Exactly. Once a total ban is passed all guns will be "obviously illegal". So I can assume you would take me in for having a gun while we're under a total ban, ja? Any good LEO would, right?

My point is that I want some cop (I don't care if he is blind or not) to recognize that any law making it illegal for me to be packing a particular small arm around with me in my car is unconstitutional bullshit and refuse to enforce it.

Put your tin hat on.  There will never be a total ban on weapons in the Unites States of America.  Not unless you wanna repeal the constitution.
 
And if you think that LEOs are going to selectively enforce the law, just because they don't like the law, are not going to enforce it, you are kidding yourself.  

So you want us to stop arresting people for drug use?  Oh, just because there are people who advocate legalizing it?  

Sure, why don't we just condone child pornography, or child molestation.  NAMBLA supports it, so why don't you get a referendum started, with signatures and all.  

Ok, here is the scenario for you to tell me how you would do it.  Just supplant any other felony, murder, arson, carjacking, etc, and change your above scenario and/or opinion if it should be legalized or allowed, and broadcast that.  You would be labeled a crackpot.  Now ask all the members if you think LEOs should let people do it.  


LEOs do not have the luxury of having an opinion on the law when it comes to the job of enforcing it.  

A majority of jobs have that luxury.  I don't.  

Having a perfectly legal weapon in your car is your right.  I cannot say I support the Brady Bill, or certain issues in other parts of the country that limit how you can own or purchase weapons.  I am on this board because I LOVE guns, I have a personally owned AR-15 that I thouroghly enjoy.  I own it because the Constitution allows me to.  

But I do not think that the U.S. will ever get to the point where, like in the book Farenheight 451, the country bans books, or guns, or whatever, and every citizen will have to go out and put their guns out into a pile for the government to take away.  Not in my lietime, anyway.

So, I am on your side in that respect, but to fault LEOs for the job is one thing.  Attack the politicians for doing it in the first place, not us.

Yes, I think it would be higher than %85 percent.  Out of 100,000 LEO's, that would mean 15,000 would rebel against serving a law that would make legal rifles (AR-15's, etc) illegal, and subject to confiscation or turn in.  15,000 LEO's self educated in the 2nd amendment is very wishful thinking.

Thousands of LEO's no nothing more about firearms that what their range instructors tell them on qualification day.  Thousands more see long arms as nothing more than hunting tools, sniper guns (aimed at them) and things that civilians shouldn't own.  
There will NEVER be a class given to department leaders on the rights of citizens under the 2nd amendment.  VERY VERY VERY few LEO's understand the 2nd amendment.  

red  dawn is coming. we dont even need no russians.  MY GUNS ARE MINE.

It will happen slowly, as it HAS been happening.  



[red]There is no constitutional AMENDMENT for the right of drug use or pornography!![/red]  If you are an LEO, you prove my point of uneducated LEO's concerning the 2nd amendment!

You ar right in that respect.  Most LEOs do not know.  But most LEOs do NOT enforce federal codes.  We have no authority to.  State laws are the laws we enforce.  So any federal weapons violations would not be a problem for your average LEO.

Check your state laws concerning this.  

If I saw a truckload of automatic weapons, you know what I would say?

"Cool.  Any on Sale?"

Where has it been happening, except for Chiacgo and Kalifornia?  Where law abiding citizens have had their legal weapons taken away.  Please provide facts...

Generalizations are your strong suit...

You have totally gone off the subject with this thread...  I have no idea how to respond to wild accusations, and conjecture from your wild imagination...

Good luck with your fantasy scenario...

[b]Aladdin[/b], see this link for some info.  I wanted you to have your question answered, plus I wanted you to be able to see some feedback from others.  If you truly are a 2nd Amendment supporting LEO, then it would behoove you to find out all you can about what will happen in the future, and what your role as an LEO will be.

[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=114339[/url]

Next time you go to lunch take a sandwich.

My little world..........

My Sgt. is an avid deer hunter and is working on getting his 2 daughters ready to hunt, the older one may get to hunt next with him next year. (most of his deers are killed by Ford........kidding)

Me 3 years Army, 2 years MA DOC, and 9 years in my current job. Was shooting bb guns .22's and 12 gauge as a kid. M-16, M-60 trained by Uncle Sam. Also mini-14, 37mm grenade launcher, revolver, and pistol training.

#2-3 yrs Army, not a hunter, well occacionally does hunt.

#3 - Avid hunter bow/rifle has 250 acres I shoot on. Also a TRT guy, Thompson, MP-5, M-16 trained. Just bought his second AR.

#4 - Not a gun guy, but definitley not anti-gun, history buff, esp military. Laughs at OLY's storys of buying machine gun belts and having tracers left over.

#5 - Not a gun guy, not anti either, doesn't care that much.

#6 - Former USMC, TRT guy, not a hunter but definetley a gun guy.

#7 - Gun guy extreme has his AK's etc (30 long guns) in a poured concrete vault in the basement of his house. Also a hunter

#8 - Former 11B, also a martial arts guy. Not a gun guy, but seems to enjoy shooting.

#9 - (recently promoted and transfered) Former Air Force guy. Thinks work is what you do to occupy your time between hunting and fishing. Multiple guns/bows. Just got an evil Benelli shotgun, assault shotgun??

So who would be taking what from who?

I could go on, about 50% of the people I work with are fairly serious about hunting. A few don't care that much and a few don't seem to care much about guns.

I could also get into the people I work with that shoot competitivley, they aren't happy about 10 round limits FYI, or the multiple people that have assembled their own AR's. Of course I also run into people that NEVER held a firearm until the were hired and trained to shoot by "my company".

By the way I started a conversation about .50 cal rifles, everyone present agreed a ban wouldn't do anything but punish some law abiding gun owners. (they had a good laugh about shootin down planes with them too)

I think what you may run into though is many cops don't come into contact with guns or gunowners, except when investigating criminal acts. So they may seem a little jaded about guns.

Just following orders huh. I think if you're going to be enforcing laws you have an obligation to think about what exactly it is that you're doing when enforcing those laws. Otherwise:

[img]http://www.stjohnsprep.org/htdocs/sjp_tec/projects/internet/covino/poljew2.gif[/img]

Thanx Al, for showing a childish, stereotyping, jerk as gun owners, kind've post. It's that level of maturity that makes the anti's say people like YOU shouldn't have guns.

Way to go not only do you show your vast maturity, you stereotyped cops, and when some of them look at your little post they will see that you want a "them vs us" kinda world. Don't whine when it happens.

Nice going.

Look, they guy said that he wouldn't go around confiscating guns because it would be contrary to the 2nd ammendment. Then he goes on to say that I'd be "begging for arrest" were I to present an obvious disregard for the gun laws that are currently on the books. I think the nazi analogy is a good one. Suppose you were to ask an average WWII german troop, not SS or other zealot, just a rank and file grunt, whether or not he'd be willing to machine gun down people who are lined up and standing at the edge of a mass grave. He'd probably say no, agreed? No suppose you ask him to load people on to trains. Would he say no then?

When people go mindless and allow themselves to be led by evil men things like this happen:
[url]http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat8.htm
[/url]

I suspect most cops would arrest me for having an illegal weapon. In my opinion this makes them little better than nazis. There, now that is stereotyping cops. Why don't you ask your group of officer friends whether or not they would enforce a ban on .50 BMG rifles were one to pass. All of them have agreed that it would be a stupid law. I bet most of them would enforce it.

It's incrementalism that is going to allow the equivalent to a gun ban to happen. Sure I'll agree that some cops would reject an order to go door to door forcefully taking peoples guns. But will they object to enforcing the "little bite" type laws that make it harder and harder to be a law abiding gun owner? I doubt many would because we sure have a shitload of the little incremental anti-gun laws on the books right now and I don't see any cops objecting to enforcing them. So next we ban .50s. It's not a total gun ban, we'll enforce it. Then comes a ban on having more than a certain amount of ammo. Not a total ban, sure we'll enforce it. Next, various fees and taxes for just owning guns. Not a total ban, just doing our jobs, enforce it. Where will the line be drawn by the law enforcement community? If they don't object pretty soon we'll all be reduced to single shot .22s, muzzle loaders, and duck shotguns, but it won't be a total ban requiring door to door marches so it'll be OK right?

Thanks to your country's silly insistence on a declining population of used assault rifles (and the SBR regs), it is illegal for me to own my legally owned AR - in your country, but not in the True North, Strong and Free.  This begs a question - If you'd confiscate illegal guns, does that mean you'd also try to confiscate guns exactly like my AR if I were to own it a couple hundred miles to the south, in your antigun police state of a country? (relax, humor... mostly.)

My FAL used to be illegal in your country too.  When my government took it, they first called me a criminal.  When that didn't work out as planned, the crown attorney charged with taking my gun emphasized how dangerous a wimpy .308 semiauto neutered to five shots is.  When I explained that I was in fact trained and licensed to move a mountain or two with the aid of some suitably placed chemical compounds, he stopped concentrating on how dangerous it was for me to have a popgun.  The government then chose to take it without payment.  I'm only too happy to oblige.

Hey, I don't make the laws, I just follow them and have my gun stolen by an unholy synergy of antigun cops, lawyers and politicians.  Sorry, confiscated without compensation - because it's no longer illegal when cops do it.

You can be assured that in the future I will fully cooperate with all law enforcement to the exact extent required by law.

[moon]

Traffic accident?  I didn't see anything.  Must have sneezed or something.

Bank robbery?  Where?

Did I see the suspect?  Well, officer, it happened so quickly, but if I remember correctly I think she's about 6'0, 80 years old, with a purple hat and an orange handbag containing a sawed off shotgun and an extremely large silver dildo.  I'd be happy to work with you on a composite drawing.

Gun cops - earning work-to-rule cooperation, one seizure at a time.

Great Al, and how does calling names add anything to this??

When you get a chance take a look at WI gun laws. Tell me about flash supressors, bayonet lugs, hi-cap mags, assault weapons and what WI law says about them. Why do you suppose WI law is like it is?

If you say "illegal weapon" are you talking about that truck bomb you want to test out? That'll get you arrested, the Mk-19 40mm, again arrested.

Every Amendment to the Constitution has limits. Look at the 1st Amendment, Freedom of Speech. You still can't yell "fire" in a movie theater. You may have to get a permit to hold a large gathering. If you hold a large enough gathereing to "speak" you may be required to provide security, restrooms, or have medical personnel on site.

I support you Right to have AR's, or .50 cals, or a triple barrel shotgun. Unless of course you act irresposibly with them, then the problem is the act not the weapons. I do not support your Right to have a LAW rocker, chemical weapons, or laser guided munitions.

E8ght

Just got back from an early morning trip to the range to zero in my STG-58.  Great shooter.  Wish you guys a few miles to the north of me could also shoot one.

I may sell the gun but I will never let anyone confiscate it from me...NEVER.

If a policeman ever tried to take it from me that would be a very bad day for him and for me.  He would of course win in the end but there would not be much bragging about it around the station house.

Multiply that by 10 to 30 million.

Good grief,  not this subject again.  I don't get on these boards as much as I used to,  but I have been around a long time.  I used to debate these kind of guys, but came to the conclusion that some people just need something or someone to hate.  With some folks it's Jews, blacks or what have you, some folks hate police.  It somehow makes them feel better, or more secure in their manhood. These are the same people that call in false complaints on you and then don't have the balls to leave their name.  Some of them are so "out there" you wonder how they can mingle amongst normal people.        

Next time you read history, believe what you read.  Don't dismiss fact because we live in [i]different"[/i] times! The only instruments by which an authority/government has disarmed people was with it's duly appointed officers/shock troops/deputies, etc.  NO ONE ELSE would or could do that job, but those appointed with authority. YOU!

Even if they fire you cause you have the stomach to say NO, another one will gladly take your place.  Confiscation will happen slowly in the guise of outlawing small features and the requirement of registration.  Don't be fooled, Kalifornia will confiscate all those registered firearms in our lifetime, and LEO's (ALL law enforcement officers, federal , local, military) will serve warrants on those who have refused.




Jaded or not, they need to know that their emotional problem with guns is THEIR problem.  LEO's need to be educated on the 2nd Amendment beyond their simple off duty ownership of "black rifles" at home.  ALL civilian gun owners should be, but LEO's more so.  

I don't know, so why call me a jerk?



What does that have to do with the argument? I'd guess the laws are like that because stupid people allow socialists like Chvala to stay in office. Why do you suppose they are the way they are? Further, do you think there are any cops in Milwaukee who would let me go if they found me packing a concealed handgun? I don't.




I didn't say anything about truck bombs. Why don't you attack the message instead of the messanger? I'm strongly resisting the urge to start calling you names right now. Please stop twisting my words and calling me names just because [i]you[/i] can't argue against what I'm saying.

I'm talking about an illegal small arm. I think I made that pretty clear. Say an M16 manufactured last week. As far as I know I (a non leo) can not own such a thing.



Well goody for you. You support my right to have things that are not banned by the current laws. Does that mean that if you pulled me over and found a sawed off shotgun for which I have no ownership forms, and an M-16 clearly marked "law enforcement only" that you would ignore it?

I'm starting to see a trend here. Rather than addressing the argument at hand the LE people seem to prefer to call names, and associate those who criticize them with terrorists and racists.

Also, just so we're clear here, the reason I'm trying to hammer on this point (cops almost universally enforce the current set of gun laws) is because it suggests to me that they will continue to do so as more and more laws are passed.

I did not mention specific individuals,  nor do I stoop to posting Nazi nonsense. I also do not accuse an entire group of people I have never met of evil nefarious tin-foil-hat garbage based on non-existant evidence, innuendo, and a warped sense of reality. Someone with a warped sense of reality can be defined as a person that goes around with a loaded automatic weapon on the seat beside him hoping to be stopped by the police.  I'm going fishing.  Anybody want to come?  

So why keep harping on the obvious?  The solutions clearly lie in changing the those who write the laws, the laws themselves, and stop trying to "blame the messenger."

How far beyond the existing boundaries of legal behavior are *you* willing to go?  When?  You seem pretty eager to insist that others do so, but are you willing to make that happen now?

So you didn't mention any names---It's pretty clear that you're referring to anyone who would suggest that the police are willing to enforce bogus gun laws. Seems like you are unable to argue with anyone who doesn't agree with you because not agreeing with you makes them "crazy tinfoil hat types".

I vote, and send money to the NRA and (soon) the GOA. I suppose I could do more, but I have to work too--- someone needs to supply welfare checks.

I don't think I'm going to break the law any time soon since doing so without a massive number of cohorts would surely result in my being either shot, tossed in jail, losing all of my guns, or paying all sorts of fines.



I don't think I'm insisting that the cops act illegally. Would it be illegal for a leo to say resign rather than enforce bogus gun laws?


Would a cop really be only a messanger if he cuffs me and tosses me in the back of the car for carrying a "LEO only" M16 around in my car? Saying that the police are only the messangers is a cop out and suggests that you think they are nothing but mindless enforcement robots. "Don't like it that I'm oppressing you, take it up with my boss, I'm only doing my job."

Somebody please lock this thread- it's going exactly nowhere productive, just like it has the other 10,000 times this subject's been posted.

same here,but more like
officer: go fuck yourself sir.

Ok you win. All members of law enforcement are brilliant beacons of patriotism, valiantly upholding the constitution despite pressure from evil law makers.

Goodbye until June.

Yes, I think he is.  That's why they're called law "enforcement"... they don't make the laws, and have no power to do so.  Maybe when you're willing to cross those boundaries, so will they.



"Know your target and beyond."

Al, WI doesn't have any laws about hi-cap mags, flash supressors, bayonet lugs, or anything like AW bans.

It does have an AP ammo prohibition, which seems to be mostly a re-hash of the fed law.

It also has laws outlawing silencers, mgs, and short barrelled weapons. Each of those laws ends with a line saying, unless the federal govt. has licensed you to have one of those, then your good.  

So if you had a "LEO only weapon" I'm not sure a WI cop could enforce that..........I also ain't willing to roll the dice on that personally (I should be "pre-ban OLY-M4gery"). If you have an illegal MG you will have a problem.

Then again, the Constitution notes that the power in this Country comes from "the People" and delegates certain powers and responsibilities to the goverment. "The People" vote for representatives that have the authority
to pass laws. If you don't like the laws point that finger back at you since you are one of "the People".

Another example of why mob rule doesn't work. Organized "mobs" like MMM or HCI are able to get access to lawmakers...............

And you want to blame cops........... I work for an elected official............There's those "People" again............

I could care less what the average Joe has in his basement.  As long as he's not out slinging crack rock with it, who cares!

Sad as I am to say it, I believe that is true. Just look at the nonsense we have seen recently regarding kids in schools.

Now to look for the LEO thread...

No.

After chucking my badge at the Old Man, I'd go home and help my neighbors fill sandbags and load magazines.

P3[pyro][(:)][heavy]