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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:04:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is the blade on your utility knife in backwards? no but you better check yours.  
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:05:55 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm not sure that I've ever seen #1 Buck for sale anywhere.
But cool post O_P, interesting and informative as always. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:07:27 PM EDT
[#3]
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O_P delivers with nothing but the facts once again! Thanks! I love O_P's style. Everyone is spouting off from the manuals and books. He says, "Well, lemme cut one open and weigh those suckers." Empirical data FTW! +1 If I didn't already know he was once a lawman, I would have assumed he was an engineer from back in the day before computers and scientific calculators. I keep expecting for him to whip out a slide rule. Yep. Sort of like Jack Ridley, the project egineer of the X-1. He had a way of explaining things so that anyone could understand. Thanks, O.P. 
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:09:55 PM EDT
[#4]
As always O_P.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:11:41 PM EDT
[#5]
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Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment WOODEN SHOES, and buy one. http://bible.cc/luke/22-36.htm I can't believe you beat me to that one.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:13:17 PM EDT
[#6]
I wonder if Remington still offers that nickel plated #1 buckshot load. That was a great performer.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:19:52 PM EDT
[#7]
I am such a fan of Old Painless that I had dedicated my tag line to him.
O_P, you are super cool! |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:20:48 PM EDT
[#8]
I read in a gun mag a while a go that one of the reasons that buckshot was effective was "multiple shock trauma" or getting hit with a bunch of projectiles at the same time. If IIRC they said it caused the CNS to overload.
Anybody ever hear of this? Is there any truth to it? |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:22:05 PM EDT
[#9]
I almost passed this thread, then saw it was by OP.
Good thread, as always
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:22:12 PM EDT
[#10]
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I read in a gun mag a while a go that one of the reasons that buckshot was effective was "multiple shock trauma" or getting hit with a bunch of projectiles at the same time. If IIRC they said it caused the CNS to overload. Anybody ever hear of this? Is there any truth to it? MBA schools stole the word "synergy" from gunnies talking about Skorpions n buckshot. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:23:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I wonder if Remington still offers that nickel plated #1 buckshot load. That was a great performer. Their catalog lists a "12B1" load of #1 buckshot, but doesn't say anything about it being plated. And, being in their catalog isn't the same thing as being on the dealer's shelves.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:24:53 PM EDT
[#12]
For years, everyone has talked about how great #1 is but then everyone just buys 00 anyway, mainly cause it's there.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:30:36 PM EDT
[#13]
hey OP arent .22 lr projectiles like 36 grains? they are pretty common.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:32:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wonder if Remington still offers that nickel plated #1 buckshot load. That was a great performer. Their catalog lists a "12B1" load of #1 buckshot, but doesn't say anything about it being plated. And, being in their catalog isn't the same thing as being on the dealer's shelves.
I know what you mean. 
It was one of the loadings in the Premiere line. I think it was only available in 3" though. Nickel plated and buffered, with a shot cup. It patterned very well in anything I tried it in. Edited to add: I don't see it in the catalog or on their site. It must have been dropped. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:33:59 PM EDT
[#15]
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Thanks!!
I really need a shotgun.  You know when he says "birdshot" he doesn't mean...ummmm...nevermind 
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:34:25 PM EDT
[#16]
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hey OP arent .22 lr projectiles like 36 grains? they are pretty common. Yep, but that is only slightly over half of the 60 grain weight of the 00 buck.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:36:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I read in a gun mag a while a go that one of the reasons that buckshot was effective was "multiple shock trauma" or getting hit with a bunch of projectiles at the same time. If IIRC they said it caused the CNS to overload. Anybody ever hear of this? Is there any truth to it? I've never heard of "CNS overload" before. You might want to do some research in the Ammunition Forum, especially in the tacked threads where terminal ballistics is discussed in detail. Terminal ballistics doesn't work like many people mistakenly think it does.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:47:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Oddly enough, I just shot buckshot for the first time today. It was some Lake City "military" stuff, or so the gun store claims.
I was happy to see a thread that had some additional knowledge in it. 
- BG |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 1:55:18 PM EDT
[#19]
You're simply amazing, O_P.
GREAT article. HH |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 2:14:08 PM EDT
[#20]
ok but what about 00buckshot versus slugs for defense? Right now I keep reduced recoil hollow point 1oz slugs for home defense
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Posted: 6/14/2009 2:21:41 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I really need a shotgun. Holy smoke! Don't tell me that you don't own a shotgun. Sell those wooden shoes and buy you one, for goodness sakes.  I'm afraid it's true. It's one of those things that I keep INTENDING to get, but somehow never get around to. Although in my defense, at least I do own a lever rifle. Don't worry I didn't own one till a couple of years ago either. But if you're gonna get one get something awesome like a Benelli! Quoted: ok but what about 00buckshot versus slugs for defense? Right now I keep reduced recoil hollow point 1oz slugs for home defense Most would say buckshot and I'd be inclined to agree but don't have any testing that proves this is the best type of load for HD.  |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 2:24:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Excellent post.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 2:28:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Excellant post as always
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Posted: 6/14/2009 2:32:07 PM EDT
[#24]
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2. Buckshot penetrates too much and will go through walls in my home. Sure it will. Any load that will STOP a bad guy, will also penetrate several interior walls, as I proved here: Rifles, Shotguns, and Walls Until someone invents a phaser, like on Star Trek, any load that will STOP a bad guy will also penetrate several walls. My favorite anology to illustrate how ridiculous the "wall penetration" objection is: It's not terribly hard to put your fist through sheetrock. I have yet to see anybody be able to punch *into* the chest cavity of a human being. If even a punch is enough to penetrate drywall, then why do people expect bullets - which have to actually penetrate into bodily cavities to acheive the desired effect - to just bounce off of a sheetrock wall? Tell this to both my brother-in-laws.... 
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Posted: 6/14/2009 2:35:04 PM EDT
[#25]
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Thanks for the writeup O_P. +1. Thank you sir! 
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Posted: 6/14/2009 2:35:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
ok but what about 00buckshot versus slugs for defense? Right now I keep reduced recoil hollow point 1oz slugs for home defense No doubt about it, slugs will "work" in stopping bad guys. However, some may think that you will also have even more problems with over-penetration than with buckshot. Slugs tend to do like the Ever-Ready bunny, and "just keep on going".
See more about slug penetration here: Slug Tests That post starts out talking about 20 gauge shells, but ends with a 12 gauge slug test. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 2:38:41 PM EDT
[#27]
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2. Buckshot penetrates too much and will go through walls in my home. Sure it will. Any load that will STOP a bad guy, will also penetrate several interior walls, as I proved here: Rifles, Shotguns, and Walls Until someone invents a phaser, like on Star Trek, any load that will STOP a bad guy will also penetrate several walls. My favorite anology to illustrate how ridiculous the "wall penetration" objection is: It's not terribly hard to put your fist through sheetrock. I have yet to see anybody be able to punch *into* the chest cavity of a human being. If even a punch is enough to penetrate drywall, then why do people expect bullets - which have to actually penetrate into bodily cavities to acheive the desired effect - to just bounce off of a sheetrock wall? Tell this to both my brother-in-laws....
Many folks are like your brother-in-laws seem to be.......They don't really understand terminal ballistics, but have plenty of "opinions", usually based on faulty data. All we can do is post the truth and hope we get some "converts". Show them this thread. Maybe they will be ready to learn something. "When the student is ready, the Teacher will appear."
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Posted: 6/14/2009 2:44:38 PM EDT
[#28]
 I'm Curly Bill and I approve this message. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 2:44:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Great, informative post as always O_P; but you really don't think those birdshot is best guys are ever really going to give it up do you?
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Posted: 6/14/2009 2:45:34 PM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:
hey OP arent .22 lr projectiles like 36 grains? they are pretty common. Yep, but that is only slightly over half of the 60 grain weight of the 00 buck.
What's a loaded 22LR cartridge weigh? Just put the whole thing in there.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 2:49:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Okay, I laughed out loud.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:10:58 PM EDT
[#32]
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Never even heard of #1 buckshot. Learned something new today. Anyone have this in their ammo box? Actually, I still have some Rem #1 from about 10 years ago in my stash. As well as some 0 buck, etc. Great post O_P. Your service to the shotgun illerati is worthy of praise. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 3:28:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Great, informative post as always O_P; but you really don't think those birdshot is best guys are ever really going to give it up do you? Nope. Do you think that we buckshot guys will give up either? As John Wayne would say, "Not hardly."
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:40:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
hey OP arent .22 lr projectiles like 36 grains? they are pretty common. Yep, but that is only slightly over half of the 60 grain weight of the 00 buck.
What's a loaded 22LR cartridge weigh? Just put the whole thing in there.
That does sound kinda interesting.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 4:49:51 PM EDT
[#35]
My cousin learned the "birdshot is for birds and Buckshot is for People" lesson about 6 years ago. He decided that life wasn't worth living. He took a Rem. 870 in 20ga and turned it on himself. Luckily, he put the muzzle about 6 inches off center of his belly button. It was one horrendous flesh wound. I saw it in the hospital. Man, that is a nasty chunck of flesh that he'll never get back. Anyway, fortunately for him, not a single pellet hit any of his organs. I guess it was a good thing he didn't know shit about firearms.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:06:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Nine, .34 caliber pellets, with a total weight of 535 grains, humming along at ~1300 fps. Kinda puts things into perspective, that's a whole lotta hurt flying through the air.
Good info, O_P. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:08:26 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
My cousin learned the "birdshot is for birds and Buckshot is for People" lesson about 6 years ago. He decided that life wasn't worth living. He took a Rem. 870 in 20ga and turned it on himself. Luckily, he put the muzzle about 6 inches off center of his belly button. It was one horrendous flesh wound. I saw it in the hospital. Man, that is a nasty chunck of flesh that he'll never get back. Anyway, fortunately for him, not a single pellet hit any of his organs. I guess it was a good thing he didn't know shit about firearms. Well, he knows a lot more about them nowadays.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:12:26 PM EDT
[#38]
I'd rather use a 4bore
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:12:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
My cousin learned the "birdshot is for birds and Buckshot is for People" lesson about 6 years ago. He decided that life wasn't worth living. He took a Rem. 870 in 20ga and turned it on himself. Luckily, he put the muzzle about 6 inches off center of his belly button. It was one horrendous flesh wound. I saw it in the hospital. Man, that is a nasty chunck of flesh that he'll never get back. Anyway, fortunately for him, not a single pellet hit any of his organs. I guess it was a good thing he didn't know shit about firearms. Well, he knows a lot more about them nowadays.
Yup, alot more than he did. He's a Felon now so that's about the only hands on lesson he'll be getting. DOH! 
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:14:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Post this in the shotgun section. I'm sure there will be lots of support there to get it tacked!!
http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=1 Thanks O_P!! |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:18:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Thanks again
A home defense shotgun is on the list to get. I will be keeping an eye on the ammo now with better knowledge of what to get. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:20:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I'm not sure that I've ever seen #1 Buck for sale anywhere. . That's cause I got it all.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:20:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Good write up
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:27:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Nine, .34 caliber pellets, with a total weight of 535 grains, humming along at ~1300 fps. Kinda puts things into perspective, that's a whole lotta hurt flying through the air. Good info, O_P. You know, it kinda does.
A big bucket load of pain, that's for sure. |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:34:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Another great write-up.
Having just bought a home defense shotgun last week, this thread was uncannily timely. Thanks much! |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:40:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Nice write up. I would like to see a test done using Hornady's light magnum buckshot. They tout it as coming out at 1800 fps. I wonder how that affects penetration, shot pattern and shot deformation...
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Posted: 6/14/2009 5:43:11 PM EDT
[#47]
Great post...and I feel lucky. My local fun shop had several boxes of #1 buckshot. Remington green box. I shot several and still have 3 or 4 boxes. 00 still patterns best for me and I have a LOT of that!! As well as plenty of slugs. I like shotguns!!!
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Posted: 6/14/2009 6:19:42 PM EDT
[#48]
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Thanks again A home defense shotgun is on the list to get. I will be keeping an eye on the ammo now with better knowledge of what to get. As my friend Clint Smith says, "Not everyone can afford a $700 carbine, but nearly anyone can afford a $150 shotgun."
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Posted: 6/14/2009 6:20:30 PM EDT
[#49]
O_P and I may disagree eight times out of ten anywhere else but it would take a powerful kind of stupid to dispute him and the Box O' Truth.
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Posted: 6/14/2009 6:42:07 PM EDT
[#50]
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hey OP arent .22 lr projectiles like 36 grains? they are pretty common. Yep, but that is only slightly over half of the 60 grain weigh t of the 00 buck. What's a loaded 22LR cartridge weigh? Just put the whole thing in there. That does sound kinda interesting. Of course you'll have to do a comparative test using CB caps, BB caps, shorts and longs. |
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