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Link Posted: 3/18/2013 11:45:41 AM EDT
Needs more Hemi

Link Posted: 3/18/2013 11:46:02 AM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:


Did you miss your turn on the interstate and have to turn around on the side of the road?  
Hahaha. Love the anti FJ crowd. Do your research. I did 4 days in death valley. Saw 1 other car. A jeep. Went on all the hairiest trails (More like goat paths). I love jeeps, especially the 4-door rubicons when done up, and I love my FJ. I can, and have taken anything a jeep can handle. A-Track is an amazing option. Mines a manual, full time 4wd. Rear locker. 4.0 v6.

Funny man.


   


Just playing man.    I almost bought one for the wife, but she wanted an explorer.    The only bitch I have with them is the side blind spots.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 11:50:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 11:57:06 AM EDT
To add about the Jeep. If you buy a $100.00 membership from Tread Lightly and be a member for 30 days of more, you can get a Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge for 1% under invoice.

Link

$100 Individual Membership Level
All of the above benefits and
Eligibility to receive the Affiliate Rewards Program Preferred Price (1% below factory invoice) on the purchase or lease of most new Chrysler, Jeep, Ram, Dodge, SRT and FIAT vehicles. The Preferred Price – combined with current incentives – can be up to thousands of dollars off the Manufacture’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP).*
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:00:00 PM EDT
Quoted:
To add about the Jeep. If you buy a $100.00 membership from Tread Lightly and be a member for 30 days of more, you can get a Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge for 1% under invoice.

Link

$100 Individual Membership Level
All of the above benefits and
Eligibility to receive the Affiliate Rewards Program Preferred Price (1% below factory invoice) on the purchase or lease of most new Chrysler, Jeep, Ram, Dodge, SRT and FIAT vehicles. The Preferred Price – combined with current incentives – can be up to thousands of dollars off the Manufacture’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP).*


+1
Forgot about this.   Hell of a deal.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:00:16 PM EDT


lol. I can show you ones the other way. Tires, height, driver, etc. lol.
The blinds spots aren't really noticeable. I heard the same thing when researching mine.
Like I said. I do love jeeps though too.
Here:
I'm pretty sure when he's stuck, and can't move, then all of a sudden comes out like cake, he just turned on the A-Track. I've done the same thing.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:00:42 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
To add about the Jeep. If you buy a $100.00 membership from Tread Lightly and be a member for 30 days of more, you can get a Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge for 1% under invoice.

Link

$100 Individual Membership Level
All of the above benefits and
Eligibility to receive the Affiliate Rewards Program Preferred Price (1% below factory invoice) on the purchase or lease of most new Chrysler, Jeep, Ram, Dodge, SRT and FIAT vehicles. The Preferred Price – combined with current incentives – can be up to thousands of dollars off the Manufacture’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP).*


+1
Forgot about this.   Hell of a deal.


I like this.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:02:47 PM EDT
You already have a Rover, why not upgrade to a Land Cruiser.  Not as capable as a Jeep but far more comfortable, luxurious and roomy (Seats 8).  They tow 8500# and do 0-60 in the low 6 second range so they are plenty peppy.



Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:02:56 PM EDT
Quoted:


lol. I can show you ones the other way. Tires, height, driver, etc. lol.
The blinds spots aren't really noticeable. I heard the same thing when researching mine.
Like I said. I do love jeeps though too.
Here:
I'm pretty sure when he's stuck, and can't move, then all of a sudden comes out like cake, he just turned on the A-Track. I've done the same thing.
http://youtu.be/52967PqEX9w


Tires are a MAJOR factor.    All equal, the FJ and the Wrangler are both great vehicles.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:05:41 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
To add about the Jeep. If you buy a $100.00 membership from Tread Lightly and be a member for 30 days of more, you can get a Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge for 1% under invoice.

Link

$100 Individual Membership Level
All of the above benefits and
Eligibility to receive the Affiliate Rewards Program Preferred Price (1% below factory invoice) on the purchase or lease of most new Chrysler, Jeep, Ram, Dodge, SRT and FIAT vehicles. The Preferred Price – combined with current incentives – can be up to thousands of dollars off the Manufacture’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP).*


+1
Forgot about this.   Hell of a deal.


I like this.


Something I found during my search for my next vehicle (JKU one of these days ). Seems like a lot of people don't know about that discount. I will gladly pay $100 for a possible few thousand off a vehicle price and no haggling involved..

Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:06:59 PM EDT
The Jeep Wrangler is getting a 'refresh' for the 2014-15 models.  This should include a Diesel engine, the same as going in the Diesel Ram 1500s.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:10:02 PM EDT
Quoted:
The Jeep Wrangler is getting a 'refresh' for the 2014-15 models.  This should include a Diesel engine, the same as going in the Diesel Ram 1500s.


I would not hold your breath.   I think the Grand Cherokee is going to get a diesel though.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:10:19 PM EDT
Love mine...
[/URL][/img]
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:11:08 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Jeep Wrangler is getting a 'refresh' for the 2014-15 models.  This should include a Diesel engine, the same as going in the Diesel Ram 1500s.


I would not hold your breath.


I am, they've publicly stated that if the diesel Grand Cherokee and Ram are successful, the diesel Wrangler will happen.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:12:48 PM EDT
Quoted:
The Jeep Wrangler is getting a 'refresh' for the 2014-15 models.  This should include a Diesel engine, the same as going in the Diesel Ram 1500s.


2015-16 or later from what I'm seeing online and who knows how much more that diesel will be. Let alone what Wrangler platform you need to buy to get it.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:14:23 PM EDT
Quoted:
This is my daily driver. I've had it for 3 years and about 70k miles. I regularly drive it on road trips and to a hunting lease in Texas (an 11 hour drive).
I have 2 kids ages 11 and 6 and have no issues lugging them and all of their sports gear around town. My Jeep has never been in the shop and I do all scheduled maintenance on time.

All that being said I have modified this vehicle quite a bit to make it a better daily driver. The most important mod is the gears. I replaced the factory 3:73s with 5:13s. I felt that the factory gears were terrible for highway driving, the 5:13s are just fine.

All in all I love my Jeep and plan to continue to use it as my daily driver, I have no complaints.

YMMV.

PS...

If you hang heavy bumpers and lights on your Jeep and run 35" tires your gas mileage WILL suck.



http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/kevinnagle/Jeep.jpg


Wow.  Nice.  I haven't noticed the replacement fender flares before.  That is really an eyesore in my opinion.  The new models look fat and bulgy, full of that horrendous grey/black plastic.  Same with the Toyota FJ above.  Too much terrible plastic.  Yours, on the other hand, looks fantastic.  


(This coming from a K5 owner, steel is real )
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:14:55 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Jeep Wrangler is getting a 'refresh' for the 2014-15 models.  This should include a Diesel engine, the same as going in the Diesel Ram 1500s.


2015-16 or later from what I'm seeing online and who knows how much more that diesel will be. Let alone what Wrangler platform you need to buy to get it.


The fully loaded grand Cherokees with a hemi run 80K don't they?
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:15:15 PM EDT
3rd row?  Get a Suburban, Tahoe, Sequoia, Armada...
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:18:25 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is my daily driver. I've had it for 3 years and about 70k miles. I regularly drive it on road trips and to a hunting lease in Texas (an 11 hour drive).
I have 2 kids ages 11 and 6 and have no issues lugging them and all of their sports gear around town. My Jeep has never been in the shop and I do all scheduled maintenance on time.

All that being said I have modified this vehicle quite a bit to make it a better daily driver. The most important mod is the gears. I replaced the factory 3:73s with 5:13s. I felt that the factory gears were terrible for highway driving, the 5:13s are just fine.

All in all I love my Jeep and plan to continue to use it as my daily driver, I have no complaints.

YMMV.

PS...

If you hang heavy bumpers and lights on your Jeep and run 35" tires your gas mileage WILL suck.



http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/kevinnagle/Jeep.jpg


Wow.  Nice.  I haven't noticed the replacement fender flares before.  That is really an eyesore in my opinion.  The new models look fat and bulgy, full of that horrendous grey/black plastic.  Same with the Toyota FJ above.  Too much terrible plastic.  Yours, on the other hand, looks fantastic.  


(This coming from a K5 owner, steel is real )


The stock fenders are a weakness.    One of my friends lost one rear fender, and another lost both rear fenders at mudfest on Saturday.

Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:18:59 PM EDT



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

To add about the Jeep. If you buy a $100.00 membership from Tread Lightly and be a member for 30 days of more, you can get a Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge for 1% under invoice.



Link



$100 Individual Membership Level

All of the above benefits and

Eligibility to receive the Affiliate Rewards Program Preferred Price (1% below factory invoice) on the purchase or lease of most new Chrysler, Jeep, Ram, Dodge, SRT and FIAT vehicles. The Preferred Price – combined with current incentives – can be up to thousands of dollars off the Manufacture’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP).*




+1

Forgot about this.   Hell of a deal.




I like this.




Something I found during my search for my next vehicle (JKU one of these days ). Seems like a lot of people don't know about that discount. I will gladly pay $100 for a possible few thousand off a vehicle price and no haggling involved..





If you don't want to haggle (or even if you do, it's great to have in your back pocket as a "well..fine...give me this deal"), you can get a better deal at a big dealership if you're willing to haggle. My JKUR, 6 speed, soft top was $30,056.
 
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:20:52 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Jeep Wrangler is getting a 'refresh' for the 2014-15 models.  This should include a Diesel engine, the same as going in the Diesel Ram 1500s.


2015-16 or later from what I'm seeing online and who knows how much more that diesel will be. Let alone what Wrangler platform you need to buy to get it.


Based on diesel Wrangler availability worldwide, the diesel will be available in every model except the Rubicon (the front Dana 44 probably doesn't jive with the added weight/displacement of a diesel).

I have a sneaky hunch that the US-spec diesel will be available in the Rubicon though, American consumers tend to be option-happy and it pays to have more options available in the higher-end models.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:23:47 PM EDT
Quoted:
The stock fenders are a weakness.    One of my friends lost one rear fender, and another lost both rear fenders at mudfest on Saturday.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/62740_2974701463192_322219386_n.jpg


Wow.  Will not buff out.  

I just don't care for the almost cartoonish proportion of the stock flares.  Reminds me of how the Avalanche used to come all decked out in gray plastic, slowly turning white and shitty looking.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:24:03 PM EDT
Quoted:
Gotta love the folks that cannot read the thread titles, OP wanted to know about he Unlimited, not whatever the fuck you think he should drive instead.


OP my brother has had an Unlimited for three years now and loves the hell out of it. Daily driver, towing a wave runner or off roading, mudding.

He likes it so much it is the reason I am getting my wife one through AAFES.


I laughed my ass off when I read your post.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:27:35 PM EDT
I'm never going to be okay with a Wrangler having 4 doors.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:29:52 PM EDT
Quoted:
I'm never going to be okay with a Wrangler having 4 doors.


You can take them off.  
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:32:10 PM EDT
I've got a '12 four door Rubi it pulls my 18.5ft boat without a problem. It's got the new engine in it, so that's why it pulls nice. For off roading forget about it, it's a Jeep the gas milage isn't the greatest about 17-18 but I didn't buy it for that. If you get one you'll love it.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:38:58 PM EDT
Toyota 4Runner Trail Edition.

Seating, comfort, Offroad capability.

Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:49:51 PM EDT
It's alright but it eats tires and gas like crazy.  If you are using it for anything other than a bug-out or off-road vehicle I think you're wasting your time.  

I have a 2010 Jeep Wranger 4 door, lifted 4 inches with motor upgrades, gear changes, rancho suspension, heavy duty winch, and rear hauling bar, heavy diff covers etc.. a lot done to it.

Nice vehicles! just not made for urban living.

Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:51:00 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Jeep Wrangler is getting a 'refresh' for the 2014-15 models.  This should include a Diesel engine, the same as going in the Diesel Ram 1500s.


2015-16 or later from what I'm seeing online and who knows how much more that diesel will be. Let alone what Wrangler platform you need to buy to get it.


The fully loaded grand Cherokees with a hemi run 80K don't they?


Just built one for 70k with all the options.

Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:56:09 PM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:

Something I found during my search for my next vehicle (JKU one of these days ). Seems like a lot of people don't know about that discount. I will gladly pay $100 for a possible few thousand off a vehicle price and no haggling involved..


If you don't want to haggle (or even if you do, it's great to have in your back pocket as a "well..fine...give me this deal"), you can get a better deal at a big dealership if you're willing to haggle. My JKUR, 6 speed, soft top was $30,056.


 


I will haggle when it's time to come to buy mine. Just saying with the Tread Lightly discount, you're probably not going to get much lower, unless your looking at an in stock  and they want it gone. You can also look at the NRA member discount program and TrueCar as well. If I'm going to spend that much on a vehicle, it will be built the way I want it and all the options I want. I want the hard top and auto. ( bad knees, so manual is out )

Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:58:17 PM EDT
Quoted:
It's alright but it eats tires and gas like crazy.  If you are using it for anything other than a bug-out or off-road vehicle I think you're wasting your time.  

I have a 2010 Jeep Wranger 4 door, lifted 4 inches with motor upgrades, gear changes, rancho suspension, heavy duty winch, and rear hauling bar, heavy diff covers etc.. a lot done to it.

Nice vehicles! just not made for urban living.




Well with all that added weight and changes, you can expect it to drink a bit more.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 12:59:12 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's alright but it eats tires and gas like crazy.  If you are using it for anything other than a bug-out or off-road vehicle I think you're wasting your time.  

I have a 2010 Jeep Wranger 4 door, lifted 4 inches with motor upgrades, gear changes, rancho suspension, heavy duty winch, and rear hauling bar, heavy diff covers etc.. a lot done to it.

Nice vehicles! just not made for urban living.




Well with all that added weight and changes, you can expect it to drink a bit more.


I wasn't complaining.  Just stating the facts.  It gets 16 mpg fwiw.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:12:24 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's alright but it eats tires and gas like crazy.  If you are using it for anything other than a bug-out or off-road vehicle I think you're wasting your time.  

I have a 2010 Jeep Wranger 4 door, lifted 4 inches with motor upgrades, gear changes, rancho suspension, heavy duty winch, and rear hauling bar, heavy diff covers etc.. a lot done to it.

Nice vehicles! just not made for urban living.




Well with all that added weight and changes, you can expect it to drink a bit more.


I wasn't complaining.  Just stating the facts.  It gets 16 mpg fwiw.


Never said you were. 16 MPG isn't too bad. How much weight do you think you added to it? I plan on minor changes. Nothing too much, as I will do some trails. Nothing major like rock crawling etc...

Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:18:17 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's alright but it eats tires and gas like crazy.  If you are using it for anything other than a bug-out or off-road vehicle I think you're wasting your time.  

I have a 2010 Jeep Wranger 4 door, lifted 4 inches with motor upgrades, gear changes, rancho suspension, heavy duty winch, and rear hauling bar, heavy diff covers etc.. a lot done to it.

Nice vehicles! just not made for urban living.




Well with all that added weight and changes, you can expect it to drink a bit more.


I wasn't complaining.  Just stating the facts.  It gets 16 mpg fwiw.


Never said you were. 16 MPG isn't too bad. How much weight do you think you added to it? I plan on minor changes. Nothing too much, as I will do some trails. Nothing major like rock crawling etc...



No sweat.  It probably has a good 400-500 pounds added to it.  I think most of that weight comes from the rear tow bar and oversize tires.  It's really nice to have when the weather is bad!
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:26:10 PM EDT
Quoted:


No sweat.  It probably has a good 400-500 pounds added to it.  I think most of that weight comes from the rear tow bar and oversize tires.  It's really nice to have when the weather is bad!



For tires, are you using aggressive off road all the time for on road driving? Or are you using on/off road tires?
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:30:54 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:


No sweat.  It probably has a good 400-500 pounds added to it.  I think most of that weight comes from the rear tow bar and oversize tires.  It's really nice to have when the weather is bad!



For tires, are you using aggressive off road all the time for on road driving? Or are you using on/off road tires?


get duratracs or bfg t/a km2's ...simple as that, the tougher question is load range and size....what's you use for this primarily? you could always go with a full on mud tire but i find the at's are good for almost anything.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:34:29 PM EDT
4runner
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:35:32 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:


No sweat.  It probably has a good 400-500 pounds added to it.  I think most of that weight comes from the rear tow bar and oversize tires.  It's really nice to have when the weather is bad!



For tires, are you using aggressive off road all the time for on road driving? Or are you using on/off road tires?


I'm running on/off road tires, somewhat of an in between.  They do no one thing particularly well but I can squash 30k out of them without an issue.  They are surprisingly quiet on the expressway.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:35:49 PM EDT
I bought a manual hardtop '13 JKU Sport in September. Paid a little more than I should have. I've got about 10k miles on it now. Just got back from a 1200 mile road trip yesterday, and I've had it out for some moderate off-roading and in the snow a few times. I love it, does exactly what I ask of it. It's got enough room, mileage averages around 18 mpg, acceleration with the new engine, 3.73 and the stick is good, goes anywhere I point it, rides fine. No complaints about comfort or wind noise. Bought a soft top off a buddy that I'll be putting on when the weather heats up. I haven't really done any mods besides some lights, have a height issue with the garage where I'll be keeping it so I can't really do a lift or tires.

I couldn't imagine a third row seat would be safe or comfortable to ride in or get in to, but I have zero complaints and wouldn't hesitate to use it to haul three buddies around with their junk for a weekend camping or a range trip.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:38:52 PM EDT
Quoted:
4runner


agree.......

this is why you buy toyota

[youtube]http://www.ebaumsworld.com/media/embed/82641746[/youtube]

4runner ownage
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:39:34 PM EDT
Quoted:
I bought a manual hardtop '13 JKU Sport in September. Paid a little more than I should have. I've got about 10k miles on it now. Just got back from a 1200 mile road trip yesterday, and I've had it out for some moderate off-roading and in the snow a few times. I love it, does exactly what I ask of it. It's got enough room, mileage averages around 18 mpg, acceleration with the new engine, 3.73 and the stick is good, goes anywhere I point it, rides fine. No complaints about comfort or wind noise. Bought a soft top off a buddy that I'll be putting on when the weather heats up. I haven't really done any mods besides some lights, have a height issue with the garage where I'll be keeping it so I can't really do a lift or tires.

I couldn't imagine a third row seat would be safe or comfortable to ride in or get in to, but I have zero complaints and wouldn't hesitate to use it to haul three buddies around with their junk for a weekend camping or a range trip.



Same boat as you with the height issue or I'd be looking at a Z71
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:41:38 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


No sweat.  It probably has a good 400-500 pounds added to it.  I think most of that weight comes from the rear tow bar and oversize tires.  It's really nice to have when the weather is bad!



For tires, are you using aggressive off road all the time for on road driving? Or are you using on/off road tires?


I'm running on/off road tires, somewhat of an in between.  They do no one thing particularly well but I can squash 30k out of them without an issue.  They are surprisingly quiet on the expressway.


I drive about 5k miles a year currently, so tires would last me a bit. Once I do get the Jeep, I do plan on a few road trips as well.

Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:43:01 PM EDT
J ust
E mpty
E very
P ocket....

Real jeeps are built not bought.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:43:55 PM EDT
Quoted:
I'm never going to be okay with a Wrangler having 4 doors.


Mine only has 2...except in the summer when it goes to zero most of the time.

Nick

Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:47:36 PM EDT
just get the jeep. easier to work on, easier to lift, ton of aftermarket.
when was the last time you saw a new land cruiser on 35"+ tires?
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:50:59 PM EDT
Quoted:
I'm never going to be okay with a Wrangler having 4 doors.


its the absolutely best thing ever.
Who enjoyed moving the passenger seat forward and crawling into the back then having to re-adjust the seat? Noone.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:51:53 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
The stock fenders are a weakness.    One of my friends lost one rear fender, and another lost both rear fenders at mudfest on Saturday.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/62740_2974701463192_322219386_n.jpg


Wow.  Will not buff out.  

I just don't care for the almost cartoonish proportion of the stock flares.  Reminds me of how the Avalanche used to come all decked out in gray plastic, slowly turning white and shitty looking.


That's a $100 part. I won't say "who cares" but at least it ain't a $400 part before painting.
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 1:56:29 PM EDT
Quoted:
just get the jeep. easier to work on, easier to lift, ton of aftermarket.
when was the last time you saw a new land cruiser on 35"+ tires?


yes because 35 inch tires are so functional and useful.....you can do plenty with a good solid lift and good size tires, if you want a SHTF car you build an overlander not a rock crawler....

i don't get the 35's thing, kills gas mileage like nothing, and you only gain like an inch over a 33" which usually doesn't even require gearing on my platforms....

again though it really depends on op's uses and where he's running....


Link Posted: 3/18/2013 2:02:00 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


No sweat.  It probably has a good 400-500 pounds added to it.  I think most of that weight comes from the rear tow bar and oversize tires.  It's really nice to have when the weather is bad!



For tires, are you using aggressive off road all the time for on road driving? Or are you using on/off road tires?


I'm running on/off road tires, somewhat of an in between.  They do no one thing particularly well but I can squash 30k out of them without an issue.  They are surprisingly quiet on the expressway.


I drive about 5k miles a year currently, so tires would last me a bit. Once I do get the Jeep, I do plan on a few road trips as well.



Very cool! I hope you have a blast!
Link Posted: 3/18/2013 2:21:11 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The stock fenders are a weakness.    One of my friends lost one rear fender, and another lost both rear fenders at mudfest on Saturday.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/62740_2974701463192_322219386_n.jpg


Wow.  Will not buff out.  

I just don't care for the almost cartoonish proportion of the stock flares.  Reminds me of how the Avalanche used to come all decked out in gray plastic, slowly turning white and shitty looking.


That's a $100 part. I won't say "who cares" but at least it ain't a $400 part before painting.


The guy that lost both rear fenders was kinda happy about it.   He said it saved him the trouble of removing them for aftermarket fenders.
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