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Posted: 11/22/2012 11:53:19 AM EDT
[#1]
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So you spend your time at the gym checking out other dudes? Interesting... Attention to detail makes one gay? In your case....eh..yeah. Why the POINK hate? He's a stand up guy to me, helped all of AR15 save at least $50 at Home Depot a few weeks back. I've noticed the same thing as Poink, and there's nothing wrong with good workout form and being reminded of its importance every now and then. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 11:55:59 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: It entirely depends on your goals. If you're strength training some of the most common and most effective programs use series of 2-3 reps as a % of one rep max to build strength. If you're training to improve over all conditioning you'll have a completely different program that involves compound movements, higher reps, lower weight, and a focus on intensity of effort. Body builders will choose to do lifts that focus on building size and strength of specific muscle groups and often do lifts that isolate muscle groups. Who gives a fuck what others are choosing to do. Pick your own goals, do your own shit, and help others if they ask you. He's not talking reps, he's talking body english. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 11:57:06 AM EDT
[#3]
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Take barbell curls for example. [/div] bro curls 
You work your arms with bench, dips, pull ups and deads. I wish i had every minute of my life i wasted doing curls before i knew better back. So this guy was wasting his time?! https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnVuixQ77U2dtpKrQdpcTbe6JEnKAgjklrsrUITckz8rygzQeA https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpaEyFjevnD6VdQ5g_4aMa3OLiLawKz73EcgxBTvxhDAE_GYZ2 https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6jd7vhYpfVKOecIQZuqQq9NuvdJfDMf1QVNP_35SlLjGz6kkjkZ7BeKNK Depends on the goal. Steroid enhanced body builders have different goals that those looking to improve raw strength. I'd rather look like young Arnold then the "power builder" physique. I agree with you though (curls are crappy for gaining raw strength), but honestly, most people in the typical gym want to look great, they don't want to look like the "power builders". I go to the gym to look great and feel great about my endurance and physique, not really measuring myself against others in terms of how much I can lift or to increase my raw strength. Different goals and there's nothing wrong with either goal IMHO. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 11:57:28 AM EDT
[#4]
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What's wrong with using a lot of different muscles to lift a weight? That's a lot better, in my view. You're working more muscles and using the body as a whole. Isolating ONE muscle seems like a less efficient and effective use of time and effort. If you are trying to do isolation exercises you want proper form. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 11:59:17 AM EDT
[#5]
OP makes a good point. This year I started at the gym, and the trainer had me lifting too much. I finally recovered recently and have started back with lower weight, more concentration on muscle group, etc.
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:01:35 PM EDT
[#6]
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So you spend your time at the gym checking out other dudes? Interesting... Attention to detail makes one gay? I'm so using this next time I get caught checking out another girl.  This thread is worthless without pics. Need them from BES and poink.  Lol! I'm just here to raz the OP, I don't actually work out. 
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:02:50 PM EDT
[#7]
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OP makes a good point. This year I started at the gym, and the trainer had me lifting too much. I finally recovered recently and have started back with lower weight, more concentration on muscle group, etc. Keep good form and the amount of weight you can properly do will increase on its own. Congrats on not quitting! |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:05:28 PM EDT
[#8]
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So you spend your time at the gym checking out other dudes? Interesting... Attention to detail makes one gay? I'm so using this next time I get caught checking out another girl. This thread is worthless without pics. Need them from BES and poink. Lol! I'm just here to raz the OP, I don't actually work out. Lol! Whatever. 
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:07:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Good form isn't about "isolating muscles" -it's about not hurting yourself.
What's the point of isolating muscles? Exercises that incorporate supporting muscles develop a functional strength. I suppose it's a matter of metrics; ability or appearance. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:09:15 PM EDT
[#10]
I lift for strength, but I also work in high rep workouts for every muscle group. I stopped criticizing other people's workouts a long time ago, if it works for them so be it. Its only when they are doing something wrong and could face possible injury that I say something.
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:21:02 PM EDT
[#11]
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So you spend your time at the gym checking out other dudes? Interesting... Attention to detail makes one gay? I'm so using this next time I get caught checking out another girl. This thread is worthless without pics. Need them from BES and poink. Lol! I'm just here to raz the OP, I don't actually work out. Lol! Whatever. Starting yoga at home this week doesn't count.
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:23:55 PM EDT
[#12]
My rule is that I'll lift up to whatever weight it is that still allows me to keep good form and full range of motion.
And I will never throw a weight. Never use momentum to get it through the complete motion. Full range of motion. Good form, and fully controlled without momentum. I think that's solid advice for everybody who lifts any weights. CJ |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:33:19 PM EDT
[#13]
I think they would look much better if they actually spent time lifting instead of talking to each other about how awesome lifting is.
GTF out of the way. Your stupid Ipod and protein shake don't make up for the fact that you are just standing around. Kind of like the the whole, "Theres a fine line between sitting next to the river looking stupid and fishing." |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:43:05 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:52:48 PM EDT
[#15]
You work your arms with bench, dips, pull ups and deads. I wish i had every minute of my life i wasted doing curls before i knew better back. So this guy was wasting his time?!
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnVuixQ77U2dtpKrQdpcTbe6JEnKAgjklrsrUITckz8rygzQeA https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpaEyFjevnD6VdQ5g_4aMa3OLiLawKz73EcgxBTvxhDAE_GYZ2 https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6jd7vhYpfVKOecIQZuqQq9NuvdJfDMf1QVNP_35SlLjGz6kkjkZ7BeKNK Depends on the goal. Steroid enhanced body builders have different goals that those looking to improve raw strength naturally.
Penis envy much?
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Posted: 11/22/2012 12:55:59 PM EDT
[#16]
I only do compound lifts and each muscle gets 3 sets of 5 at the heaviest I can go and keep my form. I like to do the workouts in Mark Ripptoes books.
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:00:52 PM EDT
[#17]
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What's wrong with using a lot of different muscles to lift a weight? That's a lot better, in my view. You're working more muscles and using the body as a whole. Isolating ONE muscle seems like a less efficient and effective use of time and effort. Depends. If doing a compound movement, here are multiple muscle groups involved. Not so on isolation movements. Regardless, I've seen way too many people using momentum, rather than muscle to move the weights. Much harder to hurt yourself by going slower. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:18:58 PM EDT
[#18]
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They dropped the weights they are using each set by about 20-30%. I just got back from the gym, and damn near every last fucking guy (male...females aren't as bad about this as men are) was lifting weight they should not be lifting. Sure, they can get their target # of reps, but between the bad form and using every other muscle to accomplish the set, beside the one they are supposedly trying to work, they just aren't doing themselves any real benefit. Hell, even I am guilty of this. However, I have made a conscious effort as of late to swallow my pride, drop the weight, close my eyes, and strictly concentrate on the muscle I am trying to work to move the weight through space. Try it sometime. I went this morning, but know what you're talking about. There is a group of guys who routinely act like assholes to me for not attempting to lift heavy. I've now targeted my workouts at times when I know they won't be there. It is a problem with men––it's a "showoff" thing. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:23:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: They dropped the weights they are using each set by about 20-30%. I just got back from the gym, and damn near every last fucking guy (male...females aren't as bad about this as men are) was lifting weight they should not be lifting. Sure, they can get their target # of reps, but between the bad form and using every other muscle to accomplish the set, beside the one they are supposedly trying to work, they just aren't doing themselves any real benefit. Hell, even I am guilty of this. However, I have made a conscious effort as of late to swallow my pride, drop the weight, close my eyes, and strictly concentrate on the muscle I am trying to work to move the weight through space. Try it sometime. Ahhh more words of wisdom from the clueless one....find anymore poor people to hate? dispute what I am saying then, homey. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:29:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Good form isn't about "isolating muscles" -it's about not hurting yourself. What's the point of isolating muscles? Exercises that incorporate supporting muscles develop a functional strength. I suppose it's a matter of metrics; ability or appearance. Is it building functional strength to move a weight two inches as opposed to a full range of movement? |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:33:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: They dropped the weights they are using each set by about 20-30%. I just got back from the gym, and damn near every last fucking guy (male...females aren't as bad about this as men are) was lifting weight they should not be lifting. Sure, they can get their target # of reps, but between the bad form and using every other muscle to accomplish the set, beside the one they are supposedly trying to work, they just aren't doing themselves any real benefit. Hell, even I am guilty of this. However, I have made a conscious effort as of late to swallow my pride, drop the weight, close my eyes, and strictly concentrate on the muscle I am trying to work to move the weight through space. Try it sometime. I went this morning, but know what you're talking about. There is a group of guys who routinely act like assholes to me for not attempting to lift heavy. I've now targeted my workouts at times when I know they won't be there. It is a problem with men––it's a "showoff" thing. I am sure some smaller dudes think I am some kind of pussy homo because I use less weight than them on some lifts. However, I'm not there cheating myself out of a good workout by doing things improperly. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:49:06 PM EDT
[#22]
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Good form isn't about "isolating muscles" -it's about not hurting yourself. What's the point of isolating muscles? Exercises that incorporate supporting muscles develop a functional strength. I suppose it's a matter of metrics; ability or appearance. Is it building functional strength to move a weight two inches as opposed to a full range of movement? That really all depends. Rack pulls move the weight only a few inches, and it is an exercise that helps develops functional strength. Heavy shrugs only move the weight a few inches, too. Great exercise that helps develop a functional strength. I'm not really sure the point you're trying to make. Do you believe that high-rep, light weight, "preacher curls" helps to develop a functional strength? (if we are going to ask silly questions...what the heck?) |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:50:26 PM EDT
[#23]
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They dropped the weights they are using each set by about 20-30%. I just got back from the gym, and damn near every last fucking guy (male...females aren't as bad about this as men are) was lifting weight they should not be lifting. Sure, they can get their target # of reps, but between the bad form and using every other muscle to accomplish the set, beside the one they are supposedly trying to work, they just aren't doing themselves any real benefit. Hell, even I am guilty of this. However, I have made a conscious effort as of late to swallow my pride, drop the weight, close my eyes, and strictly concentrate on the muscle I am trying to work to move the weight through space. Try it sometime. I went this morning, but know what you're talking about. There is a group of guys who routinely act like assholes to me for not attempting to lift heavy. I've now targeted my workouts at times when I know they won't be there. It is a problem with men––it's a "showoff" thing. Well, since you leave nothing to be desired.... 
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:54:27 PM EDT
[#24]
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Good form isn't about "isolating muscles" -it's about not hurting yourself. What's the point of isolating muscles? Exercises that incorporate supporting muscles develop a functional strength. I suppose it's a matter of metrics; ability or appearance. Is it building functional strength to move a weight two inches as opposed to a full range of movement? That all depends. Rack pulls move the weight only a few inches, and it is an exercise that helps develops functional strength. Shrugs only move the weight a few inches, too. But kipping to pull off 100 pull-ups makes a real man. I understand what you are saying. I just get absolutely goofy when someone compares his "whole bunch" of swinging, kipping pull-ups to my 20 dead hangs. Maybe I'm silly, but I don't feel silly. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:55:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Why do you care what someone look like when they PT?
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:55:57 PM EDT
[#26]
If we insist on inventing silly comparisons, we can each win our own personnal arguments.
Yay! 
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Posted: 11/22/2012 1:57:58 PM EDT
[#27]
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Why do you care what someone look like when they PT? He's obviously an aficionado of the aesthetics of the male physique.
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:01:52 PM EDT
[#28]
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If we insist on inventing silly comparisons, we can each win our own personnal arguments. Yay! If you think so. What I know is that I can resort to kipping and do a ton of reps, but when I dead hang I can only do a fraction of that...and that I that I tend to stave off tendinitis by exercising my full range of motion. But that's a silly comparison based on physiology, I suppose. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:05:34 PM EDT
[#29]
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Take barbell curls for example. [/div] bro curls
You work your arms with bench, dips, pull ups and deads. I wish i had every minute of my life i wasted doing curls before i knew better back. So this guy was wasting his time?!
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnVuixQ77U2dtpKrQdpcTbe6JEnKAgjklrsrUITckz8rygzQeA https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpaEyFjevnD6VdQ5g_4aMa3OLiLawKz73EcgxBTvxhDAE_GYZ2 https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6jd7vhYpfVKOecIQZuqQq9NuvdJfDMf1QVNP_35SlLjGz6kkjkZ7BeKNK Read this and then you will understand. Bad form and steroids /=/ amazing physique.  |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:08:03 PM EDT
[#30]
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If we insist on inventing silly comparisons, we can each win our own personnal arguments. Yay! If you think so. What I know is that I can resort to kipping and do a ton of reps, but when I dead hang I can only do a fraction of that...and that I that I tend to stave off tendinitis by exercising my full range of motion. But that's a silly comparison based on physiology, I suppose. Serious request: Describe your bench press technique. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:11:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Go heavy or go home. Instead of backing off the weight, people would be better served in working with a reputable strength coach in cleaning up form issues.
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:13:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Some of you all should have the balls to post some of this stuff in the fitness forum.
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:16:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: I'm not even talking about doing this from the injury perspective. I am saying this from the hypertrophy perspective. Sorry, but if you are trying to build your chest, why are you using your back, legs, and heavy shoulders while benching. Drop the fucking weight and make your chest, not everything else, do the majority of the work for you. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:16:38 PM EDT
[#34]
But they look better lifting the heavier weights. And we all know its about looking good.
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:17:33 PM EDT
[#35]
The guys that crack me up, are the ones that get massive above the belt, but have legs like Waldo.
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:19:16 PM EDT
[#36]
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If we insist on inventing silly comparisons, we can each win our own personnal arguments. Yay! If you think so. What I know is that I can resort to kipping and do a ton of reps, but when I dead hang I can only do a fraction of that...and that I that I tend to stave off tendinitis by exercising my full range of motion. But that's a silly comparison based on physiology, I suppose. Serious request: Describe your bench press technique. Feet wide, forearms perpendicular to the ground, shoulders low, back/shoulder blades arched, bar in the palms. touch the chest and push. It seems to work reasonably well and my bad shoulders don't bother me too much. 
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:20:47 PM EDT
[#37]
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The guys that crack me up, are the ones that get massive above the belt, but have legs like Waldo. Ah, my pet peeve. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:25:09 PM EDT
[#38]
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If we insist on inventing silly comparisons, we can each win our own personnal arguments. Yay! If you think so. What I know is that I can resort to kipping and do a ton of reps, but when I dead hang I can only do a fraction of that...and that I that I tend to stave off tendinitis by exercising my full range of motion. But that's a silly comparison based on physiology, I suppose. Serious request: Describe your bench press technique. Feet wide, forearms perpendicular to the ground, shoulders low, back/shoulder blades arched, bar in the palms. touch the chest and push. It seems to work reasonably well and my bad shoulders don't bother me too much. http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j150/RictusGrin_2006/RG15DECaP.jpg http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j150/RictusGrin_2006/RG-CoD.jpg Solid foundation. Your shoulder blades and your ass are all that touch the bench. I'll bet that you can move some weight that way. Your description of a correct bench press seems to contradict the OP's points. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:28:54 PM EDT
[#39]
This thread is full of stupid shit.
Not everyone is trying to body build, and not everybody is trying to power lift. I agree a lot of people suffer from poor form and too much weight, but assuming someone who benches with his back arched is doing it wrong is stupid, and vice versa. Same goes for other movements as well. Goals can dictate lifts and form. Who cares what others are doing. Ignore them and focus on your own goals and form.
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:31:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
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If we insist on inventing silly comparisons, we can each win our own personnal arguments. Yay! If you think so. What I know is that I can resort to kipping and do a ton of reps, but when I dead hang I can only do a fraction of that...and that I that I tend to stave off tendinitis by exercising my full range of motion. But that's a silly comparison based on physiology, I suppose. Serious request: Describe your bench press technique. Feet wide, forearms perpendicular to the ground, shoulders low, back/shoulder blades arched, bar in the palms. touch the chest and push. It seems to work reasonably well and my bad shoulders don't bother me too much. http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j150/RictusGrin_2006/RG15DECaP.jpg http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j150/RictusGrin_2006/RG-CoD.jpg Solid foundation. Your shoulder blades and your ass are all that touch the bench. I'll bet that you can move some weight that way. Your description of a correct bench press seems to contradict the OP's points. Yes, shoulder blades and ass only on the bench. I still consider it a compound exercise and know a guy with no pectoral on one side who benches quite well with other muscles. YMMV, as always. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:36:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If we insist on inventing silly comparisons, we can each win our own personnal arguments. Yay! If you think so. What I know is that I can resort to kipping and do a ton of reps, but when I dead hang I can only do a fraction of that...and that I that I tend to stave off tendinitis by exercising my full range of motion. But that's a silly comparison based on physiology, I suppose. Serious request: Describe your bench press technique. Feet wide, forearms perpendicular to the ground, shoulders low, back/shoulder blades arched, bar in the palms. touch the chest and push. It seems to work reasonably well and my bad shoulders don't bother me too much. http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j150/RictusGrin_2006/RG15DECaP.jpg http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j150/RictusGrin_2006/RG-CoD.jpg Solid foundation. Your shoulder blades and your ass are all that touch the bench. I'll bet that you can move some weight that way. Your description of a correct bench press seems to contradict the OP's points. Yes, shoulder blades and ass only on the bench. I still consider it a compound exercise and know a guy with no pectoral on one side who benches quite well with other muscles. YMMV, as always. Considering that you're using the shoulder and elbow joints, it is. Anyone who thinks the bench press is an isolation lift doesn't have a clue. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:37:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: The back needs to be arched, if not then you could injure your back. Every lift should be done with an extended spine.This thread is full of stupid shit. Not everyone is trying to body build, and not everybody is trying to power lift. I agree a lot of people suffer from poor form and too much weight, but assuming someone who benches with his back arched is doing it wrong is stupid, and vice versa. Same goes for other movements as well. Goals can dictate lifts and form. Who cares what others are doing. Ignore them and focus on your own goals and form. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:40:08 PM EDT
[#43]
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Considering that you're using the shoulder and elbow joints, it is. Anyone who thinks the bench press is an isolation lift doesn't have a clue. Since it smokes my pecs and tris, I figure it's at least beyond isolation. I still support the less weight/proper form concept, though. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:40:44 PM EDT
[#44]
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I'm not even talking about doing this from the injury perspective. I am saying this from the hypertrophy perspective. Sorry, but if you are trying to build your chest, why are you using your back, legs, and heavy shoulders while benching. Drop the fucking weight and make your chest, not everything else, do the majority of the work for you. Best thing I did for my bench press is drop the weight down and lift my legs up at a 45 degree angle while lifting. You're 100% correct. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:42:00 PM EDT
[#45]
After I got out of the military I didn't work out for awhile. I didn't get fat, but I did lose a lot of strength.
When I started going back to the gym regularly I had to begin my squats with one 45lb weight on each side, basically starting over. It was a bit disappointing but proper squats are really important and a person looks more foolish when they don't go down all the way. I work out at odd hours so the only other people in the gym usually are old people on the cardio machines, or middle aged soccer moms on the cardio machines. I've been past the point of caring for long time now(just put in headphones and concentrate on my sets) but no one around here seems to pay attention to the free weights anyway. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:45:05 PM EDT
[#46]
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I'm not even talking about doing this from the injury perspective. I am saying this from the hypertrophy perspective. Sorry, but if you are trying to build your chest, why are you using your back, legs, and heavy shoulders while benching. Drop the fucking weight and make your chest, not everything else, do the majority of the work for you. Best thing I did for my bench press is drop the weight down and lift my legs up at a 45 degree angle while lifting. You're 100% correct. I think I have seen you at the gym. Do you do curls in the squat rack? |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:48:12 PM EDT
[#47]
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Considering that you're using the shoulder and elbow joints, it is. Anyone who thinks the bench press is an isolation lift doesn't have a clue. Since it smokes my pecs and tris, I figure it's at least beyond isolation. I still support the less weight/proper form concept, though. I agree less weight and good form is the most important. I have arthritis in a bunch of my joints so my range of motion is fucked so some workouts form kind of goes out the window. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:49:18 PM EDT
[#48]
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I'm not even talking about doing this from the injury perspective. I am saying this from the hypertrophy perspective. Sorry, but if you are trying to build your chest, why are you using your back, legs, and heavy shoulders while benching. Drop the fucking weight and make your chest, not everything else, do the majority of the work for you. Best thing I did for my bench press is drop the weight down and lift my legs up at a 45 degree angle while lifting. You're 100% correct. I think I have seen you at the gym. Do you do curls in the squat rack? lol what are you the gym police? |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 2:50:46 PM EDT
[#49]
I've been using a little bit less weight with very strict, slow reps and hard negatives.
I am more interested in bodybuilding, so this works well for me. At my age, when I try to lift the gym I am risking injury. |
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Posted: 11/22/2012 3:05:13 PM EDT
[#50]
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Considering that you're using the shoulder and elbow joints, it is. Anyone who thinks the bench press is an isolation lift doesn't have a clue. Since it smokes my pecs and tris, I figure it's at least beyond isolation. I still support the less weight/proper form concept, though. I agree less weight and good form is the most important. I have arthritis in a bunch of my joints so my range of motion is fucked so some workouts form kind of goes out the window. Same here. I'm all kinds of broken. Thus, less weight. |
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