[#44]
The Marlin pistol grip stock shape is better for me than the marlin or win straight stock. the marlins also have a smoother action and better recoilpad/butt plate. all of which means its easier to keep the marlin in your shoulder pocket with the sights on target as you cycle the action. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:06:08 AM EDT
[#45]
+1 Who wants to fight with a lever action? cowboys? |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:07:18 AM EDT
[#46]
 |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:08:10 AM EDT
[#47]
John Wayne,
Muzzle energy and velocity are meaningless when it comes to wound ballistics. all that matters is crush cavity, depth of penetration, recovered diameter, and to a lessor extent temporary cavity. The 300Gn 44 Mag XTP will penetrate 20"+ and expand to .67 Every levergun shooter should read this thread: www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000123#000000 Levergun ammo tested in a scientifically valid method. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:10:19 AM EDT
[#48]
I have a Winchester trapper in 44. Marlins are nice too. I like the Winchester better because it is slimmer and lighter - I wanted a handy little carbine and the Winchester fit the bill better. One other advantage of the Winchester is that, because it is designed around rifle cartridges (unlike the Marlin), you can load bullets to the second cannelure with 300 gain bullets, allowing you to use the full power pistol loadings out of the reloading manuals. It is really a lot of gun for somthing smaller and lighter than an M4.
As others have said, the 44 in a rifle is quite a cartridge. It has nearly as much energy at the muzzle as a 30/30, and IMHO is a better killer. My 300 grain handloads inspire great confidence, and it shoots pretty flat. I can get about 125+ yards, and the bullet is never more than 2" above the LOS. If you were big game hunting, you could get more range. I have a 1-3x20 Weaver scope mounted. The trigger is suprisingly light, 5 pounds IIRC, and the little carbine really shoots - it does 2 MOA with my handloads. It carries 9 rounds in the mag. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:12:59 AM EDT
[#49]
Interesting discussion and alot of false info being slung around. Apparently there is a lack of hunting and reloading knowledge amongst our avid shooters on this board.
The .30-30 is an excellent medium sized deer cartridge, that cannot be denied. The .44 mag however, is routinely used to hunt large deer and bears from a revolver platform. From a rifle, the .44 mag is significantly more gun. The same can be said about the .357 mag from a rifle. It does have a much smaller case than the .30-30, but it is a much newer cartridge and has higher pressures. From a short revolver barrel either round does a poor job of burning that slow magnum powder. From an 18"-20" barrel, velocities are surprising to say the least. Notice how close the .357 mag velocities are to the .30-30. In real world terminal performance they aren't too far apart. Here are some velocities from Speer reloading manual no. 13. .357 mag- 125 grain JHP 2125 FPS 140 grain JHP 1934 FPS 158 grain JSP 1738 FPS .44 mag- 200 grain JHP 2116 FPS 240 grain JSP 1788 FPS 270 grain JSP 1573 FPS 300 grain JSP 1503 FPS Using some of the "nuclear" loadings around from Buffalo Bore and the like will increase velocities even more. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:24:23 AM EDT
[#50]
Yep. Look at the .305Gn factory ammo from the big 3 for the .45-70. You can push the .300Gn 44mag bullets nearly as fast from a lever gun. Do you think a bear knows the difference between a 300Gn .429" bullet and a 305Gn .451" bullet at simular velocities? |
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