If it comes down to that, we can thank GW Bush for putting us in this position, the way that smart people thanked GHW Bush got giving us Billy in '92.  Stupid people will blame Ron Paul the way stupid people blamed Perot.  But is comes down to the same thing -- if GW Bush or GHW Bush had acted like a conservative, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, I would come on here and say I voted for Rudy.  Not my first choice for the office, but better than having to Say President Clinton again.   Both, I believe, would enact major gun control so how is having Rudy any different than having Hitlery?   Are you aware that there are other issues besides gun control? Like the war we are fighting? Like the socialist agenda that Hillary will try to push?

The same socialist agenda that Rudy will push and has been pushing ?

Rudy or Hillary. Voting for the lesser of two evils, pure and simple

We in IL just went threw this for Governor. I popular leftist and a moderate Republican. The Republican got her ass handed to her and the same is going to happen to Rudy.

Quoted: Rudy or Hillary. Voting for the lesser of two evils, pure and simple

NO! They are the same level of evil. Different side of the same coin. Rudy is a Republican In Name Only (RINO)

Vote 3rd party.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, I would come on here and say I voted for Rudy.  Not my first choice for the office, but better than having to Say President Clinton again.   Both, I believe, would enact major gun control so how is having Rudy any different than having Hitlery?   Are you aware that there are other issues besides gun control? Like the war we are fighting? Like the socialist agenda that Hillary will try to push? The same socialist agenda that Rudy will push and has been pushing ?

Find me a link that explains Rudy's socialized medicine plan.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, I would come on here and say I voted for Rudy.  Not my first choice for the office, but better than having to Say President Clinton again.   Both, I believe, would enact major gun control so how is having Rudy any different than having Hitlery?   Are you aware that there are other issues besides gun control? Like the war we are fighting? Like the socialist agenda that Hillary will try to push? The same socialist agenda that Rudy will push and has been pushing ? Find me a link that explains Rudy's socialized medicine plan.

I've been searching for this too.  Again, I'm trying to figure out the specifics on what he has proposed that he would do as president that is considered a social agenda.

Seriously

Quoted: Quoted: For those of you who say that if it comes down to Rudy and Hitlery that we gun owners should vote for Rudy or risk electing Hitlery by not voting or voting 3rd party, I have a question.  If it comes down to these two in the general election and you vote for Rudy and he wins, will you be willing to come back on here and openly post that you voted for the lesser of two evils when Rudy starts passing major gun control.  Will you be willing to openly apologize to gun owners everywhere for your part in bringing about new gun laws.  Why do we continue as a society and specifically as gun owners to keep giving a little here and there only to get nothing in return?  When will we stand up as Americans and vote for the right candidate?  Wake up Sheeple, we are actively giving our rights away when we vote for the lesser of two evils. Explain how a president passes legislation.

Pardon me.  Sign legislation into law would have been a better way to state that, but can we get back to the topic.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: For those of you who say that if it comes down to Rudy and Hitlery that we gun owners should vote for Rudy or risk electing Hitlery by not voting or voting 3rd party, I have a question.  If it comes down to these two in the general election and you vote for Rudy and he wins, will you be willing to come back on here and openly post that you voted for the lesser of two evils when Rudy starts passing major gun control.  Will you be willing to openly apologize to gun owners everywhere for your part in bringing about new gun laws.  Why do we continue as a society and specifically as gun owners to keep giving a little here and there only to get nothing in return?  When will we stand up as Americans and vote for the right candidate?  Wake up Sheeple, we are actively giving our rights away when we vote for the lesser of two evils. Explain how a president passes legislation. Pardon me.  Sign legislation into law would have been a better way to state that, but can we get back to the topic.

Actually, it's very much on topic, because the president can't do very much without congress, which means that your Chicken-Little "The Sky Will Fall if Rudy is Elected" rant is meaningless.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, I would come on here and say I voted for Rudy.  Not my first choice for the office, but better than having to Say President Clinton again.   Both, I believe, would enact major gun control so how is having Rudy any different than having Hitlery?   Supreme Court appointments. Rudy will have to nominate conservatives or his nominees will be killed by Republicans in the Senate.  See the Harriet Miers saga for what happens when a President nominates someone against the will of his party.

Rudy is not only anti-gun, but also pro-murder when it comes to babies.  These are two no no's for me.  I don't want someone like that nominating supreme court nominees.

"I'm still undecided whether I should vote for Satan or whether I should vote for Lucifer. On the one hand Satan would make sure we nuke Iran and spark Armageddon but on the flip side Lucifer will raise taxes until the US economy collapses and becomes property of the New Roman Empire, er,... I mean the UN.

Let's see,... eyeballs melting out of their sockets, pestilence and plague or do I chose internment camps for gun owners, home schoolers and xians and all other such heretics and terrorists.

Maybe I should just do like Pontius Pilate did and wash my hands of the whole mess and let the blood be on the hands of the screaming mob who haven't a clue as to what their chosen villian is going to do to them ... er, ... I mean for them."

Bush-->Clinton-->Bush-->Clinton or Rudy?  Pattern analysis dictates Hillary wins.

Quoted: For those of you who say that if it comes down to Rudy and Hitlery that we gun owners should vote for Rudy or risk electing Hitlery by not voting or voting 3rd party, I have a question.  If it comes down to these two in the general election and you vote for Rudy and he wins, will you be willing to come back on here and openly post that you voted for the lesser of two evils when Rudy starts passing major gun control.  Will you be willing to openly apologize to gun owners everywhere for your part in bringing about new gun laws.  Why do we continue as a society and specifically as gun owners to keep giving a little here and there only to get nothing in return?  When will we stand up as Americans and vote for the right candidate?  Wake up Sheeple, we are actively giving our rights away when we vote for the lesser of two evils.

I got my passport ready

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, I would come on here and say I voted for Rudy.  Not my first choice for the office, but better than having to Say President Clinton again.   Both, I believe, would enact major gun control so how is having Rudy any different than having Hitlery?   Supreme Court appointments. Rudy will have to nominate conservatives or his nominees will be killed by Republicans in the Senate.  See the Harriet Miers saga for what happens when a President nominates someone against the will of his party. Rudy is not only anti-gun, but also pro-murder when it comes to babies.  These are two no no's for me.  I don't want someone like that nominating supreme court nominees.

READ THE RED.

Holy shit.

Quoted: I voted for Mike Dewine, as much as I couldn't stand him.  He lost, Sherrod Brown went to the Senate and the Senate went to the Democrats.  So much for teach the bums a lesson.

I did not.  It was the first time I ever chose not to go with the lesser of two evils and I am glad I stood my ground.  If everyone would stop voting for the lesser of two evils, elections would change in a big way.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, I would come on here and say I voted for Rudy.  Not my first choice for the office, but better than having to Say President Clinton again.   Both, I believe, would enact major gun control so how is having Rudy any different than having Hitlery?   Are you aware that there are other issues besides gun control? Like the war we are fighting? Like the socialist agenda that Hillary will try to push?

I am very aware that there are all kinds of issues besides gun control.  Abortion is another big one for me, and another reason I will not vote for Rudy the RINO.

Quoted: Quoted: I voted for Mike Dewine, as much as I couldn't stand him.  He lost, Sherrod Brown went to the Senate and the Senate went to the Democrats.  So much for teach the bums a lesson. I did not.  It was the first time I ever chose not to go with the lesser of two evils and I am glad I stood my ground.  If everyone would stop voting for the lesser of two evils, elections would change in a big way.

They would indeed change, instead of occasionally losing, you permanently lose, and quickly become politically mute...  

The number of people on the welfare dole is likely 20 times more than those who are ideologically on the same page as you are.   Unless you form a compromised coalition, you will always lose to those who have.

Am I saying that compromise is good?  Hell no!  However compromise might get you a few more constitutionalist SCOTUS judges, and might allow us to keep what little remains of capitalism in our economy.  To simply walk away, is to ignore the fact that you live here, and are not immune to whatever policies are enacted by the government.

www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58073

Quoted: Quoted:... If you could give me one third party candidate with enough support to make it interesting I would join you... Maybe I misunderstood your previous statement?

I believe you did.
I am supproting Duncan Hunter but I dont have illusions that he will win.
If my choices are Hitlery,Rudy,or a 3rd party candidate that has no chance of winning I will choose Rudy and pray for the best.
Losing an election on purpose does not send a message,it is the true waste of a vote.
Supporting pro 2nd candidates is good but changing the sheeples minds on gun control is the real key to getting candidates to show true support for our rights.
Vote for whoever your Brain says is the best not your heart.
I will come here and admit I voted for Rudy and take the heat IF he lets new gun laws pass but I would expect all the 3rd party voters will be happy to do the same WHEN Hillary passes the laws we know for sure she will pass.

Quoted: Old_Painless FTW 2008!!!!!!

and if he doesn't win, we demand a recount!

I have been a vocal advocate that the traitor Giuliani is far more dangerous to our gun rights than Hilary. However I see no need for anybody apologising, just don’t bitch about how Giuliani lied and deceived you into believing that he wouldn’t actively push the issue.

The character of the man is pure scum, the fact that his daughter or son won’t vote for him and they don’t even what to appear with Giuliani in a campaign were he needs show of family values. This alone speaks volume about the man.

Quoted: For those of you who say that if it comes down to Rudy and Hitlery that we gun owners should vote for Rudy or risk electing Hitlery by not voting or voting 3rd party, I have a question.  If it comes down to these two in the general election and you vote for Rudy and he wins, will you be willing to come back on here and openly post that you voted for the lesser of two evils when Rudy starts passing major gun control.  Will you be willing to openly apologize to gun owners everywhere for your part in bringing about new gun laws.  Why do we continue as a society and specifically as gun owners to keep giving a little here and there only to get nothing in return?  When will we stand up as Americans and vote for the right candidate?  Wake up Sheeple, we are actively giving our rights away when we vote for the lesser of two evils.

Hell yes.  Because the risk of Rudy passing gun control legislation is MUCH LESS than that of Clinton.


Rudy WOULD step-up ENFORCEMENT of EXISTING laws, just like he did in NYC as DA and then mayor.

Quoted: Quoted: For those of you who say that if it comes down to Rudy and Hitlery that we gun owners should vote for Rudy or risk electing Hitlery by not voting or voting 3rd party, I have a question.  If it comes down to these two in the general election and you vote for Rudy and he wins, will you be willing to come back on here and openly post that you voted for the lesser of two evils when Rudy starts passing major gun control.  Will you be willing to openly apologize to gun owners everywhere for your part in bringing about new gun laws.  Why do we continue as a society and specifically as gun owners to keep giving a little here and there only to get nothing in return?  When will we stand up as Americans and vote for the right candidate?  Wake up Sheeple, we are actively giving our rights away when we vote for the lesser of two evils. Hell yes.  Because the risk of Rudy passing gun control legislation is MUCH LESS than that of Clinton. Rudy WOULD step-up ENFORCEMENT of EXISTING laws, just like he did in NYC as DA and then mayor.

Hey don't go brining logic into this "Virtual Tea Party"

Quoted: Quoted: Yes, I would come on here and say I voted for Rudy.  Not my first choice for the office, but better than having to Say President Clinton again.   Both, I believe, would enact major gun control so how is having Rudy any different than having Hitlery?

Well, for one thing, Rudy says he will nominate judges like Thomas and Roberts. Frankly that's more important than his opinion on gun control.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it comes down to these two in the general election and you vote for Rudy and he wins, will you be willing to come back on here and openly post that you voted for the lesser of two evils when Rudy starts passing major gun control.  Will you be willing to openly apologize to gun owners everywhere for your part in bringing about new gun laws.   Of course not.  They will bitch about how Fred Thompson, our savior, got screwed. Ron Paul is the only Republican who can take Hillary.  The others are all the other cheek of the same ass. You are absolutely delusional if you think Ron Paul would defeat Hillary in a presidential election.

It doesn't matter, since Paul has a 0% chance of getting past the primary as a Republican. Paul may run third party, where he can split the kook vote with Nader.

Quoted: I have been a vocal advocate that the traitor Giuliani is far more dangerous to our gun rights than Hilary. However I see no need for anybody apologising, just don’t bitch about how Giuliani lied and deceived you into believing that he wouldn’t actively push the issue. The character of the man is pure scum, the fact that his daughter or son won’t vote for him and they don’t even what to appear with Giuliani in a campaign were he needs show of family values. This alone speaks volume about the man.

I'm pretty sure some of Reagan's children didn't vote for him.

On the roof tops voting with a Thompson.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, I would come on here and say I voted for Rudy.  Not my first choice for the office, but better than having to Say President Clinton again.   Both, I believe, would enact major gun control so how is having Rudy any different than having Hitlery?   Well, for one thing, Rudy says he will nominate judges like Thomas and Roberts. Frankly that's more important than his opinion on gun control.

And THAT is why I haven't written him off completely...yet

Either way, we're going to a very hot place in a handbasket.

With Rudy, we're still going to a very hot place in a handbasket.

With Hillary, we're going there at mach four.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it comes down to these two in the general election and you vote for Rudy and he wins, will you be willing to come back on here and openly post that you voted for the lesser of two evils when Rudy starts passing major gun control.  Will you be willing to openly apologize to gun owners everywhere for your part in bringing about new gun laws.   Of course not.  They will bitch about how Fred Thompson, our savior, got screwed. Ron Paul is the only Republican who can take Hillary.  The others are all the other cheek of the same ass. You are absolutely delusional if you think Ron Paul would defeat Hillary in a presidential election.   It doesn't matter, since Paul has a 0% chance of getting past the primary as a Republican. Paul may run third party, where he can split the kook vote with Nader.

And it'll be the "Kook" vote that determines the next election, according to most in this thread.

You people have to make up your minds.

Either:
1.) Ron Paul has a lot of followers, and without those followers, the Republicans can't win (causing Hilary to win).
or
2.) Ron Paul has an insignificant quantity of followers, and they are irrelevant.

It can't be both.

Quoted: And it'll be the "Kook" vote that determines the next election, according to most in this thread. You people have to make up your minds. Either: 1.) Ron Paul has a lot of followers, and without those followers, the Republicans can't win (causing Hilary to win). or 2.) Ron Paul has an insignificant quantity of followers, and they are irrelevant. It can't be both.

Sure it can.  When it comes to having enough followers to win the primaries and become the candidate, or win in a general election, the number of his followers is completely insignificant.

However, when it comes to sucking enough votes away from a Republican candidate that the Democrat wins with less than 50%, the number of his followers becomes very significant.  Let's say he's polling at 4% right now; that's a completely insignificant number if we're talking about him winning the primaries.  However, if he ran as a 3rd Party candidate in the general election and pulled 4%, that could be enough to allow a Democrat to win.

ill stay put at home on that fateful day


they are both power driven ego maniacs looking to shape and reform our country and lives to their nyc socialism standards

gun control will be coming either side of the coin from those choices


also consider this, the more they push for disarmament of the public, they push just as hard to arm the beaucracies around the country, all in the name of safety.  but safety for who?

Quoted: Quoted: For those of you who say that if it comes down to Rudy and Hitlery that we gun owners should vote for Rudy or risk electing Hitlery by not voting or voting 3rd party, I have a question.  If it comes down to these two in the general election and you vote for Rudy and he wins, will you be willing to come back on here and openly post that you voted for the lesser of two evils when Rudy starts passing major gun control.  Will you be willing to openly apologize to gun owners everywhere for your part in bringing about new gun laws.  Why do we continue as a society and specifically as gun owners to keep giving a little here and there only to get nothing in return?  When will we stand up as Americans and vote for the right candidate?  Wake up Sheeple, we are actively giving our rights away when we vote for the lesser of two evils. Hell yes.  Because the risk of Rudy passing gun control legislation is MUCH LESS than that of Clinton. Rudy WOULD step-up ENFORCEMENT of EXISTING laws, just like he did in NYC as DA and then mayor.

You are seriously delusional if you think he will abide by those promises. Do yourself a favour and go and listen to the last part of his speech at the NRA where he answered questions. Guliani stated that gun laws on the books needs to be enforced but circumstances could change and then that would have to be taken into account…. Just take a wild guess what that would be.      

God forbid if a Beslan type of school attach happens, then he will revisit the issues he so passionate advocated for:


• Licensing of all gun owners with tests stricter then those need for a drivers licence
• Require guns to be bought in once a year for safety inspection
• Trigger lock on all guns, failure to use them and you lose the licence
• Ballistic records
• AW ban
• Suing gun manufactures


And you know what, the second amendment would still be an individual right in his mind and it wont be infringed by these safety measures.

Mr. Giuliani’s public profile on the issue dates to the early 1980s, when, as a top Justice Department official in the Reagan administration, he called a mandatory waiting period before buying a handgun “sensible and moderate.”

Remember that it was Bush Sr. who banned the import of assault weapons in 1989.
It was Governor Ronald Reagan of California who, in 1967, signed the Mulford act, whish prohibited the carrying of firearms in public or in a vehicle.

What is so dangerous when Republicans advocate Gun control is that it gives the issue legitimacy because they have become synonymous with defending our rights.
         
“It was very important to have a visible Republican to make the case that this wasn’t some liberal Democratic agenda,” Paul Helmke (Brady)

The only gun owners how will survive and like President Giuliani are the FUDDS.