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Link Posted: 4/14/2016 9:59:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:


You still do not understand what this looks like to the average voter.
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By Top_Secret:
Originally Posted By chupacabras:
Trump would have done what Cruz did in CO if his campaign wasn't such a clusterfuck.


That's what happens when you run off a 100% name recognition campaign.


You still do not understand what this looks like to the average voter.


The only people who give a shit are Trump's followers. The average voter doesn't give a shit because they aren't following the whining @realdonaldtrump.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:00:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Fig:
Trump or Cruz, I'll take either.
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Anyone would agree with this after watching the Democratic debate tonight.  Don't be crazy people, Hillary needs to be stopped!!!!
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:00:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Shqype:
Cruz was ON FIRE tonight on the MSNBC town hall. He had the best responses, he was funny, animated, and likeable. He will make a wonderful lobbyist.
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Fixed it for you....
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:00:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:


You still do not understand what this looks like to the average voter.
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By Top_Secret:
Originally Posted By chupacabras:
Trump would have done what Cruz did in CO if his campaign wasn't such a clusterfuck.


That's what happens when you run off a 100% name recognition campaign.


You still do not understand what this looks like to the average voter.

Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:00:54 PM EDT
The average voter chooses Hillary over Trump.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:01:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/15/2016 10:17:40 AM EDT by BushBoar]

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Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:
You hope a man dies over this, and fuck his whole generation over it?  Dude, lighten up or seek help.
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Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:



Originally Posted By Mr_Smiley:


< Removed. -- BB >






You hope a man dies over this, and fuck his whole generation over it?  Dude, lighten up or seek help.

Millennials
 
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:01:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sturmgeist:
All Trumptards are retards—forever & always.

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Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:02:04 PM EDT
Interesting...attempting to circumvent the participation of the electorate results in a negative response.


Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:03:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By zeekh:


Trump wasn't smart enough to play the delegate game. But he is a deal maker
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Originally Posted By zeekh:
Originally Posted By Sturmgeist:
All Trumptards are retards—forever & always.



Trump wasn't smart enough to play the delegate game. But he is a deal maker


He's beating Cruz.  So what does that say about Cruz?
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:04:53 PM EDT
It wasn't rigged. Trump doesn't understand you must play by the rules. Trump deceives people with his lies. Trump screws the little guy when he files for bankruptcy and he builds his casinos that end up closing down the Mom and Pop business. Trump said he was going to release his tax returns but has not; he lied.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:05:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Veccio:
The rules have been laid out for how long? The campaigns have known for how long what they needed to do?


The Trump campaign, quite simply, failed. What you are seeing now is his ego and narcissism try to cover up the fact that he failed. "It's rigged!" "They made shady deals and changed the rules at the last second!" This is all exhibit A for why I will never vote for that man.
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THE RULES DO NOT MATTER TO THE AVERAGE VOTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most people think that when they vote for a candidate in a state primary and their guy wins that is it. He get the delegates and the delegates will be loyal to him at convention. Then they see people crowing about some candidate pulling more delegates and talking about how they got delegates because the other guy's campaign sucks. The voter hears the opposition just crapped on their vote. Or in CO the Party and their cronies locked them out of the vote and denied them a chance to have a say in the process.

All of this looks like a seen in Cuba or Iran and many voters are angry and the anger is just being stoked by people saying "well it was within the rules you are just too ignorant to understand the rules." It smack of criminals getting off on a technicality. "w
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:07:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:



THE RULES DO NOT MATTER TO THE AVERAGE VOTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most people think that when they vote for a candidate in a state primary and their guy wins that is it. He get the delegates and the delegates will be loyal to him at convention. Then they see people crowing about some candidate pulling more delegates and talking about how they got delegates because the other guy's campaign sucks. The voter hears the opposition just crapped on their vote. Or in CO the Party and their cronies locked them out of the vote and denied them a chance to have a say in the process.

All of this looks like a seen in Cuba or Iran and many voters are angry and the anger is just being stoked by people saying "well it was within the rules you are just too ignorant to understand the rules." It smack of criminals getting off on a technicality. "w
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By Veccio:
The rules have been laid out for how long? The campaigns have known for how long what they needed to do?


The Trump campaign, quite simply, failed. What you are seeing now is his ego and narcissism try to cover up the fact that he failed. "It's rigged!" "They made shady deals and changed the rules at the last second!" This is all exhibit A for why I will never vote for that man.



THE RULES DO NOT MATTER TO THE AVERAGE VOTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most people think that when they vote for a candidate in a state primary and their guy wins that is it. He get the delegates and the delegates will be loyal to him at convention. Then they see people crowing about some candidate pulling more delegates and talking about how they got delegates because the other guy's campaign sucks. The voter hears the opposition just crapped on their vote. Or in CO the Party and their cronies locked them out of the vote and denied them a chance to have a say in the process.

All of this looks like a seen in Cuba or Iran and many voters are angry and the anger is just being stoked by people saying "well it was within the rules you are just too ignorant to understand the rules." It smack of criminals getting off on a technicality. "w

Pretty much.

It reinforces that it doesn't matter what the voters want but rather the party elites can shape reality to whatever they want and claim they followed the rules.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:08:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Lol
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Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
If you are stupid enough to think CO was rigged, Trump is your boy.


You just threw away about a 1/3 or better of the eligible voters in this country who thought their vote actually mattered. Well before the last month or so when the GOPe began telling people what a joke primaries are.
Lol


You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:08:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2016 10:09:23 PM EDT by IAMLEGEND]
It's within the rules to completely disregard the votes of registered Republicans.





It's also within the rules for someone to go Independent





Think hard RNC
 
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:10:36 PM EDT
The corrupt GOOP simply put another nail in their slimy coffin as a result of their CO shenanigans...





Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:11:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:


You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.
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Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:
Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
If you are stupid enough to think CO was rigged, Trump is your boy.


You just threw away about a 1/3 or better of the eligible voters in this country who thought their vote actually mattered. Well before the last month or so when the GOPe began telling people what a joke primaries are.
Lol


You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.

What are you talking about?
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:11:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
It's within the rules to completely disregard the votes of registered Republicans.

It's also within the rules for someone to go Independent

Think hard RNC

 
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We are too ignorant to understand what is good for US, the GOPe and their supporters will be along to tell us how we should vote whether we like it or not....then they will still expect us to show up and vote the way we are told.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:11:45 PM EDT
FPNI
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:12:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:


You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.
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Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:
Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
If you are stupid enough to think CO was rigged, Trump is your boy.


You just threw away about a 1/3 or better of the eligible voters in this country who thought their vote actually mattered. Well before the last month or so when the GOPe began telling people what a joke primaries are.
Lol


You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.


Yeah those 65,000 people that participated in Colorado were totally disenfranchised. Showing up is tough.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:16:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2016 10:17:53 PM EDT by fla556guy]
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Originally Posted By GreenBastard:

Pretty much.

It reinforces that it doesn't matter what the voters want but rather the party elites can shape reality to whatever they want and claim they followed the rules.
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Originally Posted By GreenBastard:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By Veccio:
The rules have been laid out for how long? The campaigns have known for how long what they needed to do?


The Trump campaign, quite simply, failed. What you are seeing now is his ego and narcissism try to cover up the fact that he failed. "It's rigged!" "They made shady deals and changed the rules at the last second!" This is all exhibit A for why I will never vote for that man.



THE RULES DO NOT MATTER TO THE AVERAGE VOTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most people think that when they vote for a candidate in a state primary and their guy wins that is it. He get the delegates and the delegates will be loyal to him at convention. Then they see people crowing about some candidate pulling more delegates and talking about how they got delegates because the other guy's campaign sucks. The voter hears the opposition just crapped on their vote. Or in CO the Party and their cronies locked them out of the vote and denied them a chance to have a say in the process.

All of this looks like a seen in Cuba or Iran and many voters are angry and the anger is just being stoked by people saying "well it was within the rules you are just too ignorant to understand the rules." It smack of criminals getting off on a technicality. "w

Pretty much.

It reinforces that it doesn't matter what the voters want but rather the party elites can shape reality to whatever they want and claim they followed the rules.


This is the problem.  Cruz probably would have won, but people hate the appearance of impropriety.

The one thing trump has done is expose the utter bullshit that goes into politics in this nation.  Everything else about him is....questionable.....but he has pulled the cutains back in a very real way.  The RNC needs to change or die.  Trump or not, I don't care.  What I want is a party that is forced to heed the will of its voters, fear its voters.  

Trump has started the process.  Hate him all you want, but set aside your eagerness to throw insults around and start laying the blame where it belongs....with the RNC.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:16:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By raven:
"Hurr, Durr, I don't like intelligent crafty candidates who use the rules to their advantage!  I'm votin' for the ignoramus who's declared bankruptcy 4 times!"  
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You do know there is a difference between personal and business bankruptcies right and that each one of his many businesses are separate from the others right?  So 4 of them failed, that happens sometimes, not all businesses succeed, how many did not go bankrupt?  Well more than average.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:16:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:19:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Top_Secret:


Yeah those 65,000 people that participated in Colorado were totally disenfranchised. Showing up is tough.
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Originally Posted By Top_Secret:
Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:
Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
If you are stupid enough to think CO was rigged, Trump is your boy.


You just threw away about a 1/3 or better of the eligible voters in this country who thought their vote actually mattered. Well before the last month or so when the GOPe began telling people what a joke primaries are.
Lol


You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.


Yeah those 65,000 people that participated in Colorado were totally disenfranchised. Showing up is tough.



Cancelling the preference poll (that likely would have gone to Trump) has the hallmark of cheating to the average voter.

Your view and my view don't matter.  Word games don't matter.  Your definitions and rudeness to your fellow conservates will matter.

You make fun of people that you NEED on election day.  How do you think that will end?  

It is like every Cruz supporter on Arf has a serious case of aspergers.

They don't seem to comprehend how normal people view their actions...how your average voter sees their behavior, their words, their scorn towards everyone around them.

WTF...how to win friends 101...don't fuck with their votes and don't make fun of people you need on your side.

Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:22:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:

What are you talking about?
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Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:
Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
If you are stupid enough to think CO was rigged, Trump is your boy.


You just threw away about a 1/3 or better of the eligible voters in this country who thought their vote actually mattered. Well before the last month or so when the GOPe began telling people what a joke primaries are.
Lol


You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.

What are you talking about?


I'm talking about you're "lol" comment in regards to what lostnswv said.  You obviously think that disenfranchising voters by making them think they don't matter is funny.  If that's funny to you then you are obviously fine with a system that chooses presidential nominees without the people getting to vote on it.  Or maybe I'm completely wrong and am misunderstanding your lol response to what lostnswv said.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:22:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:


The people who are here supporting Cruz do not understand that the move being mades by Cruz and his supporters are being seen as corrupt and shady. My cousin who is 84 and a life long Republican and an Evangelical Christian referred to Cruz yesterday on a telephone call thusly, " I can not vote for a man who proclaims his faith then act like any other corrupt politician." She thinks he is "underhanded and crooked." She did not think what happened in Colorado was possible in this country.

My dad looked at me and when she said this, "I don't think them rules are working out like the GOP thought they would."
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By dan45678:
This doesn't surprise me. The GOPe walked right into the trap that Trump inadvertently laid for them. Cruz would have won Colorado easily too lol.


The people who are here supporting Cruz do not understand that the move being mades by Cruz and his supporters are being seen as corrupt and shady. My cousin who is 84 and a life long Republican and an Evangelical Christian referred to Cruz yesterday on a telephone call thusly, " I can not vote for a man who proclaims his faith then act like any other corrupt politician." She thinks he is "underhanded and crooked." She did not think what happened in Colorado was possible in this country.

My dad looked at me and when she said this, "I don't think them rules are working out like the GOP thought they would."


There was nothing underhanded, crooked, or even unprecedented about it.  People who proclaim such either have certain motives in their portrayal or are demonstrating their ignorance.  This sounds like a case of the latter.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:23:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:



THE RULES DO NOT MATTER TO THE AVERAGE VOTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most people think that when they vote for a candidate in a state primary and their guy wins that is it. He get the delegates and the delegates will be loyal to him at convention. Then they see people crowing about some candidate pulling more delegates and talking about how they got delegates because the other guy's campaign sucks. The voter hears the opposition just crapped on their vote. Or in CO the Party and their cronies locked them out of the vote and denied them a chance to have a say in the process.

All of this looks like a seen in Cuba or Iran and many voters are angry and the anger is just being stoked by people saying "well it was within the rules you are just too ignorant to understand the rules." It smack of criminals getting off on a technicality. "w
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By Veccio:
The rules have been laid out for how long? The campaigns have known for how long what they needed to do?


The Trump campaign, quite simply, failed. What you are seeing now is his ego and narcissism try to cover up the fact that he failed. "It's rigged!" "They made shady deals and changed the rules at the last second!" This is all exhibit A for why I will never vote for that man.



THE RULES DO NOT MATTER TO THE AVERAGE VOTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most people think that when they vote for a candidate in a state primary and their guy wins that is it. He get the delegates and the delegates will be loyal to him at convention. Then they see people crowing about some candidate pulling more delegates and talking about how they got delegates because the other guy's campaign sucks. The voter hears the opposition just crapped on their vote. Or in CO the Party and their cronies locked them out of the vote and denied them a chance to have a say in the process.

All of this looks like a seen in Cuba or Iran and many voters are angry and the anger is just being stoked by people saying "well it was within the rules you are just too ignorant to understand the rules." It smack of criminals getting off on a technicality. "w



THIS.

I seriously think the Cruz supporters have raging cases of aspergers.  It is like they don't comprehend the normal human thoughts, views, and emotions of the general public...IE the people that they NEED on election day.

Playing fuck fuck games with word definitions and screwing with people's vote is a sure way to get crushed.  Even the perception of it is enough to get you crushed on election day.

Hall monitor dorky games and quoting rule books will make you lose.  Win on being a winner in the hearts and minds of voters...not because you found a fine print rule in a book nobody read.  

CO will cost Cruz credibility.  It already has...bigtime.  Perception is reality on the street.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:24:09 PM EDT
WSJ - Let Me Ask America a Question.  How has the ‘system’ been working out for you and your family? No wonder voters demand change.





http://www.wsj.com/articles/let-me-ask-america-a-question-1460675882



"On Saturday, April 9, Colorado had an "election” without voters.
Delegates were chosen on behalf of a presidential nominee, yet the
people of Colorado were not able to cast their ballots to say which
nominee they preferred. A planned vote had been canceled. And one million Republicans in Colorado were sidelined." ...[more]
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:26:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:


I'm talking about you're "lol" comment in regards to what lostnswv said.  You obviously think that disenfranchising voters by making them think they don't matter is funny.  If that's funny to you then you are obviously fine with a system that chooses presidential nominees without the people getting to vote on it.  Or maybe I'm completely wrong and am misunderstanding your lol response to what lostnswv said.
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Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:
Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:
You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.

What are you talking about?


I'm talking about you're "lol" comment in regards to what lostnswv said.  You obviously think that disenfranchising voters by making them think they don't matter is funny.  If that's funny to you then you are obviously fine with a system that chooses presidential nominees without the people getting to vote on it.  Or maybe I'm completely wrong and am misunderstanding your lol response to what lostnswv said.

What voters were disenfranchised?
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:26:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:


There was nothing underhanded, crooked, or even unprecedented about it.  People who proclaim such either have certain motives in their portrayal or are demonstrating their ignorance.  This sounds like a case of the latter.
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By dan45678:
This doesn't surprise me. The GOPe walked right into the trap that Trump inadvertently laid for them. Cruz would have won Colorado easily too lol.


The people who are here supporting Cruz do not understand that the move being mades by Cruz and his supporters are being seen as corrupt and shady. My cousin who is 84 and a life long Republican and an Evangelical Christian referred to Cruz yesterday on a telephone call thusly, " I can not vote for a man who proclaims his faith then act like any other corrupt politician." She thinks he is "underhanded and crooked." She did not think what happened in Colorado was possible in this country.

My dad looked at me and when she said this, "I don't think them rules are working out like the GOP thought they would."


There was nothing underhanded, crooked, or even unprecedented about it.  People who proclaim such either have certain motives in their portrayal or are demonstrating their ignorance.  This sounds like a case of the latter.



Why did they cancel the preference poll?  

Love Cruz all you want...but see that event from the eyes of people who don't love him like he is a God?  How does it look from their eyes?  

It looks shady...as if the will and votes of the people has been disregarded or taken from them.

How do you think the general public will react to that?

Think about the public and how your simple man on the street sees it...

Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:26:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FedDC:
The Cruz supporters are going to learn a hard lesson about fucking with people's right to vote...whether they actually did it or not.

Playing games with popular vote vs political games/rules will end with the general public turning strongly against you.  You can win a battle (CO) and lose the entire war (presidential election).


The fact of the matter is that Trump has more votes from the public.  He just does.  Hate that reality all you want, it is what it is.  He is more popular than Cruz.  Cruz comes across as slimy and bought out/creepy.  

When the general public sees CO, they see insider rule changing bullshit that has the appearance of circumventing the people's votes.  Whether that is accurate or not is irrelevent.  Perception is reality.  

The GOPe wants Cruz.  They also are willing to lose the entire election as they said publicly.  

Think hard about those to facts and reconcile them into your presonal reality...they are willing to lose and are willing to lose with Cruz.  

Playing electioneering games is directly alienating a large portion of the conservative base.  Saying "fuck you" to them when you "win" CO isn't going to unify the party.  The conservative base should be working together to keep a D out of office, not countin scalps of fellow conservatives.  

Don't fuck with the voters.  Don't play word games or hall monitor rule change games.  Don't be a dork and debate what words mean.  Win based on popular vote or lose to the D side who understands that.

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No one fucked with the voters, no one made a bunch of last-minute rule changes that disenfranchised anyone or changed how things worked (in fact, the change made last year preserved the status quo), there were no secret backroom dealings.  It's a bunch of made up bullshit from Trump and his supporters because he failed miserably and it's easier for him to scream "Cheater!" than it is to admit to his mistakes.  What was Cruz supposed to do, not campaign in Colorado?  What a load of crap.  Was Trump wrong to campaign there once he realized he actually needed to do so?  Because his campaign was there at the convention, doing the same thing the Cruz people were, just much less competently and in a more hostile environment because his campaign decided not to make a showing at the caucus and didn't get supporters out to vote.  Trump screwed the pooch, and is no poisoning the results because he lost.  He shows every day what a huge POS he is.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:27:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2016 10:28:46 PM EDT by Top_Secret]
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Originally Posted By FedDC:
Cancelling the preference poll (that likely would have gone to Trump) has the hallmark of cheating to the average voter.

Your view and my view don't matter.  Word games don't matter.  Your definitions and rudeness to your fellow conservates will matter.

You make fun of people that you NEED on election day.  How do you think that will end?  

It is like every Cruz supporter on Arf has a serious case of aspergers.

They don't seem to comprehend how normal people view their actions...how your average voter sees their behavior, their words, their scorn towards everyone around them.

WTF...how to win friends 101...don't fuck with their votes and don't make fun of people you need on your side.

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The only scorn is from Trump supporters angry he could get blown out. Grow up. If there was direct candidate preference polling when the initial delegates were chosen it would have come out worse than Utah. Trump didn't win a single delegate. He blew off the State convention. Almost like he came to the conclusion nobody liked him there.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:27:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:

What voters were disenfranchised?
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Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:
Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:
You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.

What are you talking about?


I'm talking about you're "lol" comment in regards to what lostnswv said.  You obviously think that disenfranchising voters by making them think they don't matter is funny.  If that's funny to you then you are obviously fine with a system that chooses presidential nominees without the people getting to vote on it.  Or maybe I'm completely wrong and am misunderstanding your lol response to what lostnswv said.

What voters were disenfranchised?


The ones who would have voted in the preference poll that the GOPe cancelled because it was not going to be in favor of their guy.

Surely you see this.  Support whomever you want...but don't piss down someone's back and tell them it is just rain.  


Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:28:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:


There was nothing underhanded, crooked, or even unprecedented about it.  People who proclaim such either have certain motives in their portrayal or are demonstrating their ignorance.  This sounds like a case of the latter.
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By dan45678:
This doesn't surprise me. The GOPe walked right into the trap that Trump inadvertently laid for them. Cruz would have won Colorado easily too lol.


The people who are here supporting Cruz do not understand that the move being mades by Cruz and his supporters are being seen as corrupt and shady. My cousin who is 84 and a life long Republican and an Evangelical Christian referred to Cruz yesterday on a telephone call thusly, " I can not vote for a man who proclaims his faith then act like any other corrupt politician." She thinks he is "underhanded and crooked." She did not think what happened in Colorado was possible in this country.

My dad looked at me and when she said this, "I don't think them rules are working out like the GOP thought they would."


There was nothing underhanded, crooked, or even unprecedented about it.  People who proclaim such either have certain motives in their portrayal or are demonstrating their ignorance.  This sounds like a case of the latter.

You guys keep telling yourselves that as the titanic goes down......... Cause its going down fast soon...Colo. showed voters just what both Cruz and the party think of them...and they will pay a huge price for it........
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:29:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/15/2016 10:17:59 AM EDT by BushBoar]

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Originally Posted By Mr_Smiley:


< Removed. -- BB >
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With all due respect what the fuck are you talking about? He points out how corrupt the Republican Party has become. I think most conservatives are echoing his thoughts. Maybe we didn't watch the same video?
 
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:29:32 PM EDT
The GOP is going to be on life support after this election and likely done for shortly thereafter.  I am hearing party insiders and elites openly talking about making it harder for the average person to participate in selecting the GOP nominee, moving to caucuses and state conventions, while getting away from primaries.  They don't like Trump, probably feel the same about Cruz and the answer is to take away the little guy's vote, so the party can be more "pure".  I fully expect Democrats to take the Senate, make significant gains in the House and take the Oval Office this election.  Once that happens how do things get better?
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:29:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By dan45678:


It's not about "should." Should is the stupidest word in the English language when it comes to describing what's going on in politics. What DID happen is Trump spent a month saying "they are trying to screw me, even though I'm the clear frontrunner." Then the Colorado convention rolled around and Cruz, due to his perception as the best alternative to Trump, was able to secure all of the delegates without a popular vote being held at all. Trump then got to say "See! I told you these people were trying to screw me! They don't care about your votes!"

If you look at the map, and the fact that Cruz has won every state that borders Colorado so far, it's not as if a popular vote would have yielded different results, but most people don't know that lol. So it plays right into Trump's hand.
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Originally Posted By dan45678:
Originally Posted By cpl_fisher:
Originally Posted By dan45678:
This doesn't surprise me. The GOPe walked right into the trap that Trump inadvertently laid for them. Cruz would have won Colorado easily too lol.

So you think that Colorado should have changed the process that it has elected delegates for the majority of the lat 100 years, just to suit Trump?


It's not about "should." Should is the stupidest word in the English language when it comes to describing what's going on in politics. What DID happen is Trump spent a month saying "they are trying to screw me, even though I'm the clear frontrunner." Then the Colorado convention rolled around and Cruz, due to his perception as the best alternative to Trump, was able to secure all of the delegates without a popular vote being held at all. Trump then got to say "See! I told you these people were trying to screw me! They don't care about your votes!"

If you look at the map, and the fact that Cruz has won every state that borders Colorado so far, it's not as if a popular vote would have yielded different results, but most people don't know that lol. So it plays right into Trump's hand.


There was a popular vote.  On March 1.  Cruz supporters came out en masse.  Trump supporters were largely absent.  Since that election chooses the lower-level delegates, it meant that Cruz supporters would predominantly be chosen to be delegates to the conventions, which means that the national delegates were being chosen by mostly Cruz supporters.  Trump's campaign was a no-show on Super Tuesday in CO, and he paid for it, although in all likelihood he would still have lost.  But a loss at the caucus ensures a loss at the state convention.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:29:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Top_Secret:


The only scorn is from Trump supporters angry he could get blown out. Grow up. If there was direct candidate preference polling when the initial delegates were chosen it would have come out worse than Utah. Trump didn't win a single delegate.
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Originally Posted By Top_Secret:
Originally Posted By FedDC:
Cancelling the preference poll (that likely would have gone to Trump) has the hallmark of cheating to the average voter.

Your view and my view don't matter.  Word games don't matter.  Your definitions and rudeness to your fellow conservates will matter.

You make fun of people that you NEED on election day.  How do you think that will end?  

It is like every Cruz supporter on Arf has a serious case of aspergers.

They don't seem to comprehend how normal people view their actions...how your average voter sees their behavior, their words, their scorn towards everyone around them.

WTF...how to win friends 101...don't fuck with their votes and don't make fun of people you need on your side.



The only scorn is from Trump supporters angry he could get blown out. Grow up. If there was direct candidate preference polling when the initial delegates were chosen it would have come out worse than Utah. Trump didn't win a single delegate.



Really?  The Cruz supporters haven't been making snarky comments constantly towards other conservatives about how everyone but them is too stupid to understand their brilliance?

Really

Aspergers...it has to be.  No normal person or group can be this blind to how people function in the real world.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:30:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FedDC:



How can people not understand this?


The PERCEPTION of the general public IS REALITY on election day.  

Fuck with their ability to walk into a polling station and vote and they will never forget or forgive.  

How can Cruz supporters be happy about that  They are guarenteeing their defeat as they just alienated at least 50% of the conservative base in one swoop who will NEVER side with Cruz because of this.  

WTF...this isn't hard to understand.  You don't play games with people's vote.  Never...no way no how...even the perception of it gets you fucked on election day.  

Now Cruz looks slimy...like a skeezy politician that worked inside rules to get votes, not a guy who actually won the people's support.

Right or wrong, that is the perception among the public...who gets the final say in November.
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Originally Posted By FedDC:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
If you are stupid enough to think CO was rigged, Trump is your boy.


You just threw away about a 1/3 or better of the eligible voters in this country who thought their vote actually mattered. Well before the last month or so when the GOPe began telling people what a joke primaries are.



How can people not understand this?


The PERCEPTION of the general public IS REALITY on election day.  

Fuck with their ability to walk into a polling station and vote and they will never forget or forgive.  

How can Cruz supporters be happy about that  They are guarenteeing their defeat as they just alienated at least 50% of the conservative base in one swoop who will NEVER side with Cruz because of this.  

WTF...this isn't hard to understand.  You don't play games with people's vote.  Never...no way no how...even the perception of it gets you fucked on election day.  

Now Cruz looks slimy...like a skeezy politician that worked inside rules to get votes, not a guy who actually won the people's support.

Right or wrong, that is the perception among the public...who gets the final say in November.


So what was Cruz supposed to do?  Not campaign?  Not get out the vote at the caucus?  Because Trump might try to create a false perception if he were to lose?  Do you realize how silly you sound?
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:30:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FedDC:


The ones who would have voted in the preference poll that the GOPe cancelled because it was not going to be in favor of their guy.

Surely you see this.  Support whomever you want...but don't piss down someone's back and tell them it is just rain.  
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Originally Posted By FedDC:
Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:
Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:
You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.

What are you talking about?


I'm talking about you're "lol" comment in regards to what lostnswv said.  You obviously think that disenfranchising voters by making them think they don't matter is funny.  If that's funny to you then you are obviously fine with a system that chooses presidential nominees without the people getting to vote on it.  Or maybe I'm completely wrong and am misunderstanding your lol response to what lostnswv said.

What voters were disenfranchised?


The ones who would have voted in the preference poll that the GOPe cancelled because it was not going to be in favor of their guy.

Surely you see this.  Support whomever you want...but don't piss down someone's back and tell them it is just rain.  
I'm sorry. I automatically filter out any post that places blame on a GOPe boogeyman. Would you like to try rephrasing your answer?
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:31:01 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By bigstick61:
No one fucked with the voters, no one made a bunch of last-minute rule changes that disenfranchised anyone or changed how things worked (in fact, the change made last year preserved the status quo), there were no secret backroom dealings.  It's a bunch of made up bullshit from Trump and his supporters because he failed miserably and it's easier for him to scream "Cheater!" than it is to admit to his mistakes.  What was Cruz supposed to do, not campaign in Colorado?  What a load of crap.  Was Trump wrong to campaign there once he realized he actually needed to do so?  Because his campaign was there at the convention, doing the same thing the Cruz people were, just much less competently and in a more hostile environment because his campaign decided not to make a showing at the caucus and didn't get supporters out to vote.  Trump screwed the pooch, and is no poisoning the results because he lost.  He shows every day what a huge POS he is.
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:



Originally Posted By FedDC:

The Cruz supporters are going to learn a hard lesson about fucking with people's right to vote...whether they actually did it or not.



Playing games with popular vote vs political games/rules will end with the general public turning strongly against you.  You can win a battle (CO) and lose the entire war (presidential election).





The fact of the matter is that Trump has more votes from the public.  He just does.  Hate that reality all you want, it is what it is.  He is more popular than Cruz.  Cruz comes across as slimy and bought out/creepy.  



When the general public sees CO, they see insider rule changing bullshit that has the appearance of circumventing the people's votes.  Whether that is accurate or not is irrelevent.  Perception is reality.  



The GOPe wants Cruz.  They also are willing to lose the entire election as they said publicly.  



Think hard about those to facts and reconcile them into your presonal reality...they are willing to lose and are willing to lose with Cruz.  



Playing electioneering games is directly alienating a large portion of the conservative base.  Saying "fuck you" to them when you "win" CO isn't going to unify the party.  The conservative base should be working together to keep a D out of office, not countin scalps of fellow conservatives.  



Don't fuck with the voters.  Don't play word games or hall monitor rule change games.  Don't be a dork and debate what words mean.  Win based on popular vote or lose to the D side who understands that.







No one fucked with the voters, no one made a bunch of last-minute rule changes that disenfranchised anyone or changed how things worked (in fact, the change made last year preserved the status quo), there were no secret backroom dealings.  It's a bunch of made up bullshit from Trump and his supporters because he failed miserably and it's easier for him to scream "Cheater!" than it is to admit to his mistakes.  What was Cruz supposed to do, not campaign in Colorado?  What a load of crap.  Was Trump wrong to campaign there once he realized he actually needed to do so?  Because his campaign was there at the convention, doing the same thing the Cruz people were, just much less competently and in a more hostile environment because his campaign decided not to make a showing at the caucus and didn't get supporters out to vote.  Trump screwed the pooch, and is no poisoning the results because he lost.  He shows every day what a huge POS he is.
Dude, you can't convince someone with the mentality of a Trump supporter how the 'real' world works. They'll only reply, "but...but...but....".



 
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:32:37 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Interesting...attempting to circumvent the participation of the electorate results in a negative response.
View Quote


The electorate participated.  They voted for precinct delegates, like in many caucuses around the country.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:32:38 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:


There was a popular vote.  On March 1.  Cruz supporters came out en masse.  Trump supporters were largely absent.  Since that election chooses the lower-level delegates, it meant that Cruz supporters would predominantly be chosen to be delegates to the conventions, which means that the national delegates were being chosen by mostly Cruz supporters.  Trump's campaign was a no-show on Super Tuesday in CO, and he paid for it, although in all likelihood he would still have lost.  But a loss at the caucus ensures a loss at the state convention.
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Originally Posted By dan45678:
Originally Posted By cpl_fisher:
Originally Posted By dan45678:
This doesn't surprise me. The GOPe walked right into the trap that Trump inadvertently laid for them. Cruz would have won Colorado easily too lol.

So you think that Colorado should have changed the process that it has elected delegates for the majority of the lat 100 years, just to suit Trump?


It's not about "should." Should is the stupidest word in the English language when it comes to describing what's going on in politics. What DID happen is Trump spent a month saying "they are trying to screw me, even though I'm the clear frontrunner." Then the Colorado convention rolled around and Cruz, due to his perception as the best alternative to Trump, was able to secure all of the delegates without a popular vote being held at all. Trump then got to say "See! I told you these people were trying to screw me! They don't care about your votes!"

If you look at the map, and the fact that Cruz has won every state that borders Colorado so far, it's not as if a popular vote would have yielded different results, but most people don't know that lol. So it plays right into Trump's hand.


There was a popular vote.  On March 1.  Cruz supporters came out en masse.  Trump supporters were largely absent.  Since that election chooses the lower-level delegates, it meant that Cruz supporters would predominantly be chosen to be delegates to the conventions, which means that the national delegates were being chosen by mostly Cruz supporters.  Trump's campaign was a no-show on Super Tuesday in CO, and he paid for it, although in all likelihood he would still have lost.  But a loss at the caucus ensures a loss at the state convention.



Do you really believe the general public (the actual voters you need to win) believes what you just wrote?  

Or...do you believe they think it is slimy electioneering by slimy politicians who worked to prevent them from voting in the customary preference poll?

One of those two sentences is reality on the street and in the minds of the public and it will decide the future of your guy.  

Trump wins in the public eye.  Cruz comes off like a slimy politician that cheated...whether it is true to you or not.  

Winning battles, losing wars 101 for Cruz.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:34:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:


So what was Cruz supposed to do?  Not campaign?  Not get out the vote at the caucus?  Because Trump might try to create a false perception if he were to lose?  Do you realize how silly you sound?
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Originally Posted By FedDC:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
If you are stupid enough to think CO was rigged, Trump is your boy.


You just threw away about a 1/3 or better of the eligible voters in this country who thought their vote actually mattered. Well before the last month or so when the GOPe began telling people what a joke primaries are.



How can people not understand this?


The PERCEPTION of the general public IS REALITY on election day.  

Fuck with their ability to walk into a polling station and vote and they will never forget or forgive.  

How can Cruz supporters be happy about that  They are guarenteeing their defeat as they just alienated at least 50% of the conservative base in one swoop who will NEVER side with Cruz because of this.  

WTF...this isn't hard to understand.  You don't play games with people's vote.  Never...no way no how...even the perception of it gets you fucked on election day.  

Now Cruz looks slimy...like a skeezy politician that worked inside rules to get votes, not a guy who actually won the people's support.

Right or wrong, that is the perception among the public...who gets the final say in November.


So what was Cruz supposed to do?  Not campaign?  Not get out the vote at the caucus?  Because Trump might try to create a false perception if he were to lose?  Do you realize how silly you sound?



Maybe insist on a preference poll?  There is an idea...let people actually vote and see what the actual people want...just like they did last time?  

Nope, can't let the general public have their views known...

That will end well.  

Perception is reality for the man on the street.  
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:34:36 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By bigstick61:
The electorate participated.  They voted for precinct delegates, like in many caucuses around the country.
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:



Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Interesting...attempting to circumvent the participation of the electorate results in a negative response.





The electorate participated.  They voted for precinct delegates, like in many caucuses around the country.


Some of them seem to have been expecting to participate in a state primary.





 
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:35:09 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:





You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.
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Everyone had their chance to vote.



You have to show up to do it.



 
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:35:30 PM EDT


The spotlight was turned on against the CO "primary" and the public saw the cockroaches scurrying, many for the first time, and each roach had Ted Cruz's name printed on it.

Cruz, the RNC, and their media lackeys can go on about "the rules" to hell freezes over but nobody likes to think that they don't matter. Remember it's not only Trump's delegates he's "stealing" but Kasich's too. Cruz is going to have to deal with a whole raft of pissed-off voters in the remaining primaries.

Indeed the primaries are the one place in national politics where the peeps think they might matter and their vote counts for something but they were shown otherwise, not only in CO but in other states that have already voted where Cruz has sleazed his way in stealing the will of the people away in the dead of night.

What do Cruz supporters expect, accolades and kisses to be thrown Cruz's way after such behavior? Cruz deserves everything coming his way in the remaining primaries.....Two fucking coats.





Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:36:11 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By FeebMaster:





Everyone had their chance to vote.



You have to show up to do it.

 
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Originally Posted By FeebMaster:



Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:





You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.


Everyone had their chance to vote.



You have to show up to do it.

 


Did you miss what happened in CO?



WSJ - Let Me Ask America a Question.  How has the ‘system’ been working
out for you and your family? No wonder voters demand change.





http://www.wsj.com/articles/let-me-ask-america-a-question-1460675882



"On
Saturday, April 9, Colorado had an "election” without voters. Delegates
were chosen on behalf of a presidential nominee, yet the people of
Colorado were not able to cast their ballots to say which nominee they
preferred. A planned vote had been canceled. And one million Republicans
in Colorado were sidelined." ...[more]



 
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:37:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By pcsutton:
Dude, you can't convince someone with the mentality of a Trump supporter how the 'real' world works. They'll only reply, "but...but...but....".
 
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Originally Posted By pcsutton:
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Originally Posted By FedDC:
The Cruz supporters are going to learn a hard lesson about fucking with people's right to vote...whether they actually did it or not.

Playing games with popular vote vs political games/rules will end with the general public turning strongly against you.  You can win a battle (CO) and lose the entire war (presidential election).


The fact of the matter is that Trump has more votes from the public.  He just does.  Hate that reality all you want, it is what it is.  He is more popular than Cruz.  Cruz comes across as slimy and bought out/creepy.  

When the general public sees CO, they see insider rule changing bullshit that has the appearance of circumventing the people's votes.  Whether that is accurate or not is irrelevent.  Perception is reality.  

The GOPe wants Cruz.  They also are willing to lose the entire election as they said publicly.  

Think hard about those to facts and reconcile them into your presonal reality...they are willing to lose and are willing to lose with Cruz.  

Playing electioneering games is directly alienating a large portion of the conservative base.  Saying "fuck you" to them when you "win" CO isn't going to unify the party.  The conservative base should be working together to keep a D out of office, not countin scalps of fellow conservatives.  

Don't fuck with the voters.  Don't play word games or hall monitor rule change games.  Don't be a dork and debate what words mean.  Win based on popular vote or lose to the D side who understands that.



No one fucked with the voters, no one made a bunch of last-minute rule changes that disenfranchised anyone or changed how things worked (in fact, the change made last year preserved the status quo), there were no secret backroom dealings.  It's a bunch of made up bullshit from Trump and his supporters because he failed miserably and it's easier for him to scream "Cheater!" than it is to admit to his mistakes.  What was Cruz supposed to do, not campaign in Colorado?  What a load of crap.  Was Trump wrong to campaign there once he realized he actually needed to do so?  Because his campaign was there at the convention, doing the same thing the Cruz people were, just much less competently and in a more hostile environment because his campaign decided not to make a showing at the caucus and didn't get supporters out to vote.  Trump screwed the pooch, and is no poisoning the results because he lost.  He shows every day what a huge POS he is.
Dude, you can't convince someone with the mentality of a Trump supporter how the 'real' world works. They'll only reply, "but...but...but....".
 



This is what I mean.  

Make fun and fuck with fellow R voters.  

Cruz will need the votes that his supporters drive away with their scorn.  

How is that hard to understand?  Do you comprehend that Trump supporters vote and that their vote counts equally to yours (when the poll isn't cancelled of course).  

In November, what effect will the scorn Cruz supporters put out have on the base that they need?

Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:37:13 PM EDT
"Trump up 18 points in Wisconsin"
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 10:38:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FedDC:



Cancelling the preference poll (that likely would have gone to Trump) has the hallmark of cheating to the average voter.

Your view and my view don't matter.  Word games don't matter.  Your definitions and rudeness to your fellow conservates will matter.

You make fun of people that you NEED on election day.  How do you think that will end?  

It is like every Cruz supporter on Arf has a serious case of aspergers.

They don't seem to comprehend how normal people view their actions...how your average voter sees their behavior, their words, their scorn towards everyone around them.

WTF...how to win friends 101...don't fuck with their votes and don't make fun of people you need on your side.

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Originally Posted By FedDC:
Originally Posted By Top_Secret:
Originally Posted By Capt_Rhodes:
Originally Posted By Bedouin2W:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:

You just threw away about a 1/3 or better of the eligible voters in this country who thought their vote actually mattered. Well before the last month or so when the GOPe began telling people what a joke primaries are.
Lol


You think it's funny that the people don't get to vote for who ultimately might be their president?  You're fine with a bunch of party insiders picking candidates without the people of a state getting a vote on it?  If you're fine with that then you might want to think about moving to North Korea.


Yeah those 65,000 people that participated in Colorado were totally disenfranchised. Showing up is tough.



Cancelling the preference poll (that likely would have gone to Trump) has the hallmark of cheating to the average voter.

Your view and my view don't matter.  Word games don't matter.  Your definitions and rudeness to your fellow conservates will matter.

You make fun of people that you NEED on election day.  How do you think that will end?  

It is like every Cruz supporter on Arf has a serious case of aspergers.

They don't seem to comprehend how normal people view their actions...how your average voter sees their behavior, their words, their scorn towards everyone around them.

WTF...how to win friends 101...don't fuck with their votes and don't make fun of people you need on your side.



The preference poll was cancelled because the RNC tried to dictate how it would be used.  It had previously been non-binding; the binding of the delegates was done by those running to be delegates themselves, and continued to be after the straw poll was cancelled.

There is no evidence that Trump would have won in a binding preference poll in Colorado.  The evidence points otherwise.  Trump supporters were a no-show at the caucus.

Trump is the reason why there is any negative perception of the process.  He is creating the perception by lying, whining, and being the general scumbag that he is.
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