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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:24:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Can I buy stock in Irish Sunglasses prior to the increased rise of Reefer Madness?
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:24:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have news for you. You could give away heroin for free and you would stil have addicts, crime and massive social costs. Addicts do not live productive honest lives. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There will be blood in the streets. Road rage will turn deadly. Simple disagreements will turn into shootouts at the O.K. Corrall. It's going to be like the Old West all over again. I'm quite sure certain folks see this as a win. I see it as nothing will change. You will still have addicts, you will still have crime and it will still cost out the ass. Total deregulation will most assuredly have changes. The price will drop precipitously. And with that so will crime. There will be no more "drug dealers" fighting over turf. They won't have any profit to be made and therefore no power. Costs one hell of a lot less to give a bum a bed than to pay cops to arrest users, and jail them, so that end of the expenditure will decrease as well. It'll never happen, though. Too much money flowing and power retained. I have news for you. You could give away heroin for free and you would stil have addicts, crime and massive social costs. Addicts do not live productive honest lives. Possibly, but at greatly reduced rates. We have already done this experiment. We have the data from before, during and after with regard to use, crime, government expenditures, government intrusion, loss of rights, passing of more laws. Already been done befo. Called alcohol prohibition. It's a well intentioned but misguided mistake. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:26:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Show me where in that post I argued for prohibition. Ever hear of Pavlov's dogs? You just exhibited that behavior. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:26:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What percentage of their crimes are to pay for overly inflated drug prices? Quote HistoryQuoted:
What percentage of their crimes are to pay for overly inflated drug prices? The hardcore addicts will do anything to feed their need...but that isn't the only reason they offend. There are plenty of addicts who are in the system because of drug charges who otherwise are not criminals. I can identify a very small number of people in my area who caught charges solely because they were in possession of a personal use amount. I don't know about the SS part, but I'll lay dollars to donuts that the crime rate would drop significantly. The relief of the monetary burden from the excessive amount of LE to deal with illegal drugs would more than pay for treatment. Hell, it'd probably be cheaper to give the stuff away to those who want it, than to try to keep them from getting it. Free drugs is how some countries are approaching it. I don't like that approach, personally, but that's because I'm disinclined to subsidize other people's lifestyles. Given that most of the time we're already doing that fore the hardcore addicts as it is the point is probably moot. ...but let's be straight about what really happens in the criminal justice system here in the states. Jails are not being stuffed because of personal use amounts of drugs. People aren't getting heavy prison sentences because of personal use amounts of drugs. Massive LE efforts are not being used on personal use amounts of drugs. Their drug charges are usually in the company of other anti-social behavior. LE efforts are not concentrated on users solely for using, at least not in any area I'm familiar with. Perhaps in some locations where it's pretty slow and the cops have nothing better to do. In most areas the cops almost always have something better to do than bust somebody with a dime bag of weed. The crime rate won't drop significantly, nor will the resources spent dealing with the fallout of drug abuse. All that will change is that people responsibly consuming personal use amounts of the stuff will have less to worry about. That's about as good as it's going to get. Legalization of prostitution is much the same thing...it won't really change the dynamics of law enforcement but it will make the people who typically aren't really causing the problems out of the CJ system. Just repeal all drug, gun, vice laws. Do away with 80% or more of welfare services. It'll all sort itself out. There's no way we're doing away with welfare. As I mentioned, some countries who have gone the legalization route have been basically handing out free drugs. People stop by a clinic, get their dose of something like heroin, and then go about their day as normal. I don't particularly like this plan, but it's not like the current plan is working splendidly. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:28:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I tend to agree with the effort...but I think it's naive to believe that you can remove drug addiction from the criminal justice system. Addicts will always be a problem, because addicts tend to commit lots of other crimes besides just drugs. I'm pretty much in favor of legalization but there it's not going to cause a significant drop in crime or the costs of social services. I disagree. Legalization would result in reduced prices, reducing the likelihood of users to commit crimes to get drugs. Quick research suggests that cocaine retails in the US for about $169 per gram, in Portugal for about $61 per gram, and in Bolivia $3.50 per gram. That's retail. (And that's from hitting a couple of sites on a Google search for "cocaine prices.") Heroin in the US is $110 - 450 per gram (a wide spread; its recent surge in popularity probably means the price is toward the low end); Portugal $47; Cambodia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Kenya $1.90 - $5 per gram. The price increase for retail (these are street prices) from producing countries to the US is about 4800% for cocaine and about 5500% for heroin. From producing countries to Portugal (which has a relaxed drug regime but not outright legalization) the increases are about 1700% and 2300%, respectively. IMO, full legalization, regularization, and industrialization of the trade would drive prices lower. If drugs were legalized, I suspect that crimes would be committed to obtain drug money pretty much as they are committed to get beer money - not much. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:28:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have news for you. You could give away heroin for free and you would stil have addicts, crime and massive social costs. Addicts do not live productive honest lives. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There will be blood in the streets. Road rage will turn deadly. Simple disagreements will turn into shootouts at the O.K. Corrall. It's going to be like the Old West all over again. I'm quite sure certain folks see this as a win. I see it as nothing will change. You will still have addicts, you will still have crime and it will still cost out the ass. Total deregulation will most assuredly have changes. The price will drop precipitously. And with that so will crime. There will be no more "drug dealers" fighting over turf. They won't have any profit to be made and therefore no power. Costs one hell of a lot less to give a bum a bed than to pay cops to arrest users, and jail them, so that end of the expenditure will decrease as well. It'll never happen, though. Too much money flowing and power retained. I have news for you. You could give away heroin for free and you would stil have addicts, crime and massive social costs. Addicts do not live productive honest lives. Alcoholics don't either. What's your point? |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:29:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I predict that they hardly notice. This. Prohibition has never worked. It can't because believe it or not, people will actually break the law to get what they want. I predict there will be a short term bump in drug use then everything will settle back to whatever it is today. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:29:56 PM EDT
[#8]
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I can identify a very small number of people in my area who caught charges solely because they were in possession of a personal use amount. Like, two digits small. That is a myth used by the left to push their agenda. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:30:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like, two digits small. So, 99%?  |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:31:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the US needs to subsidize drugs in like a free crack house or hospital environment. look if you're going to do meth have a couple pounds of it no need to break into foreclosed homes and cause thousands in damage to steal $4 dollars of copper. allow them to completely check out of life. You're talking about hard core addicts...and there's no way a government program is going to give them an unlimited supply of drugs to blitz themselves to death. The free drugs programs I have looked at have a maximum amount they hand out to users and for many that's more than sufficient for them. For some it won't be. I don't particularly care if someone wants to kill themselves with meth, but there's no way our society is going to give them a room and a bag of meth and say "Try not to make too much of a mess, bro." |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:31:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have news for you. You could give away heroin for free and you would stil have addicts, crime and massive social costs. Addicts do not live productive honest lives. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There will be blood in the streets. Road rage will turn deadly. Simple disagreements will turn into shootouts at the O.K. Corrall. It's going to be like the Old West all over again. I'm quite sure certain folks see this as a win. I see it as nothing will change. You will still have addicts, you will still have crime and it will still cost out the ass. Total deregulation will most assuredly have changes. The price will drop precipitously. And with that so will crime. There will be no more "drug dealers" fighting over turf. They won't have any profit to be made and therefore no power. Costs one hell of a lot less to give a bum a bed than to pay cops to arrest users, and jail them, so that end of the expenditure will decrease as well. It'll never happen, though. Too much money flowing and power retained. I have news for you. You could give away heroin for free and you would stil have addicts, crime and massive social costs. Addicts do not live productive honest lives. Take Philip Seymour Hoffman, for example. Bastard never could hold a job. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:32:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The hardcore addicts will do anything to feed their need...but that isn't the only reason they offend. I can identify a very small number of people in my area who caught charges solely because they were in possession of a personal use amount. Free drugs is how some countries are approaching it. I don't like that approach, personally, but that's because I'm disinclined to subsidize other people's lifestyles. Given that most of the time we're already doing that fore the hardcore addicts as it is the point is probably moot. ...but let's be straight about what really happens in the criminal justice system here in the states. Jails are not being stuffed because of personal use amounts of drugs. People aren't getting heavy prison sentences because of personal use amounts of drugs. Massive LE efforts are not being used on personal use amounts of drugs. Their drug charges are usually in the company of other anti-social behavior. LE efforts are not concentrated on users solely for using, at least not in any area I'm familiar with. Perhaps in some locations where it's pretty slow and the cops have nothing better to do. In most areas the cops almost always have something better to do than bust somebody with a dime bag of weed. The crime rate won't drop significantly, nor will the resources spent dealing with the fallout of drug abuse. All that will change is that people responsibly consuming personal use amounts of the stuff will have less to worry about. That's about as good as it's going to get. Legalization of prostitution is much the same thing...it won't really change the dynamics of law enforcement but it will make the people who typically aren't really causing the problems out of the CJ system. There's no way we're doing away with welfare. As I mentioned, some countries who have gone the legalization route have been basically handing out free drugs. People stop by a clinic, get their dose of something like heroin, and then go about their day as normal. I don't particularly like this plan, but it's not like the current plan is working splendidly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What percentage of their crimes are to pay for overly inflated drug prices? The hardcore addicts will do anything to feed their need...but that isn't the only reason they offend. There are plenty of addicts who are in the system because of drug charges who otherwise are not criminals. I can identify a very small number of people in my area who caught charges solely because they were in possession of a personal use amount. I don't know about the SS part, but I'll lay dollars to donuts that the crime rate would drop significantly. The relief of the monetary burden from the excessive amount of LE to deal with illegal drugs would more than pay for treatment. Hell, it'd probably be cheaper to give the stuff away to those who want it, than to try to keep them from getting it. Free drugs is how some countries are approaching it. I don't like that approach, personally, but that's because I'm disinclined to subsidize other people's lifestyles. Given that most of the time we're already doing that fore the hardcore addicts as it is the point is probably moot. ...but let's be straight about what really happens in the criminal justice system here in the states. Jails are not being stuffed because of personal use amounts of drugs. People aren't getting heavy prison sentences because of personal use amounts of drugs. Massive LE efforts are not being used on personal use amounts of drugs. Their drug charges are usually in the company of other anti-social behavior. LE efforts are not concentrated on users solely for using, at least not in any area I'm familiar with. Perhaps in some locations where it's pretty slow and the cops have nothing better to do. In most areas the cops almost always have something better to do than bust somebody with a dime bag of weed. The crime rate won't drop significantly, nor will the resources spent dealing with the fallout of drug abuse. All that will change is that people responsibly consuming personal use amounts of the stuff will have less to worry about. That's about as good as it's going to get. Legalization of prostitution is much the same thing...it won't really change the dynamics of law enforcement but it will make the people who typically aren't really causing the problems out of the CJ system. Just repeal all drug, gun, vice laws. Do away with 80% or more of welfare services. It'll all sort itself out. There's no way we're doing away with welfare. As I mentioned, some countries who have gone the legalization route have been basically handing out free drugs. People stop by a clinic, get their dose of something like heroin, and then go about their day as normal. I don't particularly like this plan, but it's not like the current plan is working splendidly. Why do we have to deject ourselves to socialist solutions to these problems? There is a different inherently American solution to what we face. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:32:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Alcoholics don't either. What's your point? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There will be blood in the streets. Road rage will turn deadly. Simple disagreements will turn into shootouts at the O.K. Corrall. It's going to be like the Old West all over again. I'm quite sure certain folks see this as a win. I see it as nothing will change. You will still have addicts, you will still have crime and it will still cost out the ass. Total deregulation will most assuredly have changes. The price will drop precipitously. And with that so will crime. There will be no more "drug dealers" fighting over turf. They won't have any profit to be made and therefore no power. Costs one hell of a lot less to give a bum a bed than to pay cops to arrest users, and jail them, so that end of the expenditure will decrease as well. It'll never happen, though. Too much money flowing and power retained. I have news for you. You could give away heroin for free and you would stil have addicts, crime and massive social costs. Addicts do not live productive honest lives. Alcoholics don't either. What's your point? The point is very obvious and I have already stated it twice. Nothing will change. The largest costs associated with drug use are NOT tied to it's legality. You will still have a black market for drugs BTW; There wil always be a number of addicts that will refuse to enter the system. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:33:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There will be blood in the streets. Road rage will turn deadly. Simple disagreements will turn into shootouts at the O.K. Corrall. It's going to be like the Old West all over again. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:33:49 PM EDT
[#15]
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I don't see why the smiley face, that's law here in Texas. Can't you shoot burglars in Florida? Confused face For Burglary yes Castle doctrine. Theft larceny includes all other property crime. Not lawful in Fl and I wouldn't. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:33:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, 99%?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Like, two digits small. So, 99%?
Look here man, I don't math, okay!?!??! 
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:34:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. If someone wants to take what I have, I would have no problem with their death. The things I own, I've spent part of my life to work to acquire. Someone else has no right to take it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Drug legalization really needs to be accompanied with cuts in/elimination of the welfare state (so addicts aren't subsidized) and self-defense reform (so that if addicts turn to crime their victims have at least some recourse). If some addict manages to earn a living and not sponge off the state or turn to crime, there's bigger problems to worry about than whether someone is high or not. agreed Lethal force for property crime? Theft larceny?  Yes. If someone wants to take what I have, I would have no problem with their death. The things I own, I've spent part of my life to work to acquire. Someone else has no right to take it. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:34:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This was the exact same argument lawmakers attempted to use in WI against CCW when we got it. Oh yeah, that and that people would go hunting in the zoo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There will be blood in the streets. Road rage will turn deadly. Simple disagreements will turn into shootouts at the O.K. Corrall. It's going to be like the Old West all over again. Is that right? Huh. 
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:35:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Take Philip Seymour Hoffman, for example. Bastard never could hold a job. I think many people misconstrue "addiction" There are functional addicts of all kinds of substances. I guarantee everyone reading this thread regularly interacts with someone who abuses prescription drugs but without obvious consequence. Street junkies exist and they cause all sorts of problems, but the substance they are abusing isn't really the core of the problem with those people. There is a spectrum of drug users out there and I think legalization would be beneficial to people on certain parts of that spectrum. The kind of people who routinely end up on the pointy end of LE interaction will still end up there whether drugs are legal or not. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:37:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The point is very obvious and I have already stated it twice. Nothing will change. The largest costs associated with drug use are NOT tied to it's legality. You will still have a black market for drugs BTW; There wil always be a number of addicts that will refuse to enter the system. In all seriousness, what system? If drugs were legalized, the system would consist of walking into the liquor and saying "Two grams of heroin, please," and forking over your $15.00. Is there still an appreciable black for booze since it was legalized? |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:39:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So nothing changes except that people have more freedom. Do you see that as a win? You seem eager to point out how other people will view this. How about you? How do you view this? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There will be blood in the streets. Road rage will turn deadly. Simple disagreements will turn into shootouts at the O.K. Corrall. It's going to be like the Old West all over again. I'm quite sure certain folks see this as a win. I see it as nothing will change. You will still have addicts, you will still have crime and it will still cost out the ass. So nothing changes except that people have more freedom. Do you see that as a win? You seem eager to point out how other people will view this. How about you? How do you view this? lol do you not read the posts on this forum? No one cares about freedom or liberty. They care about what it'll cost and if people are using drugs. To many, drug users are the problem, what a government has to spend money on is the problem, but freedom? Fuck that, people don't really like freedom except when they want to bash a political enemy. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:40:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do we have to deject ourselves to socialist solutions to these problems? There is a different inherently American solution to what we face. Ideally I would like to see it all legalized and along with that all responsibility placed on the individuals. In other words, use whatever you want...but if you get high and threaten somebody and they kill your ass, oh well. If you try to break into somebody's house, they can kill you and society will just clean up the body. You OD and fall over in the street? The garbage men will collect your corpse. Laissez-faire. That isn't going to fly, though. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:42:28 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The point is very obvious and I have already stated it twice. Nothing will change. The largest costs associated with drug use are NOT tied to it's legality. You will still have a black market for drugs BTW; There wil always be a number of addicts that will refuse to enter the system. The violence surrounding the drug war would cease over night if it became legal. It's the same thing as prohibition. Violence follows the stupidity behind the current policy. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:46:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fools. After 50+ years and a trillion+ dollars,the U.S. is this close to winning the War on (some) Drugs. We've spent 3X that on the war against murder... look where that's gotten us??? |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:46:57 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:47:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In all seriousness, what system? If drugs were legalized, the system would consist of walking into the liquor and saying "Two grams of heroin, please," and forking over your $15.00. Is there still an appreciable black for booze since it was legalized? Gangsters with machineguns shooting each other in the streets, no. Underage people trying whatever they can to get their hands on it, and sellers not obeying the law in the process of selling it, yes. Not as problematic, certainly...unless you start looking at all the consequences of legal alcohol. But we'd have most of those consequences if alcohol was illegal, too. I look at it like this: Human nature is inevitable. We're going to have problems regardless of what policy we have. There's a shitload of illegal substances on our books, and massive amounts of money spent trying to keep those illegal substances out of the hands of people. We have an entire federal agency that conducts overseas operations to stop the supply of drugs, a bunch of federal agencies that work together to stop them from getting inside the border and trafficked, and a bunch of state and local agencies who conduct enforcement actions on a regular basis. All of this is so spectacularly successful that you can go to any college campus and score whatever you could possibly want inside of an hour. We have a bunch of issues related to legal substances like alcohol and scrip drugs. We have a bunch of issues with illegal drugs. At best I think any policy is just going to be piddling in the margins because human nature is inevitable. We might be able to get a slightly more desirable set of problems with legalization and given what a spectacular failure our WOD approach has been, it's tough to argue that legalization will be worlds worse. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:47:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's no way we're doing away with welfare. As I mentioned, some countries who have gone the legalization route have been basically handing out free drugs. People stop by a clinic, get their dose of something like heroin, and then go about their day as normal. I don't particularly like this plan, but it's not like the current plan is working splendidly. Oh, I know. A guy can dream a little, can't he? 
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:50:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The point is very obvious and I have already stated it twice. Nothing will change. The largest costs associated with drug use are NOT tied to it's legality. You will still have a black market for drugs BTW; There wil always be a number of addicts that will refuse to enter the system. How much of a black market is there for booze? You DO see a black market where things are overly regulated and taxed, like in NYC with the cigs. Like I said, the .gov can't just step back and keep their fingers out of it and wind up fucking things up sometimes even more. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:50:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The violence surrounding the drug war would cease over night if it became legal. It's the same thing as prohibition. Violence follows the stupidity behind the current policy. "Surrounding the drug war" This is another bit of wishful thinking, IMO. Gangs and street criminals will not stop being violent if drugs are legalized. The classification for their violence just changes. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:50:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The violence surrounding the drug war would cease over night if it became legal. It's the same thing as prohibition. Violence follows the stupidity behind the current policy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The point is very obvious and I have already stated it twice. Nothing will change. The largest costs associated with drug use are NOT tied to it's legality. You will still have a black market for drugs BTW; There wil always be a number of addicts that will refuse to enter the system. The violence surrounding the drug war would cease over night if it became legal. It's the same thing as prohibition. Violence follows the stupidity behind the current policy. There is no violence surrounding the drug war. Just another liberal myth. Scumbags kill other scumbags, be it over heroin or stolen car motorcycles. (which was the most violent and nasty murder I ever worked) You just see the drug part becuase that is where your interests lie. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:50:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder what % of GD is offended that they can use drugs and its not illegal, that they can't have their car taken, their cash confiscated, their door kicked in, and their dog shot for snortin some blow and smoking some herb. I have a problem with none of that. What I do have a problem with is paying their rent, food, utilities, their children's education, their medical bills, the retirement, rehab, Obamaphones, and all the other shit a crackhead, tweeker, or "social drug user" gets to sponge of the working class. Why the fuck do cops have to carry narcan??? Use all you want, just don't make me pay for it. I'll kick in the the cremation. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:51:03 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This was the exact same argument lawmakers attempted to use in WI against CCW when we got it. Oh yeah, that and that people would go hunting in the zoo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There will be blood in the streets. Road rage will turn deadly. Simple disagreements will turn into shootouts at the O.K. Corrall. It's going to be like the Old West all over again. I'm pretty sure that's the point sub was making. 
ETA: I should have read further. Damn my impatience. 
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:51:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much of a black market is there for booze? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The point is very obvious and I have already stated it twice. Nothing will change. The largest costs associated with drug use are NOT tied to it's legality. You will still have a black market for drugs BTW; There wil always be a number of addicts that will refuse to enter the system. How much of a black market is there for booze? A pretty good one actually. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:52:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Good for them. It will be interesting to see the results.
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:53:12 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ideally I would like to see it all legalized and along with that all responsibility placed on the individuals. In other words, use whatever you want...but if you get high and threaten somebody and they kill your ass, oh well. If you try to break into somebody's house, they can kill you and society will just clean up the body. You OD and fall over in the street? The garbage men will collect your corpse. Laissez-faire. That isn't going to fly, though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why do we have to deject ourselves to socialist solutions to these problems? There is a different inherently American solution to what we face. Ideally I would like to see it all legalized and along with that all responsibility placed on the individuals. In other words, use whatever you want...but if you get high and threaten somebody and they kill your ass, oh well. If you try to break into somebody's house, they can kill you and society will just clean up the body. You OD and fall over in the street? The garbage men will collect your corpse. Laissez-faire. That isn't going to fly, though. It could if people weren't scared of freedom. Unfortunately people are complacent with living in a society that uses force to dictate the level of freedom people should have. So you are right. Nothing will change. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:53:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A pretty good one actually. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The point is very obvious and I have already stated it twice. Nothing will change. The largest costs associated with drug use are NOT tied to it's legality. You will still have a black market for drugs BTW; There wil always be a number of addicts that will refuse to enter the system. How much of a black market is there for booze? A pretty good one actually. It's booming down here. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:54:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Surrounding the drug war" This is another bit of wishful thinking, IMO. Gangs and street criminals will not stop being violent if drugs are legalized. The classification for their violence just changes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The violence surrounding the drug war would cease over night if it became legal. It's the same thing as prohibition. Violence follows the stupidity behind the current policy. "Surrounding the drug war" This is another bit of wishful thinking, IMO. Gangs and street criminals will not stop being violent if drugs are legalized. The classification for their violence just changes. It amazes me that people still fall for the violentless street gang bullshit. I guess people are niave and want to believe...??? Ireland is decimalizing drugs for one reason... they are flat fucking broke. Two, maybe three years behind Greece. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:54:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ideally I would like to see it all legalized and along with that all responsibility placed on the individuals. In other words, use whatever you want...but if you get high and threaten somebody and they kill your ass, oh well. If you try to break into somebody's house, they can kill you and society will just clean up the body. You OD and fall over in the street? The garbage men will collect your corpse. Laissez-faire. That isn't going to fly, though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why do we have to deject ourselves to socialist solutions to these problems? There is a different inherently American solution to what we face. Ideally I would like to see it all legalized and along with that all responsibility placed on the individuals. In other words, use whatever you want...but if you get high and threaten somebody and they kill your ass, oh well. If you try to break into somebody's house, they can kill you and society will just clean up the body. You OD and fall over in the street? The garbage men will collect your corpse. Laissez-faire. That isn't going to fly, though. AMEN brother. If you enjoy reading scify, have you read Freehold? An utterly libertarian planet. I think you would like it, if you enjoy reading that sort of thing. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:55:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good for them. It will be interesting to see the results. Yep. I wonder, though, do other countries like Portugal and Ireland have as violent of a culture as our urban youth? I mean, is there anywhere that we can get a real comparison about how it impacts crime and imprisonment? |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:55:58 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AMEN brother. If you enjoy reading scify, have you read Freehold? An utterly libertarian planet. I think you would like it, if you enjoy reading that sort of thing. I never learned to read.
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:56:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Underage people trying whatever they can to get their hands on it, and sellers not obeying the law in the process of selling it, yes. Not as problematic, certainly...unless you start looking at all the consequences of legal alcohol. But we'd have most of those consequences if alcohol was illegal, too. . Have to disagree with this. It's much easier for kids to get pot (or any illegal drug) than alcohol. Precisely because it's illegal. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:56:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that right? Huh. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There will be blood in the streets. Road rage will turn deadly. Simple disagreements will turn into shootouts at the O.K. Corrall. It's going to be like the Old West all over again. Is that right? Huh. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:57:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. I wonder, though, do other countries like Portugal and Ireland have as violent of a culture as our urban youth? I mean, is there anywhere that we can get a real comparison about how it impacts crime and imprisonment? I believe they have pockets of violence not too dissimilar to what we have in the states. Our stats are fucked up by places like Chicago and Baltimore. I believe they are pretty much in the same boat. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:57:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. I wonder, though, do other countries like Portugal and Ireland have as violent of a culture as our urban youth? I mean, is there anywhere that we can get a real comparison about how it impacts crime and imprisonment? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Good for them. It will be interesting to see the results. Yep. I wonder, though, do other countries like Portugal and Ireland have as violent of a culture as our urban youth? I mean, is there anywhere that we can get a real comparison about how it impacts crime and imprisonment? Can't speak as to Ireland, but Portugal certainly does. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:57:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have to disagree with this. It's much easier for kids to get pot (or any illegal drug) than alcohol. Precisely because it's illegal. I live in a college town. Nobody has trouble getting their hands on booze. Of course, they don't have any trouble getting their hands on weed either. Or adderall. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:58:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Cool.
Thanks to both Johns. 
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:58:11 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no violence surrounding the drug war. Just another liberal myth. Scumbags kill other scumbags, be it over heroin or stolen car motorcycles. (which was the most violent and nasty murder I ever worked) You just see the drug part becuase that is where your interests lie. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The point is very obvious and I have already stated it twice. Nothing will change. The largest costs associated with drug use are NOT tied to it's legality. You will still have a black market for drugs BTW; There wil always be a number of addicts that will refuse to enter the system. The violence surrounding the drug war would cease over night if it became legal. It's the same thing as prohibition. Violence follows the stupidity behind the current policy. There is no violence surrounding the drug war. Just another liberal myth. Scumbags kill other scumbags, be it over heroin or stolen car motorcycles. (which was the most violent and nasty murder I ever worked) You just see the drug part becuase that is where your interests lie. I think the cartels down south would disagree. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:59:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A pretty good one actually. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The point is very obvious and I have already stated it twice. Nothing will change. The largest costs associated with drug use are NOT tied to it's legality. You will still have a black market for drugs BTW; There wil always be a number of addicts that will refuse to enter the system. How much of a black market is there for booze? A pretty good one actually. Oh sure there are guys selling quarts of shine here and there. They're not getting hundreds of bucks for them, though. The difference being the legality of alcohol. It's more of a novelty than anything. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 5:00:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the cartels down south would disagree. Putting the cartels out of business is one of the strongest arguments in favor of legalization, IMO. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 5:00:59 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no violence surrounding the drug war. Just another liberal myth. Scumbags kill other scumbags, be it over heroin or stolen car motorcycles. (which was the most violent and nasty murder I ever worked) You just see the drug part becuase that is where your interests lie. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The point is very obvious and I have already stated it twice. Nothing will change. The largest costs associated with drug use are NOT tied to it's legality. You will still have a black market for drugs BTW; There wil always be a number of addicts that will refuse to enter the system. The violence surrounding the drug war would cease over night if it became legal. It's the same thing as prohibition. Violence follows the stupidity behind the current policy. There is no violence surrounding the drug war. Just another liberal myth. Scumbags kill other scumbags, be it over heroin or stolen car motorcycles. (which was the most violent and nasty murder I ever worked) You just see the drug part becuase that is where your interests lie. I have no interest in drugs other then not wanting my tax dollars to fund the drug war. Left wing people believe in using the government to tell people how to live their lives. Humanity is flawed, there always will be crime, but there is collateral damage with certain policies. Living in a free society has consequences. |
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