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Posted: 1/24/2002 1:54:07 PM EDT
[#1]
The good old "Alternative Minimum Tax."
Loosely translated "So you don't really owe any tax but we don't care as we are going to make you pay some anyway." When will the myth about the wealthy paying no taxes go away ?? I've ben hesitant to post and now must say I'm far from sure but the top 5% (read the rich) pay well over 50% (hedge, big hedge) of the Federal Income Taxes paid. |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 3:39:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Damn, garandman, this is the SECOND post of yours I agree with (the wierd police guys/Harry Potter march being the first). I think I hear the ice machine staring up in Hell... [:)]
Yes, "the rich" sure as hell do pay ALOT, more than most people would believe- sometimes as much as HALF after all is done and said. Still, I'd rather have one-half of a million dollars than two-thirds of $30k. It's funny, that once we started talking specifics, it comes down to money, and feeling cheated, or to being treated "unfairly" by the system. When you're struggling to survive, and suffering doing it, it's natural to be looking for way to explain why it is that it's this way... Thanks to everybody- this turned out to be pretty interesting and informative... |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 4:34:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Major-Murphy
M-4gery Is the barb twisting in your flesh? The-Survivalist is at least seriously thinking about his freedom. It can disappear very quickly....and there are those who are now trying to take it from you. "I have written to our friends to provide themselves without delay, with arms & ammunition, get well instructed in the military art, embody themselves & prepare... that they may be ready in case they are called to defend themselves against the violent attacks of despotism. The people of this country were not driven to take up arms, they did it voluntarily in defence of their liberty. They properly considered themselves as called by God, and warranted by him, to encounter every hazard in the common cause of man." -- Samuel Adams |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 4:47:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Crap I wrote a lot and then lost it all. Oly we ain't never agreeing. You hve way to many holes in your arguments.The short form Taxes....are not a transfer of wealth from-to, just from. Vehicles,roads, pollution, masstransit. Gov't buys vehicles? roads...BOND elections masstransit----the system in dallas is more expensive than buying ALL the riders new cars Yes the gov't has vehicles, police cars, fire trucks, ambulances, vehicles for social workers to make "home visits", prison buses, and so on. Yes the gov't. manages road building, they do it with "the people's money" so "the people" have a way to get to home, work, school. I'd like to see mass transit that spends enough to buy cars for every rider. BCCI---big bank--lot's of shady land deals POOF Kalidiots were not using all of the power that their state produce...THEY WERE EXPORTING And? you don't believe in a free market economy?? Perhaps they had a contract to "export" and had to live up to it. Perhaps the power plant was within spitting distance of the CA/NV border and it was built to provide power to NV as much as CA. Cable guys----already happens Yeah of course many people complain about the price of cable, but continue to demand the service, and want price regulation. Don't complain because people get what the want. No buddy at one time we were driving twenty miles to get water....we maybe were going somewhere else but we had to pick up water. Sorry I am resposible for my own hard work...snooty much. How about your parents, ever give ya any money? I am too, buddy, I got a great job without a college education and I started out as poor white trash living on cash jobs and living in a house worse that what the welfare system was giving away across town. What does it matter what my parents did or did not "give" me. Perhaps they were trying to be responsible parents. I'm glad you are working and taking care of yourself. My point wasn't that you weren't. Just that I don't expect to be taken care of. Of course If I was hurt I might need a little help or unemplyment benefits........ As for the constitution, find me part or it that hasn't been trampled...and yes it was set up so that a person could have a least a hope of a level playing field. Not 40 to 60% taxation Find me where the Constitution sets a level of taxation?? If you are paying 60% taxes you are living in a much higher tax bracket then I'll ever be in. I suggest you have your chief of staff set up a meeting with accounting and legal to see what can be done to increase your deductions. and permits to travel, and etc........I am gone hound out Lost me there. |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 4:55:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Major-Murphy M-4gery Is the barb twisting in your flesh? The-Survivalist is at least seriously thinking about his freedom. It can disappear very quickly....and there are those who are now trying to take it from you. "I have written to our friends to provide themselves without delay, with arms & ammunition, get well instructed in the military art, embody themselves & prepare... that they may be ready in case they are called to defend themselves against the violent attacks of despotism. The people of this country were not driven to take up arms, they did it voluntarily in defence of their liberty. They properly considered themselves as called by God, and warranted by him, to encounter every hazard in the common cause of man." -- Samuel Adams Man, can you come into this century with your quotes at least? You know, the one where women and non-whites can vote and own property, where there's mass communication, ease of global transportation, nuclear weapons, multi-national corporations, many BILLIONS of people trying to survive? Heard of it? What "freedom" is being removed exactly? We can do almost ANYTHING we want to in this world, faster and better than ever in our history. The problem, in your eyes, is exactly what? |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 5:00:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Major-Murphy M-4gery Is the barb twisting in your flesh? I think I explained it before. Here are some of the points the_tax dodging, free loading survivalist made, they have been paraphrased inot what he meant. I want freedom, I want the protections that are afforded to people living in this Country. I want all my Consitutional Rights protected. I demand to vote for whatever candidtate I choose. I don't want to pay taxes. I don't want to follow rules or laws I don't like. I won't follow building codes or hunting rules. I want to run my big mouth. That is what I take issue with the "I'm the most important person in the world, pander to me" attitude. The freeloading "I demand XYZ", but I ain't paying for jack attitude. |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 5:44:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Oly just curious are you a socialist? some of your thoughts on taxation sound like it. As for 60% taxation believe it or not that is about true. We are not just talking about income taxes. Lets say you earn $100 subtract 30% for all payroll taxes (Income Federal and State, Social Security, Medicare, And the employer match which they would pay you if it didn't got to the Govt.) now you have $70. You goto spend it at the local gun store. you want to spend the entire $70 so there is $4.27 in sales tax (6.5% in NC) so you can get about $65 worth of stuff. You fork it over to the store owner you get your stuff. Well the taxes don't end there. There is the taxes that are included in the shipping (paid by UPS or whoever), the distributer, the manufacturer, the manufacturers suppliers, etc. etc. I do not have problem paying taxes for the items listed in the Constitution. But I do not want my hard earned money paying for someone else's laziness or mistake!!! You want to see a tax revolt do some simple things. First stop all withholding and make everyone write a check to the feds once a month. Second cut the hidden taxes, repeal all corprate taxes they are just passed to the consumer anyway. Always remember the only entity in America that pays any taxes is the individual.
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Posted: 1/24/2002 5:45:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: The-Survivalist is at least seriously thinking about his freedom. LT, that's the flaw in your thinking. Read his post(s). He ain't thinking. He's certainly not thinking "seriously". LT, I understand the gist of his sentiment, and your's. I think, however, that when an argument is presented in such an ignorant and unintelligent manner (as is the case here), that it's in our best interest to just move on. ([i]...and please stop with all the founding father quotes. Save them for something a little more profound.) |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 6:02:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Jesus H., WTF is up with this nonsense?
Is the AssWeb.com server down or its members over here on recess or something? Get a grip and take off the tinfoil hat, it'll make you go bald. |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 6:11:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Hello, I am an American freedom activist!, and I make this decree... ...that I will no longer be a subject. This is my vow. This is my new creed. From this day forward, I will not be subject to the unconstitutional laws of the United States government. This government is no longer representative of the people, therefore it is an illegitimate government. I will not fill out a form 4473. I will not submit to the "Instant Checks". I will not pay illegal taxes. I will renounce my social security number. I will not submit to illegal searches and seizures. I will own (and carry) a pistol witch I will not have registered. I will own an "assault weapon", witch will be an unregistered automatic, manufactured on a clearly post-ban receiver, with pre-ban parts. (as this ban and all other laws like it are illegal) I will buy post-ban magazines. I will not pay a yearly rent for property witch I "own" to the us govt.. I will not be made defenseless. I will be armed with the tools of freedom at all times. [50] I will say exactly what I want to say without fear of reprisal.[soapbox] I will build a home on my property without a permit. I will hunt on my property for the food on my table, without a permit. I will not hide, but will move freely without fear. [peep] I will if the desire arrives smoke "weed". (not that it ever will) I will consume alcohol though I will not drive after doing so, for I am a responsible citizen. I will vote for the candidate whom best represents my interests. I will find like minded individuals with whom to train for the defense of my land, home, and country. [marines] I will remit all forms of government ID if I so choose. I will barter with real money and not the fiat currency of the Federal Reserve. I will join the US military, but will refuse to serve under a foreign commander, and will refuse to serve on foreign soil, or to obey unconstitutional orders.[whacko] I will not support the murder of unborn children, but will espouse the responsible decisions to be made. I will accept that the enemy (the US govt.) will have my name on a hit list for this document.. I am a citizen of the United States of America, and these are my rights, as granted by god. No government has the right to take these rights from me. [%|] [BD] pretty much sums it up for me. Maybe you should build yourself a log cabin up in Idaho, start chopping down shotgun barrels, and see what happens next..... |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 6:14:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Do you think his Moped can make it all the way to Idaho?
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Posted: 1/24/2002 6:54:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Oly just curious are you a socialist? No, but I don't get to make the rules. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment and Worker's Comp are all partially or fully government socialist entprises. We could also get into state and federal support of healthcare systems, and colleges. When I say the commom good I was more referring to things that "the people" want done on their behalf. National Defense, roads, fire depts. etc. That's also why I put in there I believe in hard work......... I just acknowledge that there are "socialist" programs out there that "the people" seem to want. |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 8:27:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: I hear folks here rising to the defense of this great nation. It is a nation of great people, but a people who have let their Govt. become a Leviathan. Consider: Income Tax - Of course we need taxes - no one denies this. But when you are responsible for obeying a set of laws that are so grossly and irresponsibly complex that the IRS itself does not know that the law is, that is tyranny. The IRS can seize your property without due process and you have to prove that you are innocent. Tyranny at its finest. This is not even going into the issue of flat-out robbery. When 10 people come to me and say,"We need 15% of the property you earned this year or we will cause you harm." That is called robbery. Why is it that when 51% of the people vote to rob others, it is suddenly moral? Tyranny. Sovreign Immunity: When Govt. agencies can destroy the lives of the citizenry without due process. Please see EEOC, ATF and EPA for fine examples. Property seizures and asset forfeiture where your property can be taken from you without recompense for indefinite periods of time thereby destroying the livlihood of whomever they decide to target. Interpreting the law on a case by case basis and changing that interpretation at their whim. AND YOU CANNOT SUE THEM FOR DAMAGES OR GET COMPENSATION. Sovreign Immunity=Tyranny How many people have we seen in the last 5 years whose lives have been destroyed by the ATF for violating various reguulations that change on a whim. A Court System gone Haywire: Look to Bob Stewart and see what can happen. Whether you agree with him or not, he was not given the chance to defend himself in court. Go to Keepandbeararms.com to see what happened there. It is disgusting. The courts consistently allow laws to stand which are flatly and blatently illegal. Our cries for redress are ignored. Most people ignore this kind of tyranny because it doesn't affect most people. I propose that prior to the start of WWII, most Germans were not affected greatly by the Nazi's either. Most of them went to work as usual and came home to their kids at night. A Govt. does not need to establish Concentration camps to be tyrannical. A tyranny on a few is all it takes. If you for one moment believe that going through the 'legal system' or voting will change the course that this nation is on, you are naive. Those in power will never relinquish it. Their allies in the media and academia will see to it that all the children and the sheeple believe the proper things. The majority population that are net-tax receivers will always vote to rob the productive members of our society of their wealth. We will continue to become more of a democracy and less of a Republic and your individual rights will go down the toilet as this transition takes place. This country is great, but it is going downhill fast and althought the sentiment in the original post of this thread is bellicose, I understand its meaning and the thinking behind it. WATCH OUT!!! It's catching! another one sees whats happinin' !! [bounce] |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 8:35:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: I will if the desire arrives smoke "weed". Sounds like a plan. |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 8:35:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Quoted: Oly just curious are you a socialist? No, but I don't get to make the rules. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!! "We the people have surrendered our sovreignty! Largely through our own ignorance. You really think you get a "good" education in a government run school? That's like believing the nightly news!! Fairy tales! |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 8:45:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: and your arguments are single issue points thrown together, at least mine are consistent. Find me where the Constitution sets a level of taxation?? Article 1 sections 8&9 |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 8:50:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: It's funny, that once we started talking specifics, it comes down to money, and feeling cheated, or to being treated "unfairly" by the system. When you're struggling to survive, and suffering doing it, it's natural to be looking for way to explain why it is that it's this way... With out a single attack on grammar, spelling and education - just understanding and articulating the plight of another human. (Hang on DScott, I'll be right back. Got to go find something rotten to say about you.) |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 9:00:57 PM EDT
[#18]
I must say I appreciate the general sentiment of the original post in this subject.
That being said, I promise I'll pay you a visit on the prison's designated visiting days. The difficulty with enacting such ideas as yours is that it only works if it's done simultaneously by a statistically significant number of people, far above the potential number of people who will be sent out to get you. This isn't a battle that can be won one at a time, but will require mass action, coordinated effort, and a great deal of interaction and cross-support. One of the best approaches for a hypothetical revolutionary group to take is to actively recruit from within the ranks of the military, active duty, national guard, and reserves, and also from the local law enforcement agencies. If you can gain support from within the organizations that would be sent to bring you in, your job is MUCH easier. This will also help you to identify those who are NOT sympathetic to your cause, which is handy to know. All theoretical, of course. CJ |
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Posted: 1/24/2002 9:16:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: It's funny, that once we started talking specifics, it comes down to money, and feeling cheated, or to being treated "unfairly" by the system. When you're struggling to survive, and suffering doing it, it's natural to be looking for way to explain why it is that it's this way... With out a single attack on grammar, spelling and education - just understanding and articulating the plight of another human. (Hang on DScott, I'll be right back. Got to go find something rotten to say about you.) Ooh, ooh, just call me a "liberal". That ought to do it! Pretty much the worse thing you can say about someone around here, apparently. And once you've pulled out the ultimate insult, you get to rest pretty smugly knowing that you've won game, set, AND match with that blistering insight! Have a nice night! [:D] |
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Posted: 1/25/2002 10:51:28 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's funny, that once we started talking specifics, it comes down to money, and feeling cheated, or to being treated "unfairly" by the system. When you're struggling to survive, and suffering doing it, it's natural to be looking for way to explain why it is that it's this way... With out a single attack on grammar, spelling and education - just understanding and articulating the plight of another human. (Hang on DScott, I'll be right back. Got to go find something rotten to say about you.) Ooh, ooh, just call me a "liberal". That ought to do it! Pretty much the worse thing you can say about someone around here, apparently. And once you've pulled out the ultimate insult, you get to rest pretty smugly knowing that you've won game, set, AND match with that blistering insight! Have a nice night! [:D] librell |
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Posted: 1/25/2002 10:54:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Ouch! Spoken like a TRUE patriot!
[:D] |
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Posted: 1/25/2002 5:58:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Oly just curious are you a socialist? No, but I don't get to make the rules. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!! "We the people have surrendered our sovreignty! Largely through our own ignorance. You really think you get a "good" education in a government run school? That's like believing the nightly news!! Fairy tales! Youre right, I as one person in a nation of 250,000,000 should be the most important, I get to make all the "big calls". I shall change my board name to "Supreme Oly-M4gery". (lesser humans bow down). Thanx for your insight. |
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