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Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:42:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pegleggreg:
Friend of mine shot himself in the stomach with a .45 1911 2-3wks ago. He met the police/ambulance in the street & handed the pistol & his house phone to the officer, asked the officer to toss the phone into the house & pull the door to (he already locked the handle).

He later learned the police dug the projectile out of the wall, and went thru his house and collected all his guns and took them. While recovering in the hospital, his wife retrieved all the guns, including the 1911 - they wouldn't give her the projectile, though - called it biohazzerdous material.

He's pretty pturbed & figures it was probably illegal. (Occured in a small town - Plant City FL)


I don't know who I would be more perturbed with...myself for trusting the police to do something I should have done myself...or the police for (apparently) going way overboard and endangering the wife's life by leaving her unarmed!  
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:42:38 PM EDT



Originally Posted By 20shooter:


OK, I'm the shooter in this (20shooter, as in Glock 20––-which was used)––-let's clear some things up. The reason I went to the newspaper was because this was such a cluster-fuck. My previous 20+ years was in a whole different county four hours away. It might as well been 4,000 miles away. I worked with the S.O.'s background investigators, but I knew no patrol deputies. My old contacts had retired, like I had.



As for the driver at the time of the shooting, my background as a cop, training officer, firearms instructor, city dweller and country bumpkin, not to mention handling several thousand calls for service over the years, led me to believe this asshole was up yo no good. Cut to the chase, if you hold your ground one on one with a car, you will lose. I've seen it, and I have been involved in two other shootings involving suspects in vehicles (both resulting in felony arrests with no injured cops––-and one shot up suspect). He committed an ADW on me, I shot out his tires to facilitate his arrest. As a civilian, I'm no longer bound to follow a "policy", but applicable laws. I expected an intelligent and measured police response––––I did not get it.



Brian, I would guess I was fighting PCP dealers when you were shiitin' your diapers. Get some life experience under your belt!


You got lucky you had a lenient DA in that county.
 
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:43:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By 20shooter:
When I shot the tires out of a paroled murderers car who was prowling my yard at 11PM, I gave the Sheriff the pistol I used. They ended up serving a search warrant on my house to take otherguns. The deputies that night were totally HUA. ALWAYS stash/secure some for a Plan B type situation. Link to article is:http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2009/04/11/news/2_beckman_090411.txt


Not sure what to make of your situation - that linked article leaves me me with more questions than it answered and anyone with your LE experience shouldn't be calling a guy convicted of voluntary manslaughter a murderer.

Brian




WTF would you do, Brian, if this guy drove up your driveway with his lights off and tried to run you over?



"Vega was convicted of voluntary manslaughter in a 1998 homicide and sentenced to six years, according to court records. He then was convicted of assault while in prison and sentenced to another four years, according to California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation records."

"Five months after the incident at Beckman’s house, Stockton police arrested Vega in connection with a gang-related shooting. Now 28, Vega is currently back in prison after pleading no contest to being a felon in possession of a firearm."


First of all, at the time of the shooting Beckman had no idea who was behind the wheel of the car - nice try but no dice on that one.

Second, if the driver tried to run me over I would be shooting at the driver - not the tires.

I'd really like to read the police reports - we're not getting the full story on this one (yet).  Something is off with someone's story when a retired cop, DA investigator, current probation dept investigator is arrested for ADW and a paroled/released felon is sent home w/o any charges.......

Brian




Soak it all in...get that brain in gear:


from the article:

"As deputies wrote a search warrant, Beckman was driven half an hour away to the county jail in French Camp. There he was booked and strip searched — something he said was very humiliating."

"He [Beckman] remained there until 36 hours had passed, when prosecutors decided not to file charges".




Did you miss the blue high lite in my original post?  Apparently I"m not the only one that thinks the linked article sucks.

Based on your vast experience in the legal system can you tell us exactly why the DA didn't file charges?  Care to explain the difference between PC for arrest and guilty beyond a reasonable doubt - you know, the different standards for cops on the street and DA's in court?  Trespassing at night is not a lethal force event in CA....

Given all the after the fact info about Vega, I'd say it was "good shoot" but unfortunately Beckman didn't kill Vega and save the state a lot of money.  Like I said, I think there's a backstory we're not hearing about.

Brian



Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:43:24 PM EDT
They take your gun because of the high propensity for people to kill themselves after killing another person, shitbag burgler or not.

/Thread.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:43:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BadShovelhead:
Originally Posted By LGK:
you didn't commit a crime.

they shouldn't take anything


They have to investigate to come to that conclusion. I am sure more than a few people shoot someone in their home claim it was a robbery or invasion and it was a drug deal gone bad. A cop would have to be a complete fool and negligent in his duties to not investigate this properly.

I don't want cops seizing anyhting wrongfully but you gotta understand there is some legit reasoning here.


1) He raped me = prostitute didn't get paid.
2) I was robbed = the drug dealer took my money without giving me drugs.
3) I was carjacked = I didn't have any money, so I loaned my car to the drug dealers instead and they didn't bring it back.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:44:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pegleggreg:
Friend of mine shot himself in the stomach with a .45 1911 2-3wks ago. He met the police/ambulance in the street & handed the pistol & his house phone to the officer, asked the officer to toss the phone into the house & pull the door to (he already locked the handle).

He later learned the police dug the projectile out of the wall, and went thru his house and collected all his guns and took them. While recovering in the hospital, his wife retrieved all the guns, including the 1911 - they wouldn't give her the projectile, though - called it biohazzerdous material.

He's pretty pturbed & figures it was probably illegal. (Occured in a small town - Plant City FL)


Warrant? Or like TD308 said, did they have a reason to believe it's a suicide attempt?
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:44:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tel0004:
I think the fact they take even that one is dumb.  

They should apologize for any inconvenience, get rid of the bad guy, and give you a 5.00 gift certificate to replace the ammo you had to use.



Not dumb. All homicides need to be investigated and evidence that might end up in a murder trial should be collected. Once the investigation is complete, and the shooting is ruled to be justifiable case of self defense, the property is returned.


Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:46:46 PM EDT
Ain't gettin' any of mine.  They just have to take my word.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:48:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:49:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dr_Dickie:
All what guns?
I only own this one!
No, wait, I used this one, right?



That is what i would say.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:51:27 PM EDT
Bottom line/final word from me on this––––––-learn from my experience! Think about your go-to gun, safety, communication, lighting, alarm systems, and your own training. Be sure of your local departments leanings on citizen use of force/firearms.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:51:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Well, if I have to shoot a bad guy, I'll have to use my POS glock because they ain't taking a $3k Nighthawk Custom


Getting off topic, what is the point of owning such a fine firearm if you never intend to use it?
Why not just standardize on the Glock (or another replaceable firearm) and spend that extra money on training and ammo?




Maybe he just enjoys the fine craftsmanship of a well put together 1911.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:52:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:54:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 20shooter:
Bottom line/final word from me on this––––––-learn from my experience! Think about your go-to gun, safety, communication, lighting, alarm systems, and your own training. Be sure of your local departments leanings on citizen use of force/firearms.




Ive read that it is recomended to not make a statement initially because the stress of a life or death situation can impair your perception of the events.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:55:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:57:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Elvis-Ar15:
Bury the body and don't call the cops.






















































Just kidding of course corpse.



fixed

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:57:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By 20shooter:
When I shot the tires out of a paroled murderers car who was prowling my yard at 11PM, I gave the Sheriff the pistol I used. They ended up serving a search warrant on my house to take otherguns. The deputies that night were totally HUA. ALWAYS stash/secure some for a Plan B type situation. Link to article is:http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2009/04/11/news/2_beckman_090411.txt


Not sure what to make of your situation - that linked article leaves me me with more questions than it answered and anyone with your LE experience shouldn't be calling a guy convicted of voluntary manslaughter a murderer.

Brian




WTF would you do, Brian, if this guy drove up your driveway with his lights off and tried to run you over?



"Vega was convicted of voluntary manslaughter in a 1998 homicide and sentenced to six years, according to court records. He then was convicted of assault while in prison and sentenced to another four years, according to California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation records."

"Five months after the incident at Beckman’s house, Stockton police arrested Vega in connection with a gang-related shooting. Now 28, Vega is currently back in prison after pleading no contest to being a felon in possession of a firearm."


First of all, at the time of the shooting Beckman had no idea who was behind the wheel of the car - nice try but no dice on that one.

Second, if the driver tried to run me over I would be shooting at the driver - not the tires.

I'd really like to read the police reports - we're not getting the full story on this one (yet).  Something is off with someone's story when a retired cop, DA investigator, current probation dept investigator is arrested for ADW and a paroled/released felon is sent home w/o any charges.......

Brian




Soak it all in...get that brain in gear:


from the article:

"As deputies wrote a search warrant, Beckman was driven half an hour away to the county jail in French Camp. There he was booked and strip searched — something he said was very humiliating."

"He [Beckman] remained there until 36 hours had passed, when prosecutors decided not to file charges".




Did you miss the blue high lite in my original post?  Apparently I"m not the only one that thinks the linked article sucks.

Based on your vast experience in the legal system can you tell us exactly why the DA didn't file charges?  Care to explain the difference between PC for arrest and guilty beyond a reasonable doubt - you know, the different standards for cops on the street and DA's in court?  Trespassing at night is not a lethal force event in CA....

Given all the after the fact info about Vega, I'd say it was "good shoot" but unfortunately Beckman didn't kill Vega and save the state a lot of money.  Like I said, I think there's a backstory we're not hearing about.

Brian






So you admit it was a "good shoot". WTF are you whining about then?

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 3:59:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2009 4:08:55 PM EDT by brian4wd]
Originally Posted By 20shooter:
OK, I'm the shooter in this (20shooter, as in Glock 20––-which was used)––-let's clear some things up. The reason I went to the newspaper was because this was such a cluster-fuck. My previous 20+ years was in a whole different county four hours away. It might as well been 4,000 miles away. I worked with the S.O.'s background investigators, but I knew no patrol deputies. My old contacts had retired, like I had.

As for the driver at the time of the shooting, my background as a cop, training officer, firearms instructor, city dweller and country bumpkin, not to mention handling several thousand calls for service over the years, led me to believe this asshole was up yo no good. Not disputing this at allCut to the chase, if you hold your ground one on one with a car, you will lose.Totally agree I've seen it, and I have been involved in two other shootings involving suspects in vehicles (both resulting in felony arrests with no injured cops––-and one shot up suspect). He committed an ADW on me,Linked article isn't clear about when/why you shot  I shot out his tires to facilitate his arrest So you weren't in reasonable fear of GBI or death when you fired ~10 times?. As a civilian, I'm no longer bound to follow a "policy", but applicable laws.Remind me what laws cover deadly force.  IIRC, applicable law would cover you killing the driver in an ADW situation I expected an intelligent and measured police response––––I did not get it. Why not? What happened to cause the SO to change their minds/determine they had PC for an arrest?  What did the deputies PC statement say regarding the elements of 245?

Brian, I would guess I was fighting PCP dealers when you were shiitin' your diapers. Get some life experience under your belt! You started in B-Field in '74 - I'm almost 40?  Kern County was still a US Territory back then  One of my best friends lives off Rosedale/Jenkins - I'm pretty familiar with Bakersfield and Kern County.



Brian

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:00:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By LGK:
you didn't commit a crime.

they shouldn't take anything


How does an officer determine if crime was committed or not?

Brian



He doesn't, courts do. I would be interested in seeing how the officers articulated their belief that the weapons were evidence of a crime, particularly if the weapons seized were not of the type used in the shooting.



Poor choice of words on my part.

Brian

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:02:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By army_eod:
Ain't gettin' any of mine.  They just have to take my word.


Of course not.......

Brian

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:04:32 PM EDT



Originally Posted By BadShovelhead:



Originally Posted By rkbar15:




Originally Posted By pale_pony:

Well, if I have to shoot a bad guy, I'll have to use my POS glock because they ain't taking a $3k Nighthawk Custom


Good idea because in some jurisdictions you'll never see the gun again.

 




no its a really bad idea. Anyone that would use a what they consider a POS protect their family is derelict in his or her duties


I understand what you're saying but I'm pretty sure a $500 Glock 30 will be as effective in protecting your family as a $3k Nighthawk.





 
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:05:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By LGK:
you didn't commit a crime.

they shouldn't take anything


How does an officer determine if crime was committed or not?

Brian



He doesn't, courts do. I would be interested in seeing how the officers articulated their belief that the weapons were evidence of a crime, particularly if the weapons seized were not of the type used in the shooting.



An officer on the scene is not a forensic speicalist.




Obviously.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:05:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By USGI_45:
Originally Posted By 20shooter:
Bottom line/final word from me on this––––––-learn from my experience! Think about your go-to gun, safety, communication, lighting, alarm systems, and your own training. Be sure of your local departments leanings on citizen use of force/firearms.




Ive read that it is recomended to not make a statement initially because the stress of a life or death situation can impair your perception of the events.



Among other reasons, yes.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:06:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By 20shooter:
When I shot the tires out of a paroled murderers car who was prowling my yard at 11PM, I gave the Sheriff the pistol I used. They ended up serving a search warrant on my house to take otherguns. The deputies that night were totally HUA. ALWAYS stash/secure some for a Plan B type situation. Link to article is:http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2009/04/11/news/2_beckman_090411.txt


Not sure what to make of your situation - that linked article leaves me me with more questions than it answered and anyone with your LE experience shouldn't be calling a guy convicted of voluntary manslaughter a murderer.

Brian




WTF would you do, Brian, if this guy drove up your driveway with his lights off and tried to run you over?



"Vega was convicted of voluntary manslaughter in a 1998 homicide and sentenced to six years, according to court records. He then was convicted of assault while in prison and sentenced to another four years, according to California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation records."

"Five months after the incident at Beckman’s house, Stockton police arrested Vega in connection with a gang-related shooting. Now 28, Vega is currently back in prison after pleading no contest to being a felon in possession of a firearm."


First of all, at the time of the shooting Beckman had no idea who was behind the wheel of the car - nice try but no dice on that one.

Second, if the driver tried to run me over I would be shooting at the driver - not the tires.

I'd really like to read the police reports - we're not getting the full story on this one (yet).  Something is off with someone's story when a retired cop, DA investigator, current probation dept investigator is arrested for ADW and a paroled/released felon is sent home w/o any charges.......

Brian




Soak it all in...get that brain in gear:


from the article:

"As deputies wrote a search warrant, Beckman was driven half an hour away to the county jail in French Camp. There he was booked and strip searched — something he said was very humiliating."

"He [Beckman] remained there until 36 hours had passed, when prosecutors decided not to file charges".




Did you miss the blue high lite in my original post?  Apparently I"m not the only one that thinks the linked article sucks.

Based on your vast experience in the legal system can you tell us exactly why the DA didn't file charges?  Care to explain the difference between PC for arrest and guilty beyond a reasonable doubt - you know, the different standards for cops on the street and DA's in court?  Trespassing at night is not a lethal force event in CA....

Given all the after the fact info about Vega, I'd say it was "good shoot" but unfortunately Beckman didn't kill Vega and save the state a lot of money.  Like I said, I think there's a backstory we're not hearing about.

Brian






So you admit it was a "good shoot". WTF are you whining about then?



Umm, you're the one whining - I never said it was bad shoot.  I said I didn't know what to make of his situation because the linked article left me with more questions than it answered - apparently in your world that equates to "Bad shoot".

Brian

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:07:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By BadShovelhead:
Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Well, if I have to shoot a bad guy, I'll have to use my POS glock because they ain't taking a $3k Nighthawk Custom

Good idea because in some jurisdictions you'll never see the gun again.
 


no its a really bad idea. Anyone that would use a what they consider a POS protect their family is derelict in his or her duties

I understand what you're saying but I'm pretty sure a $500 Glock 30 will be as effective in protecting your family as a $3k Nighthawk.

 


I disagree, but my preferences in carry guns are well known around here.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:08:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By 20shooter:
When I shot the tires out of a paroled murderers car who was prowling my yard at 11PM, I gave the Sheriff the pistol I used. They ended up serving a search warrant on my house to take otherguns. The deputies that night were totally HUA. ALWAYS stash/secure some for a Plan B type situation. Link to article is:http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2009/04/11/news/2_beckman_090411.txt


Not sure what to make of your situation - that linked article leaves me me with more questions than it answered and anyone with your LE experience shouldn't be calling a guy convicted of voluntary manslaughter a murderer.

Brian




WTF would you do, Brian, if this guy drove up your driveway with his lights off and tried to run you over?



"Vega was convicted of voluntary manslaughter in a 1998 homicide and sentenced to six years, according to court records. He then was convicted of assault while in prison and sentenced to another four years, according to California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation records."

"Five months after the incident at Beckman’s house, Stockton police arrested Vega in connection with a gang-related shooting. Now 28, Vega is currently back in prison after pleading no contest to being a felon in possession of a firearm."


First of all, at the time of the shooting Beckman had no idea who was behind the wheel of the car - nice try but no dice on that one.

Second, if the driver tried to run me over I would be shooting at the driver - not the tires.

I'd really like to read the police reports - we're not getting the full story on this one (yet).  Something is off with someone's story when a retired cop, DA investigator, current probation dept investigator is arrested for ADW and a paroled/released felon is sent home w/o any charges.......

Brian




Soak it all in...get that brain in gear:


from the article:

"As deputies wrote a search warrant, Beckman was driven half an hour away to the county jail in French Camp. There he was booked and strip searched — something he said was very humiliating."

"He [Beckman] remained there until 36 hours had passed, when prosecutors decided not to file charges".




Did you miss the blue high lite in my original post?  Apparently I"m not the only one that thinks the linked article sucks.

Based on your vast experience in the legal system can you tell us exactly why the DA didn't file charges?  Care to explain the difference between PC for arrest and guilty beyond a reasonable doubt - you know, the different standards for cops on the street and DA's in court?  Trespassing at night is not a lethal force event in CA....

Given all the after the fact info about Vega, I'd say it was "good shoot" but unfortunately Beckman didn't kill Vega and save the state a lot of money.  Like I said, I think there's a backstory we're not hearing about.

Brian






So you admit it was a "good shoot". WTF are you whining about then?



Umm, you're the one whining - I never said it was bad shoot.  I said I didn't know what to make of his situation because the linked article left me with more questions than it answered - apparently in your world that equates to "Bad shoot".

Brian




 Another thread turned to diarrhea, courtesy of Brian 4WD.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:09:59 PM EDT
my $3k Nighthawk is on my hip. It is the first gun I would go to if I had to defend myself, no gun is worth my life.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:15:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
[  Another thread turned to diarrhea, courtesy of Brian 4WD.



"Hi, my name is Pot - you must be Kettle."  

Brian

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:18:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 94five0:
Originally Posted By tel0004:
I think the fact they take even that one is dumb.  

They should apologize for any inconvenience, get rid of the bad guy, and give you a 5.00 gift certificate to replace the ammo you had to use.


I agree. but under the definition of a crime, more than one crime has been committed. 1 charge of robbery/Home invasion. 1 charge of assault with a deadly weapon< which would be easily overturned by Castle Doctrine/self defense. they will take your weapon, as a precautionary measure in securing the scene.

If the weapon used during the act is present, it's a piece of  real evidence linked to the crime. No jury in the world (save for a libtard CA, NY /Mass jury would rightly convict you) but let's get the parameters of SD correct. there is a high probability of retaliation in SD cases, especially if you did not kill the intruder.

If there is even a miniscule portion of the act, that negated the threat displayed by the offender, S/D is out of the question and it's Aggravated Assault. I.E shooting someone in the back/fleeing.

unless they have a search warrant, no dice on anything else.



Shooting someone in the back does not rule out a good shoot.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:20:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Maynard:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Originally Posted By peekay:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Originally Posted By tel0004:
I think the fact they take even that one is dumb.

They should apologize for any inconvenience, get rid of the bad guy, and give you a 5.00 gift certificate to replace the ammo you had to use.


Yes, heaven forbid the police don't take people at their word and do a little investigating.

After taking every gun in the house, of course.


Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
If I shoot someone, my dept takes the gun I used in the shooting - to expect otherwise is...I don't even have a word for it.
When you have a shooting, the police will likely take the gun you used, as they should, in order to verify your story.
They should not take all of your guns, and I doubt they would except under extreme circumstances.


I'm curious as to what "extreme circumstances" would be?

I was upset that LEOs confiscated the Ohio pizza shop owner's pistol after he shot a robber in his store effectively leaving him defenseless. There were eyewitnesses in the shop at the time who more than likely corroborated the owner's account of what happened and why he felt needed to defend himself but they still took his pistol.

Not all people have more than one gun and some people don't have the means to turn around and buy another if they have to use it in a self defense scenario.

The policy of confiscating guns used in shootings where the accounts point to it being a righteous shoot seems to be punitive and not in the best interest of the citizen.



This.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:25:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:26:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:58:54 PM EDT
I defer to 20Shooter's experience.  I would probably have let the guy drive off and called the cops with his license.  If I truly felt he was aiming his car to hit me, I would've shot through the windshield.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 5:01:03 PM EDT




Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:



Originally Posted By Sleepy1988:



Originally Posted By Maynard:





Originally Posted By thedoctors308:



Originally Posted By peekay:





Originally Posted By thedoctors308:



Originally Posted By tel0004:

I think the fact they take even that one is dumb.



They should apologize for any inconvenience, get rid of the bad guy, and give you a 5.00 gift certificate to replace the ammo you had to use.




Yes, heaven forbid the police don't take people at their word and do a little investigating.


After taking every gun in the house, of course.




Yes, that's exactly what I meant.


If I shoot someone, my dept takes the gun I used in the shooting - to expect otherwise is...I don't even have a word for it.

When you have a shooting, the police will likely take the gun you used, as they should, in order to verify your story.

They should not take all of your guns, and I doubt they would except under extreme circumstances.




I'm curious as to what "extreme circumstances" would be?



I was upset that LEOs confiscated the Ohio pizza shop owner's pistol after he shot a robber in his store effectively leaving him defenseless. There were eyewitnesses in the shop at the time who more than likely corroborated the owner's account of what happened and why he felt needed to defend himself but they still took his pistol.



Not all people have more than one gun and some people don't have the means to turn around and buy another if they have to use it in a self defense scenario.



The policy of confiscating guns used in shootings where the accounts point to it being a righteous shoot seems to be punitive and not in the best interest of the citizen.







This.




It's evidence. Evidence is collected, this includes firearms.





By all accounts from the Ohio pizza shop shooting, there was no crime committed. It was later determined that there had indeed been no crime but that it was a good shoot and the pistol was returned.



In the interim, he was defenseless until an ARFcom member stepped up and did the right thing.



Why would there need to be evidence collected if there was no crime, it didn't appear there had been a crime committed and witnesses corroborated the story or they would have arrested the pizza shop owner.



Also, can we define "extreme circumstances."  



Would extreme circumstances be if an AR was used in a self defense situation?



I'm not trying to badger here, I'd really like some insight please.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 5:10:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Maynard:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Sleepy1988:
Originally Posted By Maynard:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Originally Posted By peekay:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Originally Posted By tel0004:
I think the fact they take even that one is dumb.

They should apologize for any inconvenience, get rid of the bad guy, and give you a 5.00 gift certificate to replace the ammo you had to use.


Yes, heaven forbid the police don't take people at their word and do a little investigating.

After taking every gun in the house, of course.


Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
If I shoot someone, my dept takes the gun I used in the shooting - to expect otherwise is...I don't even have a word for it.
When you have a shooting, the police will likely take the gun you used, as they should, in order to verify your story.
They should not take all of your guns, and I doubt they would except under extreme circumstances.


I'm curious as to what "extreme circumstances" would be?

I was upset that LEOs confiscated the Ohio pizza shop owner's pistol after he shot a robber in his store effectively leaving him defenseless. There were eyewitnesses in the shop at the time who more than likely corroborated the owner's account of what happened and why he felt needed to defend himself but they still took his pistol.

Not all people have more than one gun and some people don't have the means to turn around and buy another if they have to use it in a self defense scenario.

The policy of confiscating guns used in shootings where the accounts point to it being a righteous shoot seems to be punitive and not in the best interest of the citizen.



This.


It's evidence. Evidence is collected, this includes firearms.


By all accounts from the Ohio pizza shop shooting, there was no crime committed. It was later determined that there had indeed been no crime but that it was a good shoot and the pistol was returned. Isn't that the way the system should work?

In the interim, he was defenseless until an ARFcom member stepped up and did the right thing. Not really any different than if a car is seized and it's the guys only car.  Should the PD lend someone a car or firearm during the course of the investigation?

Why would there need to be evidence collected if there was no crime, it didn't appear there had been a crime committed and witnesses corroborated the story or they would have arrested the pizza shop owner. Some types of investigations take longer than others - not everything is resolved by patrol officers at the scene.

Also, can we define "extreme circumstances."  

Would extreme circumstances be if an AR was used in a self defense situation?

I'm not trying to badger here, I'd really like some insight please.


Brian

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 5:12:45 PM EDT
Never invite the man into your life.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 5:17:43 PM EDT
In communist NY they take EVERYTHING.

A friend of mine had the police come to his house because of an argument with his soon to be ex-wife; they took his pistol permit, pistols, long guns, paintball guns, and they were going to take his nailguns.

To this day they still have his permit and handguns & he's going to have to get a lawyer to get them back.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 5:23:15 PM EDT
in iowa a guy threatened to shoot his neighbors dog and they took all his guns
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 5:33:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 7:39:25 PM EDT
1 you used., unless there on legal issues with the other ones.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 7:40:38 PM EDT
Try it and report back.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 8:32:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2009 8:32:56 PM EDT by EternalVigilance]
I would have no problem with them taking the firearm used for the time being, I understand that.  I would be fucking pissed if they tried to take them all.

In that event I might "forget" a few safe combination's.    In reality though...I'd probably just let them take all of them (as pissed off as I would be), and then promptly borrow another one from a friend or family member.


I am really starting to consider hiding a spare pistol...normally all of my firearms on are my person or in one of the safes.  That is the way I prefer to do things...but maybe I need to reconsider an exception...
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 9:11:23 PM EDT
Here's the main problem - "Beckman got his Glock 10 handgun and a large flashlight." - Glock 10's are illegal in California.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 9:12:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tel0004:
I think the fact they take even that one is dumb.  

They should apologize for any inconvenience, get rid of the bad guy, and give you a 5.00 gift certificate to replace the ammo you had to use.


$5 dollars... that might not buy too much carry ammo.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 9:18:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Originally Posted By 20shooter:
When I shot the tires out of a paroled murderers car who was prowling my yard at 11PM, I gave the Sheriff the pistol I used. They ended up serving a search warrant on my house to take otherguns. The deputies that night were totally HUA. ALWAYS stash/secure some for a Plan B type situation. Link to article is:http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2009/04/11/news/2_beckman_090411.txt



I just read the article, and I am FOOKING PISSED OFF for what you had to go through. I hate to say it, but nothing surprises me anymore what cops will do.



Holy shit!  I would come close to losing it if I was treated that way after defending myself.

I hope Beckman sues the everliving fuck out of that department.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 9:26:04 PM EDT
I have been told by cops dead bad guy = less paperwork thus happier ending for the police any LE care to verify that?


The only time I have ever had to draw I did not have to fire, I was however told I was within my rights to do so.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 9:27:37 PM EDT
A shooting = All kinds of fucked up....for everyone.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 9:30:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Bitmap:
Originally Posted By 94five0:
Originally Posted By tel0004:
I think the fact they take even that one is dumb.  

They should apologize for any inconvenience, get rid of the bad guy, and give you a 5.00 gift certificate to replace the ammo you had to use.


I agree. but under the definition of a crime, more than one crime has been committed. 1 charge of robbery/Home invasion. 1 charge of assault with a deadly weapon< which would be easily overturned by Castle Doctrine/self defense. they will take your weapon, as a precautionary measure in securing the scene.

If the weapon used during the act is present, it's a piece of  real evidence linked to the crime. No jury in the world (save for a libtard CA, NY /Mass jury would rightly convict you) but let's get the parameters of SD correct. there is a high probability of retaliation in SD cases, especially if you did not kill the intruder.

If there is even a miniscule portion of the act, that negated the threat displayed by the offender, S/D is out of the question and it's Aggravated Assault. I.E shooting someone in the back/fleeing.

unless they have a search warrant, no dice on anything else.



Shooting someone in the back does not rule out a good shoot.


Keep that in mind in the next LEO shot someone in the back thread.

BTW, I agree.


+1  I hate the "can't shoot someone in the back" BS.   I can imagine plenty of cases where shooting a person in the back is acceptable.  The question to ask is: "Is my or someone else's life endanger if I don't shoot."   If civilians and police follow that question (and have decent judgment) I won't be criticizing him or her.

I always here.   If say some crazy fucker with a knife  is running towards my 11 year old cousin and I have a clear shot at his back, I will take that shot without hesitation.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 10:54:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 94five0:
Originally Posted By tel0004:
I think the fact they take even that one is dumb.  

They should apologize for any inconvenience, get rid of the bad guy, and give you a 5.00 gift certificate to replace the ammo you had to use.


I agree. but under the definition of a crime, more than one crime has been committed. 1 charge of robbery/Home invasion. 1 charge of assault with a deadly weapon< which would be easily overturned by Castle Doctrine/self defense. they will take your weapon, as a precautionary measure in securing the scene.

If the weapon used during the act is present, it's a piece of  real evidence linked to the crime. No jury in the world (save for a libtard CA, NY /Mass jury would rightly convict you) but let's get the parameters of SD correct. there is a high probability of retaliation in SD cases, especially if you did not kill the intruder.

If there is even a miniscule portion of the act, that negated the threat displayed by the offender, S/D is out of the question and it's Aggravated Assault. I.E shooting someone in the back/fleeing.

unless they have a search warrant, no dice on anything else.



Keerist another hick showing his abyssmally ignorant knowledge of the world. CA has had an extremely "liberal" (as in loose and free) use of force in the home law since before you were born.

What is taken is probably dependent on the state and the circumstances.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 10:55:59 PM EDT
Assume that they will take all your weapons if given the chance.  So keep your other guns out of the picture.  They can't take them if they don't know about them.
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