How do German citizens treat their WW2 veterans? - Page 2

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Posted: 11/1/2009 1:18:26 PM EDT

[#1]

My experience was that Germans generally don't like to talk about it. There were exceptions. The most memorable was a neighbor who showed me his WWII papers (stamped "Jude") and pulled up his sleeve to show a tattooed number on his arm from the concentration camp. I was pretty blown away.

Posted: 11/1/2009 1:20:21 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Interesting question.

In the case of the SS officer I'd have hoped they would do the world a favor and lynched him, other than that conscripts I mean they were forced into the army but the actions of the SS are unforgivable.

Lame. Do yourself a favor and actually learn some history.

+1

All to easy to fall for the smooth talking, charismatic LEADER to come in during a time of crisis, promising equality, hope and change.

Think about it. If you give it serious thought you should be afraid.

I'm pretty sure if Obama came out and said let's round up all the ___________ (insert race) and kill 'em I don't think we'd say fuck yeah and create the worlds largest and most efficient means of genocide ever witnessed then pretend like no one knew about it,.

Posted: 11/1/2009 1:21:06 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
All the old timer Germans I ever talked to in the 2 years I lived over there, claimed to have fought the Russians. None a single one would ever admit fighting Americans.

Aviator

Well if you look at the numbers, the war in Europe was pretty much Germany vs. the Soviets. Everything else was a minor distraction.

Posted: 11/1/2009 1:21:56 PM EDT

[#4]

The local University here had a German who is now an American citizen and was a small child during WWII who was forced to join the Hitler Youth. It was not an option and he was a VERY young child.

The University recently allowed him to decorate his dinning hall for Octoberfest. He put up a flag with the Iron Cross that has nothing to do with NAZIs, but some idiot black guy working in the dinning hall filed a complaint saying he was offended by it. The University had a full blown investigator with their "diversity office" and treated this guy like he was Adolph Hitler and was rounding up Jews or something at like 7 years old.

I couldn't believe it when my Fiance told me about it and reminded her that the Iron Cross can be found all over Germany today where NAZI symbols are illegal. The Iron Cross is on German Vehicles and Ships. It has nothing to do with NAZIs, but man were they looking to burn this German for displaying it during Octoberfest.

I felt so horrified and sorry for this guy that he had to be put through a full investigation and harsh criticism for horrible acts he was never a part of simple because he was born German and speaks with an accent.

There is no end to how long people will make Germany as a whole suffer for WWII. That nation has been split in half and brow beaten to death enough. Soon every WWII vet will be dead and I promise you they'll still have to suffer for WWII by paying out money to Israel and having every German associated with NAZIs by uneducated morons for the rest of time.

Posted: 11/1/2009 1:22:40 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All of my German family immigrated before either World War, but we still have distant cousins over there. No idea what any of them did in the war.

I had a great-great-uncle named Adolf who served in the US Navy in the Pacific. I bet he took a lot of shit from his buddies.

Japanese submarines sank three ships under him, but his fourth ship saw him through to the end of the war. He hated the Japanese and developed a phobia about lighting more than one cigarette off of a match; all three ships got sank at night, and he blamed it on people lighting multiple cigarettes off of a match (leaving a visible light burning for several seconds that a Japanese submarine could see from a distance at night.). I have no idea how accurate his irrational fear was as far as the blame for his ships getting hit, but until the day he died, if you lit a cigarette around him you used your own match, took as little time as possible, and hid the flame with your hands or he freaked out.

Meanwhile, my grandfather was dating a Japanese girl and spent his part of the war in Germany as part of the 1945 occupation force (he arrived right after the surrender) and spent most of his time there either hunting deer with his M1 Carbine (with locals as guides) or preventing some French soldiers from abusing German POW's. He said the Frenchies liked to beat them and starve them, which he thought wasn't right because 1) the Germans had treated them far better than they were treating the Germans, and 2) half the French had been fighting FOR the Germans.

Well whatta ya know, I had a great-grandfather named Adolph, and he was Bavarian

The infamous Adolf was Austrian.

Yah, but not a good name or a good place to be from for an American fighting during WWII

I agree.

Posted: 11/1/2009 1:28:58 PM EDT

[#6]

I dont have ill will to an individual solider, even with having some of my family who died at the hands of Hitler in his death camps (not jewish btw)..

The average soilder who did not murder or commit crimes against other people should feel honorable,as they served their country when called upon, and not all soldiers knew of the death camps.. Its a shame that some do feel that way about those average soilders as they have a story to tell, but wont ever say anything about due to fear of being labeled a bad person..They will take the history to their graves.

Posted: 11/1/2009 1:29:53 PM EDT

[#7]

The Waffen SS were involved on numerous occasions in rounding up Jews and rampantly executing civilians. You can find numerous evidence in testimonies, books and the internet.

Posted: 11/1/2009 1:32:34 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Allegemeine SS and Einzatgruppen, no love for them..............evil to the core, but Waffen SS werent the same.......because they carry the SS moniker, they get lumped into the same group.

Waffen SS like SS-Hauptsturmführer Michael Wittman were a different kind of soldier, and not the killers that manned concentration camps

Talk about a man who grasped armored warfare, superb tank commander by any standards.

I might even consider that an understatement.

Posted: 11/1/2009 1:34:14 PM EDT

[#9]

How many times did the German army leadership plot to kill Hitler?

Posted: 11/1/2009 1:38:18 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Interesting question.

In the case of the SS officer I'd have hoped they would do the world a favor and lynched him, other than that conscripts I mean they were forced into the army but the actions of the SS are unforgivable.

Lame. Do yourself a favor and actually learn some history.

+1

All to easy to fall for the smooth talking, charismatic LEADER to come in during a time of crisis, promising equality, hope and change.

Think about it. If you give it serious thought you should be afraid.

I'm pretty sure if Obama came out and said let's round up all the ___________ (insert race) and kill 'em I don't think we'd say fuck yeah and create the worlds largest and most efficient means of genocide ever witnessed then pretend like no one knew about it,.

Do you think Hitler did it that way? No, he started a systematic program of class-hatred with gradually increasing levels of popularly supported "sanctions" and persecution before the final step of "deporting" the undesirables...

Do you think the libtards would shed any tears if they rounded up gun owners or militia sympathizers and put them in cattlecars? They had a fucking orgasm in NOLA after Katrina siccing their JBTs on gun owners, or did you forget about that?

Posted: 11/1/2009 1:41:00 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Interesting question.

In the case of the SS officer I'd have hoped they would do the world a favor and lynched him, other than that conscripts I mean they were forced into the army but the actions of the SS are unforgivable.

Lame. Do yourself a favor and actually learn some history.

Posted: 11/1/2009 1:41:27 PM EDT

[#12]

I know of one documented case in WWII where American pilots were being held illegally in Buchenwald. They were saved by a Luftwaffe officer, who they passed a note to, at great risk of their lives.

Posted: 11/1/2009 1:52:22 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I know of one documented case in WWII where American pilots were being held illegally in Buchenwald. They were saved by a Luftwaffe officer, who they passed a note to, at great risk of their lives.

Like I said airmen soldiers and sailors were like our own

The SS and camp guards not so much

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:01:09 AM EDT

[#14]

I have learned that the Kriegsmarine were extremely anti-Nazi in some units/ships, and that they and the Luftwaffe were capable of amazing acts of chivalry and compassion for thier enemies, to the extent of disobeying orders to save and protect prisoners, the vanquished and wounded.

The Whermacht is also included in this, but to a lesser extene, due to the psychological impact of ground combat.

I have nothing but contempt for the Soviets. Thier conduct was nothing short of murderous and vile. I distrust the Russians to this day.

I believe that quarter should be given to surrendering troops not only because it is right, but it has a major impact on how they treat your prisoners as well. The current conflict w/ terrorists trash notwithstanding.

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:05:50 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
...My question is, how does the average German today view their veterans who fought in WW2?

Mostly as deceased.

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:11:07 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
I used to do WWII re-enactments. One event was at the dedication of a POW museum in Aliceville Alabama. There were about a dozen former POW's (Afrika Korps) that came to the dedication. During the war they were accepted by the community. Cut grass, cleaned gutters etc. The residents would bring the lemonade.

They were very interesting to talk to. They were proud of their service under Rommel but ashamed of the government.

I had an older guy show me some very old stumps on a piece of property his family owned for many years in central GA. He pointed at them and said "German POW's cut those down during WW2." This was about 10 years ago.

I thought he was on drugs or something till I researched it.

He said they didn't try to escape––where would they go? He also said they were pretty well accepted by the community and practically adopted by some families in some cases till the war was over.

GR

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:13:47 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
All the old timer Germans I ever talked to in the 2 years I lived over there, claimed to have fought the Russians. None a single one would ever admit fighting Americans.

Aviator

Or killing Jews, I imagine.

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:15:02 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
My dad, uncle, and grandfather are German WW2 veterans.

There is a very simple answer: Germans generally don't talk about it. Remember that they lost the war, and that automatically makes it a taboo subject, much how many Americans felt after Vietnam - but much worse of course.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I figured this was the case. The Germans are a very proud people.

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:15:25 AM EDT

[#19]

I had a German friend whose grandfather was a party member and apparently still a believer (still hated Jews and the like).

They were ashamed of him and tried to ignore him as best they could

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:22:27 AM EDT

[#20]

They should not feel bad for following orders.
Heck, I think some of our (US) orders (aka laws) are beyond illegal.

Those in charge though, that is different.

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:25:55 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
I'm comfortable with those SS guys feeling they were in the right.
I'm also comfortable with the Israelis hunting their piece-of-shit asses down and killing them.

Not familiar with Lehi (Stern Gang), Irgun and Haganah, huh?

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:30:22 AM EDT

[#22]

I just had a great uncle die. While he was too young to serve in the Wehrmacht, but did serve in a youth organization.

He had American shrapnel in his back that he showed me. It came from an American bomb. Someplace I have a picture of the home and it's weird because you can see exactly what was newly constructed and what was pre-WW2.

There was nothing on his memorial card stating anything about his work during the war. I don't think he was ashamed or overly proud of his service to his country.

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:39:43 AM EDT

[#23]

They elect them to be the Pope

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:49:20 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Interesting question.

In the case of the SS officer I'd have hoped they would do the world a favor and lynched him, other than that conscripts I mean they were forced into the army but the actions of the SS are unforgivable.

Lame. Do yourself a favor and actually learn some history.

+1

All to easy to fall for the smooth talking, charismatic LEADER to come in during a time of crisis, promising equality, hope and change.

Think about it. If you give it serious thought you should be afraid.

I'm pretty sure if Obama came out and said let's round up all the ___________ (insert race) and kill 'em I don't think we'd say fuck yeah and create the worlds largest and most efficient means of genocide ever witnessed then pretend like no one knew about it,.

Until that blank is filled with right wing terrorists.

Then the sheep can get on board

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:52:28 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Interesting question.

In the case of the SS officer I'd have hoped they would do the world a favor and lynched him, other than that conscripts I mean they were forced into the army but the actions of the SS are unforgivable.

Lame. Do yourself a favor and actually learn some history.

+1

All to easy to fall for the smooth talking, charismatic LEADER to come in during a time of crisis, promising equality, hope and change.

Think about it. If you give it serious thought you should be afraid.

I'm pretty sure if Obama came out and said let's round up all the ___________ (insert race) and kill 'em I don't think we'd say fuck yeah and create the worlds largest and most efficient means of genocide ever witnessed then pretend like no one knew about it,.

Until that blank is filled with right wing terrorists.

Then the sheep can get on board

It would be more like let's start to push an agenda, then demonize everyone who opposed it.

Posted: 11/2/2009 6:01:52 AM EDT

[#26]

I spent 8 years there, found my first wife there as well.

All of my friends were German, and the only time I spoke English is when I went on duty.

Anyways...

As a whole, they are none too proud. A lot of the older folks who were alive during that period were bitter over the beatdown and division by the Soviets. I understand their point of view completely.
I do NOT concur with the deathcamps, though. That was fucking lunacy. If you don't want them in your country, show them the fucking border. The end.

As an aside... my best friend and I went on a trip through Bavaria, and met a one armed waiter. Seriously. He spoke passable English and seeing that we were Americans, asked where we were from. We told him the general area, and he said "you know, the first American I ever saw shot my arm off in Munster bei Dieburg". Out of the dozen bases, or kasernes in the immediate area, that is the EXACT one we were stationed at. He told us all about the munition tunnels and railhead which were still there. Very cool. We drank a lot for free with him that night.

He was just an 18 yr old kid helping to load munition trains... he had no idea of the scope of evil being done in his county's name. His country doesn't recognize him for anything at all...never have, never will.

Posted: 11/2/2009 6:03:29 AM EDT

[#27]

If anyone else ever reads "The Good Ole Days", you get a pretty good picture of those that did the exterminating. From the beginning of it, when they literally beat jews to death with sticks in a public fashion to when the "progressed" to gassing. The soldiers in charge of the executions had a say in it. If they refused, they were simply put in another unit (usually on the frontlines). But basically, they knew there were plenty that didn't think exterminating a race was the right thing to do within their ranks. So those still around it either didn't have the cajones to step up and say "no thanks" because they'd rather kill innocents than go fight on the front or felt strongly enough about getting rid of jews to stick around and kill them. Either way they should still be put to death to this day (those that are alive...).

Now...the normal soldiers, I would love talking to them and they should be praised. In the "West" of the country they are more than the "East". The east having such a large russian influence (I married an east german ;)). According to them, German army was evil and the russians liberated them from this evil. It's fun going over history with my wife..."Berlin airlift, what's that?" lol...

Posted: 11/2/2009 6:18:00 AM EDT

[#28]

While I haven't talked to rank and file Germans about vets, I have talked to several vets.

Normally they don't talk much about the war, but when you do get them talking, it is chilling. The Germans were (and the old guys still are) brainwashed about the Jews.

Are there any other German reenactors here that have talked to German vets?

It is weird, wearing the uniform while you are talking to them opens them up. As I said, chilling.

Posted: 11/2/2009 6:35:18 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I bet it is a case of they support and are proud of the soldiers but would stab the leadership in the eye with an unsharpened pencil if they could.

Correct-answer

The Honda m/c dealer I worked at had a contract with a travel agent in Germany that would fly customers over to pick up new US Gold Wing's to ride around on 'holiday'.

A group was here on the 50th anniversery of WWII ending, and were concerned they might not be welcome by some older US veterans. We told them not to worry, too much time has passed to have any serious bad feelings towards them. When they returned after their road trip, they were very surprised how well they were treated by the vet's they met. The old guy's were more interested in what the German's fathers did during the war and swapping stories.

I did ask them what most young Germans thought about the war, and everyone of them said they were proud of their soldiers service, but that Hitler and his henchmen were a bunch of assholes.

Most WWII veterans I know feel either indifferent toward the Germans or respect them; absolute hatred is reserved exclusively for Hitler and his cronies, like the Gestapo. I've seen a lot more outright hatred of the Japanese by WWII veterans (even ones who never fought them) than the Germans.

This. My Grandfather had alot of hate for the Japanese, he was on Boganville and in the Phillippines as an Infantrymen.

I think the Japs and the Nazi's were on the same level...........perhaps the Japs slightly elevated in their dedication to attrocities. Anyone here ever hear about UNIT 731? Here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

Posted: 11/2/2009 6:49:55 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

While I haven't talked to rank and file Germans about vets, I have talked to several vets.

Normally they don't talk much about the war, but when you do get them talking, it is chilling. The Germans were (and the old guys still are) brainwashed about the Jews.

Are there any other German reenactors here that have talked to German vets?

It is weird, wearing the uniform while you are talking to them opens them up. As I said, chilling.

You could talk to reenactors, but I have already told you what the deal is based on my own dad, uncle, and grandfather and having been born a German citizen and living there.

Posted: 11/2/2009 6:59:58 AM EDT

[#31]

I lived on the german economy for a couple years, my next door neighbor was a pilot that had been shot down over britain and lost an eye. He had no hard feelings over the war and had no problems talking to us about it.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:04:07 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I know the German people are very proud of the type portrayed in the movie Valkerie, the ones who tried to stop Hitler. A lot of Germans, especially younger ones seem to have a real self loathing.

Funny how the German soldiers are looked down on while the Soviets and Japanese get a free pass. The atrocities performed by those two countries are nearly equal to the Nazi's. Especially how the Japanese treated us compared to the Germans. The Japanese cannibalised some of our downed airmen, performed medical experiments on our troops and the Chinese, raped women and children in China and the Philipines, fed drug laced candy to children, the Bataan Death March, burned our pow's alive, and have never been made to live up to this like the German people.

The Red Army raped 10's of thousands to as many as 2 million German women and children with some being as young as 8 years old, They then murdered over 270,000 German civilians that had surrendered. Over 320,000 Polish prisoners of war captured by the Red Army in 1939 were murdered. Many thousands of women were raped in occupied countries by the Soviets including Hungary and Poland. And the Soviets are seen as heroes.

In my experience, our vets have far more hatred for the "japs" than for the Germans.

As for the atrocities done by the Soviets to the Germans, well, the Germans weren't exactly any different when they marched to Moscow. Lots of long term hatred going both ways.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:05:07 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
While I haven't talked to rank and file Germans about vets, I have talked to several vets.

Normally they don't talk much about the war, but when you do get them talking, it is chilling. The Germans were (and the old guys still are) brainwashed about the Jews.

Are there any other German reenactors here that have talked to German vets?

It is weird, wearing the uniform while you are talking to them opens them up. As I said, chilling.

You could talk to reenactors, but I have already told you what the deal is based on my own dad, uncle, and grandfather and having been born a German citizen and living there.

I don't remember. Can you refresh? Here or by IM.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:14:33 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
While I haven't talked to rank and file Germans about vets, I have talked to several vets.

Normally they don't talk much about the war, but when you do get them talking, it is chilling. The Germans were (and the old guys still are) brainwashed about the Jews.

Are there any other German reenactors here that have talked to German vets?

It is weird, wearing the uniform while you are talking to them opens them up. As I said, chilling.

Had the chance to speak to a few German Vets from WWII at events, one from North Africa, one from the Atlantic Wall, and one from somewhere East, dont remember where but he fought with the Gerbisjaegers and seeing as that was my unit, he was the easiest to talk to.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:17:40 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
While I haven't talked to rank and file Germans about vets, I have talked to several vets.

Normally they don't talk much about the war, but when you do get them talking, it is chilling. The Germans were (and the old guys still are) brainwashed about the Jews.

Are there any other German reenactors here that have talked to German vets?

It is weird, wearing the uniform while you are talking to them opens them up. As I said, chilling.

Had the chance to speak to a few German Vets from WWII at events, one from North Africa, one from the Atlantic Wall, and one from somewhere East, dont remember where but he fought with the Gerbisjaegers and seeing as that was my unit, he was the easiest to talk to.

TMHS?

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:20:24 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

I don't remember. Can you refresh? Here or by IM.

It's fairly straightforward:

My dad, uncle, and grandfather are German WW2 veterans.

There is a very simple answer: Germans generally don't talk about
it. Remember that they lost the war, and that automatically makes it a
taboo subject, much how many Americans felt after Vietnam - but much
worse of course.

To expand on it a little bit: Towards the end of the war as things were nearing the end and the prospect of victory was crushed, most soldiers realized that they had fought for a terrible cause. Once the war is over, you don't end up showing much pride since you supported a war of aggression led by a mass murderer.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:21:34 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
While I haven't talked to rank and file Germans about vets, I have talked to several vets.

Normally they don't talk much about the war, but when you do get them talking, it is chilling. The Germans were (and the old guys still are) brainwashed about the Jews.

Are there any other German reenactors here that have talked to German vets?

It is weird, wearing the uniform while you are talking to them opens them up. As I said, chilling.

Had the chance to speak to a few German Vets from WWII at events, one from North Africa, one from the Atlantic Wall, and one from somewhere East, dont remember where but he fought with the Gerbisjaegers and seeing as that was my unit, he was the easiest to talk to.

TMHS?

Come again?

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:22:40 AM EDT

[#38]

My grandfather and two great uncles were in the war. Grandfather was a mountaineer his brother was regular infantry, and the other great uncle from my aunts husbands side is never really talked about. The only reason that I knew that he was in the war was because they had a war portrait of him in his uniform with the SS tabs in my aunts house. Never much talked about him.

Grandfather and uncle lived through the war and actually both fought the Americans. Grandfather was wounded in the back of his leg and does have 1 or 2 stories about how he thought he was pretty much dead and how he had no idea how he survived. Also a few stories about how they fought the Americans and years later feels bad for those young guys he helped put an end to.

Besides that, they don't talk about it much. As it was said before, the German's lost and had to endure the reprocussions of the war until the 80s/90s and are sick of their government being overly apologetic. There are war memorials in small towns that honor their war dead, as well as in churches in the larger cities such as Ulm, where they have shields with the WW1 and WW2 war dead that were from that area in the Ulmer Munster (large steeple church). But there are no real 'memorial' days as there SHOULD be, as 99% of the men enlisted in the German military had NOTHING to do with the concentration camps or any of that bullshit. This is the sad part; they are forgotten and at times almost criminialized because of what so few did.

The older generations understand this. The younger, more liberal/socialist generation does not. This is almost exactly as how Vietnam is perceived today.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:26:46 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
The local University here had a German who is now an American citizen and was a small child during WWII who was forced to join the Hitler Youth. It was not an option and he was a VERY young child.

The University recently allowed him to decorate his dinning hall for Octoberfest. He put up a flag with the Iron Cross that has nothing to do with NAZIs, but some idiot black guy working in the dinning hall filed a complaint saying he was offended by it. The University had a full blown investigator with their "diversity office" and treated this guy like he was Adolph Hitler and was rounding up Jews or something at like 7 years old.

I couldn't believe it when my Fiance told me about it and reminded her that the Iron Cross can be found all over Germany today where NAZI symbols are illegal. The Iron Cross is on German Vehicles and Ships. It has nothing to do with NAZIs, but man were they looking to burn this German for displaying it during Octoberfest.

I felt so horrified and sorry for this guy that he had to be put through a full investigation and harsh criticism for horrible acts he was never a part of simple because he was born German and speaks with an accent.

There is no end to how long people will make Germany as a whole suffer for WWII. That nation has been split in half and brow beaten to death enough. Soon every WWII vet will be dead and I promise you they'll still have to suffer for WWII by paying out money to Israel and having every German associated with NAZIs by uneducated morons for the rest of time.

Well then that retard, and that university, would be totally offended by the German military to date. We still have the Iron Cross on all of our vehicles, planes, tanks...everything. It is the symbol of the German military.

When I was enlisted, alot of us got the iron cross as a tattoo....guess we're all nazi's now...

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:29:24 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I bet it is a case of they support and are proud of the soldiers but would stab the leadership in the eye with an unsharpened pencil if they could.

Correct-answer
The Honda m/c dealer I worked at had a contract with a travel agent in Germany that would fly customers over to pick up new US Gold Wing's to ride around on 'holiday'.
A group was here on the 50th anniversery of WWII ending, and were concerned they might not be welcome by some older US veterans. We told them not to worry, too much time has passed to have any serious bad feelings towards them. When they returned after their road trip, they were very surprised how well they were treated by the vet's they met. The old guy's were more interested in what the German's fathers did during the war and swapping stories.

I did ask them what most young Germans thought about the war, and everyone of them said they were proud of their soldiers service, but that Hitler and his henchmen were a bunch of assholes.

Most WWII veterans I know feel either indifferent toward the Germans or respect them; absolute hatred is reserved exclusively for Hitler and his cronies, like the Gestapo. I've seen a lot more outright hatred of the Japanese by WWII veterans (even ones who never fought them) than the Germans.

My grandma, who's father was crippled in WWII after being shot in the knee, still dislikes buying japanese stuff. It took her years to warm up to the Honda my grandpa replaced his Cadillac with.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:29:38 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
While I haven't talked to rank and file Germans about vets, I have talked to several vets.

Normally they don't talk much about the war, but when you do get them talking, it is chilling. The Germans were (and the old guys still are) brainwashed about the Jews.

Are there any other German reenactors here that have talked to German vets?

It is weird, wearing the uniform while you are talking to them opens them up. As I said, chilling.

Had the chance to speak to a few German Vets from WWII at events, one from North Africa, one from the Atlantic Wall, and one from somewhere East, dont remember where but he fought with the Gerbisjaegers and seeing as that was my unit, he was the easiest to talk to.

TMHS?

Come again?

Did you go to any Texas Military Historical Society (TMHS) events? I'm guessing not.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:30:26 AM EDT

[#42]

I read the Unit 731 page and it just, I don't know, I really can't feel anything reading it because its so hard to believe people could willingly do that to other people. How? Why? I'd like to think it never happened and yet people have to endure it and feel the pain :/ Still though while not comparable to THAT, its the same way American soldiers right now are doing some things that they shouldn't. Its a shame all of it. Its either sick twisted people or just guys thinking they're fighting for the right thing, only problem is the "good guys" usually end up fighting each other when they themselves have no reason to kill one another.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:30:42 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Interesting question.

In the case of the SS officer I'd have hoped they would do the world a favor and lynched him, other than that conscripts I mean they were forced into the army but the actions of the SS are unforgivable.

Depends on what SS we're talking about. The Waffen SS was just basically Germany's version of the Foreign Legion, and their only job was to fight battles like the rest of the German army, they didn't do any of the rounding up and executing of jews that the other factions of SS did.

Joachim Piper and the Americans massacred at Malmedy would take issue w/ your thoughts on this.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:33:22 AM EDT

[#44]

Not to derail this thread, but there used to be an old man who lived down the street from my grandparents. He was a supply sergeant during the war. He had great respect for the German army, said they were superb soldiers.

About the Hitler Youth mentioned earlier––like another post stated, they were fanatical. The old vet told me they usually had to kill the Hitler Youth they ran across because they didn't know when to surrender.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:33:40 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
My grandfather and two great uncles were in the war. Grandfather was a mountaineer his brother was regular infantry, and the other great uncle from my aunts husbands side is never really talked about. The only reason that I knew that he was in the war was because they had a war portrait of him in his uniform with the SS tabs in my aunts house. Never much talked about him.

Grandfather and uncle lived through the war and actually both fought the Americans. Grandfather was wounded in the back of his leg and does have 1 or 2 stories about how he thought he was pretty much dead and how he had no idea how he survived. Also a few stories about how they fought the Americans and years later feels bad for those young guys he helped put an end to.

Besides that, they don't talk about it much. As it was said before, the German's lost and had to endure the reprocussions of the war until the 80s/90s and are sick of their government being overly apologetic. There are war memorials in small towns that honor their war dead, as well as in churches in the larger cities such as Ulm, where they have shields with the WW1 and WW2 war dead that were from that area in the Ulmer Munster (large steeple church). But there are no real 'memorial' days as there SHOULD be, as 99% of the men enlisted in the German military had NOTHING to do with the concentration camps or any of that bullshit. This is the sad part; they are forgotten and at times almost criminialized because of what so few did.

The older generations understand this. The younger, more liberal/socialist generation does not. This is almost exactly as how Vietnam is perceived today.

While I don't have a problem with local small war memorials honoring local troops or units, I do NOT think they should have a WWII memorial day or national memorial for the military. Regardless of how you shake it, they were the bad guys. Doesn't mean every single one was bad, but if you have a NATIONAL memorial you honor ALL the troops. That is not good.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:33:53 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

<snip> But there are no real 'memorial' days as there SHOULD be, as 99% of the
men enlisted in the German military had NOTHING to do with the
concentration camps or any of that bullshit. This is the sad part; they
are forgotten and at times almost criminialized because of what so few
did.

Yeah, 99% of the occupational forces throughout Europe for instance were just a bunch of stand-up guys.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:33:53 AM EDT

[#47]

Several buildings at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Brunswick, GA were built by German POWs. Back then, the center was a Navy Blimp Air Base.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:34:35 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
While I haven't talked to rank and file Germans about vets, I have talked to several vets.

Normally they don't talk much about the war, but when you do get them talking, it is chilling. The Germans were (and the old guys still are) brainwashed about the Jews.

Are there any other German reenactors here that have talked to German vets?

It is weird, wearing the uniform while you are talking to them opens them up. As I said, chilling.

Had the chance to speak to a few German Vets from WWII at events, one from North Africa, one from the Atlantic Wall, and one from somewhere East, dont remember where but he fought with the Gerbisjaegers and seeing as that was my unit, he was the easiest to talk to.

TMHS?

Come again?

Did you go to any Texas Military Historical Society (TMHS) events? I'm guessing not.

Name sounds familiar, but to be honest I couldnt tell you. Worked alot with the Texas Military Vehicle Preservation society, or something to that effect

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:48:25 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Some of you guys really need to brush up on your history.

Allegemeine SS and Einzatgruppen were only a very small minority, maybe less than 1% of all Germans who fought in WWII.

The average German soldier, sailor, or airman in WWII was very much the same as his opposite number in the US or British military. Just a scared kid trying to make it home in one piece.

You can thank the average German soldier that the WHOLE of Europe did not fall to Red Army.

My Grandfather was in the Royal Navy during WWII, and he was captured during the fall of Crete, he spent the rest of the war as a POW. One day they gathered the men and told them they were going to help build a railway or road. My grandfather and a friend of his refused to help build it as they both had brothers fighting in the war, and this would be helping the German war effort. An SS officer came over and put them both on their knees, and shot my grandfather's friend in the head, then put a pistol to my grandfather's head. At that point a German officer came over enraged and stopped him citing the Geneva Convention, and saved my grandfather's life. My grandfather never had a problem with the Germans as he told me "they were just doing their job like me." Naturally he hated the SS.

I'm glad that your grandfather was saved by that German officer.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:52:16 AM EDT

[#50]

[/quote]

Most WWII veterans I know feel either indifferent toward the Germans or respect them; absolute hatred is reserved exclusively for Hitler and his cronies, like the Gestapo. I've seen a lot more outright hatred of the Japanese by WWII veterans (even ones who never fought them) than the Germans.[/quote]

On the history channel on one of the episodes they did a test during the war and asked soldiers who they would kill germans or the japs. It was something like 1 in 5 for the german but 5 for 5 for the japs. THey werent even considered human by most service men who fought against them.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How do German citizens treat their WW2 veterans? (Page 2 of 4)

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