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I'm not even sure I want to go on with this. You're obviously beyond salvageable.
If the USA had not joined the war it would have lasted longer and the cummunist threat would have ceased to exist and you would have been left with a united europe which is already happening (EU). View Quote LOL - and you accuse ME of guessing!? Actually, I'm a strong believer that Russia would have won with or without US involvement, it just would have taken her longer. In all fairness the Russians did most of the work in defeating the Germans. So much for the illusion of the slavic 'untermensch'! No, we would NOT have been left with a 'united europe'. The Nazi goal was not a 'united europe', it was a Europe under total German domination. They may have let a few non-Germans live for slave labor purposes though. Hell the only true reason the US got involved was because of pearl harbor. If that had not happened you wouldnt have ever heard about the concentration camps, germany would probably have colonies on the moon. Instead you got communist mass graves you never heard about and a EU that just wants the USA to pay for all the poor people of the world. View Quote America didn't join the war, war came to us. Of course we joined when Japan attacked us, what choice was there?? And it was Germany who declared war on the US - just a couple days after Pearl Harbor. Sound convenient? germany would probably have colonies on the moon. View Quote No offense, but Germany is WAY overrated, JMHO. Well good for them. However no thanks to the USA. View Quote Quite the contrary. See my last post. instead of just being another post to skip over in a thread filled with complete and utter stupidity. View Quote Most of which are coming from you. |
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Quoted: I'm not even sure I want to go on with this. You're obviously beyond salvageable. View Quote This from the guy who's orginal post could almost be used to justify Osama Bin Ladens attacks on the Pentagon and WTC. LOL - and you accuse ME of guessing!? View Quote Yah, like there is a way of figuring out how the timeline would have unfolded had things gone the other way. Atleast I know what I say on how things "could" have happened its an approximation. Actually, I'm a strong believer that Russia would have won with or without US involvement, it just would have taken her longer. In all fairness the Russians did most of the work in defeating the Germans. So much for the illusion of the slavic 'untermensch'! View Quote Actually, the commies would have lost the war had the war continued past 1945 due to the fact the Nazi's would have had the nuclear bomb launched by V2 rockets and a orbital bomber. Not to mention even when Germany was losing the war the casualty rates for russian soldiers was 10 dead russians for every 1 dead German. Even today Russia refuses to give the exact number of dead they had during WW2. And then there was the Russian invasion of Finland, a small country with very few people, thats almost won the war and a Finnish sniper was able to make a world record in confirmed kills taking out commies. No my little friend, Russia would have lost the war. No, we would NOT have been left with a 'united europe'. The Nazi goal was not a 'united europe', it was a Europe under total German domination. They may have let a few non-Germans live for slave labor purposes though. View Quote Instead now we have a europe under UN control. What a great thing that is. Atleast with Hitler we would be LIVING on the moon and technology would have progressed much faster. America didn't join the war, war came to us. Of course we joined when Japan attacked us, what choice was there?? And it was Germany who declared war on the US - just a couple days after Pearl Harbor. Sound convenient? View Quote Germany had to declare war because of their alliance with Japan. They had no choice. Go read a history book. No offense, but Germany is WAY overrated, JMHO. View Quote Are they? All your rocket sciense came from them, all your jet technology originated from them, even your stealth technology. They even invented the media machine that is now found in the US. Quite the contrary. See my last post. View Quote Oh yes! Aid! Please nuke the entire world and give us money so we can become better! [whacko] Most of which are coming from you. View Quote You wish. The facts hurt and its hard to imagine you live in a country that supported a dictator worst then Hitler. Get over it, I know I did. |
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I'm done posting in this thread. I will just whait and read all the "You're a racist" post to come!
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Quoted: Actually, the commies would have lost the war had the war continued past 1945 due to the fact the Nazi's would have had the nuclear bomb launched by V2 rockets and a orbital bomber. View Quote Germany couldn't have made a nuclear bomb. They tried to, but they did not have the resources to make it. It requried too much heavy metals and processing equipment. Look at the effort and materials that the US had to put into it. The Hanover Plant (in Washington?) was huge and emoloyed tens of thousands of people. The Germans couldn't even field the Me 262 because they couldn't make enough of the engines for the plane (which is why the first jet engine fighter wasn't seen too much). Only America could have made it, since their industy infrastructre was not destroyed by war. Germany had to declare war because of their alliance with Japan. They had no choice. Go read a history book. View Quote maybe you should read the original treaty. The treaty the Germans signed stated they only had to come to the Japanese DEFENSE, but since the Japanese were the aggressor, they didn't have to do squat. Why didn't the Japanese attack the Soviets because of this treaty? Because the Germans attacked first, so Japan didn't have to do anything, so they didn't. Theory is Hitler decided to declare war on the US to try to get brownie points with Japan to get them to attack Russia on their Eastern flank. |
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Quoted: Garandman, you forgot the real reasons why people feel the US should back up Jewrael; All Muslims are terrorist and must die for Sept 11th just like all Germans are nazis and must die for the holocaust. And killing civilians is a bad thing when Palestinians do it but when the US bombed civilians with nukes in Japan, killed innocent women and children in Dresden and napalmed villages of civies in Nam those where all military targets. [whacko][whacko][whacko] View Quote You forget that we did not go looking for WWII, it came to us, despite the majority of the population's reluctance to get involved. Not that it would have mattered anyway. Hitler was not going to stop with Europe and Russia. It was only a matter of time before the Germans came across the Atlantic after us. I wouldn't have supposed that I would have to explain to anyone the difference between Palestinians and Americans and their respective styles of 'fighting'. In Dresden, Japan, and even Viet Nam, the targets of our attacks were not the civilian populace of the countries in question. They were all chosen for the reliance to the enemy's ability to wage war. You go into such things knowing there will be civilian causalities, but seeing how the enemy was not considerate enough to put your targets far away from the civilian population, you have little choice but to bomb them. Japan was too stuipid to admit they were beaten. Would you have us prolong the war for years and sacrifice the lives of hundreds of thousands more more US service men needlessly? Palestinians, on the other hand, purposely target civilians. They rarely attack military targets. It is lunicy to compare them with us. We do not target non-combatants. Only a fool blames all Muslims or the religion for Sept 11. I do believe that all involved need to be hunted down and brought to justice, regardless of their respective religion, no matter how long it takes. The real hypocrisy is prosecuting our own war on terrorists while telling a country that sees a hell of a lot more of it to stand down. We would never accept weakly suicide bombings in this country. I see no reason whatsoever to expect anyone else to... |
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Now, take those reasons above, and remove the word “Israel” and insert the words “Republic of Korea.” OR EVEN "Taiwan." Then, compare the non-stop, incessant ranting of how we should support Israel, with the almost complete and total silence about the republic of Korea AND Taiwan and their mortal enemys (as well as ours) China and North Korea. An almost exact parallel as to the nature of our ally, (Israel compared to RoK or Taiwan) yet an IMMENSE difference in the foreign policy the Israel supporters desire. If the discussion is about ANY nation OTHER than Israel, we all hold to a non-interventionist, non foreign welfare, sovereignty of the USA, keep our tax dollars at home, show-me-where-the-Constitution- says- we can- do- that, less gov’t, America first policy. Throw Israel in the mix, and some of us turn into soccer moms. View Quote I have no problems with that. Feel free to substitute either country, I believe in supporting both. I thought thew absence of bitching about either meant that most people here felt the same way as I do. I very much would like to see both Taiwan and the Republic of Korea remain free. I also believe we have a responsibility to them as allies to help remain free in whatever way we can. If we do not want to do that, we should end our alliances with them. The same applies to Israel, we are their allies and as such, we help in their defense if nesses. It is no different than what we do with Germany, Great Britain, Japan, Korea, and many other countries world-wide. For crying out loud, most of "NATO's" defense during the cold war consisted of US units stationed in Europe. In Israel's case, we are even supporting their enemies. We give immense amounts of case to the Palestinians each and every year. I often hear people asking what we get from Israel in return for our support. An interesting question. I offer another: What do we get from our support of the "Palestinian Authority" other than a major headache and Palestinians dancing in the street when 3,000 of our citizens are killed in a brutal attack? Absolutely nothing. For that matter, what do we get from the billions we pump into Europe and Russia yearly? Not a hell of a lot. |
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Amen, Brother [b]tep0583[/b]!
The reason that some expect Israel to shut down its excellent foray into the West Bank is because they really don't give a rat's ass about Israeli civilians being targeted by the very same terrorists that target Americans. As long as the terrorism is confined to the Holy Land and specifically to Jews, there is no problem for them to get riled up over. Simple as that. Israel is taking care of the problem very well thank you. As they always have. With or without the help of such fair weather friends as Britain and France. Hopefully, the US will never fail to be a friend to Israel. Eric The(Don'tForget,OneDayIt[u]Will[/u]BeIsraelAgainstTheWorld!)Hun[>]:)] |
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Here's an article you should all read:
[url]http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/094/oped/The_road_to_war_in_the_Mideast+.shtml[/url] |
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Quoted: The following are the advertised reasons why we should support Israel – 1. Israel is our ally. 2. Israel has voted with us in the UN. 3. Israel is the ONLY democracy in the area. 4. Israel is in a fight for their very survival. It’s our moral duty to support them. 5. We share a common enemy with Israel. 6. Helping Israel fight oppression is helping ourselves 7. Israel is the victim here. 8. Israels opposition is morally repugnant. 9. A thousand other variations of these themes. View Quote Now, take those reasons above, and remove the word “Israel” and insert the words “Republic of Korea.” OR EVEN "Taiwan." Then, compare the non-stop, incessant ranting of how we should support Israel, with the almost complete and total silence about the republic of Korea AND Taiwan and their mortal enemys (as well as ours) China and North Korea. An almost exact parallel as to the nature of our ally, (Israel compared to RoK or Taiwan) yet an IMMENSE difference in the foreign policy the Israel supporters desire. If the discussion is about ANY nation OTHER than Israel, we all hold to a non-interventionist, non foreign welfare, sovereignty of the USA, keep our tax dollars at home, show-me-where-the-Constitution- says- we can- do- that, less gov’t, America first policy. Throw Israel in the mix, and some of us turn into soccer moms. Hypocrisy. Plain and simple. Or at the very least IMMENSE bias. A bias SO obvious, it discredits those who hold it. My suspicion? It all goes back to alleged requirement of Scripture to support Israel, and the misunderstanding of who "Israel" really is, according to the Scripture. Yet FEW are willing to discuss that with me. And the few who do REFUSE to discuss the Scriptures I present. View Quote Minus the scripture aspect of this topic, I have to say the Garandman has hit an absolute bullseye with his take on this. I've had FAR more occasion to disagree with him then to agree, but credit where credit is do, very good points.....I agree 100%. |
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Quoted: Actually, I'm a strong believer that Russia would have won with or without US involvement, it just would have taken her longer. In all fairness the Russians did most of the work in defeating the Germans. So much for the illusion of the slavic 'untermensch'! View Quote Actually, the commies would have lost the war had the war continued past 1945 due to the fact the Nazi's would have had the nuclear bomb launched by V2 rockets and a orbital bomber. Not to mention even when Germany was losing the war the casualty rates for russian soldiers was 10 dead russians for every 1 dead German. Even today Russia refuses to give the exact number of dead they had during WW2. And then there was the Russian invasion of Finland, a small country with very few people, thats almost won the war and a Finnish sniper was able to make a world record in confirmed kills taking out commies. No my little friend, Russia would have lost the war. Call it any way you would like, but by 1945 the "commies" had the Germans stopped cold. I do not think they could have liberated Europe (nor do I think they would have tried. Uncle Joe was all abnout his own skin.) No, we would NOT have been left with a 'united europe'. The Nazi goal was not a 'united europe', it was a Europe under total German domination. They may have let a few non-Germans live for slave labor purposes though. View Quote Instead now we have a europe under UN control. What a great thing that is. Atleast with Hitler we would be LIVING on the moon and technology would have progressed much faster. We would be living nowhere. If Germany had won WWII, you and I would both have never existed. Hitler had no intention whatsoever of leaving us alone indefinitely. He was just smart enough to try to keep us out of the war until he was ready to deal with us on his terms. One of the only smart decisions the man ever made. He did admire us, but that we in no way going to keep him from coming after us. America didn't join the war, war came to us. Of course we joined when Japan attacked us, what choice was there?? And it was Germany who declared war on the US - just a couple days after Pearl Harbor. Sound convenient? View Quote Germany had to declare war because of their alliance with Japan. They had no choice. Go read a history book. Wrong. Germany declared war on us because Hitler was surprised by Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. He never envisioned the Japanese taking such action and was so shaken when they did that he acted without thinking in the aftermath. This a pattern he would follow more and more as the war progressed. No offense, but Germany is WAY overrated, JMHO. View Quote Are they? All your rocket sciense came from them, all your jet technology originated from them, even your stealth technology. They even invented the media machine that is now found in the US. Stealth technology came largely from a Russian. Give them some credit when it is due. Of course, they had no idea whatsoever as to what to do with it. Our jet technology was well under way, but no one making decisions in the military saw the use for them. We could have had an operational model before the Me262 debuted. A lot of the rest did come from the Germans. We would never have put a man on the moon by '69 without German scientists. |
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(cont)
Quite the contrary. See my last post. View Quote Oh yes! Aid! Please nuke the entire world and give us money so we can become better! [whacko] View Quote Most of which are coming from you. View Quote You wish. The facts hurt and its hard to imagine you live in a country that supported a dictator worst then Hitler. Get over it, I know I did. View Quote WWII was not about ridding the world of Hitler. I honestly don't know where everyone got this idea. Spielberg even ascertains that the war was about stopping the Holocaust. Funny us going to war over something we didn't know about. Even if we did, I seriously doubt it would have been enough to get us involved. Uncle Joe wasn't marching across Europe in a bid to control the world. Hitler was. Had 'ol Joe been the aggressor in WWII and we were still forced into the war, we would have dealt with him. Nobody wanted years more war, even to rid ourselves of a monster such as Stalin. Those are the hard facts of the matter. |
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Quoted: Amen, Brother [b]tep0583[/b]! The reason that some expect Israel to shut down its excellent foray into the West Bank is because they really don't give a rat's ass about Israeli civilians being targeted by the very same terrorists that target Americans. As long as the terrorism is confined to the Holy Land and specifically to Jews, there is no problem for them to get riled up over. Simple as that. Israel is taking care of the problem very well thank you. As they always have. With or without the help of such fair weather friends as Britain and France. Hopefully, the US will never fail to be a friend to Israel. Eric The(Don'tForget,OneDayIt[u]Will[/u]BeIsraelAgainstTheWorld!)Hun[>]:)] View Quote Hun... If someone is beating you with a baseball bat, and you don't stand a chance without [i]some[/i] sort of weapon, would you reach down and grab a hand full of sand to throw in your attackers eyes in the hopes of leveling the playing field to some degree? Should the Palestinians resolve themselves to any fate the Isreali Army cares to impose upon them simply because they don't have an army of their own? I feel absolutely certain that if the Palestinians had a real army of their own, their tactics would mirror the tactics used against them. They wouldn't bother with suicide bombers if they had a more effective option. Resorting to that is the "sand in the eyes"....and that's as effective as their abilities get. The only other choice would be to totally roll over. I don't personally think that suicide bombers do much for the Palestinian cause. They might represent a minor and fleeting victory of sorts to those that subscribe to their cause, but national security on a large level is not threatened in Isreal as a result. It's a brutal and savage approach, but again, do they have another truly viable way to match the force used against them? I would never opt for any sort of suicide style of warfare if I lived in similar circumstances. I don't buy in to the whole "killing for god and being rewarded in the afterlife" bullshit. I think it's very counter productive in a number of ways, not the least of which is that to engage in it always equals dying for the attacker. I would, however, do just about anything short of that to inflict as much physical or psychological damage as possible. I wouldn't care what the world thought of my methods at all. I'd be far more concerned in seeking justice and defending my family by any means necessary. Shock value would be high on my list of skills to perfect. I personally can't condem anyone for doing the same....even if they employ tactics based on their religious beliefs that I don't personally share. This aint like 09/11. This isn't about an attacker thats a very specific terrorist cell. Palestinians are an entire nationality scraping by any means to gain what they've lost. Lot's of people on this side of the pond would feel exactly as they do if similar conditions were imposed upon them. |
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Here's your answer, [b]M4[/b]:
[url]http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/094/oped/The_road_to_war_in_the_Mideast+.shtml[/url] The Palestinians were on their way to having a very nice state of their own, thank you, but it appears that they wanted more. That's too bad. [b]Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered![/b] Very apropos, huh? Eric The(Swineherding)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: Amen, Brother [b]tep0583[/b]! The reason that some expect Israel to shut down its excellent foray into the West Bank is because they really don't give a rat's ass about Israeli civilians being targeted by the very same terrorists that target Americans. As long as the terrorism is confined to the Holy Land and specifically to Jews, there is no problem for them to get riled up over. Simple as that. Israel is taking care of the problem very well thank you. As they always have. With or without the help of such fair weather friends as Britain and France. Hopefully, the US will never fail to be a friend to Israel. Eric The(Don'tForget,OneDayIt[u]Will[/u]BeIsraelAgainstTheWorld!)Hun[>]:)] View Quote I'm just really weary of all this. I has become very obvious to me that Arafat wants no peace and therefore we cannot expect Israel to negotiate endlessly with those who have no intention of negotiating in good faith. When Arafat walked away from Barok's offer of everything he'd been demanding, I realized where the real problem in the middle east lay. Right at Arafat's feet. This whole thing seems pretty darn simple to me. One side is targeting civilians, the other is taking whatever steps are necessary to protect themselves. I would expect us to do no different as I would expect no different from any of our allies. Had Israel wanted to be the aggressor, this whole thing would have been settled long ago... |
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Now garandman is resorting to name calling, ie 'Israel buttkissers'. The last resort of someone who is absolutely wrong. Still better than being a 'Palestinian buttkisser'. Smooch, smooch.
And Scarecrow is the only one with the 'truth' about WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Aren't you all humbled to be in the presence of such genius. Give me a break. Scarecrow, you are a flaming idiot. I loved this from her I'm done posting in this thread. I will just whait and read all the "You're a racist" post to come! View Quote |
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1. Israel is our ally.
[red]Allies are mutually beneficial, not a welfare case with both hands constantly taking tens of billions of dollars a year.[/red] 2. Israel has voted with us in the UN. [red]Big deal. That ain't worth $30 billion a year in my book...not even close.[/red] 3. Israel is the ONLY democracy in the area. [red]And what essential value does that get us? A continent of people who hate us.[/red] 4. Israel is in a fight for their very survival. It’s our moral duty to support them. [red]So are the Palestinians.[/red] 5. We share a common enemy with Israel. [red]We share common enemies with a lot of people. We share them with Isreal exclusively based on our patronage of Isreal. That isn't true for any other country.[/red] 6. Helping Israel fight oppression is helping ourselves. [red]To some degree....not $30 billion a year though, not anywhere near that. Again, a welfare relationship with little up side.[/red] 7. Israel is the victim here. [red]I guess you're right, Palestinians don't have families to be killed do they? Everyone that dies is a psychotic suicide bomber...that's right. No dead mothers or kids...all dead Palestinians are terrorists with bombs strapped to them....now I remember.[/red] 8. Israels opposition is morally repugnant. [red]Their methods can be, they as a people deserving of a country of their own certainly aren't.[/red] |
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Yes, [b]M4[/b], I believe you made it clear that you agree with [b]garandman[/b].
Is there anything new, you'd like to add? Eric The(ThoughtNot!)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: [b]Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered![/b] Very apropos, huh? Eric The(Swineherding)Hun[>]:)] View Quote Real Christian of you Hun. Nice attitude. I think I heard that exact sentiment spoken by the Nazi's back in Hitlers time. I suppose in your context it's MUCH different though, huh? And if that's the Christian way to be....to speak of people like that, then your church isn't one shred better than those who have spoken that identical sentiment. |
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Quoted: Yes, [b]M4[/b], I believe you made it clear that you agree with [b]garandman[/b]. Is there anything new, you'd like to add? Eric The(ThoughtNot!)Hun[>]:)] View Quote Garandman will happily tell you that this is maybe the first time in my 2000+ posts that I have agreed with him. I'd call that new. |
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[size=4]Hey! Great News, M4[/size=4]
I found some folks who think just the way you and [b]garandman[/b] think: [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020419/capt.1019212061.australia_mideast_protest_syd102.jpg[/img] Note the newspaper the crowd is holding up - it's the [b]Socialist Worker[/b], a commie rag, and it has two photos on the front page with the caption: [size=4]World's Biggest Terrorists[/size=4] Unfortunately, they included Sharon's photo with that mass murderer, George W. Bush! Can you believe the gall of those commies! But at least you and [b]garandman[/b] have a lot of company in support of your position! That's gotta count for a lot! [:D] Me, I could never agree with the commies about anything, but you guys are just more open minded than I am, no doubt about it! Eric The(Right?)Hun[>]:)] |
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What a five star, blue ribbon total ass you must be Hun.
Yeah, I'm a communist now. Could you be more of a total idiot? Could you reach further in your quest for the absurd? Yeah, you got a photo. One photo, and that represents EVERYONE. Everyone who doesn't brand the star of judah on their chest and march to the Israeli anthem with you. Guess with a post count like yours, the emphesis is clearly on the quantity, not the quality. Like I said....what a complete ass. Eric(Can't Deal w/ Your Points, So I Resort To Fictional & Personal Attacks)Hun[>]:)] |
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Post from M4 -
Real Christian of you Hun. Nice attitude. View Quote Sorry, but it has nothing to do with my being a Christian or not, but everything to do with me being smart enough to understand just who it is that is at fault in all this bloodshed. Jesus will forgive me for any intemperate feelings I may have.[:D] I think I heard that exact sentiment spoken by the Nazi's back in Hitlers time. View Quote Lord, [b]M4[/b], I had no idea that you were that old that you actually [b]heard[/b] such talk by the Nazis back in Hitler's time! I suppose in your context it's MUCH different though, huh? View Quote Yes, the Nazis were wrong, the Israelis are right. That pretty much covers it. And if that's the Christian way to be....to speak of people like that, then your church isn't one shred better than those who have spoken that identical sentiment. View Quote I'm sorry, but I am simply not the spokesman for 'the Christian church' or the 'Christian way' but do you really care whether I am or not? You're just trying to be obnoxious. Eric The(SpeakingOnlyForMyself)Hun[>]:)] |
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Post from M4 -
Yeah, I'm a communist now. Could you be more of a total idiot? Could you reach further in your quest for the absurd? View Quote I have no idea about your personal politics, but you do share the same view of Sharon and the Israelis that these commies do! I would be embarrassed, but you do not seem to be, very well. And insofar as being an idiot, or not, you are the one who actually agrees with [u]these[/u] idiots, not I! Yeah, you got a photo. One photo, and that represents EVERYONE. View Quote Unfortunately, these sorts of photos come from the Muslim world by the thousands - you really need to check your mail, you probably have some sent to you from an admirer. Everyone who doesn't brand the star of judah on their chest and march to the Israeli anthem with you. View Quote BTW, it's the Star of David. I could say something nice and provocative right now, but you would just pout and call me a horrible sort of Christian, so I'll let you imagine what I should say. Guess with a post count like yours, the emphesis is clearly on the quantity, not the quality. Like I said....what a complete ass. View Quote That's 'emphasis', and your emphasis is clearly not on quality, clarity, or factual accuracy! Eric(Can't Deal w/ Your Points, So I Resort To Fictional & Personal Attacks)Hun View Quote When you finally get around to posting some 'points' that make sense, I will deal with them. Up to this point, I have seen none. And regarding personal attacks, up to this point, you have seen none. Eric The(Shouldn'tYouBePaperingAHouseOfWorshipOrSomething?)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: My suspicion? It all goes back to alleged requirement of Scripture to support Israel, and the misunderstanding of who "Israel" really is, according to the Scripture. Yet FEW are willing to discuss that with me. And the few who do REFUSE to discuss the Scriptures I present. View Quote This is all the more reason for the seperation of church and state. If private organizations or individuals want to lend monetary support to Israel or whoever else they want to, they are free to do so. I have an immense problem with those trying to fulfill some theological prophecy using tax dollars. |
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Post from Imbroglio -
This is all the more reason for the seperation of church and state. View Quote Because [b]garandman[/b] believes that everyone in Washington DC is trying push a biblical prophecy, that actually runs counter to US national interests? Hardly! Do you really think that Israel's place in prophecy and the battle of Armageddon are actually discussed in Cabinet Meetings, or in Congressional hearings? If private organizations or individuals want to lend monetary support to Israel or whoever else they want to, they are free to do so. View Quote And if you don't think that the US government should, then you are free to run for Congress or the Presidency to see that our national policy is changed to fit your way of thinking, or to support those who do. The US has excellent reasons for supporting Israel that have absolutely nothing to do with some 'biblical prophecy' argument. That's simply [b]garandman's[/b] straw man argument. I have an immense problem with those trying to fulfill some theological prophecy using tax dollars. View Quote Why? They have apparently 'won' the argument if you believe that's the [b]only[/b] reason that we support Israel today! There are a whole host of reasons to support Israel, but simply as a means for trying to encourage the fulfillment of 'biblical prophecy' is probably the least reason to do so. Eric The(Reasonable)Hun[>]:)] |
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I see NO REASON to support Israel with U.S. government assets. I have yet to hear one VALID "excellent reason" you claim exists. If you want to send YOUR OWN MONEY to support a holy war, I am not stopping you.
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Why should I do such a thing? It's being done already by our government!
[b]You[/b] should try and stop it if you don't approve! I have yet to hear one VALID "excellent reason" you claim exists. View Quote You are simply [b]not[/b] listening! Eric The(NotHoldingHisBreath)Hun[>]:)] |
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If Israel falls, the same people who smiled and cheered when the Trade Centers fell, would smile again.
I don't want them to be happy. I want them to die. Is that too much to ask? |
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Quoted: The US has excellent reasons for supporting Israel that have absolutely nothing to do with some 'biblical prophecy' argument. Eric The(Reasonable)Hun[>]:)] View Quote HUN, would you please list three (3) of those reasons ? [?] |
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Quoted: Please explain how the US shares the burden for crimes committed by the Soviets. View Quote US banking interests out of New York largly financed Lenins return to Russia. With plenty of cash!! |
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No, [b]subsailor[/b], I cannot agree to your request, unfortunately.
I count on folks having read my past posts on what we get out of the equation for supporting Israel. As much as I love to hear myself talk, I cannot keep posting the same material over and over. You may either do a search on any thread with Israel in the subject title which runs longer than two pages.... Or you may use your own imagination.[:D] Eric The(Hey!MySideInThisArgumentIsWinningHereAndThere-SoI'mHappy)Hun[>]:)] |
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When Arafat walked away from Barok's offer of everything he'd been demanding, I realized where the real problem in the middle east lay. Right at Arafat's feet.
[/quote] I believe you are poorly informed regarding this issue. |
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Quoted: When Arafat walked away from Barok's offer of everything he'd been demanding, I realized where the real problem in the middle east lay. Right at Arafat's feet. View Quote I believe you are poorly informed regarding this issue. View Quote You are quite free to educate me about this. It is a free country most of the time after all. I still see Arafat doing nothing to stop the violence over there and everything to keep it going. BTW- I did read that in a published news story some years ago. I cannot remember where exactly I read this, but I have never seen anything to the contrary and I remember judgeing the source to be pretty credible. They were reporting about the same thing that everyone else was at the time. |
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Quoted: Germany couldn't have made a nuclear bomb. They tried to, but they did not have the resources to make it. It requried too much heavy metals and processing equipment. Look at the effort and materials that the US had to put into it. The Hanover Plant (in Washington?) was huge and emoloyed tens of thousands of people. View Quote Germany also did not have the British as allies. It was early British research brought to the U.S. along with the researchers that gave us the lead. That lead coupled with the Nazis insane desire to rid themselves of Jewish scientist insured that Germany would be second with the bomb. (Second was not a winner in the A-bomb world !) Strangely the Soviets saved Germany from the "bomb" by insuring Germany's defeat before completition of the A-bomb. |
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Quoted: When Arafat walked away from Barok's offer of everything he'd been demanding, I realized where the real problem in the middle east lay. Right at Arafat's feet. View Quote I believe you are poorly informed regarding this issue. View Quote Actually not true, the fault lies totally with the Hebrews.. When Moses and the rest of the crew came to the "promised land", they were commanded by G#d to kill ALL the inhabitants. They didn't. They are paying for that (and other) disobeidence now....(Yes, I know, some here don't believe the current inhabitants of the state of Isreal are the "real" Isreal.) |
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Quoted: Eric The(Hey!MySideInThisArgumentIsWinningHereAndThere-SoI'mHappy)Hun[>]:)] View Quote Eric, some time ago we established your number one side was the United States. Your side is losing every day. |
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Yet more people who feel the way you do:
[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020419/capt.1019252159.france_mideast_palestinians_par112.jpg[/img] Once again, I am quite disturbed to see Sharon's name linked to that 'human butcher', as he is referred to in that sign, Pres. Bush. I would have said 'thought' the way you do, but I didn't want to be presumptuous.[:D] Eric The(PoliteAboveAllElse)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: Quoted: When Arafat walked away from Barok's offer of everything he'd been demanding, I realized where the real problem in the middle east lay. Right at Arafat's feet. View Quote I believe you are poorly informed regarding this issue. View Quote You are quite free to educate me about this. It is a free country most of the time after all. I still see Arafat doing nothing to stop the violence over there and everything to keep it going. BTW- I did read that in a published news story some years ago. I cannot remember where exactly I read this, but I have never seen anything to the contrary and I remember judgeing the source to be pretty credible. They were reporting about the same thing that everyone else was at the time. View Quote tep, I too have heard the story continually that it was Arafat that walked away from a deal guaranteeing him and the Palestinians 95% of blah, blah. Most often I heard 95% of the land requested. Turns out that land offered was 88% and not 95%. Still not a bad percentage. However, there were two major problems with the 88%: 1) The land was 'NOT CONTIGUOUS'. A piece over here and a piece over there. 2) The 12% in question retained by the Israelis held the water. The Israelis can tell any lie and depend on the American media to perpetuate that lie. I know it must be schocking to all to hear the American media is capable of lying ! |
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Post from 5subslr5 -
Eric, some time ago we established your number one side was the United States. Your side is losing every day. View Quote No, [b]subsailor[/b], Israel is attacking the very folks who would one day just have easily sent other people's children into US markets, churches, wedding chapels, pizzerias, discos, etc., with explosive belts attached! I see it as a [b]win-win[/b] situation! The filthy swine are being cornered (Arafat), arrested (maybe 1,200 or so), or eliminated! [b]Could you have ever imagined 200 armed Muslim men running into a Christian church for sanctuary from the Jews?[/b] Well guess what? You don't have to imagine it any longer, just turn on the news! Heh-heh-heh. I would be willing to bet that both Crusader and Saracen leaders are spinning in their graves today! And just wait to they get a load of what might happen next! Eric The(TheyMayRiseOuttaThoseGraves!)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: No, [b]subsailor[/b], I cannot agree to your request, unfortunately. I count on folks having read my past posts on what we get out of the equation for supporting Israel. As much as I love to hear myself talk, I cannot keep posting the same material over and over. You may either do a search on any thread with Israel in the subject title which runs longer than two pages.... Or you may use your own imagination.[:D] Eric The(Hey!MySideInThisArgumentIsWinningHereAndThere-SoI'mHappy)Hun[>]:)] View Quote I remember the "...only democracy in the region....." reason. (A non-reason) Then there's the ".....Israel is strategic to the U.S. reason"........ (Another complete fabrication as Israel is in no way strategic to U.S. interests in the region. Arabia and Turkey are strategic in that region.) Then my memory goes to religious reasons where I do not participate. Am I missing something ?? |
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[b]Could you have ever imagined 200 armed Muslim men running into a Christian church for sanctuary from the Jews?[/b]
Now that I think about that sentence, isn't that strangely prophetic - the Jews are leading the infidels to Christ! I would think [b]garandman[/b] would be ecstatic![:D] Eric The(ButPossiblyNot!)Hun[>]:)] |
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Originally Posted By EricTheHun The filthy swine are being cornered (Arafat), arrested (maybe 1,200 or so), or eliminated! Eric The(TheyMayRiseOuttaThoseGraves!)Hun[>]:)] View Quote I find it odd that all the "filthy swine" killed by Israelis are Palestinian gun men where only innocent Israeli civilians are killed by Palestinians. Suppose both are lying ?? |
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Post from 5subslr5 -
I remember the "...only democracy in the region....." reason. (A non-reason) View Quote Well, you may think it's a non-reason, but the United States has a long history of support and encouragement of democracy in other parts of the world, for strategic reasons, along with some purely altruistic ones, as well. Then there's the ".....Israel is strategic to the U.S. reason"........ (Another complete fabrication as Israel is in no way strategic to U.S. interests in the region. Arabia and Turkey are strategic in that region.) View Quote Well, I think Israel is strategic, and so do (and did) a long line of experts in the field. Then my memory goes to religious reasons where I do not participate. View Quote And I have always said there were excellent reasons for supporting Israel that had nothing to do with any religious considerations! Eric The(JustRe-readMyPriorPosts-You'llComeUpWithSomethingYouMayThinkIsValid)Hun[>]:)] |
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Post from 5subslr5 -
I find it odd that all the "filthy swine" killed by Israelis are Palestinian gun men where only innocent Israeli civilians are killed by Palestinians. View Quote Odd? You should find it [b]outrageous![/b] Do you know of any 'filthy' Israelis who were killed by suicide bombers? I don't. It appears, at least on the face of it, that all of the Israelis that have been killed by such terrorists were 'innocent.' Eric The(Outraged,AsYouShouldBe)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When Arafat walked away from Barok's offer of everything he'd been demanding, I realized where the real problem in the middle east lay. Right at Arafat's feet. View Quote I believe you are poorly informed regarding this issue. View Quote You are quite free to educate me about this. It is a free country most of the time after all. I still see Arafat doing nothing to stop the violence over there and everything to keep it going. BTW- I did read that in a published news story some years ago. I cannot remember where exactly I read this, but I have never seen anything to the contrary and I remember judgeing the source to be pretty credible. They were reporting about the same thing that everyone else was at the time. View Quote tep, I too have heard the story continually that it was Arafat that walked away from a deal guaranteeing him and the Palestinians 95% of blah, blah. Most often I heard 95% of the land requested. Turns out that land offered was 88% and not 95%. Still not a bad percentage. However, there were two major problems with the 88%: 1) The land was 'NOT CONTIGUOUS'. A piece over here and a piece over there. 2) The 12% in question retained by the Israelis held the water. The Israelis can tell any lie and depend on the American media to perpetuate that lie. I know it must be schocking to all to hear the American media is capable of lying ! View Quote Perhaps, perhaps not, I do not recall anything to that effect, but that does not nessessarily preclude it. Yes, the American media are real sweathearts and they quite often have bias or get the story completely wrong. Do I believe they purposely lie about things to ensure they come out as they see fit? Absolutely not. Somebody credible would have come forward. They are often incompetent and biased, but I do not buy that they do it on purpose. They had nothing to gain by this anyway. They obviously disagree with the Israelies most of the time. Anyone can lie. Hell, 'ol Yasser came out after Sept. 11 to say just how sorry he was about the whole thing and even gave blood. Does anyone really think he ment it? I'll have to see if I can find the archives of the old news stories and see what exactly what they say. Nevertheless, they were offering a hell of a lot more then they needed to and recieved a slap in the face for their efforts. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Please explain how the US shares the burden for crimes committed by the Soviets. View Quote US banking interests out of New York largly financed Lenins return to Russia. With plenty of cash!! View Quote Please provide documented proof. Even given same, "US banking interests" do not the US Gov't make. I do not deny that "US banking interests" have some influence on US gov't policy, but there are many other competing interests at work as well, some competing [i]against[/i] those of the "US banking interests". Why don't you put the blame on the Imperial German Gov't, which actually engineered the importation of Lenin into Russia? Using "logic" of this caliber, we ought to blame Great Britain for Communism itself, as Karl Marx sought refuge there, and wrote "Das Kapital" using the facilities of the British Library in London. This same brand of "logic" automatically blames the Gun, not the human controlling it. |
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The Civilized vs. the Savages.
The Civilized MUST win. (...and PLEASE don't any of you moral relativists out there, try to say it is the Israelis who are the Savages.) |
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US banking interests out of New York largly financed Lenins return to Russia. With plenty of cash!! View Quote Come on now, raf! Don't you recognize the language here? I'll help. "US banking interests out of New York" "Banking interest" + "New York" = Jews That's what he's trying to say. Duh. |
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