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Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:02:31 PM EST
[#1]
missing
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:03:06 PM EST
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
no thanks..

+1  Good way to get Glock-Nutted.

I prefer to carry in real holsters.


The holster completely covers the trigger. It isn't recommended that you reholster. Instead, they recommend you remove it form your pants, reholster, then reattach the holster. This is for CCW, not competition.


Which why the ability to reholster one handed is even more important.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:04:49 PM EST
[#3]
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:06:13 PM EST
[#4]
I haven't been overly-impressed with RC's stuff. While I'm not a fatbody by any stretch the RC holsters are actually too close to the body, IMHO.

 
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:12:31 PM EST
[#5]
Quoted:
In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?


Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.

I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:16:48 PM EST
[#6]
Your needs as a uniformed police officer are much different than my needs as a civilian.

I like this holster.  

I bought one of these:

Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:19:39 PM EST
[#7]
Based on the picture, I can't think of a more uncomfortable way to carry.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:19:49 PM EST
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?


Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.

I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.


Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on. I don't think anyone is arguing this is a good replacement for a duty or competition rig.

As has been pointed out several times already, this retention device fills a specific niche, it is not a "holster" but, it is a fantastic idea for what it actually is: A very compact way to carry a large gun with minimal bulk in relative safety.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:22:12 PM EST
[#9]



Quoted:


oh thats fucking nice!



guess you don't have to be chinese to steal other peoples ideas.



nice job Raven ripping off PhillyEDCs design!






 
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:22:18 PM EST
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?


Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.

I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.


Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on.


In Texas you might be able to get away with that. In other states there will be times where self defense is justified but not lethal force.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:23:11 PM EST
[#11]
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:24:43 PM EST
[#12]
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:24:47 PM EST
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Based on the picture, I can't think of a more uncomfortable way to carry.


It's actually very comfortable. I've carried this way for a couple years.



I just can't see it. My pants are snug enough, and who wants their grip poking them in the gut???
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:24:51 PM EST
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?


Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.

I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.


Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on.


In Texas you might be able to get away with that. In other states there will be times where self defense is justified but not lethal force.


Then why would you pull your gun in the first place? Or, more to the point, why would someone in one of those states need this retention device? Not all products fit the all the needs of all people.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:25:47 PM EST
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Based on the picture, I can't think of a more uncomfortable way to carry.


It's actually very comfortable. I've carried this way for a couple years.



I just can't see it. My pants are snug enough, and who wants their grip poking them in the gut???

You don't have to carry it in the appendix position.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:27:19 PM EST
[#16]
I saw a guy from Ghost Triggers using a holster just lke that about 6 months ago at a gunshow.  Wonder if it's a ripoff or it's been out for a while?
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:27:31 PM EST
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?


Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.

I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.


Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on.


In Texas you might be able to get away with that. In other states there will be times where self defense is justified but not lethal force.


Then why would you pull your gun in the first place?


Sometimes it starts out looking like a lethal force situation and then changes. Suspect drops his weapon but then wants to continue fighting unarmed. You gonna shoot a smaller weaker drug or alcohol impaired opponent because he used to be armed and is scuffling with you? You'll probably be okay in Texas. If I do it in Cali I'm going to prison.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:27:32 PM EST
[#18]





Quoted:





Quoted:


Based on the picture, I can't think of a more uncomfortable way to carry.
It's actually very comfortable. I've carried this way for a couple years.


If it's appendix you are referring to I've been carrying that way since around the summer of 06. I found it to be extremely comfortable and practical. I won't carry any other way.






Quoted:


I saw a guy from Ghost Triggers using a holster just lke that about 6
months ago at a gunshow.  Wonder if it's a ripoff or it's been out for a
while?
From what I understand Raven gave out a ton of them up to a year ago to people to test out before they went into full production.





 
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:29:20 PM EST
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?


Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.

I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.


Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on.


In Texas you might be able to get away with that. In other states there will be times where self defense is justified but not lethal force.


Then why would you pull your gun in the first place?


Sometimes it starts out looking like a lethal force situation and then changes. Suspect drops his weapon but then wants to continue fighting unarmed. You gonna shoot a smaller weaker drug or alcohol impaired opponent because he used to be armed and is scuffling with you? You'll probably be okay in Texas. If I do it in Cali I'm going to prison.


There was another point that I actually said was "more to the point" in the post you failed to quote or answer.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:31:26 PM EST
[#20]
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:33:52 PM EST
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?


Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.

I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.


Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on.


In Texas you might be able to get away with that. In other states there will be times where self defense is justified but not lethal force.


He didn't suggest shooting them. If there's a threat, my gun is out and available. If the threat is gone, I reapply the guard and go on.



You live in a very black and white world.  okay. I've got a screwdriver and I'm breaking into your car. You confront me with your gun drawn.  I throw the screw driver onto the roof. Now what? You've got me at gunpoint by your car but I'm unarmed. I decide to calmly walk up to you and open hand slap you accrossed the face. No attempt to take your gun. I'm just going to slap you like a bitch cause I'm a narrow assed 16 year old gangster wannabe. Simple assault, you cant shoot me. Hell my friend are filming it all on their cameras for youtube later. But are you going to stand there and let me slap you silly? you gonna go back inside and just leave me there? If so i go back to breaking into your car. We can keep that upall night. At some point you have to do something but shooting me isnt necessary or legally justified. So you need someplace to put that gun so you can deal with the threat. which is no longer a threat rising to a level justifying lethal force.

You of all people with your credentials know that just because you had your gun drawn, reasonably so, at the start doesnt mean the gun is your only or even the correct option as the situation changes.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:37:50 PM EST
[#22]
Quoted:

Quoted:

...A very compact way to carry a large gun with minimal bulk in relative safety.

SAFETY is *NOT* Relative...  Either it's SAFE - or it's NOT SAFE.

When dealing with a deadly weapon I prefer something to be SAFE - not RELATIVELY SAFE.

I like the brakes on my car to WORK, not relatively work...  

I foresee a couple more "My weapon fell, and I tried to catch it, and my finger pressed the trigger when catching it - shooting my wife on the other side of the wall" type threads or news stories...


All saftey measures are relative, if you don't understand that I envision you being injured quite a bit in your lifetime by things which are "safe." Any retention device which holds the gun inside it with the trigger covered is safer, relatively, than a holster which holds the gun but exposes the trigger. See, that's how relativity works.

The fact that your imagination can conjure a scenario where a device could through a series of unfortunate events not be perfectly safe leads me to believe that nothing could ever possibly be safe enough for you.

By the way, your brake system is a series of electrical, mechanical and hydraulic mechanisms which all work in concert to stop your vehicle. My mind can conjure up several hypothetical scenarios where, through a series of unfortunate events, it could be rendered unsafe as well.

Reality seldom deals in absolutes.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:40:38 PM EST
[#23]





That's a woman right?  Worse case she shoots her femoral artery

 
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:44:33 PM EST
[#24]
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:45:11 PM EST
[#25]
I think the designers and reviewers have acknowledged that this product has some shortcomings. If I can carry a full traditional holster I will. There are also certain circumstances where I think this product would work well.  



We can make hypothetical scenarios all day long to make a certain tactic, or product look bad.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:45:12 PM EST
[#26]
Quoted:

You live in a very black and white world.  okay. I've got a screwdriver and I'm breaking into your car.


In Texas we just shoot people for that, legally.

Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:48:10 PM EST
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:

You live in a very black and white world.  okay. I've got a screwdriver and I'm breaking into your car.


In Texas we just shoot people for that, legally.



Yep, which is why i said in Texas you can get away with shooting someone in many situations that would put the rest of us in prison. Texas is good that way.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:50:08 PM EST
[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You live in a very black and white world.  okay. I've got a screwdriver and I'm breaking into your car.





In Texas we just shoot people for that, legally.




Yep, which is why i said in Texas you can get away with shooting someone in many situations that would put the rest of us in prison. Texas is good that way.
I don't know about your state but in mine (NY) confronting a car burglar with a firearm pointed at him is not something I would do all.  Call me a pussy but I don't think I would do that in any state if it was legal.
 
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:51:44 PM EST
[#29]
Quoted:
Not even slightly interested in such a thing.  If that's what passes for "innovation" in the holster field, I'll stick with the old school stuff.



That.

Link Posted: 1/24/2012 2:56:28 PM EST
[#30]
Quoted:
Works for what it's intended to do. Friend picked one up at SHOT. Strong retention (with a G19). Looks like a good idea for summer.


That is exactly what this is intended for. I saw and played with a prototype of this a few years ago and while it wasn't my cup of tea (actually Mexican carry isn't...) it is a neat concept.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 3:00:18 PM EST
[#31]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

You live in a very black and white world.  okay. I've got a screwdriver and I'm breaking into your car.

In Texas we just shoot people for that, legally.
Yep, which is why i said in Texas you can get away with shooting someone in many situations that would put the rest of us in prison. Texas is good that way.
I don't know about your state but in mine (NY) confronting a car burglar with a firearm pointed at him is not something I would do all.  Call me a pussy but I don't think I would do that in any state if it was legal.

 


He didn't say confront.  He said shoot.  Bang.  Car burglar is dead.  No confronting needed.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 3:10:14 PM EST
[#32]
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 3:11:28 PM EST
[#33]
I just use a NY1 trigger in my Glock 33, no holster needed.









Yes I am serious and I don't give a hot-wet-rat-twat what the naysayers say..


 
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 3:15:28 PM EST
[#34]
I use the Zack Concealment Holster in combination with a belly band for my M&P9c  Work very well for me.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 3:28:03 PM EST
[#35]


Except for the thumb , I'm pretty sure that's a WOMAN

You can copy anything you want EXACTLY for your OWN use , just don't try an sell it
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 3:33:47 PM EST
[#36]
I would give it a try if I was given one. I'm not really sold on the idea and I would like to reholster quickly if needed. Gotta look at it this way.... Different tools for different jobs.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 3:36:49 PM EST
[#37]
Reholstering is overrated.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 4:05:53 PM EST
[#38]
If you watch the video I posted, you'll hear one of the guys that helped design and test the rig, Paul Gomez, say it's *NOT* designed for regular reholstering or training.  It's made to carry and that's it.  He goes over why they made it the way they made it and several other points.

Seriously, watch the video.

ETA:  Here's another one from arfcom's very own Sturmgewehre:

Link Posted: 1/24/2012 4:11:29 PM EST
[#39]
What is wrong with you fartknockers? Raven is not stoppong production on their other holsters in favor of this... If reholstering is your #1 priority get a Phantom.

I don't get this place sometimes.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 4:26:33 PM EST
[#40]
I was playing with these at SHOT and I'm very interested in picking one up.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 4:34:00 PM EST
[#41]
Quoted:
Have fun trying to reholster


Yeah that would make holstering my Glocks with short pull 3.5 triggers an interesting experience to say the least.

Link Posted: 1/24/2012 4:37:43 PM EST
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In what situation are you going to be reholstering it in the dark?


Self defense incidents are dramatic and the threat can escalate or de-escalate during the same incident. They also frequently occur at night. There are many situations where drawing your gun is reasonable but the situation suddenly changes and though still dangerous, is no longer a lethal force situation. Though you may still need both hands free to fight, flee, call for help, treat the injured or restrain the suspect.

I've been in situations that started out with my gun drawn but I had to hold my opponent with one hand and holster with the other in order to draw a less lethal weapon to continue the fight. You cant just shoot everbody because they are still fighting and you have a gun in your hand.


Ummmm .... not for nuthin' but, if I've got my gun out and pointed at someone, I'm not going to be re-holstering and going hands on.


In Texas you might be able to get away with that. In other states there will be times where self defense is justified but not lethal force.


He didn't suggest shooting them. If there's a threat, my gun is out and available. If the threat is gone, I reapply the guard and go on.



You live in a very black and white world.  okay. I've got a screwdriver and I'm breaking into your car. You confront me with your gun drawn.  I throw the screw driver onto the roof. Now what? You've got me at gunpoint by your car but I'm unarmed. I decide to calmly walk up to you and open hand slap you accrossed the face. No attempt to take your gun. I'm just going to slap you like a bitch cause I'm a narrow assed 16 year old gangster wannabe. Simple assault, you cant shoot me. Hell my friend are filming it all on their cameras for youtube later. But are you going to stand there and let me slap you silly? you gonna go back inside and just leave me there? If so i go back to breaking into your car. We can keep that upall night. At some point you have to do something but shooting me isnt necessary or legally justified. So you need someplace to put that gun so you can deal with the threat. which is no longer a threat rising to a level justifying lethal force.

You of all people with your credentials know that just because you had your gun drawn, reasonably so, at the start doesnt mean the gun is your only or even the correct option as the situation changes.


Walking up to someone who has a gun pointed at you would be plenty of justification to be ventilated. How would you know that they aren't going to try to take your gun and kill you with it or just are going to slap you? What kind of nonsense is that? But please continue with your ridiculous examples of why this is a bad CCW holster.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 5:53:40 PM EST
[#43]
Quoted:
What is wrong with you fartknockers? Raven is not stoppong production on their other holsters in favor of this... If reholstering is your #1 priority get a Phantom.

I don't get this place sometimes.


Just sometimes?

Yea, the lengths people go to create bizarre "what if" scenarios is amazing. What if an asteroid fell on my car at the same time a polar bear attacked? Some people just gotta be the coolest kid in class I guess.

The product is what it is. Its not my cup of tea. A good friend of mine swears by his. Oh yea, this guy is trained, carries daily and has given it a fair evaluation over a length of time. Then again, I'm not sure he's addressed any screw-driver wielding maniacs breaking into his car on a Tuesday while wearing green pants scenarios so his opinion might change.



Link Posted: 1/24/2012 6:08:35 PM EST
[#44]








Thanks for the link, hadn't seen such an in depth explanation of it. I can see why they are patenting it, the design goes beyond a simple trigger guard with a belt loop. I guess they wouldn't really be able to accomplish the design with just kydex material.





 
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 6:14:22 PM EST
[#45]
For a bunch of people  who make up situations to fit your argument for hating on a holster you have no idea about or ever touched or used i laugh.
why would you confront  a person stealing your car and risk escalating the situation to the point of lethal force? oh because you don't  like the holster

the holster is  made to carry a a gun  and conceal it for specific  roles and missions it fills a role guns  for many don't need to be put away in a hurry
often in some situations a simple grabbing of a newspaper or magazine can get you  by or a bag  or even a pocket in a pinch

I have used this rig for  about a year now in TE form and have carried it across the country  and the best thing is it doesn't scream holster or gun to scanners in airport  when i have a gun awaiting me at my destination

I have well over thousands of draws from it as do others with no hang ups or sight   snag issues this is because I have actually used it and carried it and worn it and practiced with it  have many of you?

what difference does it make of the holster for safety if it covers the trigger... it does as do standard holsters do you think that  hunk of leather or kydex at the bottom is going to stop a round you ND because of your own mistake? no it wont its not anymore dangerous... only dangerous user's do to lack of skill set and mindset

its not made as a duty rig its made to wear as an covert deep carry rig were in many places for many types who have been using this printing can and will get you dead.... and also as a secure way to toss into a back pack or  murse or purse and or other off body carry areas

it has its place and its role many whom are professionals  see this the average person may not sorry to say  like it or not  it fills a role and it works if its not for you great but don't knock it if you haven't had one or tried it with out understanding it there is a  big boy world out there besides the heated stall at the local range or uncle bobs backyard for practice and often  the gun is out and stays out for a long time and if time  cover and motive allow you then you can reholster it

get over it as a average gun carrier are you  really going to reholster and go hands on with some next upcoming  UFC type? who is 10-15 years younger than you?

or his 5 friends or are you going to use nike defense or glock  if it s out  its getting used....A HANDGUN IS NOT A MAGIC WAND WITH PIXIE DUST  THAT WHEN IT COMES OUT IT MAKES BAD MANS GO AWAY THIS ISNT  NARNIA

and raves are made to hug tight to the body  for concealment wow what a concept
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 6:31:40 PM EST
[#46]
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 6:40:52 PM EST
[#47]
Absolutely retarded holster.  The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW.  What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops?  You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers.  The only place that is true is in a holster.

Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 6:49:13 PM EST
[#48]
Quoted:
Absolutely retarded holster.  The ability to reholster one-handed is necessary for any holster for CCW.  What else you gonna do after a shooting while you wait for the cops?  You need your gun available but non-threatening to arriving officers.  The only place that is true is in a holster.

Well, unless you're okay with getting shot by the cops cause you're holding a gun when they show up, or getting shot by your assailant because you dropped your gun when the cops showed up.


If you have time to wait for the cops to show up, you would have time to reholster with the Vanguard. If you are holding the gun when they show up how is being able to holster it with one hand going to make one bit of difference?
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 6:49:30 PM EST
[#49]
Set the pistol on the ground.

If someone else is there, stand on it.
Link Posted: 1/24/2012 6:56:15 PM EST
[#50]
Quoted:
Have fun trying to reholster


This

and I'd rip my shirt on the front sight every time I changed clothes.
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