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Posted: 3/9/2010 10:34:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Rifle dominates page 2.
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Posted: 3/9/2010 10:38:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Quoted: I have to think you guys that assume because you bought quality parts and did the assembly yourself, that you've never worked in manufacturing. Short of 100% inspection, which practically no one does, and those that do still have to deal with human error, there's only probability that your rifle is going to run. It may be 99%, but it's not a guarantee. It hand cycled, it fed. The only thing that could go wrong is if they forgot to drill the gas port hole, or the gas key was loose (but I check this), or they forgot to put in gas rings or firing pin (I check this, too). I'd pick rifle. If it was an AK kit build I just finished, I'd pick pistol. Or the springs were wound from bad material. Or the bolt doesn't have enough clearance inside the carrier, or the gas rings are undersized or the firing pin didn't make it to heat treat. You can only see so much. People talk about putting 1000 rounds through a handgun before they'd carry it. I find it interesting that so many would pick up an unproven rifle. Again, I don't think either answer is wrong, especially if you've trained at transitioning, which I really haven't. I'd probably drop the rifle on my toe and shoot myself in the hip trying to draw from an IWB holster. |
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Posted: 3/9/2010 10:44:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Fuck that.
You pick up what you know will work. A freshly assembled AR that hasn't been test fired = I don't know it works = I'm grabbing the pistol every time. |
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Posted: 3/9/2010 10:46:52 PM EDT
[#4]
where am I at when the door kicks in? If I am in my living room I will shoot the pistol as it is always ready to draw and rock at that range. After first clip I grab rifle as Im ducking for coverd providing I haven't already killed the men or the rest havent ran away after the first couple being shot to death instantly.
If I am in my studio where my computer is then I have a bit of cover to shoot into the living room where the front door is aso I think I would go with the rifle first and if it fails throw it at em while I draw my pistol and fire. |
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Posted: 3/9/2010 10:52:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have to think you guys that assume because you bought quality parts and did the assembly yourself, that you've never worked in manufacturing. Short of 100% inspection, which practically no one does, and those that do still have to deal with human error, there's only probability that your rifle is going to run. It may be 99%, but it's not a guarantee. It hand cycled, it fed. The only thing that could go wrong is if they forgot to drill the gas port hole, or the gas key was loose (but I check this), or they forgot to put in gas rings or firing pin (I check this, too). I'd pick rifle. If it was an AK kit build I just finished, I'd pick pistol. Or the springs were wound from bad material. Or the bolt doesn't have enough clearance inside the carrier, or the gas rings are undersized or the firing pin didn't make it to heat treat. You can only see so much. People talk about putting 1000 rounds through a handgun before they'd carry it. I find it interesting that so many would pick up an unproven rifle. Again, I don't think either answer is wrong, especially if you've trained at transitioning, which I really haven't. I'd probably drop the rifle on my toe and shoot myself in the hip trying to draw from an IWB holster. I don't need to see 1k rounds through before I trust it.. but I want to see at least a few mags through without a hiccup through a couple marked mags before I grab for it when I need it. I don't know why anyone else would say anything different. Shit happens, if a weapon is untested, it's not reliable yet. Everyone knows that. |
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Posted: 3/9/2010 10:54:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I would grab my shotgun 
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Posted: 3/9/2010 11:30:23 PM EDT
[#7]
I had my buffer break through the little pin that is supposed to hold it in on the first shot of one of my builds. And on another, had a double feed first round out.
both rifles have been flawless since then, but I test fire every rifle before I stash it around the house |
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Posted: 3/9/2010 11:40:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
If I have the time, rifle-always. HH same here |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 1:36:05 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
That's really interesting. You'd pick a rifle that hasn't been sighted in, or even test fired, over the handgun you entrust your life to every day? Don't get me wrong, I am firmly in the rifle > handgun camp, under normal circumstances. I've just had too many ARs, STGs, AKs, you name it, not run right out of the box. Really? What kind were they and what was the malfunction? |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 1:46:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Pistol for sure. Any freshly assebled peice of machinery has the probability of failure during its initial break in, and in a life or death situation I dont want to find out one of the parts in my new rifle was made 5 minutes before the end of the shift on a friday.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 2:22:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Neither. I use a number of quad fifty's as my living room furniture so I'd open up with those first, before I engaged in small arms fire and hand to hand combat techniques, usually. I also have them mounted on rascals as a just in case of a foot chase. Now, you might be thinking that's fine for a single frontal attack but, what if another platoon is attacking from the side at the same time? No problem, I have a small nuclear device set up on a pull sting as a last resort. I keep it hidden under a doily so it's really not noticeable. Thing is, it only works once. Before I let it off though I have to raise the alert level from "there is a wild clam in the chowder" to "the lobster is in the pot" (I know, it's a New England thing) so the neighbors know to duck, dodge and cover. I hope this helps a bit. Truthfully, as I don't live in a war zone or a bad neighborhood for that matter, by the time my mind registers what was happening, I'd be dead.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 2:58:11 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
And yes, it's a stupid, improbable scenario, but so are most that are posted here. So here's the skinny. You've just completed your newest AR build. It's nice. 16" M4 type of build. Maybe it's a LaRue Stealth on a billet POF lower, or a LMT Monolithic on a Colt lower you sold the upper off. These details are irrelevant, save that it's a quality build. You've lubed and dry fired it, but it's not been test fired. Admiring your handiwork you slap a full magazine in it and chamber a round. It fed the round, no problem. So you engage the safety and set it back on your stand, or lean it against your desk. It's in immediate reach. Now, sitting on your desk or workbench, or in your CCW holster is your favorite 9mm. Glock 19, High Power, doesn't matter. You've put a few thousand rounds through this little workhorse and have extreme confidence in it. You've practiced your draw, you know every micrometer of the trigger pull. As you sit, contemplating bean vs no bean, your front door is forcibly opened. Not a knock, not a jiggle, it's kicked in and there are multiple attackers entering your castle. Maybe it's 2, maybe it's 4, but no more than 4. You can't really see from your position. So now you have a choice. These men aren't selling cookies. They're looking to make you dead and take your stuff. Do you pick up the unproven rifle? The high quality build you "know" will run, but hasn't been tested? 5.56 at 30 feet is certainly greater than 9mm. Or do you pick up old trusty and fight like you've trained with it? Stupid but this is the kind of thing that keeps me up at night. I'd use my High Power, btw. Why would you pick the BHP over your TRP? I mean, the BHP is a great pistol, but IMO TRP > BHP. That said, I'm not sure what I'd pick. I would have a hard time trusting a weapon I've never fired. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 3:16:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: or in your CCW holster is your favorite 9mm. Glock 19 I'd probably throw that grenade first and clean up with the AR. but seriously, I'd grab my trusty XD. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 3:20:06 AM EDT
[#14]
Rifle.
I could drop it and pull the pistol if need be. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 3:49:06 AM EDT
[#15]
Pistol in my belt, rifle in my hands.....go through the 30 rounds until its empty or jammed...then go for the pistol.
Simple. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 4:06:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
That's really interesting. You'd pick a rifle that hasn't been sighted in, or even test fired, over the handgun you entrust your life to every day? Don't get me wrong, I am firmly in the rifle > handgun camp, under normal circumstances. I've just had too many ARs, STGs, AKs, you name it, not run right out of the box. I'm surprised by this too- I'm hesitant to trust my life to something I've never tested. But then, it needs to be tested somehow... |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 4:10:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: And yes, it's a stupid, improbable scenario, but so are most that are posted here. So here's the skinny. You've just completed your newest AR build. It's nice. 16" M4 type of build. Maybe it's a LaRue Stealth on a billet POF lower, or a LMT Monolithic on a Colt lower you sold the upper off. These details are irrelevant, save that it's a quality build. You've lubed and dry fired it, but it's not been test fired. Admiring your handiwork you slap a full magazine in it and chamber a round. It fed the round, no problem. So you engage the safety and set it back on your stand, or lean it against your desk. It's in immediate reach. Now, sitting on your desk or workbench, or in your CCW holster is your favorite 9mm. Glock 19, High Power, doesn't matter. You've put a few thousand rounds through this little workhorse and have extreme confidence in it. You've practiced your draw, you know every micrometer of the trigger pull. As you sit, contemplating bean vs no bean, your front door is forcibly opened. Not a knock, not a jiggle, it's kicked in and there are multiple attackers entering your castle. Maybe it's 2, maybe it's 4, but no more than 4. You can't really see from your position. So now you have a choice. These men aren't selling cookies. They're looking to make you dead and take your stuff. Do you pick up the unproven rifle? The high quality build you "know" will run, but hasn't been tested? 5.56 at 30 feet is certainly greater than 9mm. Or do you pick up old trusty and fight like you've trained with it? Stupid but this is the kind of thing that keeps me up at night. I'd use my High Power, btw. Why would you pick the BHP over your TRP? I mean, the BHP is a great pistol, but IMO TRP > BHP. That said, I'm not sure what I'd pick. I would have a hard time trusting a weapon I've never fired. Because apparently there are members who still think that .45 > .223 "at close range" and I wanted to eliminate any caliber pissing matches. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 4:12:38 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: That's really interesting. You'd pick a rifle that hasn't been sighted in, or even test fired, over the handgun you entrust your life to every day? Don't get me wrong, I am firmly in the rifle > handgun camp, under normal circumstances. I've just had too many ARs, STGs, AKs, you name it, not run right out of the box. Really? What kind were they and what was the malfunction? The AK was a kit build. Trigger reset issues. "Out of the box" was an over generalization in that sense. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 4:21:01 AM EDT
[#19]
I would pick the proven pistol over the untested rifle.
ETA: But then again, is there a bayo on the AR? 
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Posted: 3/10/2010 4:33:28 AM EDT
[#20]
I'll just grab one of my other AR's.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 4:37:26 AM EDT
[#21]
rifle, it has at least one rd. chambered, thats gona slow them down and proly make them crap their pants long enough that if the "new" gun fails after that first rd. you will have more time to pull "ol trusty".
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Posted: 3/10/2010 4:42:43 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 3/10/2010 4:52:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Holsterd CCW in the belt, rifle in hands.
Though if I'm at my workbench having just put a rifle together, I'm also 3 steps away from a safe containing PROVEN rifles and shotguns, and far enough away from from the door that was kicked in that I can take my time getting something out. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 4:54:57 AM EDT
[#24]
I'd reach for the Model 19. As a hunter, I always choose to do my killing with the firearm in which I have the most confidence. That longstanding, proven doctrine doesn't change.
When the pistol ran dry, I would probably then pick up the rifle as a "New York reload". "Why are my ears permanently ringing, and why is the liberal prosecuter looking at me like that?" 
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Posted: 3/10/2010 5:55:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Grab the rifle and run it til it quits. Transition. Yep, then reload, repeat as necessary ! Remember boys and girls, anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting again and again and again..... |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 6:08:53 AM EDT
[#26]
Inside my House!
Handgun, Because I don't want to be Blind & deaf from firing the rifle indoors 
Have any of you who answered Rifle ever fired an M4 indoors with no hearing protection? |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 6:10:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
I'd get both. Light them up with the AR, any pause/malfunction, don't even think about diagnosing it, just drop the damn thing and grab my Hi Power, resume shooting. I go along with this. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 6:17:06 AM EDT
[#28]
Would grab the rifle, as I don't have some shitty 9mm. Use a .357 Mag, a .45ACP, or go home.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 6:19:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Inside my House! Handgun, Because I don't want to be Blind & deaf from firing the rifle indoors
Have any of you who answered Rifle ever fired an M4 indoors with no hearing protection? I fired one outdoors without hearing protection once. Once was enough.
I'm sure a lot of the folks here who live in free states have sound suppressors on their Home Defense ARs. That's what I would do if I could in New Jersey. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 6:24:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Grab the rifle and run it til it quits. Transition. My thoughts exactly. Grab rifle and tuck the handgun IWB just in case. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 6:26:55 AM EDT
[#31]
Rack 1 steel-core round into your 8mm Mauser/91-30 and you could probably take them all out if they're entering single-file
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Posted: 3/10/2010 6:36:30 AM EDT
[#32]
6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
Since you didn't mention a friend, grab the pistol, too... just in case. To the poster that said they have seen too many AR's not work out of the box: OP said that you've just put it together, cleaned it, lubed it, etc. Really, how many AR's did not work out of the box? Did you just take it out and expect to blast away? Do you not inspect things you buy before using them? 
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Posted: 3/10/2010 9:30:46 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have to think you guys that assume because you bought quality parts and did the assembly yourself, that you've never worked in manufacturing. Short of 100% inspection, which practically no one does, and those that do still have to deal with human error, there's only probability that your rifle is going to run. It may be 99%, but it's not a guarantee. It hand cycled, it fed. The only thing that could go wrong is if they forgot to drill the gas port hole, or the gas key was loose (but I check this), or they forgot to put in gas rings or firing pin (I check this, too). I'd pick rifle. If it was an AK kit build I just finished, I'd pick pistol. Or the springs were wound from bad material. already checked when it chambered the 1st round Or the bolt doesn't have enough clearance inside the carrieralso checked, or the gas rings are undersized easily checked by hand on first inspectionor the firing pin didn't make it to heat treatthat's possible. You can only see so much. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 9:34:25 AM EDT
[#34]
Untested rifle. Unknown if it runs or where it'll hit. I'll take the pistol in that case. If I've had a chance to fire at least 1 mag through it things would change. Better to stay w/ the gun you *KNOW* runs than the one you don't know if it runs or where it hits.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 9:36:36 AM EDT
[#35]
My handgun.
It's obvious most people did not actually read the scenario. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 9:44:45 AM EDT
[#36]
Rifle. First three rounds immediately go into the nearest safe target. Open (or break) a window and put three into the ground outside, for example.
You just tested your rifle, called for backup and let the perps know that you're armed and not fucking around. If it doesn't cycle, you take (or transition to) the handgun. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 9:45:00 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Grab the rifle and run it til it quits. Transition. This |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 9:45:23 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If I'm forced into a fight with 4 armed men and have a chance to take a rifle, I'd be a dumbass not to take a rifle. Might be 4. Might be 2. You can't tell. It's >2 and <4. So its three then? 
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Posted: 3/10/2010 9:52:41 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
With a rifle that hasnt been fired, it hasnt been sighted in, I'd be a fool to not pick my 1911, a bullet is a bullet. How much sighting in do you need to do on a rifle that you're going to be using within a couple dozen feet of your attacker AT MOST? |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 9:59:19 AM EDT
[#40]
Poll FAIL
Poll options should be “Tested” and “Not tested.” Not a rifle v. handgun issue, I think. I keep a Glock 23 or 22 (depending on what I carried that day) on my nightstand. I also keep an AR leaning against the bed. Both have been well proven. I usually have the pistol holstered around the house. I sometimes have the AR in whatever room I happen to be in. If someone comes into the house, I will use the AR if I feel I have enough time to get it shouldered. If they are right on top of me, I will use the pistol. In your scenario, I would choose the tested weapon, but I do have other choices. If you have decided to spend your hard earned money on a Noveske or La Rue rifle, you probably have a couple others. You would be better served choosing the beat to shit Mossberg 500 you keep behind your refrigerator or the ugly but dependable Romanian AKM under your couch. Hell, right now my primary HD gun is a Model 1 upper on a Rock River lower. Why? I’ve got more rounds through it than any other AR I own. I own a Colt, an Armalite, a Rock River, an Ameetec, and my wife has a Stag. I’d love to have a high end rifle, but until I’ve got another one with 10k rounds through it, I’m putting my faith in the Model 1. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 10:02:27 AM EDT
[#41]
Rifle.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 10:06:11 AM EDT
[#42]
Always take the chance on the rifle.
I'd probably stick the handgun in my belt just in case though. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 10:09:55 AM EDT
[#43]
Until I know the rifle fires when I pull the trigger I have got to go with the pistol.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 10:28:24 AM EDT
[#44]
Rifle til dry/malfuncion. Transition to pistol and keep banging away.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 10:32:04 AM EDT
[#45]
Never trust an unproven weapon, if I could only have one I'd pick the proven pistol. In your hypothetical I would grab the rifle w/ the anticipation of transitioning to the pistol at the slightest hiccup.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 6:56:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
I'd invite them to the kitchen for coffee and teach them its impolite to kick in someones door while making lunch for them. Yup! Be kind to your own brothers and sisters! Peace. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 7:03:43 PM EDT
[#47]
Voted Handgun; as you posed the scenerio. My trust in a gun must be earned.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 7:10:59 PM EDT
[#48]
Pull pin on glock, throw, duck and cover.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 7:15:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
My handgun. It's obvious most people did not actually read the scenario. It's also been obvious lately that lots of folks here apparently have a LOT of faith in guns just working, even though they haven't tested them in their current state. What I'm talking about here is the discussion recently about cleaning of guns. A relatively large segment of the members here apparently feel it necessary to strip their guns down, clean them, re-assemble, and then depend on that firearm for their protection - a firearm whose function in its current state has not been absolutely verified. (The only way to truly verify that it still feeds, shoots, and cycles is to go run a few rounds through it. But oh no, now it won't be white-glove clean!) It doesn't matter how perfect you think you are, we are all human and are capable of fuckups. I have both witnessed firsthand and had accounted to me secondhand multiple instances of individuals showing up at a range with a freshly-cleaned firearm, only to have the firearm fail from the get-go because something was missed during their final check and re-assembly. With any semi-auto I count on for serious purposes, I will put at least a full magazine through it after anything resembling a thorough stripping & cleaning before it goes back "into rotation", as it were. |
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Posted: 3/10/2010 7:17:41 PM EDT
[#50]
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