I ain't no Kumbayq peacenik type, but cluster munitions in cities seem like a bad idea to me.. - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I ain't no Kumbayq peacenik type, but cluster munitions in cities seem like a bad idea to me.. (Page 2 of 5)

Posted: 2/19/2016 3:44:18 AM EDT

[#1]

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ISIS hides / shields them self behind civilians. In Irag the ROE (IIRC) was to avoid destroying mosque. Some "leader" holed up in one for 3-4 weeks, taking shots at US forces. Knowing the U.S would not level the mosque, bad press and all that PC shit.

These fuckers blow up bazaars for practice, not giving a fuck who gets killed or maimed. You want to play softball, go ahead. Terrorism isn't or will never be a conventional war.
I

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Yeah yeah, I know, Putin is a badass, he has the will to win and we are soft etc. etc.

I have to believe there are noncombatants in the areas being bombed right now.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b01_1455557247

ISIS hides / shields them self behind civilians. In Irag the ROE (IIRC) was to avoid destroying mosque. Some "leader" holed up in one for 3-4 weeks, taking shots at US forces. Knowing the U.S would not level the mosque, bad press and all that PC shit.

These fuckers blow up bazaars for practice, not giving a fuck who gets killed or maimed. You want to play softball, go ahead. Terrorism isn't or will never be a conventional war.
I

Agreed. Playing hardball is what led to the compete Soviet victory in Afghanistan in the 80's.

Posted: 2/19/2016 3:56:12 AM EDT

[#2]

I hope Putin uses more, lots and lots more. Kill these ISIS supporters

Posted: 2/19/2016 4:26:25 AM EDT

[#3]

Carpet bombing is why German surrendered in 1943 with no industrial output and a populace that was absolutely broken and unable to fight for two more years.
And why Brittain surrendered in 1940 after the Germans started bombing population centers.

Oh wait, that didn't happen. This is just another circle jerk thread for wanna-be nutcases that love to pretend bombing civilians accomplishes anything.

Posted: 2/19/2016 4:34:02 AM EDT

[#4]

Moabs for everybody. They can start over from a clean slate and try again.

Posted: 2/19/2016 5:33:11 AM EDT

[#5]

non-combatants? Where? They support everything going on in Europe today. Everything going on in the middle east (if it's their particular religious sect that is doing it to some other religious sect). And they support the plans the more violent ones have for the rest of the world.

There are no non-combatants. The females are either actively supporting the violent males - or birthing and raising more of them to fight/kill there, or to travel to another country and fight/kill there. The children are growing up to fight/kill or to make more babies to do the same.

Get that figured out and understand what it means, or end up one of them, or dead.

Posted: 2/19/2016 5:39:36 AM EDT

[#6]

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The usa is an absolute hypocrite nation.

It's not a good thing

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The USA is filled with near illiterates who exemplify the Dunning-Kruger effect.

It's not a good thing.

Posted: 2/19/2016 5:39:42 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Yeah yeah, I know, Putin is a badass, he has the will to win and we are soft etc. etc.

I have to believe there are noncombatants in the areas being bombed right now.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b01_1455557247

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If we fought WWII like we fight wars now we would either 1) still be fighting the Germans 2) speaking German

I think I read somewhere " war is hell "

Posted: 2/19/2016 5:40:56 AM EDT

[#8]

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People today don't seem to realize what a real war looks like.

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Pretty much this.

That video right at 30 seconds...

Posted: 2/19/2016 5:51:58 AM EDT

[#9]

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If we fought WWII like we fight wars now we would either 1) still be fighting the Germans 2) speaking German

I think I read somewhere " war is hell "

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Yeah yeah, I know, Putin is a badass, he has the will to win and we are soft etc. etc.

I have to believe there are noncombatants in the areas being bombed right now.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b01_1455557247

If we fought WWII like we fight wars now we would either 1) still be fighting the Germans 2) speaking German

I think I read somewhere " war is hell "

Going with speaking German.

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Posted: 2/19/2016 6:03:32 AM EDT

[#10]

I'm lead to believe most posters here have no idea what we are doing right now and how effective it is. This is a long war no amount of carpet bombing is going to fix that.

Posted: 2/19/2016 6:29:53 AM EDT

[#11]

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I'm lead to believe most posters here have no idea what we are doing right now and how effective it is. This is a long war no amount of carpet bombing is going to fix that.

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An unmonitored wall in the middle of a desert isn't an effective obstacle either, but 2016 is all about rage and emotion.

FWIW, funny how RT hasn't been running stories about this like they were the reports of Ukrainian user of cluster munitions in Ukraine.

Posted: 2/19/2016 6:34:58 AM EDT

[#12]

You don't get it yet. That's ok. Just trust in the idea that war is HELL. And should be fought like you want the other guy to die first.... I get that yore brain flushed by Amerikan standards of war.

Posted: 2/19/2016 6:38:15 AM EDT

[#13]

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Have you ever considered running for office?

"If elected, I promise our nation will burn women, children, and old people until we are great once more..."

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Quoted:
America has lost the will to win a war.

We used to fire bomb and burn to death women, children and old people.............

We haven't won a war since.

Have you ever considered running for office?

"If elected, I promise our nation will burn women, children, and old people until we are great once more..."

He is correct in his statement. War is war, you either fight to win or you will lose. The media should not be allowed anywhere near a war zone and the troops should be able to carry out the mission at hand without political correctness.

Posted: 2/19/2016 6:41:58 AM EDT

[#14]

The hypocrisy is deafening. If the US was going the same, there would be thousands and thousands of protests around the world and demands for the President to be put on trial for war crimes.

But Russia? Nah, not a single fucking bit of complaints from those pussy hipsters.

Posted: 2/19/2016 6:51:31 AM EDT

[#15]

It isn't 1945 Germany where the best precision against strategic targets was massed formations that took out many city blocks to hit a factory complex because there was no other way.

It isn't 1945 Japan with formations of propeller bombers flying inside the jet stream so that the 1945 standard of "precision bombing" was ineffective due to wind when trying to take out a factory so lets fire bomb the whole city at low altitude to get the factory and displace the factory workers because it was a war of mass production.

This is low level CAS applied relatively indiscriminately with one plane fucking up mulitple city blocks and leaving them littered with far more UXO per sortie than WWII to accomplish... what? Some of you want to carpet bomb instead... ISIS is happy with rubble to hide in too and they don't care about the civilians that get pulverized.

So that is not effective use of modern airpower, tactical or strategic. If it isn't effective, then there is little moral justification for the cost to civilians.

Who are the civilized ones?

Not ISIS.

Not Russia.

And not the people in this thread who think that the Dresden raid was justified.

-Proud Jewish Grandson of a B17 Pilot

Posted: 2/19/2016 6:53:50 AM EDT

[#16]

Detroit, Baltimore, etc would benefit from this type of attack.

Posted: 2/19/2016 6:56:14 AM EDT

[#17]

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Don't start shit, there won't be shit.

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Yep. ZFG. Bomb away.

Posted: 2/19/2016 7:07:18 AM EDT

[#18]

approximately 10,000 children in sub-saharan africa starved to death yesterday.

another 10,000 will starve to death today.

I don't care.

From a purely military stand point, i have no idea how effect that bombing is or even what they were targeting.

An uparmored company of D10s with Tanks and APC's in support is the real carpet bombing in these types of wars.

That would be a much cheaper way to acheive the carthagian solution

Posted: 2/19/2016 7:12:57 AM EDT

[#19]

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Quoted:
People today don't seem to realize what a real war looks like.

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Jihadis wouldn't be given sanctuary by any city if the last city was flattened. And if they did move into a city most people would gtfo before it got flattened. It seems we started not winning wars when we started trying to be neat and surgical about things.

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Posted: 2/19/2016 7:24:12 AM EDT

[#20]

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People today don't seem to realize what a real war looks like.

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But I've seen the Mobile Strike commercials with Ahnuld, so I know you ain't talking 'bout me!

Posted: 2/19/2016 7:45:00 AM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:
approximately 10,000 children in sub-saharan africa starved to death yesterday.

another 10,000 will starve to death today.

I don't care.

From a purely military stand point, i have no idea how effect that bombing is or even what they were targeting.

An uparmored company of D10s with Tanks and APC's in support is the real carpet bombing in these types of wars.

That would be a much cheaper way to acheive the carthagian solution

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#BringBackOurGirls

Posted: 2/19/2016 7:50:48 AM EDT

[#22]

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Don't start shit, there won't be shit.

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That just about sums it up.

Posted: 2/19/2016 7:52:25 AM EDT

[#23]

War is hell, nothing less

Posted: 2/19/2016 7:57:54 AM EDT

[#24]

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The hypocrisy is deafening. If the US was going the same, there would be thousands and thousands of protests around the world and demands for the President to be put on trial for war crimes.

But Russia? Nah, not a single fucking bit of complaints from those pussy hipsters.

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End of thread.

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:08:39 AM EDT

[#25]

I'm surprised they're not using Napalm. I guess cluster bombs are cheaper. Reminds me of a great classic...Napalm sticks to kids!

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:12:30 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

I have to believe there are noncombatants in the areas being bombed right now.
]

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there always is when youre fighting pussies

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:12:49 AM EDT

[#27]

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Strange, I would think cluster munitions were highly effective in cities...
In a religious war (which is how the jihadis see it) there are no noncombatants.

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Notice how convenient that is? The only rule of engagement is: Engage.

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:13:34 AM EDT

[#28]

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Quoted:
America has lost the will to win a war.

We used to fire bomb and burn to death women, children and old people.............

We haven't won a war since.

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This.

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:17:09 AM EDT

[#29]

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Psyops. Keeps everybody inside and destroys the TV dishes. All day. Inside. No TV. Or internet. Cruel.

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Isn't that considered a crime against Humanity?

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:19:59 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
The usa is an absolute hypocrite nation.

It's not a good thing

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I'll tell you what's not a good thing, moral relativism.

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:21:03 AM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm lead to believe most posters here have no idea what we are doing right now and how effective it is. This is a long war no amount of carpet bombing is going to fix that.

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How about shag carpet bombing? It's all the rage, I hear.

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:21:31 AM EDT

[#32]

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:24:28 AM EDT

[#33]

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If they run, they're ISIS,

If they don't run, they're well disciplined ISIS.

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Posted: 2/19/2016 8:35:33 AM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
America has lost the will to win a war.

We used to fire bomb and burn to death women, children and old people.............

We haven't won a war since.

View Quote

^ This.

The only way to win a war is to completely destroy the enemy's thoughts that they might one day be able to make another attempt at it.

You have to attack their military, their infrastructure, civilians, means of production, and everything else.

Simply getting them to a cease fire or sign a treaty does not get it done.

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:39:53 AM EDT

[#35]

Turkey put troops just over the border and has blamed the PKK for the bomb blast. Russia said they will protect the YPG,who were their proxies during the Cold War when Öcalan was a Marxist.Turkey also hinted that if the US doesn't recognize that the PKK and by extension the YPG/YPJ are a terrorist group that they make close Incirlik to the USAF. NATO designates the PKK as terrorists,as does pretty much everyone barring Russia,China and the US.

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:47:19 AM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm lead to believe most posters here have no idea what we are doing right now and how effective it is. This is a long war no amount of carpet bombing is going to fix that.

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There is an amount that would absolutely fix it.

WHether we are willing to do it is the discussion.

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:48:25 AM EDT

[#37]

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^ This.

The only way to win a war is to completely destroy the enemy's thoughts that they might one day be able to make another attempt at it.

You have to attack their military, their infrastructure, civilians, means of production, and everything else.

Simply getting them to a cease fire or sign a treaty does not get it done.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
America has lost the will to win a war.

We used to fire bomb and burn to death women, children and old people.............

We haven't won a war since.

^ This.

The only way to win a war is to completely destroy the enemy's thoughts that they might one day be able to make another attempt at it.

You have to attack their military, their infrastructure, civilians, means of production, and everything else.

Simply getting them to a cease fire or sign a treaty does not get it done.

really?

Is that how the NVA defeated the United States?

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:55:47 AM EDT

[#38]

Just look at what happened at Grozny.

Russia is going to bomb indiscriminately and they're going to piss off a ton of people who would have likely stayed neutral otherwise. It will become an international affair and support from around the world will come pouring into Syria. Eventually Russia is going to have to switch to its ground game and ISIS is going to go back to fighting like it does best. Russians will eat IEDs daily until their political capital or economy is spent at which point they'll just bribe the meanest SOB there and go home.

Posted: 2/19/2016 8:58:53 AM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
America has lost the will to win a war.

We used to fire bomb and burn to death women, children and old people.............

We haven't won a war since.

View Quote

He is right you know.

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Posted: 2/19/2016 9:01:09 AM EDT

[#40]

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Quoted:
Just look at what happened at Grozny.

Russia is going to bomb indiscriminately and they're going to piss off a ton of people who would have likely stayed neutral otherwise. It will become an international affair and support from around the world will come pouring into Syria. Eventually Russia is going to have to switch to its ground game and ISIS is going to go back to fighting like it does best. Russians will eat IEDs daily until their political capital or economy is spent at which point they'll just bribe the meanest SOB there and go home.

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neutral arab muslims? lulz.

oh, and they are pissed? well I guess russia and iran and the MB will be killing each other for decades.

heart breaking to think about, isn't it?

like a cop in a bad SWAT raid; Oh Well.

Posted: 2/19/2016 9:03:27 AM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
People today don't seem to realize what a real war looks like.

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Looked pretty, to me.

Posted: 2/19/2016 9:06:13 AM EDT

[#42]

Anyone that runs is ISIS, any that don't run is well disciplined ISIS!

Posted: 2/19/2016 9:11:33 AM EDT

[#43]

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Don't start shit, there won't be shit.

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This has always been my thought as well.

Just like people saying, We shouldn't have dropped the bombs on Japan. Well boo fucking hoo, they started shit, we ended said shit.

Posted: 2/19/2016 9:17:01 AM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:

Have you ever considered running for office?

"If elected, I promise our nation will burn women, children, and old people until we are great once more..."

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
America has lost the will to win a war.

We used to fire bomb and burn to death women, children and old people.............

We haven't won a war since.

Have you ever considered running for office?

"If elected, I promise our nation will burn women, children, and old people until we are great once more..."

I couldn't afford the pay cut.

Posted: 2/19/2016 9:20:17 AM EDT

[#45]

GD doesn't care about individuals, GD just likes dead Muslims. Women, kids, infirm, whatever.

Posted: 2/19/2016 9:22:39 AM EDT

[#46]

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Yeah, it's perfectly o.k. if the U.S. kills civilians by the hundreds of thousands, but if someone else does it then it's a "war crime." If the Germans had fire bombed American cities like we did Dresden and others there wouldn't have been enough rope in Europe to hang them all.

No point getting up on your hind legs caterwauling about it: it's 100% true. That's the thing about killing civilians: if you're going to do it, you'd better win the war, because if you don't:

<a href="http://postimage.org/" target="_blank">http://s2.postimg.org/v16yjtyrt/image.jpg</a>

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My grandpa's B-17 dropped tons of bombs all over occupied Europe with the Eighth Air Force.

I'm sure some of them killed civilians, I'm also sure he never lost any sleep over it, nor should he have.

Yeah, it's perfectly o.k. if the U.S. kills civilians by the hundreds of thousands, but if someone else does it then it's a "war crime." If the Germans had fire bombed American cities like we did Dresden and others there wouldn't have been enough rope in Europe to hang them all.

No point getting up on your hind legs caterwauling about it: it's 100% true. That's the thing about killing civilians: if you're going to do it, you'd better win the war, because if you don't:

<a href="http://postimage.org/" target="_blank">http://s2.postimg.org/v16yjtyrt/image.jpg</a>

To the victors go the spoils, and the victors write the history books.

Had we lost the war I am sure you would be correct.

War is a horrific and terrible thing, it should not be engaged in lightly.

But when all options are exausted, war must be a catastrophic reminder that if you choose war, you risk losing EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE !!

Posted: 2/19/2016 9:22:48 AM EDT

[#47]

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Quoted:
People today don't seem to realize what a real war looks like.

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No shit. When did we start giving a shit about any of this? We won WWII by firebombing the holy hell out of entire cities, repeatedly, en masse.

Posted: 2/19/2016 9:23:47 AM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
America has lost the will to win a war.

We used to fire bomb and burn to death women, children and old people.............

We haven't won a war since.

View Quote

You bet me to it. Well said.

Total warfare is best only warfare.

Posted: 2/19/2016 9:26:40 AM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:

neutral arab muslims? lulz.

oh, and they are pissed? well I guess russia and iran and the MB will be killing each other for decades.

heart breaking to think about, isn't it?

like a cop in a bad SWAT raid; Oh Well.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Just look at what happened at Grozny.

Russia is going to bomb indiscriminately and they're going to piss off a ton of people who would have likely stayed neutral otherwise. It will become an international affair and support from around the world will come pouring into Syria. Eventually Russia is going to have to switch to its ground game and ISIS is going to go back to fighting like it does best. Russians will eat IEDs daily until their political capital or economy is spent at which point they'll just bribe the meanest SOB there and go home.

neutral arab muslims? lulz.

oh, and they are pissed? well I guess russia and iran and the MB will be killing each other for decades.

heart breaking to think about, isn't it?

like a cop in a bad SWAT raid; Oh Well.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." I get that, I really do.

I'm just nervous these heavy handed tactics will worsen a bad situation and it will end up hurting US interests. Russia has a history of worsening what should have been minor conflicts. In 2020 I don't want to see Stallone in First Blood part 5 helping these poor Syrians against the Soviets Russians.