User Panel
They want all of our pie!
We must defend our pie to the last man! |
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I'd kind of like to know the bottom line here, also. Has something happened, or not? If it has, what, and by whom?
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If there's ANY subpoena at present, it has an automatic, mandatory gag-order attached to it.
I have been party to such a thing and I can speak to the certainties of the mandatory gag-orders which accompany nearly all such subpoenas nowdays. You have no freedom of speech, and even telling your wife that you have been served a subpoena could threaten your physical freedom. |
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Fair enough (and correct). The problem I have is that there are apprently "Enemies" out there that have "attacked" us. Now this MAY be .gov and/or some anti-gun/leftist types. If this was about Juan and Ed Sr. simply exercising their rights as owner of this site then I'd chalk it up to "philosophical differences" between them and the members of THEIR site, but it doesn't appear to be that at all. This APPEARS to be OUTSIDE pressure by people or organizations unknown that are FORCING the owners of this site to "lie low", not by their own choice but by FORCE. Anyway that you want to slice it, THAT SUCKS. If by anti-gun indviduals or groups, that makes any "appeasement" especially disgusting. |
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But the patriot act is a good thing that the .gov can use to catch terrorists and keep us safe. Fuck that shit. |
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Bang. That's exactly what I mean, and exactly why I started this thread. |
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ARFCOM has already been labeled an "extremist site" by the media after the Ryan Anderson case. If you thought thought that this placed was monitored heavily before you can bet your ass it is now. From the friendyl, to the moderates, to the down right anti's. It would be nice if arf said "Fuck you" and carried on business as usual, but then again not everyone is as Um-PC as I am. There's money involved here too. |
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And we should all act accordingly. If there is a supoena on this site, I can imagine the .gov has gotten all of our ip addy's and started tracking them as well, or at least a few of you guys () TXL |
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So if team members decide they want to leave, do they get a refund?
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TXLewis.... Act according to how/what?
The Federal Behavioral Code of Expression Standards? |
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I agree. But until GB decides to let us in on WHO is doing it, I don't see what can be done to stop any harassment he is receiving. Either way GB you are doing a great job, keep it up!!!! |
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Why would they? Has GB not lived up to his part of the bargain? is there some code that states that GB must rabidly fight everything that comes his way nomatter the consequences or costs? IF the site gets shut down by outside forces I doubt that after the legal bills are paid there will be much left to refund. |
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Kind of makes you wonder?
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/malkin200402130909.asp |
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Well, if the board changed in such a way that a team member wanted to no longer be associated with it, wouldn't they be entitled to have their money refunded, even if prorated?
EDIT: Never mind, I read the membership agreement. |
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To our benevolent Federal Government overseers:
For every 1 pimply-faced permanent adolescent advocating religion-based genocide on arfcom - there are 10 losers on DU threatening to “finally get a gun” if GW is re-elected. The only thing most of the keyboard kommandos here are capable of “rounding up” is their Mom’s secret Little Debbie snack stash. The blowhards here, for the most part, have already passed an NICS background check – it’s those weirdoes over on DU you have to watch out for. The Patriot Act police would be better off calling in Weight Watchers here and concentrating their efforts elsewhere – believe me. |
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It would be nice if we would all say to the government:" The constitution says I can do this,so fuck you and the existing laws.I am having as many machineguns,C4,etc as I want, because I am garanteed one in the 2nd ammendment,etc".............but not everyone is as UnPC as you are! Note:PD,this is not directed at you.I just wanted to use your line of thinking to be sarcastic about how we want to keep "redrawing the line" as the gov takes more and more of our righta away. |
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LMAO! |
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I know you're being but it begs the question... IF this site is actively on .gov's radar and has been for some time, what does that say that no one outside of select few knew about it? I'm NOT trying to point fingers because I sure as hell don't have enough information to something like that, but IF it has been that way I feel that we've been had. That this site is nothing more than a "honey pot" or, more accurately, "flypaper". I don't have enough Renyolds Wrap in the house to go any further with this right now. |
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Right on, Sarge.....Goatboy, in his position, has to do a huge balancing act between letting us rant and promoting 'hate speech' nowadays. I have said before that I DO NOT agree with everything done here....but I DO realize that things happen beyond my comprehension, and I have great respect for the guys who own/run/manage/moderate this site.......I think we'd all understand a bit better if we walked a mile in their shoes. And I think we all agree that the Avilas & co. are honorable enough men that, since we can't walk that mile in their shoes, we can just trust them to do what's best for the site. I wouldn't say that about many people, especially that I've never met, and certainly not a politician, but I think it can be said of the Avilas. I hope I'm not wrong. I like it here. |
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I won't repost the whole thing, but I'm still laughing. |
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I bet they just call my boss... TRG |
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Actually you could ,unfortunately the JBT's would shoot your dog, stomp your cat and kill your family. Unless of course you have superior numbers and will. Now the C4 bit is going a bit far, the Federalist Papaers tell us that we are entitled to the access of the same SMALL ARMS as the standing Army. "Small Arms" is defined as .50 caliber and under. I know you're not dumb Ed, but just because the government (or more specifically somoneone in the government) says you can/can't do something does not make them right. |
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Kinda' scary.
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... WTF cares?
... GoatBoy stated he had it handled, I believe him, he's a man of his word. If he needs your help he'll ask you for it I'm sure; so far as I know he hasn't asked. He also stated the obvious, (paraphrased) "if you're active on Internet blogs or gun-forums and you're not breaking the law, there's nothing to worry about". ... What could be more simple and clear than that? Now, do I believe there are shit-stirrers, banned-members troll-accounts, attention whores, true lunatics and drama queens on the site causing problems? Absolutely, probably %15 or more of the active accounts. |
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We were pissbags then, remember? NOW we are torch carriers for freedom. Funny how that works. Having said that, I know that GB and Ed. Sr. have to do what they have to do. It would be nice to know WTF is going on, but it's their show. I have to defer to them. I only ask that the standard be enforced uniformly for ALL members. If a comment is off limits in one thread, then it's always off limits (practical monitoring considerations accounted for of course). I can still pretty much say what I want to say here, and that's good. Mods who don't enforce the rules uniformly need to be removed however. And certain "grudges" and personality issues need to be dealt with before banning people. |
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If he's on base we've got David/Goliath problems. Did Alec Baldwin or Spike Lee get called out for their "outrageous" statements? I think the media was heehawing right next to them.... Like I said, if he's right it will be the same fight as the one for religious free speech where you can have it "in your own home..in the closet." Dan Rather can preach lies and the fourth estate (including conservatives like Debra Saunders) continues to play it down... Frankly I think they're afraid of losing their status to the new media types on the internet. That they disparage them as less than professional is just another clue to their superior liberaleliteness. Free speech out of control on the internet .....guess people don't really care for McCain Feingold "stand in the corner" legalisms. |
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I hereby nominate Dolomite for ARFCOM Press Secretary. Disarming the enemy through humour. |
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I did not imply that because the gov says something,the gov is right. On the contrary,I meant to bring out the fact that our rights have been trampled many times before,and we did nothing (as a people and through the past decades.......not individually) . Reading some posts, you would think the authors are "arms in hand", waiting to start an uprising to defend them.Or more accurately put,SAYING they are ready to defend them. VOTE<----This is our way of changing laws from intrusive and capricious to relaxed and with a practical purpose.When they become oppressive enough,some will rise............and I predict our side is least likely to count with those who are constantly beating the drums. YMMV |
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Ok let me clarify a few things...
1) You have to be pretty ignorant to think that no government agency every checks the site. I'm sure there's a number of offices who check on a regular basis. As I stated in another thread, we hear from everyone from the Military (lawyers usually who are tracking stolen goods) to the 3 letter big boys. Most of this isn't on a regular basis and we've had a number of great comments from the ATF supporting this site and how it's run. (We've even had people come to us and tell us they were referred to this site from the ATF!) 2) The site is NOT currently under, or involved with, any investigation of any sort. If and when something comes up, there's always a jumble of legalease involved. The only time the legal stuff is simple is with it's from the big boys, then it's a simple short little paragraph saying you will help or be in serious shit. There is no compromise or argument, and the matter is private under serious penalties. 3) We do not bend to anyone's will or pressure. There's been a few times when we've worked with the law to come to common agreements, all of which had nothing to do with the fabric of the site or how it's run. The reason we do not allow death threats is because of the shitstorm they bring once other parties are involved. There's absolutely no need to threaten a race, religion, or countries people with death threats. Wording is 90% of the problems you see here, most of the time they're simple misunderstandings. The point is we don't censor much, and when we redid the site earlier in the year, I toned down a LOT of these things to make the site less intrusive on discussions. (Shit, we even have the BOTD back and thriving!) All that's important with some of the BS I have had to deal with is that we adapt and find a way to do what we need to. Everything right now is fine with the exception of the last 24 hours of crap on the site. Nights when I accomplish nothing because I've had to deal with people going overboard because of an account lock really make me wonder why I bother. It's nice to see some people understand and get it, but the majority only care about what THEY want. Let me tell you, I had a serious discussion with the wife about being too tired to deal with the site's crap anymore. I already feel better about things today, but still... there's no reason why I should have to defend the same rule every few months. We will never allow death threats against people or groups to exist on this site. Talk all you want about cutting limbs or burning terrorists, but when you expand that hate to include everyone (key here is threats to innocents), then your stay here will be at risk. It's simple to avoid, just alter the way you type your message, and be specific. Hopefully, this will be the last post on the matter and that we can finish the discussion here and now on all of this. |
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Well I can certainly see where the owners of this site must feel like they are between a rock and a hard place. With all the nuts running loose in this world and maybe even on this site.
The Patriot Act: Who thought up that f#<king name? I don't see anything remotely Patriotic about focusing their magnifing glass on people who abide by the law, [soapbox ] One must remember,gun owners as a whole are probably the most patriotic people in this country of ours. I take this as an insult,if this is the case! Where to go from here? Not my site,not my problem....whatever,but this my opinion. I say sue the bastards, whoever it is that thinks they can come in here and force us to think as they want us to. I don't cotton to being told to say or act a certain way in fear of what "they" may think,but as said earlier,you can't condon the killing of inocent people. However you must stand up for what you believe in. I would be willing to kick some cash for legal defence. I say fire the first round Edit: Damn GB I wish I would have seen your post before I pecked out all of the above. |
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You guys have to realize something very important. Goatboy relies on service providers to connect to the Internet. Most providers have acceptable use policies that forbid the types of things like hate speech and death threats. All it takes is one complaint and one URL for some reactionary at whoever provides the service to this site to shut it down. And this is all above and beyond discrediting us as gun owners. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... |
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It would be illegal for him to consult anyone, inlcuding his lawyer. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... |
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He's already been tried and sentenced. The only thing they could possible be looking for now is collaborators and like-minded individuals. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... |
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for all the government monitors
to the Avilias, you have my full support in anything u gotta do. |
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Such a shit-storm from people with nothing to lose except a place to hang out on the computer all day.
The Avilas, OTOH, have *real* money, HUGE amounts of time, and "blood, sweat, and tears" invested in this place. It's amazing to me how anyone could fail to see that difference. |
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very true! |
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I've never seen a site get shut down. Can you name a couple?
Who has taken shots at AR15.com? What were the battles over which they won? I think if you were a little less obtuse it would help the situation with your members. |
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I'm *not* checking! |
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I agree. What more clarificatin could anyone possibly need after reading his post? |
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Maybe a "Who". How about a "What"? Sunshine cleanses. I want to know the answers to the simple questions I asked. Frankly, it sounds like tin-foil bullshit to me. "Pissed post-AWB liberals"? Yeah, right! What are they going to do? Whine? They already do that. Nothing like a little intrigue to boost ratings, eh? Just admit it, there's NEVER been any sites shut down due to this mysterious political/social force, and there's never been threats to AR15.com because of what's posted here. This is all BS to support current policy. If there is no desire to change the policy, fine. But don't make stuff up to sound all international mysterious. |
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Sort of related, I thought this might be relavent: I run a web hosting company. One of our customers posted a picture of an underage girl on his site (actually, it was a picture posting site, and one of *his* users uploaded the picture). Long story about who/what/where/how etc but the police contacted our bandwidth provider who then blocked all traffic to that IP address. So in effect the site was "shut down", and since it was a shared IP it brought down a few hundred other sites too. Unless you're a very big player there is always someone else upstream from you. |
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