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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:05:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Yep. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:08:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Goldbrick!  How have you been feeling lately? |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:10:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Heck yeah!  They should have me repaired by next Spring or Summer.  (eta: Sorry for the hijack) |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:12:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Donations are already stretched very thin due to a plethora of causes and needs. Homelessness, hunger, disaster relief etc.... Health care is EXTREMELY expensive and donations alone could never support those that can't afford it. As for pedro, Mao, habib, jugdish and any other illegal, you get NOTHING unless you prove you're here legally. Maybe a trip home, but thats it. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:16:04 PM EDT
[#5]
+Eleventy Billion and two...besides he has Chuck to back him up! |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:17:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Tough one. I am against it but I also pray that none of you or a loved one gets so sick that you have to lose everything to pay for the medical costs. Good luck
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:19:25 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:20:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Do for thyself.
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:21:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Or die ? |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:23:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Who decided that everything is free if you don't have money?
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:25:05 PM EDT
[#11]
I keep saying it....
You're all nuts. I look at the poll numbers here and then read the comments. Almost all of you want some kind of exception. And that is why it IS coming. Because you will all go along with some of it and incrementally the gov't will take over healthcare. And when it happens you won't like it, guaranteed. They are already making huge moves in taking over the industry and it has not been for the best. Not even close. What the whole deal is about is class warfare. And the socialists play you all like a violin. They know just what buttons to push to get you all into lockstep like good little socialist worker ants. You'll stare at the boob tube and they will put on their little dog and pony show and you will shake your head up and down, while drool runs down your chin, say yeaahhhhhhh, that's how it should be.... Bottom line is that in my experience no one gets turned away and people who don't pay get free service. Hell it costs more a lot of the time and all of you are already paying for it. But that doesn't give the socialists more power so they convince the mental midgets of this country, thru the emotions of class warfare that a problem exists where none truly does. More power for the .gov and then all of you will whine about how much you hate big govt', gov't run amuck, etc, etc. And in the end it will cost everyone more and you will get less. Much less. The average intellect of docs will plummet because no one worth a fuck will want to get mixed up in it all but you dipshits won't even know the difference. I could go on for pages tearing almost every response here a new asshole but I have neither the time nor the inclination. You know what? You are all going to get exactly what you deserve. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:25:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Or die. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:28:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Your full of shit on one account. You couldnt tear my argument a new asshole even if you tried. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:28:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Declaring healthcare a "right" is tantamount to enslaving health care providers.
I am not a slave. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:31:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Bwahahahahah. Just wait.
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:37:23 PM EDT
[#16]
"I have mixed feelings on the issue. I dont think theres a truly right answer." Yeah, that's impressive. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:38:35 PM EDT
[#17]
No.
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:42:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Because whats the point? Until you've BEEn there, your just blowing that bullshit conservative smoke up my ass and its not even worth my time. When YOU'VE been in the position to have EVERYTHING your family has worked damned hard for because of 1 freak fucking accident, come talk to me. Until then, keep drinking that KoolAid that people need all this horseshit "personal responsiblity". Which is why I wont even bother. Ever hear the saying "Walk a mile"? Well, when your looking at a peice of paper and the "Total" column is more then you've ever made, more then you ever will make, more then your insurance covers,more then your house is worth and more then your business is worth, then maybe you'll have a leg to stand on. But until you've paid approx $50,000 for a LifeFlight, let alone all the other stuff.....All i see is somone blowing smoke up my ass. Personal responsiblity is good, and I'm all for it. But sometimes even with all the planning and level headedness you still end up in a very bad situation thats over your head. And in todays market, no one gives two fucks, so long as the bill is paid! |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:42:21 PM EDT
[#19]
If I want to pay for someones care personally, I would gladly do it. If I am forced to by the government to do it, that is called socialism and socialism doesnt work
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:45:04 PM EDT
[#20]
My absolute biggest problem is with a lot of theese people who can't afford healthcare have the money to pay insurance but choose not to get it for some extra dollars to waste away. And then something major happens and they get screwed. I see this happen all the time with other types of insurance too. I have no sympathy for those people. They have enough money to spend on highspeed internet and the newest computer parts and games and digital cable and all sorts of other luxuries but they can't pony up the money for insurance? Fuck'em, they gambled, they lost, fair and square.
Not to mention my other problems with government controlled anything. Look and see what hillary managed to do in screwing our vaccine market all to help the children(Vaccines for Children program). WE DID have a very healthy vaccine market at one time, Hillary did a GREAT job of destroying it. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:48:54 PM EDT
[#21]
I can't help but laugh when some libtard talks about the "poor problem" here.
Think about it: this is the only country where the "poor" have a car, a refrigerator, A/C, a colour TV, and a computer...... |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 7:56:06 PM EDT
[#22]
So you want to make another exception. I understand but let's call it what it is. Me? You have no idea. Oldest of 5 Dad died when I was 13 Marines at 17 so I could pay for college After college had a family, worked while living in a dive so my wife could stay home with the kids Used to get up at 4:30 AM so I could study for the MCATS while I worked Then med school,etc Granted, I may not have been through what you have been but my wife and I, family, have been thru plenty, much of which is not mentioned here(left out plenty). I am sure not your silver spoon type. I know what gov't run healthcare is, and will be. You wouldn't have liked the results, your results, anymore than any else is going to. You may hate the system for the expense but how would you be without it? And who do you think should pay for it? |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:02:03 PM EDT
[#23]
I think the amount of Healthcare that you are covered for with the government should be directly dependent upon how much in taxes you pay, the more you pay in taxes the more healthcare you get. If you a useless dreg on society that leeches instead of paying into the system, then you can set your own damned broken bones
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:07:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Why would anyone bother to pay for something that was free?
Just like the flood insurance that everyone in New Orleans didn't pay for which they're now getting payments from ... our tax dollars. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:08:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Is, and gonna be, just the opposite. People with money will pay for the Healthcare Ins as mandated and then pay out of pocket for decent service. I believe I have the answers but society would not buy it. As long as it is them milking the system while everyone else pays it is always going to be okay with them. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:08:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Terrible idea.
"Free" for someone else just means I'm paying for it. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:19:33 PM EDT
[#27]
So you mean to tell me the $750 a month I had to pay out of pocket (with my last company) wasn't paying for someone else? My family is young and very heathy, as a result, we rarely had to visit a doctor. $750 a month for little to no services? You still gonna tell me I wasn't paying for someone else? Perhaps we need a little lesson on insurance... |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:22:30 PM EDT
[#28]
I tend to be very conservative with my politics and my social outlook. I do, however, lean toward some sort of basic medical services for those who can't afford it.
At the rate insurance premiums are skyrocketing, the future person in need may just be you... |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:23:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Maybe you do. You take a policy where EVERYONE pays in. You all take the same risk. What we are talking about here is a whole different ballgame. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:26:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Being the kind person I am, if your truly sick and truly can not afford and not because you have a payment you need to pay on your escalade I wouldn't have a problem with it. But people are abusive and want free treatment for everything.
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:26:48 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:27:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Aren't we all missing the point here?
Isn't the real question: How do we reform/fix the healthcare system so that average AND less than average Americans can afford to insure themselves? This system is fucked up folks. I make very good money and before I found my current position (with a Blue Cross company), I was barely able to afford my insurance premiums. I really don't understand how those that make less coin can make it work. Fact is, either they go on health welfare, or they don't have insurance at all. How can we allow a system to perpetuate that only accommodates the wealthy? |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:30:01 PM EDT
[#33]
No.
But for how much we pay in taxes, we sure as hell should have it free for legal citizens. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:31:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Well, there ya go, class warfare at the root of socialism and communism. I'm done here guys. I agree, this is going to happen. When it does you will all be here bitching about it. Later. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:34:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Perhaps you've hit on just the right idea. Instead of a social program that gives to all, why not create a national insurance policy that everyone can qualify for, spreads risk across a much broader population and lowers rates. Dont get me wrong, I'm not in favor of welfare. I am in favor, however, of giving everyone equal opportunity to buy into affordable health insurance. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:40:34 PM EDT
[#36]
So, is the alternative attitude: "I got mine, so screw everyone else?" In this particular case, I don't think we're just talking about lazy, non-motiviated minorities. Fact is, some people are paying almost as much for health insurance as they pay for their mortgage. That's a powder keg waiting to explode... |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 8:50:59 PM EDT
[#37]
I think any person contributing to society (read person with a legitimate job OR legitimate volunteering) should have access to necessary healthcare. I also think that the government should not be responsible for your Viagra, Vicatin, Claritin, or acne medication. They are not necessites.
If you want pimple medication, sleeping pills, or any of that crap that everyone seems to NEED today, then you better get a job that pays for it or pay for it yourself. Or move to Canada. As a side note, this will never happen so long as people keep getting millions of dollars because doctors are only human and cannot predict the future nor guarantee that they are infallible. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 9:17:25 PM EDT
[#38]
We already have free health care for anyone who wants it, even non-citizens can get it.
Haven't you heard of the Emergency Room, or the County Hospital in your area. Nobody pays one red cent for any of the care they get. They feel lucky if they can get you signed up for Medicaid, or some other program so they can get some of their money back. The rest of us with health insurance are paying for those who don't have it. If health insurance was like car insurance, it would cost about as much. Every time I have a wreck, or my car gets stolen, or whatever, I have a $500 deductible to pay. I don't get free visits to the mechanic, a $10 copay when I need to have something fixed, or free filters and lubricants no matter how much I want to use. The entire health insurance system is set up wrong and until it gets fixed, we will all continue to pay way to much for a system that is broken. What good is a $10 copay and $10 prescription card if I have to pay $1,100 a month just to have the damn insurance for my family? |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 10:10:25 PM EDT
[#39]
The first reform of the healthcare system should be to do away with the mafia tactics insurance companies use on healthcare providers. A doctor/hospital/lab cannot get a contract without being forced to "give" a discount and have many procedures "written off." The end result is they are underpaid for services by companies like Blue Cross and have to make it up elsewhere or just take the financial hit. The Federal Register sets what the rate for each medical procedure in each area of the country should be paid. Simply make those rates THE LAW, with no discounts for any company. If Blue Cross paid $60 for a $60 procedure instead of $35, more money would go back into the medical system instead of being drained out by the middlemen. Quality of care would improve and more people would go into the medical field intead of run from it like is happening now. New hospitals would open instead of closing down. My second idea is the State (all 50 of them) be required by law to reimburse hospitals for uninsured people at the full rate. If an illegal or welfare patient walks in and has a baby the State should pay for it in full, not the hospital with forced (by law) charity. Only when the individual states start footing the bill for illegals will they go after and deport them. As it is they get a free ride off of hospitals and that's why so many have gone backrupt in border states. This should also be tied directly into the welfare budget so if medical payments rise, monthly welfare checks get docked the difference. One of the reasons costs are so high for medical office/hospital visits is several visits are underpaid or written off completely for each one that gets paid. All these forced freebees are killing the medical profession. I know nurses who make $12 an hour. Does that sound fair? |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 10:18:34 PM EDT
[#40]
I shall preface this by saying that I havent read the thread.
That said™, while I think that everyone should be responsible for themself, charitys should help those in true need, while the hospitals are forced to work out a payment plan for those who cannot afford the $9000 bill they just got for little Jimmy's appendectomy. Hell, have the goverment give the same tax breaks for donating to medical bills that they do to charities. Why not? 
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Posted: 12/14/2005 10:25:06 PM EDT
[#41]
I just want to say it is never "free" It is just a matter of who pays for it. I had no coverage for 2/3rds of my life, and now I pay 1 new folding stock AK per month for it. I don't wish to pay for anyone elses.
The cost needs to come down, and socialised medicine is not going to do that. |
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Posted: 12/14/2005 10:45:11 PM EDT
[#42]
+P+ This is the heart of it. However, insurance IS the problem. People seek more health care when it's "covered" and they don't care what it costs. Giving more people coverage is not the answer, but sadly I do not know what is. One thing is certain though: Costs for healthcare are far out of line with income and getting worse. Dr's have been very successful in keeping their supply low, and prices high. If more graduated, Maybe they wouldn't charge $20 per minute. If they were paid less, quality would not suffer. If fact the inverse is probably true. People who have a true calling toward healthcare would still do it, while the people who are only in it for the payday would become lawyers. <Ducking for cover>
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Posted: 12/14/2005 10:47:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Well I pay taxes to pay for the welfare crowd to get care, but if I get sick Im screwed, when I thought I was gonna get bad off I pulled all my money just incase so I wouldnt have anything.
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Posted: 12/15/2005 2:37:28 AM EDT
[#44]
They already do. You can count off your medical expenses if they total at least 7.5 percent of your adjusted gross income (AGI). Unfortunately I've gotten to count-off my wife's medical bills the past four years running.z |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 2:48:08 AM EDT
[#45]
I haven't had health care for over a year now. I'm in a job now that I should get health benefits in about 90 days.
I left my last job because they kept me as a full time temp--meaning I worked 40+ hours a week at a crappy pay rate with no benefits. I was also doing some high level stuff as a full time temp that guys that made $2-4 more than I did were doing. All of it combined got me looking for a new job. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 2:52:21 AM EDT
[#46]
Healthcare is FREE for anyone that cannot afford it now. Do you really think they pay for it when they walk out of the emergency room or give a fake address and ssan to the billing department? Those of us with healthcare pay for those who don't have it.
Free to them, means redistributed to us. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 4:21:34 AM EDT
[#47]
God I remember those days., not fondly either. Lived in the ghetto, worked full time night and went to college full time. Worst semester was 16 credit hours, full time job and a newborn baby.  I hated that. I really really did. Go to work at 10 at night, get off at 6 in the morning, go to classes, go home and try to get a few hours sleep so I could get up in the late afternoon and go back to classes, go home and eat then go to work. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 4:33:20 AM EDT
[#48]
Why should it be free for those that can't afford it, but the people that can just afford it would have to pay? Go free for all or pay for all, I say pay for all! I already work hard enough to pay for the wellfare of 10 familys that I dont know and should not be here and are to lazy to "afford" to work but then they should get free HC to because they cant take some for their free wellfare money to "afford" their own HC! As far as the people that need help with HC such as kids with cancer, well there are many non-profit places set up to cover some of those costs and many people give money to them. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 4:38:11 AM EDT
[#49]
Medical care never has been and never can be "free" as in without cost. Somebody somewhere has to pay. The question is who is going to pay. Most should take the personal responsibility to pay their own way. There are some, however, who can't. Those people should be helped in some way. It should not become an entitlement of cradle to grave medical care completely free of cost to them permanently at someone else's expense, but those in genuine need of help ought to receive it. |
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Posted: 12/15/2005 4:43:40 AM EDT
[#50]
And, has been pointed out a couple of times already, there have historically always BEEN "free" clinics where young doctors can voluteer their time in exchange for work experience prior to setting up a practice. At least there were until the lawyers got ahold of them and started filing malpractice suites to enrich themselves and the lives of their formerly indigent clients. Now, a "free" clinic probably costs more to run than a "for profit" clinic ever could.  |
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