Are we talking about buying shitboxes or living reasonably within my means?



I mean, what am I working for if that's the case? I could just rent a room for $50/wk and drive a 1985 Ford Escort...





save all my money up to pad the casket, right?



Makes no sense. You work to have decent things, a nice car, a nice house...

that doesn't mean you should piss away all your money buying new Porsches and trading them in every 6 months though.
 

You clarified it a little bit here, without even realizing it.  If the car is owned by a business, IF it can be depreciated off your taxes, it's a "investment"  



 

Depends what your buying.  I bought my new truck for only $1-2K over what used ones were selling at dealers and private party.

Exactly, and neither is buying a house!

If you plan to be content with what you have who gives a damn about what happens to the value...honestly?

The people who whine and moan about "the value has gone down" are the kind getting themselves screwed because they cant stop buying the next best thing every other year.

you should always approach car buying with the attitude that you will drive it 'till the wheels fall off...

i couldn't amagine buying a new car with all the nice used cars that are going really cheap right now

No, I'm behind you 100%. But to the extent that the car is nicer than what is required to get you back and forth to work, it's no longer an investment. It's just a nice car. Past a certain point, the car becomes a luxury item that costs you money. In exchange you get some happiness, but the fact is, judged as an investment, it's a SHITTY one.



My whole point has been, if you want a new car, then go buy one. New cars kick ass. Just stop calling it an investment, because it isn't.





 

Yes.  ROI.  You did an excellent job discerning my intended meaning by using the clues provided in the context of the sentence.  
Calling a POV an "Investment" is exactly the same type of mental gymnastics that we engage in when we call our guns an "investment"  





This discussion is one of Clintonion semantics.  





Why do people insist on rationalizing everything?       We should just be Proud Capitalistic American Consumers and be done with it.  





Buy it for Pride, Buy it for Looks, Buy it to keep up with the Jonses, Buy it on a Whim.  It really doesn't matter why.  Don't apologize, don't rationalize, don't equivocate. Just Buy.
 

I'm going to go against the flow here.    I purchased my Tacoma new because I wanted a vehicle that I KNEW had been taken care of.    Sure, I could have saved a few grand by purchasing a used one, but then I wouldn't have known how the previous owner tortured it.    Now I can drive it sanely, keep it maintained correctly, etc.     In the long run that buys a lot of peace of mind and to me that was worth the extra couple grand.  

I drove my old Toyota truck for 13 years and I plan on doing the same with this one.   I would still have the other one if it wasn't a 4 cylinder and incapable of pulling my boat.  I simply outgrew it, so to speak, and sold it for 20% of what I paid for it AFTER I drove the wheels off of it.    

It's my money, my call.    In this case it is your money, your call.  

If you are talking about a Dodge good luck. They killed their trade-in/resale value for decades with the 10k off sticker price deals they were doing.

vs buying a 2-3 year old one with the same intention, yes it is.

TXL

I'm with Gonzo on this, and while investment might not be the best word to use, an automobile is certainly an asset, at least for the vast majority of Americans who don't work and shop within walking distance of their homes.

I would think it's fair to say that an automobile makes modern life possible.  Some of us might work 10, 20, or even 50 miles from home.  Due to the nature of the job market, it might not be possible for certain people to work closer to home.  Similarly, most of our shopping may not be local and it's generally not feasible to carry home a month's or even a week's worth of groceries over a distance of several miles.


An analogy would be computers.  A computer is not an investment in the sense that the value of the computer will increase over time.  Quite the contrary, the fair market value of a five year old PC isn't much.  A ten year old PC probably has more value as a museum piece.  However, even thought a business knows that a computer will eventually be worthless, most have at least one PC and some see fit to put them at every desk.  Why?  Because they are an asset that allows the employees to do more.

An automobile allows the average person to do more.  It might mean they can travel a longer distance to a job that pays more than a similar job closer to home.  Or maybe it means they can drive to the XYZ store to buy something rather than pay a premium to have that good delivered to their doorstep.



As for the OP, IMO, for common 'middle-class vehicles' (Accord, Malibu, Cobalt, Sentra, Focus, etc.), it is generally better to buy them slightly used (1-5 years old) than new.  Many vehicles offer manufacturer's warranties longer than the traditional 3/36k, and warranties are available on used vehicles too.  

YMMV.

I'm pretty damn sure that's what has wrecked the finances of millions of families....

Is some cases more.

My car is worth more everyday I own it.

And it's a Chevy.

Lol, GOD NO!



I just said KBB private party in "good condition" is $19k...I don't see a formerly $26k dodge pulling that private party, hell, not even retail



It's a Nissan Frontier.

Dealer Cash (called "retro" or retroactive cash by Nissan) is not publicized, but I worked for the dealership, so i just asked them for it, plus everything else off



The $5k thing was a 2 month retro program to try and dump all the trucks that nobody was buying in the summer of 2008.



Like I said, it was a rare circumstance that relied on a crazy used market/gas prices to put me in that position.





Friends don't let friends buy Chrysler products (except Jeeps)
Speed



 

Do a cost per mile analysis. What you will find is that a new car costs only slightly more than the best used car deal you can find. When compared by mile. Plus you have a nicer vehicle longer.

I post the numbers from time to time.

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If you are really going to drive it for 10 years its really doesnt matter if you by new, model year close out or 2-year lease return. You are going to be so much better off financially than your peers who get a new car every 48-60 months.

The paying cash and driving the same car for 10-years is the important part.

You are omitting safety from your analysis...  After getting hit by a '93 Lincoln Town Car a few years ago, I DO include modern safety features in my criteria for a car.  $25k is cheap compared to a permanently broken body...  You don't need a $60k BMW for above the line safety, but you will likely need something more than a '87 Accord!  This being said, I didn't immediately sell my infrequently used '90s vehicles, but when it's time to replace them, they will be outclassed in the safety department.

It's ironic that on a gun site where some people's lives revolve around being safe and prepared for things with very low probabilities, that having/seeking a safe car is considered uncool and feminine.  It's a much more high risk environment, and fact is, you drive da roads, you takes yo chances...  Might as well better your odds of walking away unscathed.

Your goals are yours.  If your main goal in life is a mcmansion and a BMW have at it.

Mine is to never work again after age 49.  So i buy inexpensive cars and drive them for at least 10 years. As a result i have enough money in savings to pay cash for a mcmansion and a BMW, if i wanted either.

No argument out of me, those are all good reasons to buy a new(er) car. But it's not an investment.



I feel like we're diluting the meaning of the word.





 

A car is a tool - like any other.

When buying a pen - with the objective of using it until the point falls off - I go with a reasonable brand with a cheap price.

Car buying is no different - if done strictly for the usage (ie - no emotions attached).
Buy the cheapest thing that will get the job done (this usually means a car 2-3 years old with low miles).

Depends on the vehicle.  If it will depreciate heavily, buy used and save significant cash.

However, if the vehicle has stupid high resale value, you'd be an idiot to buy used.  For example, ARFCOM's favorite overpriced little pickup truck, the Tacoma:

2007 4cyl 32k mile 4x4

Asking price $21000.  You can get that truck brand new for under $22k.  Even if you talk the used car dealer down a few grand, you're still going to have to replace tires, shocks, and brakes soon and deal with a shorter warranty.

Actually my brother does very good selling cars for more than he bought them for. People just want to please him and will lower the price on the car they sell him, and he is just good at selling the car he is unloading. I am surprised he doesn't do it professionally.

Since I like having a new car, I am willing to buy new and drive it till it drops. I am leery of buying used. If you knew you were only going to be owning a car for 2 years, would you treat it differently? Skip maintenance? Etc.

I do this on almost every car I retire. Doing it professionally requires you to pay taxes. Think about that.

(Poster notice: I do not advocate breaking the law and avoiding taxes, all states have a minimum of cars you have to sell before you are required to get a dealer license, therefore, no breaking of any laws)

Yes.



In that case, buy a 1-2yr used vehicle.



It is ALWAYS a bad idea to buy a NEW car.



 

From a financial perspective, it's generally a bad idea to buy new clothes or eat good food.

It's pretty ironic that after all the photos of cool guns, houses, bikes, vacations or any other luxury item, arfcom claims austierity when it comes to new cars. If people can afford it, let them do it!

I've finally concluded that buying new works for me.  The first three years are normally covered by the factory warranty so my justification for that steep depreciation is that my time isn't taken up by repairs of a used car I thought was gently used.  

New models of reliable manufacturers have the best shot at running trouble-free for the first few years and when they finally do need something done it doesn't bother me as  much as if I bought something used and then had to start repairing it.

I buy new then run 'em 'till the wheels fall off.  Still have a 91 Mazda 323 that runs fine as a "get to work" car.

Been owning and driving cars for 33 years so I've tried all combinations and that's what works for me.

Guns are an appreciating assest, unlike cars. Every gun I've ever sold was for a profit.

Yes, you will get a lot more for the dollar if you get a nice used car.

Buy a car at 75k or 100k. Run it until 200k.

Get half the life, for probably 1/4 the money.

If you have to have a really nice car... At least get one 6 months or a yr old.

The savings are tremendous.

Six months ago when I was looking at cars and small trucks (sub-$20k), buying something that was a few years old wasn't worth it. My camry lasted 16 years / 202k miles, so I assumed a 15 year life expectency on a new vehicle. Buying a three year old car was more than 80% of the new price. In general, the ratio of price to life expectency of the vehicles was practically constant. Factoring in repars vs insurance costs, new vehicles came out cheaper.

Really expensive stuff, like a $50,000 truck, may be different though.