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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:11:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's about time to do away with these bullshit short barrel laws, they are utter bullshit This. Short barrels, silencers, fore-grips, stocks, etc laws are all as fucked up as a football bat. Typical .gov entrapment stuff. How is .gov entraping someone with SBS, silencers, fore-grips, etc? Please review the legal definition of entrapment before posting your reply. Brian |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:12:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Do LEO's pay the tax for SBS or SBR's or are they exempt from the tax (oh that's right, LEO's don't pay for anything, we the tax payer do  )Local "tactical reponse team" members here have to pay the tax for their SBRs. I am fine with that, what kills me is the chief won't sign off on a SBR form unless you are on the team, no civilians or regular patrol officers. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:14:55 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Local "tactical reponse team" members here have to pay the tax for their SBRs. I am fine with that, what kills me is the chief won't sign off on a SBR form unless you are on the team, no civilians or regular patrol officers. God forbid our civi's have SBS's. Children within a 5 mile radious would just start dropping dead if someone had one of those....... |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:18:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do LEO's pay the tax for SBS or SBR's or are they exempt from the tax (oh that's right, LEO's don't pay for anything, we the tax payer do )Local "tactical reponse team" members here have to pay the tax for their SBRs. I am fine with that, what kills me is the chief won't sign off on a SBR form unless you are on the team, no civilians or regular patrol officers. get a NFA trust |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:19:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do LEO's pay the tax for SBS or SBR's or are they exempt from the tax (oh that's right, LEO's don't pay for anything, we the tax payer do )Good question. Another one: Can LEO's in a NON SBR/SBS state still get them? It would not be the LEOs weapon, it would be the departments. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:20:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: I am fine with that, what kills me is the chief won't sign off on a SBR form unless you are on the team, no civilians or regular patrol officers. This is common knowledge to some and to others it is unknown, but I figure I'll put it here just in case it enlightens even one person. You don't need a CLEO sign off if you use a trust or form a corp(INC, LLC, etc)...this can be a great help to people who don't have a cooperative chief. There is more information in the NFA section of arfcom for those who are interested. /hijack |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:26:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good morning your honor we are here because this killer has a short barreled shotgun.... Interupted by the Judge.. Was he hunting with it where a certain leanth is required to hunt? No sir Is it ever used for that or was it kept inside? It was kept inside sir... but we have a law... Interupted agian by Judge Do you have a short barrel on yours? Yes sure it is easy to go around corners etc when Interupted again, ... Son, do you use this weapon other than for home? no sir case dismissed... have a good day Thanks for that wet dream. Now back to your regularly scheduled tyranny. If you want that kind of decision work to get that kind of judge elected/appointed. Then again lobbying, donating your time and money to political campaigns and getting like minded people to speak out on "your" issues doesn't really work. 
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Posted: 9/16/2009 12:32:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Read this story and see what they do to LEO's around here doing something like this, only this LEO was
a 100 times worse. It still pisses me off big time to read it again. STORY |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 12:41:58 PM EDT
[#9]
He stole soap? somebody had a hard on for him
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Posted: 9/16/2009 12:59:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wonder if the home owner has a record and that's the reason for the gun charge? Brian Good point. I hope that's not the case. I kinda doubt the DA would be charging a 68 y/o grandfather with no criminal record. The gun may get confiscated and destroyed but I seriously doubt charges would be filed. I suspect there is more to this story...... Brian I used to doubt that a prosecutor would pursue rape charges against 3 people even after he had overwhelming evidence they were not only innocent of the charges, but there was no rape. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 1:30:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I'm going to be bold and perhaps racist (who isn't right now ) and say everyone involved in this shooting (victim, perpetrators) are heavily involved in trafficking, sale, or use of illegal substances.The same thought went through my mind too Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 1:34:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Wouldn't .fed get involved is it is an unregistered SBS....the DA might let the shooting slide with confiscating the nefarious weapon....but the feds can still come in and 'F' up his life....
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Posted: 9/16/2009 1:35:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
That's just fucking common sense. If you've got an illegal gun, it's probably best not to keep it as your primary home defense gun. Yep. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 1:36:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Well its good for cops using a short barreled shotgun for clearing a house because its easier to handle in tight places and moving around corners. But homeowners should do it with a 28" barreled shotgun because its for the children. The sarcasm was not lost on me..... you may step out of the line to the re-education camp, your attitude has been deemed correct! |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 1:47:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Only if there was an Amendment to the Constitution that would protect this man from the government in instances like this...
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Posted: 9/16/2009 1:54:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
I'm going to be bold and perhaps racist (who isn't right now ) and say everyone involved in this shooting (victim, perpetrators) are heavily involved in trafficking, sale, or use of illegal substances.Psychic? Hayes said Rollins knew Harris and picked her up at a convenience store Sunday morning after she called him and said she wanted to smoke marijuana, Hayes said.
They were only inside the house a minute or two when Bell and Young barged in, Hayes said. Rollins' roommate, Jason Rockwell, 30, was also inside the residence. https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-home-invasion-ormond-shooting-091409,0,1541756.story The Mayor is pretty freaking badass though. **Had to fix the reporters grammatical/spelling error. 
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Posted: 9/16/2009 2:02:49 PM EDT
[#17]
Note to self:
Just because it's not "legal" doesn't mean one should have it as a keepsake HDW, too much red tape. Now, an EBR and heads missing - that's what I'm talking about. Glad it wasn't me, y'alld have me in a frier, with the MSN and all calling "see what we mean"?
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Posted: 9/16/2009 2:07:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: OK I stand corrected.Quoted: Quoted: It's about time to do away with these bullshit short barrel laws, they are utter bullshit This. Short barrels, silencers, fore-grips, stocks, etc laws are all as fucked up as a football bat. Typical .gov entrapment stuff. How is .gov entraping someone with SBS, silencers, fore-grips, etc? Please review the legal definition of entrapment before posting your reply. Brian "Entrapment' is not the concept I was attempting to describe. What I was trying to say was the convoluted, confusing, arbitrary, easy-to-violate rules that BATFE comes up with, to control and regulate stuff that doesn't make any difference to anything. For example, I can put an vertical fore-grip on a rifle or shotgun, but not on a handgun, "because a handgun is designed to be used with only 1 hand". So what? Do these same BATFE officers train to use their own handguns 'with only 1 hand' only. Or do they use a 'unconventional' two handed grip for better control, as is taught in just about every self-defense shooting course? And why is it OK to have a 16" barrel on a rifle but not a shotgun? What about a rifled slug barrel on a shotgun? And as was mentioned here, was not the whole Randy Weaver /Ruby Ridge debacle, related to short barrels and coercion / entrapment / technicalities? and it is still a football bat problem. IMHO YMMV ETA - apologies to the OP - didn't mean to hijack the thread. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 2:10:25 PM EDT
[#19]
...and the good side of this story, 3 morons got punched full of holes.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 2:46:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Note to self: Just because it's not "legal" doesn't mean one should have it as a keepsake HDW, too much red tape. Now, an EBR and heads missing - that's what I'm talking about. Glad it wasn't me, y'alld have me in a frier, with the MSN and all calling "see what we mean"? I cannot for the life of me figure out what you are trying to say here. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:03:05 PM EDT
[#21]
He's lucky he doesn't live in Massachusetts. It's mandatory life in prison if you're caught with a unpapered sawed off shotgun.
The General Laws of Massachusetts (c) Whoever, except as provided by law, possesses a machine gun, as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, without permission under section one hundred and thirty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty; or whoever owns, possesses or carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a sawed-off shotgun, as defined in said section one hundred and twenty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for life, or for any term of years provided that any sentence imposed under the provisions of this paragraph shall be subject to the minimum requirements of paragraph (a). |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:10:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I hope the charges are dropped. Short barrel restrictions make as much sense and the '94 AWB. Yup, no real benefit - only frivolous restrictions that get good people in trouble. I'm not real sure how 16" is more dangerous to the public than 18"... especially when were talking about a friggin' shotgun. How are we going to make a lethal weapon "less" dangerous? Idiocy. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:16:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
This is why the whole Randy Weaver, Ruby Ridge thing started. Because of a 16" barrel on a shotgun. The Feds did not hesitate to kill people over those 2 inches of metal. No, it didn't. They had Randy on tape describing the proper way to measure the barrel, down the bore to the face of a closed breech. Randy measured and said "We cut it here. If under 18" it will be illegal." Then mysteriously the shotgun later showed up in court measuring 17-7/8", not over 18" as Randy said on tape. Get your facts straight... The Feds did not kill anyone over 2" of barrel. They killed Sammy and Mrs. Weaver over 1/8" of barrel. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:17:58 PM EDT
[#24]
I hate to see bad things happen to good people...Those invaders lived...thats a super nice guy. I hope he can defend himself properly ignorance to the law and all. I'm also in Florida and I have a Mossberg Maverick model 88 (6 shot) with ATI pistol grip and coll stock 18.5" bl
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:20:30 PM EDT
[#25]
If this guy is otherwise clean, he might have a defense under Heller.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:26:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
People here who are sticklers 100% for the law make me laugh. Shouldn't you lot be playing shuffle board at your church BBQ? I hope the case is not guilty or dismissed, perhaps set a precedent. Agreed. The short barrel restrictions are idiotic, burdensome, and unconstitutional So true. It is amazing how many stupid firearm laws we put up with. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:28:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is why the whole Randy Weaver, Ruby Ridge thing started. Because of a 16" barrel on a shotgun. The Feds did not hesitate to kill people over those 2 inches of metal. No, it didn't. They had Randy on tape describing the proper way to measure the barrel, down the bore to the face of a closed breech. Randy measured and said "We cut it here. If under 18" it will be illegal." Then mysteriously the shotgun later showed up in court measuring 17-7/8", not over 18" as Randy said on tape. Get your facts straight... The Feds did not kill anyone over 2" of barrel. They killed Sammy and Mrs. Weaver over 1/8" of barrel. I think of that just about every time I cut a piece of wood. Take the cut line or leave it? Which side? |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:36:36 PM EDT
[#28]
This is why with any gun you carry or may use for self defense, it must not be modified at all.
No trigger job, no aftermarket barrel, no self loaded ammo, It all needs to be factory original except nite sights. That way there will be nothing they can pin on you like: you decreased trigger weight because you had a desire to kill someone. you extended the magazine because you wanted to kill someone you changed the barrel so you could shoot hotter ammo you loaded ammo with extra powder specifically to kill, instead of just stop the threat. etc etc etc. You must assume the DA is a libtard and go from there. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:38:03 PM EDT
[#29]
GOOD shoot.
DUMB DUMB DUMB weapon to shoot with. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:39:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Local "tactical reponse team" members here have to pay the tax for their SBRs. I am fine with that, what kills me is the chief won't sign off on a SBR form unless you are on the team, no civilians or regular patrol officers. God forbid our civi's have SBS's. Children within a 5 mile radious would just start dropping dead if someone had one of those....... If it's department owned its tax free, however if an individual LEO owns it then he has to pay his taxes. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 3:54:16 PM EDT
[#31]
I think the law is stupid, however, I won't be cutting any barrels unless I get the stamp first. Maybe he'll get lucky at trial.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 4:03:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Sounds like a good test case. Yup. Take it to the Supremes. The only other hope is FIJA.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 4:14:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Did anyone read this STORY, A Polk County FL Sheriff's Capt got
a slap on the hand for stealing ammo, possession of a short barreled gun and gun with serial number ground off. Why should any of us be treated any worse than him? |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 4:16:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: This is why with any gun you carry or may use for self defense, it must not be modified at all. No trigger job, no aftermarket barrel, no self loaded ammo, It all needs to be factory original except nite sights. That way there will be nothing they can pin on you like: you decreased trigger weight because you had a desire to kill someone. you extended the magazine because you wanted to kill someone you changed the barrel so you could shoot hotter ammo you loaded ammo with extra powder specifically to kill, instead of just stop the threat. etc etc etc. You must assume the DA is a libtard and go from there. I hope that you never use your AR for killing BGs. There are sooo many cases of rabid DAs taking an otherwise righteous shoot to a jury and nailing the shooter based on magazine capacity, and a aftermarket barrel. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 4:29:44 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Short barrel regulations are bullshit to begin with; if he used that shotty in his home to save his life the worst they should do is confiscate it and bawl him out for having it. As previously stated; short barreled weapons are often better suited for indoor use which is why the police themselves, use them in the first place. Keeping a short barreled rifle or shotty in the home should be 100% legal for everyone; if the authorities want to break balls they should only do so when gangstas are caught walking the street with them concealed. Think about it; all this federal bullshit over short barreled rifles and shotguns. If they want to place limits on them for some bullshit reason; all that's needed are local ordinances prohibiting concealing them on your person when you are not on your own property or when you are not practicing with them on your own property or at the range. Why make a fucking federal case of it ? That would be the only thing to do in a sensible world. Our priorities are so messed up I can't see straight anymore. HH Again, why the fuck should they steal his property and give him a lecture for defending himself. Who ever measured the barrel should have kept his fucking trap shut. Since you are obviously looking for an argument and took the trouble of seeking one twice I suppose I have to oblige you. Firstly; you ignored the body of my post which I highlighted in blue; in order to argue over the fact that I said: "Short barrel regulations are bullshit to begin with; if he used that shotty in his home to save his life the worst they should do is confiscate it and bawl him out for having it." (rather than press criminal charges against the guy and ruin his life). That weapon is physical evidence in a shooting investigation; and whether you or I or the man in the moon believe that the law is unjust; it is on the books and due to the circumstances the weapon can't simply "disappear", nor can it be returned to him. But justice certainly wouldn't be served by charging the guy with a crime or incarcerating him simply for possessing it and using it to protect his home. Got it ? |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 4:34:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Quoted: Do LEO's pay the tax for SBS or SBR's or are they exempt from the tax (oh that's right, LEO's don't pay for anything, we the tax payer do )Good question. Another one: Can LEO's in a NON SBR/SBS state still get them? I'm pretty sure they can. I know for a fact that they can get post '86 FA, but we can't. A full auto AR-15/M-16 probably doesn't cost them any more than a semi only AR-15, but a transferable full auto AR/M-16 costs the rest of us tens of thousands of dollars. ETA: I'm not saying a cop can own this stuff personally just because he's a cop; I'm referring to stuff owned by the department. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 4:39:48 PM EDT
[#37]
DT.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 4:41:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
OK I stand corrected.
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's about time to do away with these bullshit short barrel laws, they are utter bullshit This. Short barrels, silencers, fore-grips, stocks, etc laws are all as fucked up as a football bat. Typical .gov entrapment stuff. How is .gov entraping someone with SBS, silencers, fore-grips, etc? Please review the legal definition of entrapment before posting your reply. Brian "Entrapment' is not the concept I was attempting to describe. What I was trying to say was the convoluted, confusing, arbitrary, easy-to-violate rules that BATFE comes up with, to control and regulate stuff that doesn't make any difference to anything. For example, I can put an vertical fore-grip on a rifle or shotgun, but not on a handgun, "because a handgun is designed to be used with only 1 hand". So what? Do these same BATFE officers train to use their own handguns 'with only 1 hand' only. Or do they use a 'unconventional' two handed grip for better control, as is taught in just about every self-defense shooting course? And why is it OK to have a 16" barrel on a rifle but not a shotgun? What about a rifled slug barrel on a shotgun? And as was mentioned here, was not the whole Randy Weaver /Ruby Ridge debacle, related to short barrels and coercion / entrapment / technicalities? and it is still a football bat problem. IMHO YMMV ETA - apologies to the OP - didn't mean to hijack the thread. 
Very well said; it's always been my belief that the only reason for the existence of those otherwise useless regulations is to artificially create criminals. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 4:45:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
This is why with any gun you carry or may use for self defense, it must not be modified at all. No trigger job, no aftermarket barrel, no self loaded ammo, It all needs to be factory original except nite sights. That way there will be nothing they can pin on you like: you decreased trigger weight because you had a desire to kill someone. you extended the magazine because you wanted to kill someone you changed the barrel so you could shoot hotter ammo you loaded ammo with extra powder specifically to kill, instead of just stop the threat. etc etc etc. You must assume the DA is a libtard and go from there. Non sequitur. None of those things are illegal, having a shotgun with a barrel <18" sans tax stamp is, and has been since 1934. Don't get me wrong, that law is bull. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 4:52:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Hmmmmmmm................. stupid hurts. The guys that showed up at Concord to fight the British were breaking the law, same as this guy. They stupid too? Just sayin. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 4:56:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: People here who are sticklers 100% for the law make me laugh. Shouldn't you lot be playing shuffle board at your church BBQ? Are you incapable of debating something without insulting a large portion of the population? Sure, let's not worry about obeying laws. Like these mean old conservatives and those nice Acorn people. So what's wrong with helping a nice young couple set up a whorehouse filled with underage, illegal immigrant, girls? You people who think they can pick and choose what laws to obey and which to break make me laugh. Do I get to pick and choose too? Or is it only you and Acorn? Read my quote above. Breaking laws is HOW WE BECAME A COUNTRY, sport. People like our Founding Fathers, people like Rosa Parks don't do what they're told when the law keeping them down is wrong or in this case clearly unconstitutional (the 2nd doesn't mention sensible restrictions, barrel lengths, btw). And, you know what? We're better for it. Some laws DESERVE to be broken....in order that when enough people do it or the right cases fall in front of the courts we regain rights stolen by bad legislation (see: prohibition, CCW cases, free-speech, etc.) |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 5:02:52 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What's the expression?
Quoted:
Waiting for linkage... I hope he get's good legal representation or the prosecutor drops charges. Let's hope a couple of arfcommers get on the jury for the trial. "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried my 6?" this however stupid hurts too. Methinks if there were other charges (criminal/felon with a gun they would have charged that dont you? Why does the guy have to be assumed a criminal, or is that just the first thing an LEO thinks.....must be a criminal? |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 5:26:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: thats how grady judd runs his county i guessDid anyone read this STORY, A Polk County FL Sheriff's Capt got a slap on the hand for stealing ammo, possession of a short barreled gun and gun with serial number ground off. Why should any of us be treated any worse than him? |
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Posted: 9/17/2009 2:56:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
thats how grady judd runs his county i guess
Did anyone read this STORY, A Polk County FL Sheriff's Capt got a slap on the hand for stealing ammo, possession of a short barreled gun and gun with serial number ground off. Why should any of us be treated any worse than him? Good Ole Grady. |
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Posted: 9/17/2009 2:59:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: Hmmmmmmm................. stupid hurts. The guys that showed up at Concord to fight the British were breaking the law, same as this guy. They stupid too? Just sayin.  .................. nothing like comparing apples to grapes is there. just sayin |
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Posted: 9/17/2009 3:05:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hmmmmmmm................. stupid hurts. The guys that showed up at Concord to fight the British were breaking the law, same as this guy. They stupid too? Just sayin. .................. nothing like comparing apples to grapes is there.
just sayin
Concord grapes? Mmmmmmmmmmmmm |
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Posted: 9/17/2009 3:07:06 PM EDT
[#47]
great case for jury nullification
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Posted: 9/17/2009 3:18:51 PM EDT
[#48]
I agree...............and I would like to see the length provisions changed from 18 for shotguns and 16 inches for rifles to 10 inches for both............
Quoted:
Short barrel regulations are bullshit to begin with; if he used that shotty in his home to save his life the worst they should do is confiscate it and bawl him out for having it. As previously stated; short barreled weapons are often better suited for indoor use which is why the police themselves, use them in the first place. Keeping a short barreled rifle or shotty in the home should be 100% legal for everyone; if the authorities want to break balls they should only do so when gangstas are caught walking the street with them concealed. Think about it; all this federal bullshit over short barreled rifles and shotguns. If they want to place limits on them for some bullshit reason; all that's needed are local ordinances prohibiting concealing them on your person when you are not on your own property or when you are not practicing with them on your own property or at the range. Why make a fucking federal case of it ? |
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Posted: 9/17/2009 3:23:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Fucking retarded. Short barrel restrictions need to be eliminated. Maybe this would be a good case to challenge them with. I concur. If used inside the home I have no problem with it (don't have a problem outside either). It's "law" that needs to be thrown out. Miller which upheld the '34 law actually contains language that would help to throw out the '34 law now. SBS are in common usage as a military weapon. |
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Posted: 9/17/2009 3:31:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is why the whole Randy Weaver, Ruby Ridge thing started. Because of a 16" barrel on a shotgun. The Feds did not hesitate to kill people over those 2 inches of metal. Excellent point Except that it was more like a quarter-inch. Weaver created a 18 1/4" barrel, just to be sure. The feds can't measure worth shit. |
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