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Posted: 1/24/2012 7:59:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Meh
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Posted: 1/24/2012 7:59:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Have fun trying to reholster  This and I'd rip my shirt on the front sight every time I changed clothes. Sigh. This isn't a holster designed for reholstering. It serves a purpose for people who need absolute low profile at the waist. Serves no purpose for me, but I know people who will use this to great effect. This isn't the only trigger-guard only "holster" on the market. That should tell people something: there is a market and need for this. If you think this is stupid, guess what? You aren't the intended consumer. |
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Posted: 1/24/2012 8:21:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Have fun trying to reholster This and I'd rip my shirt on the front sight every time I changed clothes. Sigh. This isn't a holster designed for reholstering. It serves a purpose for people who need absolute low profile at the waist. Serves no purpose for me, but I know people who will use this to great effect. This isn't the only trigger-guard only "holster" on the market. That should tell people something: there is a market and need for this. If you think this is stupid, guess what? You aren't the intended consumer. A fan of the Judge, eh? |
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Posted: 1/24/2012 8:22:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: no thanks.. +1 I'll keep my Versa Max 2 style leather holster. |
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Posted: 1/24/2012 8:22:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Your needs as a uniformed police officer are much different than my needs as a civilian. I like this holster. I bought one of these: http://www.ravenconcealment.com/image/cache/data/Vanguard1260-500x500-500x500.jpg what do you tie that to? please don't say your sack. 
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Posted: 1/24/2012 8:25:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: Your needs as a uniformed police officer are much different than my needs as a civilian. I like this holster. I bought one of these: http://www.ravenconcealment.com/image/cache/data/Vanguard1260-500x500-500x500.jpg what do you tie that to? please don't say your sack. Dude, seriously.
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Posted: 1/24/2012 8:26:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your needs as a uniformed police officer are much different than my needs as a civilian. I like this holster. I bought one of these: http://www.ravenconcealment.com/image/cache/data/Vanguard1260-500x500-500x500.jpg what do you tie that to? please don't say your sack. Dude, seriously. Hook Line and Sinker 
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Posted: 1/24/2012 8:29:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Your needs as a uniformed police officer are much different than my needs as a civilian. I like this holster. I bought one of these: http://www.ravenconcealment.com/image/cache/data/Vanguard1260-500x500-500x500.jpg what do you tie that to? please don't say your sack. Dude, seriously. Hook Line and Sinker The "tie to your sack" remark, coming on the heels of the shirtless Bon Jovi photos . . . Well, as long as you think it's funny. Sheesh. |
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Posted: 1/24/2012 8:29:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Belt loop.
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Posted: 1/24/2012 8:33:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster. The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW. What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops? You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers. The only place that is true is in a holster. Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up. If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience.... |
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Posted: 1/24/2012 8:49:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Have fun trying to reholster This and I'd rip my shirt on the front sight every time I changed clothes. Sigh. This isn't a holster designed for reholstering. It serves a purpose for people who need absolute low profile at the waist. Serves no purpose for me, but I know people who will use this to great effect. This isn't the only trigger-guard only "holster" on the market. That should tell people something: there is a market and need for this. If you think this is stupid, guess what? You aren't the intended consumer. A fan of the Judge, eh? No. Good argument. |
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Posted: 1/24/2012 9:07:33 PM EDT
[#12]
I really can't see any advantage to this. The butt is what prints, not the holster.
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Posted: 1/24/2012 9:13:34 PM EDT
[#13]
I have been trying one out for a few days, and I actually like it a lot.
I normally conceal carry with a Comp-Tac MTAC and Glock 19. I even took a handgun class with it... but traditional 4 o clock IWB carry does have its drawbacks (and obvious benefits). The RCS Vanguard 2 works surprisingly well. Now trust me, I've made fun of my friends before for carry appendix (with their handware, next to their hardware), but the level of concealability offered by this style of carry is unbeatable. The holster itself is extremely low profile and easy to don. Like any other holster, the Vanguard 2 has its pros (extremely light, low profile, easy to conceal carry with) and cons (can't reholster, and appendix carry takes some getting used to: my brass balls keep clanking on my slide) but overall I think it's not as wonky as everyone's making it out to be. RCS probably knew they were in for a tough sell with this product... every appendix carry holster has a uphill battle to fight, haha. It seems to be that most people who are opposed to the Vanguard 2 are actually just opposed to appendix carry in general. Hate to say it, but it works... haha. I'm the guy who used to make fun of it until I started trying it 2 days ago 
And no, I do not sell RCS products 
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Posted: 1/24/2012 9:16:55 PM EDT
[#14]
The pull the dot loop material looks different than ones I've seen before. Is it stiffer to keep the gun from moving?
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Posted: 1/24/2012 9:25:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
The pull the dot loop material looks different than ones I've seen before. Is it stiffer to keep the gun from moving? It's pretty movable, actually. I can only compare it to Bladetech loops, but the Bladetech loops are much stiffer than the Raven loop on this holster. |
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Posted: 1/24/2012 10:26:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
no thanks.. |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 3:45:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster. The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW. What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops? You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers. The only place that is true is in a holster. Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up. If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience.... So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster? My apologies. I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought. Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class? |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 3:58:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Herp derp.
Its a niche holster designed to fit a specific need. If your primary concern is re-holstering before the cops show up, its not for you.
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Posted: 1/25/2012 4:05:40 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster. The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW. What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops? You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers. The only place that is true is in a holster. Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up. If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience.... So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster? My apologies. I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought. Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class? Magpul Dynamics. Or very occasionally MDFI |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 4:10:19 AM EDT
[#20]
Beyond your goofy insults, you're missing that you absolutely can reapply the Van Guard. The only downside is that it requires two hands.
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Posted: 1/25/2012 4:10:57 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster. The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW. What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops? You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers. The only place that is true is in a holster. Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up. If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience.... So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster? My apologies. I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought. Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class? You just failed in ways unknown in the annals of failure. |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 4:23:04 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 1/25/2012 4:27:30 AM EDT
[#23]
Post edited.
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Posted: 1/25/2012 4:30:44 AM EDT
[#24]
If you buy one of these things, don't try and find a faster way to reholster. Take the VG2 off, apply it to the pistol properly, and then put it back on.
Attempting to shortcut that process is Darwin Award territory. |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 4:34:22 AM EDT
[#25]
wonder if they will get sued by these guys, they have been making them for years.
Crappy music warning  |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 4:35:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Still cracking up at "THIS IS NOT NARNIA"
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Posted: 1/25/2012 4:38:23 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark? Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect. I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand. Though by that time I would hope that the police would have been called.
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Posted: 1/25/2012 4:40:20 AM EDT
[#28]
No. Minimalist trigger guard holsters have been around for a long time. Raven and other companies have been making them with para cord, clips, and loops.
Quoted: wonder if they will get sued by these guys, they have been making them for years. Crappy music warning |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 4:41:35 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark? Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect. I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand. Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on. In Texas you might be able to get away with that. In other states there will be times where self defense is justified but not lethal force. Then why would you pull your gun in the first place? Sometimes it starts out looking like a lethal force situation and then changes. Suspect drops his weapon but then wants to continue fighting unarmed. You gonna shoot a smaller weaker drug or alcohol impaired opponent because he used to be armed and is scuffling with you? You'll probably be okay in Texas. If I do it in Cali I'm going to prison. |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 4:43:49 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: You live in a very black and white world. okay. I've got a screwdriver and I'm breaking into your car. In Texas we just shoot people for that, legally. Especially, if as he said, it is at night. ETA - I will buy one when they become available.
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Posted: 1/25/2012 5:23:00 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Absolutely retarded holster. The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW. What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops? You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers. The only place that is true is in a holster. Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up. If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience.... So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster? My apologies. I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought. Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class? Sorry we have a vetting process.... for that class On a serious note oh wait that was serious..... what crime was committed your the victim? you want to stand there for his friends and family to come back have at it get to a secure location call police. once your in a safe area again remove and re holster real simple or cover gun with object or material such as stated previously......if you wish to stand guard over the person who tried to kill and take i phone pics or you tube videos have at it |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 5:45:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Absolutely retarded holster. The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW. What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops? You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers. The only place that is true is in a holster. Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up. If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience.... So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster? My apologies. I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought. Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class? He's a life coach. Lives in a van, down by the river. |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 7:46:49 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster. The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW. What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops? You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers. The only place that is true is in a holster. Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up. If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience.... So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster? My apologies. I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought. Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class? Magpul Dynamics. Or very occasionally MDFI 
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Posted: 1/25/2012 7:55:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster. The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW. What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops? You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers. The only place that is true is in a holster. Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up. If your standing there over the guy or guys you just shot your not the best person in the world to give advice on a holster...It isnt a necessary its an option or a convenience.... So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster? My apologies. I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought. Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class? I love it when people think they know what their talking about.
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Posted: 1/25/2012 7:57:36 AM EDT
[#35]
I never said "hold your attacker hostage til the cops show up" or "stand over your attacker gloating til his homies return for revenge."
If you draw your gun in any self-defense incident, you will at some point need to not have the gun in your hand. And you had better have the police on the phone before your attacker or his buddies call in a report of a crazy guy randomly shooting/waving guns at innocent choir members. How are you going to reholster with a phone in your other hand? Or are you planning to stroll through town with a phone in one hand and your heater in the other until you get somewhere safe? Every instructor I've ever had, and every instructor of instructors, has emphasized the necessity of a holster which is capable of one-handed reholstering for CCW - both for private citizens and off-duty LEO. |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 8:12:54 AM EDT
[#36]
You should open your mind.
There are hundreds of things you can do with a sidearm after running a bad guy to the ground other than re-holstering. Re-holstering is not the ONLY thing to do. |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 8:17:35 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
How are you going to reholster with a phone in your other hand? Brace yourself..... 
HERP DERP HOW DO I TALK ON PHONE WITH NO HANDS |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 8:22:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
I never said "hold your attacker hostage til the cops show up" or "stand over your attacker gloating til his homies return for revenge." If you draw your gun in any self-defense incident, you will at some point need to not have the gun in your hand. And you had better have the police on the phone before your attacker or his buddies call in a report of a crazy guy randomly shooting/waving guns at innocent choir members. How are you going to reholster with a phone in your other hand? Or are you planning to stroll through town with a phone in one hand and your heater in the other until you get somewhere safe? Every instructor I've ever had, and every instructor of instructors, has emphasized the necessity of a holster which is capable of one-handed reholstering for CCW - both for private citizens and off-duty LEO. Dude...just stop, you're not helping yourself. Unsnap > remove from pants > slide over trigger guard > place back in pants > snap I've never handled the thing and I guarantee I could do that in under 30 seconds the first time. |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 8:27:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
How are you going to reholster with a phone in your other hand? Brace yourself..... http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4798049540_6bd69646f4.jpg HERP DERP HOW DO I TALK ON PHONE WITH NO HANDS And we know that nobody ever gets injured in an attack, which is why you also advocate carrying empty-chamber and Israeli draw, and only practice shooting two-handed? |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 8:27:33 AM EDT
[#40]
He probably thinks semi-autos are too complicated for women also... or at least that's what he's been told to think.
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Posted: 1/25/2012 8:28:03 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark? Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect. I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand. Though by that time I would hope that the police would have been called.
There's been a LOT of discussion about this on several Texas boards and the consensus is: If you're carrying your gun and your CHL you may also caryy an "illegal knife or club" as well. Here's the pertinent statues: Sec. 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:(1) "Club" means an instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, and includes but is not limited to the following:(A) blackjack;(B) nightstick;(C) mace;(D) tomahawk. (6) "Illegal knife" means a:(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;(D) bowie knife;(E) sword; or(F) spear. Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control. Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to: (6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying; Just sayin' is all. |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 9:05:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I never said "hold your attacker hostage til the cops show up" or "stand over your attacker gloating til his homies return for revenge." If you draw your gun in any self-defense incident, you will at some point need to not have the gun in your hand. And you had better have the police on the phone before your attacker or his buddies call in a report of a crazy guy randomly shooting/waving guns at innocent choir members. How are you going to reholster with a phone in your other hand? Or are you planning to stroll through town with a phone in one hand and your heater in the other until you get somewhere safe? Every instructor I've ever had, and every instructor of instructors, has emphasized the necessity of a holster which is capable of one-handed re holstering for CCW - both for private citizens and off-duty LEO. awesome now we have moved on to shooting innocent choir members, maybe while we are at it, we can shoot some nuns taking the orphans to the zoo in there wheelchairs that caused that news chopter to crash into the medicivac one that was on scene after the bus crashed and caused a 5 car pileup, Dude really i get what your saying but your mind is so freaking closed its unreal........... yes there is a importance to being able to re holster one handed and there is a time not too and the time not to is when the cops finally get there.. the threat isnt over till the shit bag in zipped up and covered and in a bag on slab with a toe tag....... then i would feel better about putting my gun away this is why more advanced training and TTPs are important Now back to your regular scheduled train wreck |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 9:11:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Lots of people carry all over the world and don't need to holster before the PD shows up. Raven has a ton of government sales.
This is a nice low vis holster for those who need it.
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Posted: 1/25/2012 9:11:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark? Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect. I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand. Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on. In Texas you might be able to get away with that. In other states there will be times where self defense is justified but not lethal force. Then why would you pull your gun in the first place? Sometimes it starts out looking like a lethal force situation and then changes. Suspect drops his weapon but then wants to continue fighting unarmed. You gonna shoot a smaller weaker drug or alcohol impaired opponent because he used to be armed and is scuffling with you? You'll probably be okay in Texas. If I do it in Cali I'm going to prison. FWIW, I've been in a CCW situation where I had to reholster, and my leather IWB holster collapsed after I drew. Couldn't get the gun back in, so I had to fight one handed. |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 9:19:29 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
FWIW, I've been in a CCW situation where I had to reholster, and my leather IWB holster collapsed after I drew. Couldn't get the gun back in, so I had to fight one handed. Would you care to share the details? I'm not being combative, I'm genuinely curious. |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 9:21:02 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Quoted: Magpul Dynamics.Quoted: So... you're planning to leave the scene of the crime... running around in public with your gun in your hand because you can't reholster?Quoted: My apologies. I defer to your obviously superior carry experience and impeccable forethought. Where can I sign up for your advanced CCW class? Or very occasionally MDFI OWNED |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 9:30:57 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: FWIW, I've been in a CCW situation where I had to reholster, and my leather IWB holster collapsed after I drew. Couldn't get the gun back in, so I had to fight one handed. Would you care to share the details? I'm not being combative, I'm genuinely curious. Sure. I was cornered by a group of guys looking to mug me or whatever and I drew when one of them presented a pistol. The one with the gun and other one fled, but one of the thugs wanted to go hands on, but he was unarmed. I had to choke him out and keep my gun away from him at the same time. Bad on me for 1) not being able to reholster securely and 2) for letting myself get cornered |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 9:39:02 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
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FWIW, I've been in a CCW situation where I had to reholster, and my leather IWB holster collapsed after I drew. Couldn't get the gun back in, so I had to fight one handed. Would you care to share the details? I'm not being combative, I'm genuinely curious. Sure. I was cornered by a group of guys looking to mug me or whatever and I drew when one of them presented a pistol. The one with the gun and other one fled, but one of the thugs wanted to go hands on, but he was unarmed. I had to choke him out and keep my gun away from him at the same time. Bad on me for 1) not being able to reholster securely and 2) for letting myself get cornered Glad you made it out of that situation OK. Personally I would see nothing wrong if you had shot him. If someone decides to come after you while you have a gun pointed at them it's fairly safe to assume they are going to try and get it away from you and use it. That's Darwin Award territory dumb. |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 9:43:48 AM EDT
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In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark? Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect. I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand. Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on. In Texas you might be able to get away with that. In other states there will be times where self defense is justified but not lethal force. Then why would you pull your gun in the first place? Sometimes it starts out looking like a lethal force situation and then changes. Suspect drops his weapon but then wants to continue fighting unarmed. You gonna shoot a smaller weaker drug or alcohol impaired opponent because he used to be armed and is scuffling with you? You'll probably be okay in Texas. If I do it in Cali I'm going to prison. No, you wont. You are only able to meet the threat with as much force as they are attempting to use against you. i.e. you cant use deaily force against a person who only wants to use force (going hands on) unless there is an obvious disparity of force such as a much larger attacker or a group of attackers or when serious bodily harm is perceived. Also, if the subject stops his persuit of force (drops the weapon, attempts to leave, or otherwise deescelates the situation) you must also stop yours. You may not shoot, use force against, or pursue. If you do, you then become the agressor and they have justifiable cause to use force or deadly force against you. You become the agressor at tha tpoint |
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Posted: 1/25/2012 9:47:52 AM EDT
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FWIW, I've been in a CCW situation where I had to reholster, and my leather IWB holster collapsed after I drew. Couldn't get the gun back in, so I had to fight one handed. Would you care to share the details? I'm not being combative, I'm genuinely curious. Sure. I was cornered by a group of guys looking to mug me or whatever and I drew when one of them presented a pistol. The one with the gun and other one fled, but one of the thugs wanted to go hands on, but he was unarmed. I had to choke him out and keep my gun away from him at the same time. Bad on me for 1) not being able to reholster securely and 2) for letting myself get cornered Yeah, see, that's what I mean. I'm certainly not second guessing you but, for me, if I have someone at gun point and they advance to close, I'm drilling them. Particularly if the confrontation started as an armed robbery and regardless if he was the one who originally presented the weapon. I'd rather take my chances with a grand jury than figure out after we were engaged he had a reason to advance, like a concealed deadly weapon or a huge disparity in training or strength. I'm pretty sure any sane prosecutor would understand "three guys tried to rob me at gun point and when I presented a pistol one of them rushed me so, I shot him." Again, I'm in no way saying I don't respect and understand the decision you make at the time. Further, I'm not law enforcement with all that getting into a deadly force conflict would\might entail in my professional life. |
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