Between that, earthquakes, our politicians, and the occasional "civil disturbance", you'd wonder why everybody keeps moving here?  Please let the word out:  

IT'S DANGEROUS IN CALIFORNIA!  DO NOT MOVE HERE!  STAY HOME!!  IT'S HORRIBLE HERE!!




Look again- Jews are amazingly resilient.

[url]http://www.joyfulnoise.net/JoyAlaska5.html[/url]

Boomer, give the Jews a few million US and they can turn California into Jewrassic Park. Israel did nothing without the direct help of the USA, and nothing that anyone else with that money couldnt have done.

Personnaly, I think DEBKA is better! It's less biased and more factual! [:P]

DaMan

As far as I am concerned, Israel is a liability.

A liability, in that we are sending BILLIONS over there to subsidize their socialist
psuedo democracy. (public records can confirm)

We need to keep that money at home, and supply our troops with the equipement to train and  fight.

And until someone gets some declassified US documents on the USS Liberty incident, or for that matter, any incidents involving that parasite state, NOBODY knows what the hell went down. So enough with the media rhetoric.

News media is heavily biased towards Israel, so they aint credible.

Waterdog

Scarecrow:

I couldn't agree more with your first post. The Zionists have brought nothing but death and dispair to others and themselves since the Balflour Declaration of 1917. I hope the day will come when Israel no longer exists. And they can take the Palistinians to hell with them.  

[u]That[/u], quite frankly, [b]Scarecrow[/b] is pure unadulterated Bullsh|t. It is, IMHO, a bald-faced lie to say that you have no 'anger' towards the Jews, when everything that you say about them (e.g. Jewreal) reeks of hatred.

What have the Jews ever done to you personally that makes you despise them so much?

Murdering the Saviour? Using Gentile children in blood feasts? What?

And don't tell us that it's [u]Israel[/u] that you dislike so, since you've consistently used the word 'Jews' over and over again like a curse word or something.

So how did you get banned from this Board in the first place? Did it have anything to do with Jews?

Meanwhile, back on Page 1 of this thread I asked if anyone knew the names of the pilot that Israel jailed for refusing to fire on the USS Liberty, as well as the name of the Israeli fellow who confirmed the story.

I have been interested in the USS Liberty since the 1967 Six Day War. I had first thought that the attack was deliberate and then, after reviewing the facts and what we knew way back then, I became convinced it was indeed a mistake!

I read James Ennes book 'Assault on the Liberty' when it first came out in 1979. By that time I had been convinced that the attack was unintentional, but I was willing to give Ennes a shot at convincing me.

Needless to say, his account was very moving, but some of the answers that he gave for the reasons for such an attack were unsatisfactory to say the least.

When I heard in [b]1993[/b], that Ennes had found an Israeli pilot that was part of the original attacking force on the USS Liberty and that he had agreed to talk, well, let's just say that I've been waiting ever since for this pilot's name, rank, aircraft number, anything that could pin this story down.

So I get a bit upset when someone says 'A new source has come forward, it's an Israeli pilot!' I've been waiting almost 10 years for a pilot that will never come forward, simply because he doesn't exist.

I am certain that some Israeli pilot will die at some point in the future and the USS Liberty website will say 'that was the fellow!'
When no questions can be asked or answered!

When two competing explanations of the same event are present, and one explanation requires that people act against common sense and good judgment, and the other explanation requires only that people act blindly in the fog of war, I believe that the only credible choice is to assume that the latter reason is the correct reason.

[b]To accept the explanation that Israel risked everything to sink a ship that wasn't even spying on them is simply incredulous![/b]

- continued -

And every explanation that has ever been offered as plausible and reasonable grounds for believing in the deliberateness of the attack is utterly without substance or foundation.

We've been told Israel attacked to stop the spying on it. There was no spying.

We've been told that Israel attacked to keep its secret plans to attack Syria and the Golan Heights from Washington's knowledge. Johnson Administration officials were informed and were agreeable ahead of time for Israel's justifiable attack on the Golan Heights.

We've been told lately that Israel attacked to keep its mass murder of Egyptian POWs secret from the world and prying US eyes. There were never any such mass murders to shield from the US, and what balderdash to assume that while the US may have screamed to high heavens about the massacre of [u]Egyptian[/u] soldiers, it would [u]not[/u] have screamed any louder about the massacre of [u]American[/u] sailors!

There is a nice review of James Ennes' book in the very same website that Scarecrow cited on the first page of this thread.

Go to:[url]http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/042186/860421011.html[/url] and see what the reviewer thinks of the problems in figuring out who is correct in this debate!

Eric The(Tireless)Hun[>]:)]

EricTheHun, Quite frankly I seen Jesred make everything you said in a previous post bullsh!t. I have done more to show that Jewrael did what they did on purpose then you have to prove me wrong. Just because us normal people can't figure out what the reason might be, doesnt mean there isnt one.

You people want to underline racism on my part to avoid having to deal with what is put infront of you. You think that saying I am a racist makes the spies stealling information from your government OK.

Maybe your forgetting one thing, your government, as mine refused to accept deported Jews from Nazi Germany, giving Hitler the impression that since no one wants them they must be hated everywhere and you pretty much gave him the go ahead to put them into the gas chambers.

We can stay on here all day and speak of racist dribble and reduce this entire thread into a neo nazi white power monster or we can face the facts.

The fact is that your tax dollars are going to a useless country that quite frankly is having a negative effect on the image of the USA, driving oil prices up, and making it harder to get the permission of other countries in the region to help the war on terrorism.

what eric said

Eric have you atleast completely read the links you have posted? They dont look particularly good for either Israel or the USA.

[b]Oh, Kar98 - yoo-hoo? Are you here?[/b]

I was looking at the photos you posted of that kind and unarmed Palestinian chap who was shot in the head by the Israeli Border Police.

You know, these photos:
[img]http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/exec.jpg[/img]

When all of a sudden I remember seeing the very same photos on an Israeli website - but with one significant difference - the final shot, which you neglected to include!

These are how the photos actually appeared in the Palestinian press:

[img]http://electronicintifada.net/features/articles/execution/800.jpg[/img]

What was this, some sort of editorial license to post some of the photos and not others?

[b][i]Was fur ein schlechter Mann Du bist! Du sollst beschämt sein![/i][/b]

Here is the photo you left out, along with the original caption which was the [u]Palestinian[/u] version of what happened!

[img]http://www.ccmep.org/hotnews/7.jpg[/img]
'(7) They use a robot to examine the body of the [u]martyr[/u] Mahmoud after they killed him.'

[b]The robot wasn't used to examine the body after this bastard was killed - it was used to remove the f***ing explosive charges in the belt around his stinking body![/b]

This POS was on his way to blow up women and children and you post pictures of how he was executed by the Israelis, as if they just picked him out of thin air.

BTW, his accomplice, the man in the blue shirt was hustled away by the Border Guards. You think if they were all that bloodthirsty, they would have given the 'get away driver' a bit of brain splattering too!

[b]You owe us an explanation for this BS, buddy![/b]

Eric The(Conscientious)Hun[>]:)]

Post from Scarecrow -

Absolutely! My point is that these statements are from someone wholly sympathetic to [u]your[/u] point of view, not mine, and yet he says that...well, you read it too.

He's pretty bumfuzzled by the actions of the US and, to a lesser degree by the Israelis.

How did he put it?

"Apart from the gripping and vivid description of the attack and its aftermath, Assault on the Liberty really boils down to a series of questions which have never been satisfactorily answered by U.S. officials.

* Why was the Liberty sent to the Eastern Mediterranean in the first place? [b][Into a 'war zone', no less - ETH][/b]

* Why was the Joint Chiefs' decision to pull the Liberty back 100 miles from the coast [u]undelivered[/u]? [b][Israel was repeatedly told that there were no US ships at least 100 miles from its coasts - ETH][/b]

* Why was the first F 4 Phantom flight from the aircraft carrier America in aid of the Liberty cancelled at the direct order of Defense Secretary McNamara emphatically backed up by Commander of Naval Operations McDonald?  

* After the Liberty was torpedoed by Israeli PT boats, why was the flight from the aircraft carrier Saratoga cancelled?

* Why was the report of the initial assault handled in such a desultory fashion in Washington? (The Pentagon had the news for 40 minutes before informing Walt Rostow in the White House, who in turn informed President Johnson. The President called for an emergency meeting "within the hour.")

* Why was the Israeli explanation immediately accepted at face value?[b][Cause it was the truth? - ETH][/b]

* Why has the elaborate media cover up which followed on the heels of the assault remained in effect until today? (When the captain of the Liberty was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor, the citation did not even mention that his ship had been attacked by Israel.)

Ennes tentatively ventures answers to these and other questions but admits his deep frustration at their inadequacy. He presents a good hypothetical case for the assault being motivated by Israel's desire to keep the United States in the dark about her imminent attack on the Golan Heights. [b]Yet, even this explanation is unsatisfactory, since it is known that U.N. Ambassador Goldberg in New York delayed consideration of a cease fire until after Israel had captured the Heights, thereby [u]clearly implying that the United States supported Israeli seizure of Syrian territory[/u].[/b]

This reviewer, too, shares the author's frustration, realizing that it's unlikely we'll ever get to know the full story of this affair....

That, my friend, pretty much admits that we will never know the whole truth about this event, but, coming from your side, it is an admission that there is no reasonable grounds for believing the attack to be deliberate!

Eric The(FairAndBalanced)Hun[>]:)]

Well Eric the whole USS Liberty is pretty much the bermuda triangle of discussions. In any case the facts other then the USS liberty have to come into effect when deciding about Israel.

Irael is as wasted money and guns as the Canadian firearms registry.

Yes, [b]Scarecrow[/b], I know this subject has just about killed me over the past 34 years.

And the last USS Liberty thread on this site, which ran ten pages before it got locked, just about drove the finishing nail into my coffin.

Hopefully this thread will die before I do.[:D]

Eric The(OneCanOnlyHope)Hun[>]:)]

Sounds like a capitulation to me. Nothing like having the rug pulled out from under your prime argument, huh?

[b]Boomer[/b], no one, but no one, is ever going to capitulate on the subject of the USS Liberty.

It is the International Version of 'the second gunman on the grassy knoll' in Dallas on that November afternoon, so long, long ago.

The greater the distance between the event and the discussion, the greater the lack of clear cut facts, the greater the lack of objectivity.

We haven't solved all the major discrepancies in the Kennedy Assassination to the complete satisfaction of everyone, and, with the ensuing deaths of witnesses and loss of evidence, it's hardly likely we ever will.

So, too, with the attack on the USS Liberty.

Besides the factual circumstances of both events, people bring their own agendas to the discussion of the JFK Assassination and the attack on the USS Liberty.

To such an extent and degree, that it is certainly arguable that there is simply no way there can be an objective discussion of either event!

Eric The(Historical)Hun[>]:)]

Here's some class "English":  "they [i]seen[/i] the flag"?  Too cool to pay attention, even in grade school?  You're a waste of air.

Go crawl back under your rock.

So, [b]Norm_G[/b], what's your impression of that Israeli Border Police 'execution' scene?

This schmuck's accomplice, the fellow in the blue shirt, is quickly whisked away, but the would-be suicide bomber remains defiantly refusing to release the cord attached to the explosives.

The Border Police, after attempting to talk him into releasing the cord, take the easiest and simplest way out...

They blast him away. Turn out the lights. End of story.

The Palestinian Press should [u]never[/u] have published that last photo, the one showing the anti-bomb robot attempting to grab the coat filled with explosives and drag it away from the now-dead would-be suicide bomber.

It was a mistake that Kar-98 caught and removed for them.

They'll know better next time!

And so will Kar-98.

Eric The(Raging)Hun[>]:)]

WooooHoooo!!! FOOD FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[}:D]

1)  USS Liberty - I never set foot on the USS Liberty but know how it operated and the unique talents of the crew as well as the equipment capabilities.  With just this information I can tell you that the attack if by accident in the beginning would not have been an unknown accident for very long.
As you state no one's position will change and to explain would take far too long.

2)  There was a shooter on the "grassy knoll."  Poorly placed, and ineffectual but one did shoot one shot from there.  Missed completely.

3)  Strangely I do know who killed Kennedy and  why.
As you look back toward the School Book Depository building the effective shooter shot from the second floor window of the building on the right.
Oswald was precisely what he said he was - a patsy.
Has anyone ever heard one Kennedy question the results of the Warren Commission ??  That answer must certainly be no as no Kennedy has ever questioned.
Hard and cruel though this may be, old Joe Kennedy was the cause of Jack's death.  In order to steal the election he gave his word.  Then broke his word and with the wrong people.

Those folks chose to let the old Nazi (Joe Kennedy) live to review his mistake for the rest of his life.  Although the same people had nothing to do with Robert Kennedy's death old Joe's insistence that Jack make Bobby Attorney General and then his instructions to Bobby lead directly to the killing of Jack Kennedy.

(It has often been opined that the CIA and the Secret Service were involved.  Certain individuals from both agencies were involved but not the agencies as a whole.)

Edited to add:  The Mafia as a whole didn't order the hit either.  Certain members did order the killing of Jack Kennedy but the hit was 'NOT' commission approved.

Norm_G, why did you even post in rhis thread at all?

Well, of course, I can't speak for Norm (I always think of "Cheers" when I hear this name...."Noooooorrmmm!!!!!" [:D]  )

But I can tell you what he said in my thread on Israel.

He informed me I was willfully blinded by my own haze of prejudices. Which I appreciate that he took the time to inform me. I set up a eye doctors appt today.  [}:D]

He didn't offer any support for his assertion about me, nor did he debate the discussion points I raised. Just an unsolicited opinion about my "blindness." Like he redirected you back to your "rock." He's all heart - always thinking of others.  [}:D]



In my experience, this is the reaction of those who don't like what they are hearing, but lack the infomation or ability to argue logically against it.

Which isn't to say that Norm isn't a fine fellow. Remember, he had the kindness to inform me of my own willful blindness.  [}:D] I already wear glasses. I don't know if even the eye doctor will have a prescription strong enuf.  [}:D]

Good show EricTheHun!! Now I'd like to see what Kar-98 has to say about this?

Well I have this to say to Norm_G, I might get a few typos but I spent half my school years in a french school and the other half in a english school. Now because of that I have learnt both languages but I sometimes mix words and expressions from my french to my english and vise versa. I'm sorry that I was born in a bilingual province. From now on I will use the spell checker and you can feel better about yourself by thinking that somehow me making a typo makes what I said invalid.[rolleyes]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, Scarecrow, I personally believe that your poor grammar and spelling abilities go hand and hand with, no, make that compliment, your racist, bigoted views. A reasonably well educated racist or bigot isn't often found, and you sure aren't the exception.

Take it from somebody who knows what he's talking about: being fluent in more than one language does by no means justify bad grammar or spelling.

Funny how you like to stick up for Jesred you both apart of the same group? [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/hitler.gif [/img] Or are you just one in the same?

I was just posting the url for this guy nothing else Daman.[xx(]

OK, tayous1, I forgive you!  But, you still need to [b]beat your boots[/b]!!

DaMan

Boomer, yeah Canada is a racist filled place! We have people burning crosses and running around wearing white sheets! Oh wait! That doesn't happen in Canada. There is no Aryan movement in Canada. There isn't even special names for black people, not even "African Canadian", where just all Canadian.

Kar98, are you me? Did you go thru the same exact schooling as me? First off, even the best writers of our time have their work corrected from grammatical errors before publication, I don't. I don't spend every moment on this board going thru every word I type making sure you grammar police feel happy.

I dare anyone to go thru what I did and type on this board without the spell check and type as good as me.

And what all of you are trying to avoid is simply laid out in my first post. Either deal with it or go e-mail a mod for my violation of the non existent typo rule.

DaMan

Are we to assume, [b]DaMan[/b], that your re-posting of [b]Scarecrow's[/b] post, without comment, is your adoption of his views as your own?

Eric The(Inquisitive)Hun[>]:)]

Well, you grew up in Canada, I in East Germany, so we both know how life, and school in particular, are in communist countries :)



The bet's on.



It's OK, you don't have to justify yourself, you're part French after all, I understand. Don't feel too bad about it.

Kar98, I see you adopted the communist ability to avoid the topics.

And which topic of yours, pray tell, did I avoid?

PS: Don't call /me/ a communist. Ever.

This one:





One can adopt certain aspects of communism before being communist, example the US government.

By the way I have a two friends, one from east and one from west Germany, great folks.

[url]http://www.frontpagemag.com/horowitzsnotepad/2002/hn03-15-02.htm[/url]

That is typical Islamic Arabic feelings towards the West.  Compare and contrast to the general feeling of the people of Israel.  The only time they have been lock-step anti_american was in 1990 when they were getting SCUD attacks and were told to sit tight.

You anti-Israel idiots would rather stand alone?  Its much better to have an ally in the region that we can trust.

Are you willing to put up with the Islamic conversion?  No more Hooters, Playboy or beer?

Last time I checked, I was able to buy pork roast in a Jewish food store, in downtown Haifa.  Never could find any pork in Saudi Arabia...which religion is more tolerant????

Keith_J are you talking about this crap?!!  An "e-mail" from someone Mr. David Horowitz claims is a Saudi? There are some Israel Firsters who think we should hate the Saudis.  I think Mr. Horowitz is one of those .... and you've been duped by his crap!
------------------------------------------------
[size=4]A Disturbing Letter from a Saudi[/size=4]
FrontPageMagazine.com | March 15, 2002


I RECEIVED the following email from someone describing himself as a "Saudi Citizen." I have no way of knowing whether it is [b]authentic[/b], but its particulars seem accurate to me and I invite readers of FrontPage to comment.

--David Horowitz
------------------------------------------------

Even if it were [b]authentic[/b]..... so what!   OR .....Should we invade and destroy  Saudi Arabia based on this "e-mail" that Mr. David Horowitz "received"?

DaMan