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Link Posted: 1/24/2012 6:59:10 PM EST
[#1]
Meh
cmmg
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 6:59:44 PM EST
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Have fun trying to reholster


This

and I'd rip my shirt on the front sight every time I changed clothes.


Sigh. This isn't a holster designed for reholstering. It serves a purpose for people who need absolute low profile at the waist. Serves no purpose for me, but I know people who will use this to great effect. This isn't the only trigger-guard only "holster" on the market. That should tell people something: there is a market and need for this.

If you think this is stupid, guess what? You aren't the intended consumer.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 7:21:05 PM EST
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Have fun trying to reholster


This

and I'd rip my shirt on the front sight every time I changed clothes.


Sigh. This isn't a holster designed for reholstering. It serves a purpose for people who need absolute low profile at the waist. Serves no purpose for me, but I know people who will use this to great effect. This isn't the only trigger-guard only "holster" on the market. That should tell people something: there is a market and need for this.

If you think this is stupid, guess what? You aren't the intended consumer.


A fan of the Judge, eh?
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 7:22:06 PM EST
[#4]



Quoted:


no thanks..


+1 I'll keep my Versa Max 2 style leather holster.



 
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 7:22:44 PM EST
[#5]
Quoted:
Your needs as a uniformed police officer are much different than my needs as a civilian.

I like this holster.  

I bought one of these:
http://www.ravenconcealment.com/image/cache/data/Vanguard1260-500x500-500x500.jpg


what do you tie that to? please don't say your sack.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 7:25:11 PM EST
[#6]




Quoted:



Quoted:

Your needs as a uniformed police officer are much different than my needs as a civilian.



I like this holster.



I bought one of these:

http://www.ravenconcealment.com/image/cache/data/Vanguard1260-500x500-500x500.jpg





what do you tie that to? please don't say your sack.




Dude, seriously.



Link Posted: 1/24/2012 7:26:11 PM EST
[#7]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Your needs as a uniformed police officer are much different than my needs as a civilian.

I like this holster.

I bought one of these:
http://www.ravenconcealment.com/image/cache/data/Vanguard1260-500x500-500x500.jpg


what do you tie that to? please don't say your sack.


Dude, seriously.



Hook Line and Sinker
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 7:29:03 PM EST
[#8]




Quoted:



Quoted:





Quoted:



Quoted:

Your needs as a uniformed police officer are much different than my needs as a civilian.



I like this holster.



I bought one of these:

http://www.ravenconcealment.com/image/cache/data/Vanguard1260-500x500-500x500.jpg





what do you tie that to? please don't say your sack.




Dude, seriously.







Hook Line and Sinker







The "tie to your sack" remark, coming on the heels of the shirtless Bon Jovi photos . . .



Well, as long as you think it's funny.



Sheesh.

Link Posted: 1/24/2012 7:29:48 PM EST
[#9]
Belt loop.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 7:33:20 PM EST
[#10]
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster.  The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW.  What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops?  You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers.  The only place that is true is in a holster.

Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up.




If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the  best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience....
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 7:49:07 PM EST
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Have fun trying to reholster


This

and I'd rip my shirt on the front sight every time I changed clothes.


Sigh. This isn't a holster designed for reholstering. It serves a purpose for people who need absolute low profile at the waist. Serves no purpose for me, but I know people who will use this to great effect. This isn't the only trigger-guard only "holster" on the market. That should tell people something: there is a market and need for this.

If you think this is stupid, guess what? You aren't the intended consumer.


A fan of the Judge, eh?


No. Good argument.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 8:07:33 PM EST
[#12]
I really can't see any advantage to this.  The butt is what prints, not the holster.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 8:13:34 PM EST
[#13]
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 8:16:55 PM EST
[#14]
The pull the dot loop material looks different than ones I've seen before. Is it stiffer to keep the gun from moving?
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 8:25:30 PM EST
[#15]
Quoted:
The pull the dot loop material looks different than ones I've seen before. Is it stiffer to keep the gun from moving?


It's pretty movable, actually. I can only compare it to Bladetech loops, but the Bladetech loops are much stiffer than the Raven loop on this holster.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 9:26:59 PM EST
[#16]
Quoted:
no thanks..


Link Posted: 1/25/2012 2:45:52 AM EST
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster.  The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW.  What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops?  You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers.  The only place that is true is in a holster.

Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up.




If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the  best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience....



So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster?

My apologies.  I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought.  Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class?

Link Posted: 1/25/2012 2:58:44 AM EST
[#18]
Herp derp.






Its a niche holster designed to fit a specific need. If your primary concern is re-holstering before the cops show up, its not for you.
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 3:05:40 AM EST
[#19]
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 3:10:19 AM EST
[#20]
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 3:10:57 AM EST
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster.  The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW.  What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops?  You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers.  The only place that is true is in a holster.

Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up.




If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the  best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience....



So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster?

My apologies.  I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought.  Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class?



You just failed in ways unknown in the annals of failure.
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 3:23:04 AM EST
[#22]
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 3:27:30 AM EST
[#23]
Post edited.
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 3:30:44 AM EST
[#24]
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 3:34:22 AM EST
[#25]
wonder if they will get sued by these guys, they have been making them for years.











Crappy music warning



















 
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 3:35:27 AM EST
[#26]
Still cracking up at "THIS IS NOT NARNIA"
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 3:38:23 AM EST
[#27]



Quoted:



Quoted:

In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?




Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.



I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.



As a civilian, in Texas at least, we are not allowed to carry less lethal options like batons. I would imagine from a CHL standpoint that if the situation de-escalates the only real course of action would be to evacuate the area.



Though by that time I would hope that the police would have been called.





 
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 3:40:20 AM EST
[#28]
No. Minimalist trigger guard holsters have been around for a long time. Raven and other companies have been making them with para cord, clips, and loops.


Quoted:


wonder if they will get sued by these guys, they have been making them for years.






Crappy music warning










 






 
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 3:41:35 AM EST
[#29]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?




Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.



I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.




Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on.




In Texas you might be able to get away with that. In other states there will be times where self defense is justified but not lethal force.




Then why would you pull your gun in the first place?




Sometimes it starts out looking like a lethal force situation and then changes. Suspect drops his weapon but then wants to continue fighting unarmed. You gonna shoot a smaller weaker drug or alcohol impaired opponent because he used to be armed and is scuffling with you? You'll probably be okay in Texas. If I do it in Cali I'm going to prison.



And there you go. Disparity of forcecould be an issue but if you can articulate a fear for your life or fear of permanent injury then I would never attempt to go hands on with a criminal intent on harming me.





 
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 3:43:49 AM EST
[#30]





Quoted:





Quoted:





You live in a very black and white world.  okay. I've got a screwdriver and I'm breaking into your car.






In Texas we just shoot people for that, legally.








Especially, if as he said, it is at night.


 






ETA - I will buy one when they become available.
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 4:23:00 AM EST
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster.  The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW.  What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops?  You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers.  The only place that is true is in a holster.

Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up.




If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the  best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience....



So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster?

My apologies.  I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought.  Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class?



Sorry we have a vetting process.... for that class


On a serious note oh wait that was serious.....  what crime was committed your the victim?  you want to stand there for his friends and family to come back  have at it get to a secure location call police. once your in a safe area again  remove and re holster real simple or cover gun with object  or material such as stated previously......if you wish to stand guard over the person who tried to kill  and take i phone pics or you tube videos have at it
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 4:45:36 AM EST
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster.  The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW.  What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops?  You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers.  The only place that is true is in a holster.

Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up.




If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the  best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience....



So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster?

My apologies.  I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought.  Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class?



He's a life coach. Lives in a van, down by the river.
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 6:46:49 AM EST
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster.  The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW.  What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops?  You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers.  The only place that is true is in a holster.

Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up.




If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the  best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience....



So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster?

My apologies.  I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought.  Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class?



Magpul Dynamics.

Or very occasionally MDFI




Link Posted: 1/25/2012 6:55:53 AM EST
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster.  The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW.  What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops?  You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers.  The only place that is true is in a holster.

Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up.




If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the  best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience....



So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster?

My apologies.  I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought.  Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class?



I love it when people think they know what their talking about.
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 6:57:36 AM EST
[#35]
I never said "hold your attacker hostage til the cops show up" or "stand over your attacker gloating til his homies return for revenge."

If you draw your gun in any self-defense incident, you will at some point need to not have the gun in your hand.  And you had better have the police on the phone before your attacker or his buddies call in a report of a crazy guy randomly shooting/waving guns at innocent choir members.

How are you going to reholster with a phone in your other hand?  Or are you planning to stroll through town with a phone in one hand and your heater in the other until you get somewhere safe?

Every instructor I've ever had, and every instructor of instructors, has emphasized the necessity of a holster which is capable of one-handed reholstering for CCW - both for private citizens and off-duty LEO.

Link Posted: 1/25/2012 7:12:54 AM EST
[#36]
You should open your mind.

There are hundreds of things you can do with a sidearm after running a bad guy to the ground other than re-holstering.

Re-holstering is not the ONLY thing to do.
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 7:17:35 AM EST
[#37]
Quoted:
How are you going to reholster with a phone in your other hand?


Brace yourself.....



HERP DERP HOW DO I TALK ON PHONE WITH NO HANDS
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 7:22:28 AM EST
[#38]
Quoted:
I never said "hold your attacker hostage til the cops show up" or "stand over your attacker gloating til his homies return for revenge."

If you draw your gun in any self-defense incident, you will at some point need to not have the gun in your hand.  And you had better have the police on the phone before your attacker or his buddies call in a report of a crazy guy randomly shooting/waving guns at innocent choir members.

How are you going to reholster with a phone in your other hand?  Or are you planning to stroll through town with a phone in one hand and your heater in the other until you get somewhere safe?

Every instructor I've ever had, and every instructor of instructors, has emphasized the necessity of a holster which is capable of one-handed reholstering for CCW - both for private citizens and off-duty LEO.



Dude...just stop, you're not helping yourself.

Unsnap > remove from pants > slide over trigger guard > place back in pants > snap

I've never handled the thing and I guarantee I could do that in under 30 seconds the first time.
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 7:27:20 AM EST
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
How are you going to reholster with a phone in your other hand?


Brace yourself.....

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4798049540_6bd69646f4.jpg

HERP DERP HOW DO I TALK ON PHONE WITH NO HANDS


And we know that nobody ever gets injured in an attack, which is why you also advocate carrying empty-chamber and Israeli draw, and only practice shooting two-handed?

Link Posted: 1/25/2012 7:27:33 AM EST
[#40]
He probably thinks semi-autos are too complicated for women also... or at least that's what he's been told to think.
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 7:28:03 AM EST
[#41]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?


Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.

I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.

As a civilian, in Texas at least, we are not allowed to carry less lethal options like batons. I would imagine from a CHL standpoint that if the situation de-escalates the only real course of action would be to evacuate the area.

Though by that time I would hope that the police would have been called.

 


There's been a LOT of discussion about this on several Texas boards and the consensus is: If you're carrying your gun and your CHL you may also caryy an "illegal knife or club" as well. Here's the pertinent statues:

Sec. 46.01.  DEFINITIONS.  In this chapter:(1)  "Club" means an instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, and includes but is not limited to the following:(A)  blackjack;(B)  nightstick;(C)  mace;(D)  tomahawk.
      (6)  "Illegal knife" means a:(A)  knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;(B)  hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;(C)  dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;(D)  bowie knife;(E)  sword; or(F)  spear.

Sec. 46.02.  UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.  (a)  A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:(1)  on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or(2)  inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

Sec. 46.15.  NONAPPLICABILITY.  (b)  Section 46.02 does not apply to:
     (6)  is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;


Just sayin' is all.
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 8:05:37 AM EST
[#42]
Quoted:
I never said "hold your attacker hostage til the cops show up" or "stand over your attacker gloating til his homies return for revenge."

If you draw your gun in any self-defense incident, you will at some point need to not have the gun in your hand.  And you had better have the police on the phone before your attacker or his buddies call in a report of a crazy guy randomly shooting/waving guns at innocent choir members.

How are you going to reholster with a phone in your other hand?  Or are you planning to stroll through town with a phone in one hand and your heater in the other until you get somewhere safe?

Every instructor I've ever had, and every instructor of instructors, has emphasized the necessity of a holster which is capable of one-handed re holstering for CCW - both for private citizens and off-duty LEO.



awesome now we have moved on to  shooting innocent choir members, maybe while we are at it, we can shoot some nuns taking the orphans to the zoo in there wheelchairs that caused that news chopter to crash into  the medicivac one that was on scene after the bus crashed and caused a 5 car pileup,

Dude really i get what your saying but your mind is so  freaking closed its unreal........... yes there is a importance to being able to re holster one handed and there is a time not too and the time not to is when the cops finally get there.. the threat isnt over till the shit bag in zipped up and covered and in a bag on slab with a toe tag....... then i would feel better about putting my gun away this is why  more advanced training and TTPs are important

Now back to your regular scheduled  train wreck
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 8:11:45 AM EST
[#43]
Lots of people carry all over the world and don't need to holster before the PD shows up. Raven has a ton of government sales.



This is a nice low vis holster for those who need it.
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 8:11:55 AM EST
[#44]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?




Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.



I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.




Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on.




In Texas you might be able to get away with that. In other states there will be times where self defense is justified but not lethal force.




Then why would you pull your gun in the first place?




Sometimes it starts out looking like a lethal force situation and then changes. Suspect drops his weapon but then wants to continue fighting unarmed. You gonna shoot a smaller weaker drug or alcohol impaired opponent because he used to be armed and is scuffling with you? You'll probably be okay in Texas. If I do it in Cali I'm going to prison.


FWIW, I've been in a CCW situation where I had to reholster, and my leather IWB holster collapsed after I drew.



Couldn't get the gun back in, so I had to fight one handed.





 
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 8:19:29 AM EST
[#45]
Quoted:
FWIW, I've been in a CCW situation where I had to reholster, and my leather IWB holster collapsed after I drew.

Couldn't get the gun back in, so I had to fight one handed.

 


Would you care to share the details? I'm not being combative, I'm genuinely curious.

Link Posted: 1/25/2012 8:21:02 AM EST
[#46]





Quoted:





Quoted:




Quoted:




Quoted:





So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster?





My apologies.  I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought.  Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class?





Magpul Dynamics.





Or very occasionally MDFI


OWNED


 
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 8:30:57 AM EST
[#47]



Quoted:



Quoted:

FWIW, I've been in a CCW situation where I had to reholster, and my leather IWB holster collapsed after I drew.



Couldn't get the gun back in, so I had to fight one handed.



 




Would you care to share the details? I'm not being combative, I'm genuinely curious.





Sure.



I was cornered by a group of guys looking to mug me or whatever and I drew when one of them presented a pistol.



The one with the gun and other one fled, but one of the thugs wanted to go hands on, but he was unarmed.



I had to choke him out and keep my gun away from him at the same time.



Bad on me for 1) not being able to reholster securely and 2) for letting myself get cornered



 
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 8:39:02 AM EST
[#48]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW, I've been in a CCW situation where I had to reholster, and my leather IWB holster collapsed after I drew.

Couldn't get the gun back in, so I had to fight one handed.

 


Would you care to share the details? I'm not being combative, I'm genuinely curious.


Sure.

I was cornered by a group of guys looking to mug me or whatever and I drew when one of them presented a pistol.

The one with the gun and other one fled, but one of the thugs wanted to go hands on, but he was unarmed.

I had to choke him out and keep my gun away from him at the same time.

Bad on me for 1) not being able to reholster securely and 2) for letting myself get cornered
 


Glad you made it out of that situation OK. Personally I would see nothing wrong if you had shot him. If someone decides to come after you while you have a gun pointed at them it's fairly safe to assume they are going to try and get it away from you and use it. That's Darwin Award territory dumb.
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 8:43:48 AM EST
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?


Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.

I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.


Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on.


In Texas you might be able to get away with that. In other states there will be times where self defense is justified but not lethal force.


Then why would you pull your gun in the first place?


Sometimes it starts out looking like a lethal force situation and then changes. Suspect drops his weapon but then wants to continue fighting unarmed. You gonna shoot a smaller weaker drug or alcohol impaired opponent because he used to be armed and is scuffling with you? You'll probably be okay in Texas. If I do it in Cali I'm going to prison.


No, you wont. You are only able to meet the threat with as much force as they are attempting to use against you.
i.e. you cant use deaily force against a person who only wants to use force (going hands on) unless there is an obvious disparity of force such as a much larger attacker or a group of attackers or when serious bodily harm is perceived. Also, if the subject stops his persuit of force (drops the weapon, attempts to leave, or otherwise deescelates the situation) you must also stop yours. You may not shoot, use force against, or pursue. If you do, you then become the agressor and they have justifiable cause to use force or deadly force against you. You become the agressor at tha tpoint
Link Posted: 1/25/2012 8:47:52 AM EST
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FWIW, I've been in a CCW situation where I had to reholster, and my leather IWB holster collapsed after I drew.

Couldn't get the gun back in, so I had to fight one handed.

 


Would you care to share the details? I'm not being combative, I'm genuinely curious.


Sure.

I was cornered by a group of guys looking to mug me or whatever and I drew when one of them presented a pistol.

The one with the gun and other one fled, but one of the thugs wanted to go hands on, but he was unarmed.

I had to choke him out and keep my gun away from him at the same time.

Bad on me for 1) not being able to reholster securely and 2) for letting myself get cornered
 


Yeah, see, that's what I mean. I'm certainly not second guessing you but, for me, if I have someone at gun point and they advance to close, I'm drilling them. Particularly if the confrontation started as an armed robbery and regardless if he was the one who originally presented the weapon. I'd rather take my chances with a grand jury than figure out after we were engaged he had a reason to advance, like a concealed deadly weapon or a huge disparity in training or strength.

I'm pretty sure any sane prosecutor would understand "three guys tried to rob me at gun point and when I presented a pistol one of them rushed me so, I shot him."

Again, I'm in no way saying I don't respect and understand the decision you make at the time. Further, I'm not law enforcement with all that getting into a deadly force conflict would\might entail in my professional life.
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