User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 10:26:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Another good illustration. If you try applying critical thinking to religion, you'll invariably end up with the equivalent of getting a "Trust me!" from a used car salesman. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 10:29:36 AM EDT
[#2]
Good grief. Haven't we done this twice already this month?  Do you believe in God? Do you believe that the bible is His Word? If so, you must believe in Hell. If you doubt God, you must doubt Hell? How can you believe in Hell without God? If you don't doubt God and His Word, you have no logical choice but to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. (God wins in the end, in case you haven't read Revelation.) 'you know what Savior means? It means you ain't going to Hell, boy. Period:
m'kay? Sorry to be terse, but this namby-pamby "i sorta think there might be a God-type thingy, but i'm sorta kinda afraid of hell" crap gets old fast. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 10:29:46 AM EDT
[#3]
I don't go to church. Church is for suckers. Edited to add: My whole life is spent shooting or doing something fun. (so far) |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 10:32:14 AM EDT
[#4]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 10:41:44 AM EDT
[#5]
"Hell is when the man you've become, meets the man you could have been." ---unknown Had that for a sig line for awhile. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 10:55:59 AM EDT
[#6]
yes, hell is a real place, behave,or you will wind up there
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 10:59:49 AM EDT
[#7]
Comforting. 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 12:02:16 PM EDT
[#8]
It is to me - YMMV, of course. 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 12:27:18 PM EDT
[#9]
I am a father,
I have not spoken to my son in his entire life, Though sometimes I send him confused and contradictory messages through strangers. I have decided that no matter what happens he is on his own and I will not help him. I have decided that everything That feels good is bad and I should find some way to screw up his life as revenge. I have decided that if he doesn't grow-up to be exactly like I want, that I will screw him over forever. I have decided that he can't do anything good and I am his only way to happiness. I have decided that if just once he says "fuck you, DAD" that I will barbeque his ass for it. I have decided that his entire life will be rewarded by becoming worm food after living with all the pains and breakdowns of a system that could not pass QC in a chinese slave factory....what in the holy hell is an appendix? Let me be the first in this thread to just say....Fuck you Dad. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 12:36:12 PM EDT
[#10]
I absolutely believe in hell!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 12:40:56 PM EDT
[#11]
If I live a good life, and live a life of respect towards others and do the right thing, then I have no concern even if I did believe in a "hell", because I wouldn't end up there. If some "god" felt that my way wasn't their way, despite living by my own personal code, then fuck'em, I don't want to be accepted by that "god" in the first place. But I digress. I don't believe in heaven, hell, gods or devils. Its lights out once I'm dead, just another carbon based life form disolving back in to the earth, like trillions before me, and as many after me. No fuss, just the way it is. Lights out. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 12:42:53 PM EDT
[#12]
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 1:12:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Of course I believe in Hell, The Bible teaches it as truth.
My friend, avengeusa, is mistaken, however. Being good (or bad) won't send you to hell or keep you out. Only one thing will keep you out of hell....knowing Jesus as your Savior. He is the Only Way. There are no others. AmI afraid of going to hell? Not in the least. Jesus has saved me. I am on my way to Heaven, where He will be. I can hardly wait. There is no reason for anyone to fear Hell. Just accept Jesus as your Savior and Hell is a moot point.  |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 2:16:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Sure there is ... your Dad, Grandparents, and several good friends are there roasting, or so it goes, and you can't do shit about it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 2:20:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Mohammad Atta and Co. felt the same way. Just don't start taking flying lessons unless you move to Saudi Arabia.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 2:24:06 PM EDT
[#16]
I told you to stop asking questions.  Unless you're willing to turn off your brain, you're not going to be satisfied with the answers you get.
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 2:26:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Here here! |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 3:21:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Actually, Red_Beard, you have a good point. I do indeed have loved ones that are either on their way there, or already there. And that saddens me greatly. But one thing is for sure......I can't do a thing about it. Each person is the true decider of their fate. They have the ability to affect their eternal destiny. I can't make that decision for them. No one will be able to blame their eternal destination on anyone else. We are all responsible for our own decision. Choose carefully. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 3:25:30 PM EDT
[#19]
I am unaware of any Southern Baptists that have flown airplanes into buildings to kill innocent people. Perhaps you can remember some. But I doubt it. Unlike Muslims, Christians are not commanded to kill unbelievers of Christianity. We are only told to "tell them the good news". If they don't listen, that is not a cause to kill or harm them. Muslims, on the other hand, are commanded to convert by the sword and if that fails, to kill unbelievers in Islam. A great difference in the two religions. A blind man could see the difference. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 3:32:01 PM EDT
[#20]
 He loves you, Hound, whether you believe it or not. Won't you love him in return? The first step is a doozy, sure, but after that, it gets SOOOO much better.... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 3:36:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Another Amen. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 3:40:42 PM EDT
[#22]
I was thinking oklahoma TXL |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 4:20:38 PM EDT
[#23]
We agree. It was largely a joke. Regardless, and try to stretch yourself outside of your belief system, to people who find the idea of a "god" to be rediculous, it's extremely weird to live side by side with those that do. Now given my choice, I'll take Christians as neighbors any day over muslims....but in a perfect world, I'd MUCH prefer to live around people who's lives aren't guided by the "wisdom" of those who lived over 2000 years ago, and knew no better than to embrace mythology as a religion. 
|
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 4:35:34 PM EDT
[#24]
I know. No offense taken.
That's exactly what I've done. This wasn't my belief system. It is God's. I only bought into it.
I understand that. Have you considered the opposite? It works both ways.
Mighty nice of you.
It is not mythology. It is truth. I've met God and He is a Wonderful God. My life is so very much better since I've accepted Jesus as my Savior. I accept that you have the right to believe as you please. But I wish better for you, my friend. |
|||||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 4:40:15 PM EDT
[#25]
+1 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 4:41:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Brother Painless, if the Lord grants me the opportunity to attend Gunstock this year, you and I have GOT to talk.......
....... and PRAY! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 4:49:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Arizona, who would have thought? |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 5:04:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Wow. AROWNERAGAIN, HOUND, my hat's off to both of you. That was a truly amazing exhange. But... if the three of us should ever find ourselves outdoors in an electrical storm, I know who I'm standing by.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 5:55:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Yes, I do. I live it every day. A life you can't escape from, people you can't tolerate for a minute longer without wanting to do bodily harm to, family that leaves you in such a rage from just thinking of them that you beg for God to take you home only to fear they will be with you for eternity in heaven.
Welcome to my life.. fullclip |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 6:36:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Mutal respect, in a world full of differences, that's not too shabby. I don't doubt we have far more in common than we do otherwise. Cheers to your freedom, and mine. What is mine, is yours, and my home casts judgement only on an individuals actions, not beliefs. You're welcome down in Southern Florida any time. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 6:38:22 PM EDT
[#31]
btt for an all-too-rare glimpse of decorum in GD. Well done. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 6:49:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Not to re-start the Reformation or anything, but I don't believe there's such a thing as purgatory. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 6:52:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Well......aside from that whole "Crusade incident"....... Other than that, yeah, there's a Hell. Not sure it's the romaticised version or about the criteria for entry, but it's there. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 6:53:12 PM EDT
[#34]
defensive |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 7:05:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Yes, I believe in hell but not in a fearful way. It was made to house demons so they didn't run wild around the earth which is how those greek monsters were formed, half demon half human species which is why god had wipe out the earth with a flood and start over. Hell is a place I think people go but they have to choose to. Since it is the house of demons and heaven is the house of humans and god the only way you can avoid heaven and go to hell is by REALLY wanting to go to hell, as in you DESPISE god. You don't just have hate god, you have to show through actions that you hate his character because if you don't know the real god, and hate the god everyone lies to you about then it wouldn't be fare for god to send you to hell. If, however you actually know the TRUE gos and STILL hate him and if you are so corrupted and evil that you hate good for being good, in which case heaven would be hell for you and since god really does love us he will gove you the desire of your heart...to live in hell.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 7:26:55 PM EDT
[#36]
(quote) "We are all born of sin, deserving of Hell - we only get to Heaven by the grace of God. IOW, we are saved from Hell to Heaven, not banished from Heaven to Hell. YMMV." Thats what I don't get, "We are all born of sin, deserving of Hell." I really don't recall being given a choice as to how I was born or even if I would like to be born, so how is that my fault, and why is the punishment so excessive? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 8:02:14 PM EDT
[#37]
"Hell" is simply the "Grave". The word hell in the Bible is translated from Ghehenna, Sheol, and Tartaros. Ghehenna is a valley in Hinnom wheretrash/etc was (is still?) burned, and/or left to rot. That's why it talks about after the "White Throne Judgement" those cast into the fire would be consumed, and "their worm dieth not", meaning there's so much stuff there for maggots to eat. It's also why the Bible says it is appointed men but once to die, and the second death is the result of unrepentant sin. Being cast into the pit/fire is the second death. You can't be judged unworthy of eternal life, and live forever in a fire.
 There's only one way to gain eternal life, and it isn't by sin or disbelief.Sheol and Tartaros are the grave, where we all go until resurrected. Jesus is the only one who has been resurrected and gone to Heaven, and all others who have died are simply dead. They have no awareness or conscious thought at all. For them the time from their death until their resurrection will be an instant. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 8:18:19 PM EDT
[#38]
See my post on page 3 about asking questions. It applies to the notion of "original sin" as well. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 8:21:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Interesting fairy tale, but has nothing to do with the Bible and therefore has nothing to do with the truth. Interesting how people who don't actually believe what the Bible SAYS "go to the Greek and Hebrew" so they can come up with what the Bible REALLY says. In other words, they want to "reinterpret" the parts they don't like. Of course if they believed the Bible in the first place, they would not have to "go to the originals" (which are not even in existence). Hell means hell. It is a place of torment. It is a place of flames. Luke 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. God doesn't want men to end up in hell. Men end up in hell because they want NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TRUE AND LIVING GOD and they REJECT God's MERCY LOVE and GRACE. They reject the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other way to end up in hell. But it is real, whether you believe in it or not. You know, it sure is something - People that claim that they do not believe in hell sure tell people they hate to go there. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 8:28:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Nope, just a scare tactic. Worm food is your only furtrue.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 9:00:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Ps 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. You say hell is eternal torture, but it says "will not leave my soul in hell". Must not be eternal. Ps 86:13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell. "delivered my soul from the lowest hell." Another delivery from a place of no return. Ps 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. "if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." Now you think God is torturing himself in hell? Pr 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell. death, the hell. (grave). Pr 7:27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death. way to hell, chambers of death. Not chambers of eternal torture. Pr 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell. the dead are there, in the depths of hell. Not people living in torment, but the dead. Pr 15:11 Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men? Hell and destruction, not hell and torment. Pr 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath. life is to the wise, departing from hell. Not life is to everyone, but some to hell. Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. The dead shall be stirred up from hell (the grave) at Jesus' return, not pulled back out of the fire to be judged again. Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. "destroy both soul and body in hell." Destroy, not torture. Ac 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. "the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell." So you believe Jesus is in eternal torment, rather than having been resurrected, or was he resurrected part way through the eternal torment? Better yet, why "punish" someone in eternal torment who has never sinned? Re 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Again, died and was resurrected, defeating hell and death, where He was. Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. The sea, death, and hell gave up the dead to be judged, yet you say they were judged at the moment of death. How can hell give up it's dead if the people there aren't dead, but have eternal (but not fun) life? Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. The second death, but according to you nobody is truly dead. They all have eternal life, in one of two places, contradicting even the famous John 3:16. ("whosoever believeth", not everybody whether they believe or not). It's all very clear, if you open your mind to what you're reading. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 9:10:54 PM EDT
[#42]
That is an assumption and perhaps defensive in itself. "commanded" is with a small "c" and not spoken as the Word of God. It was meant as a an object lesson that the "C"hurch has commanded many things of Christians that were not proven as teh Word of God. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2004 9:41:35 PM EDT
[#43]
Replies to GoGop in red
You mean you think it is clear to you because you have already decided what you are going to believe. Mark 9:41 ¶ For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. 42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Hell is not the grave. If hell were the grave, it would behoove no one to cut off his hand, or cut off his foot, or pluck out his eye.... because everyone is going to the GRAVE anyway. Everyone goes to the GRAVE, but only those who reject the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ are tormented in hell. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2004 3:45:58 AM EDT
[#44]
If anyone can read all of Jesus' teachings on Hell and still not think it a literal and real place, then they are just too stuborn to see the truth.
Unfortunately this means that one day they will find the place to be all too real, and find that though God is loving and merciful, He is not a weak sap that will just benignly accept whatever men wish to do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2004 5:20:57 AM EDT
[#45]
criley,
If everyone is judged at the moment of death, who gets judged on judgement day? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2004 5:37:22 AM EDT
[#46]
Think of Hell more as a holding cell than a final destination. Man, when he dies, goes either to heaven or to hell until the time of the final judgement, when the wicked dead are raised and brought before the Great White Throne for judgement. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2004 8:35:04 AM EDT
[#47]
The whole premise of "hell" in this thread is that it's a place of eternal damnation, not temporary. (Which would be Purgatory). If they aren't judged yet, why do some go to Heaven while others go to hell? If some of the dead are already judged as wicked, why judge them again. I still see no support for instant judgement, other than conjecture. "Ec 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. " You're making quite a stretch of this permanemt/temporary, judgement/initial judgement/final judgement bit. The dead are dead. They don't turn into tortured ghosts in a burning jail. You can't resurrect someone who has eternal life, because they're still alive. Only the worthy/believers receive eternal life. You're still saying everyone has eternal life. If Jesus had just gone for a visit as you say, it would mean He was not dead, and we'd still have no atonement for our sins. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2004 8:42:58 AM EDT
[#48]
Well, let's see. Bill is still married to Hillary. I'd say that there are such things as Hell and poetic justice.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2004 8:48:46 AM EDT
[#49]
Better get right with your maker so you never have to find out
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2004 8:53:18 AM EDT
[#50]
None of you know for certain; all you have is the particular beliefs of your own religion that cause you to believe that it exists. Other than that faith, you have no proof. So maybe everyone can simply agree to disagree, and if one faith happens to get it right, so be it. In the meantime, let everyone else live their lives and practice whatever faith they want to follow, whether or not that faith happens to include any mention of a hell or afterlife of soem sort in it.
A year or so there was an interesting article in Smithsonian magazine about the creation of the Christian belief of a hell, which was rather unique in religions, according to the article,IIRC. Some of you might want to look it up. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
