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Posted: 8/23/2001 6:54:31 AM EDT
[#1]
My .02 cents...
Do what you will or who you will, just don't harm me or my family. I don't care about skin color or how you get your rocks off as long as you don't interfere with my life. Oh, and I always ask just one question of lesbian couples. "Can I watch? just once?" |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 6:56:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Just one question: If homosexuality is a "conscious choice", could YOU "choose" to be sexually attracted to a man? 'Cause, buddy, [u][b]I[/u][/b] sure as hell can't. In my opinion, then, homosexuality [i]is NOT[/i] a "conscious choice", and your assertion is in error. Not only that, but who the hell would choose to be someone that so many people hate and scoff at. Besides, even if you really liked anal sex, why would you choose a man? At least with a woman you have two options. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 6:57:18 AM EDT
[#3]
Hey reconxl, let's test out the genetics vs. choice theories.
Does this get you hot?: [img]http://theguyshome.homestead.com/files/Drag1.JPG[/img] |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 6:59:14 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Hey reconxl, let's test out the genetics vs. choice theories. Does this get you hot?: That's a bad example. That picture gets all of us hot, regardless of whether or not we're gay. [puke] |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 6:59:24 AM EDT
[#5]
Ok, by your reasoning Homosexuals are acting out of their nature. They were born this way and are only listening to their impulses. Then man is nothing more than an animal.
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Posted: 8/23/2001 7:07:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: I am in no way afraid of homosexuals. I find their lifestyle sickening and I will not tolerate people telling me that its a genetic thing. [b]IT IS A CONSCIOUS CHOICE![/b] Everyone wants to make a "disorder" out of their "issues" in order to justify what they are doing. Just one question: If homosexuality is a "conscious choice", could YOU "choose" to be sexually attracted to a man? 'Cause, buddy, [u][b]I[/u][/b] sure as hell can't. In my opinion, then, homosexuality [i]is NOT[/i] a "conscious choice", and your assertion is in error. Just because it's not YOUR concise choice, doesn't mean it isn't anothers. The point is we're all different and I'm sorry, but in college I saw some seriously fucked up things. I think people like to explore and when they find something they like, they will do it. It's simply a matter of enjoyment. Of course this isn't in EVERY case, I am just arguing your statement. As for Landon's comment, I agree that adoption by same sex marriages is wrong. The simple fact is they can't have kids of their own because of their sexual preference, so why should they get the luxury of getting someone else's kid. I'm sure many gay couples are and would be GREAT parents, but the issue at hand is the child's best interests. A child in the hand of heterosexual's may not be any safer, but that points to the issue at large when it comes to procreation and adoption which is, SHOULD WE HAVE A LICENSE TO HAVE CHILDREN... Shit ya need a license to drive and we see how many moron's have cars... why the FUCK would we let just anyone have kids... sure sure, freedom this, freedom that, freedom walked off with my pussy cat. -- GB |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 7:10:36 AM EDT
[#7]
Yeah I agree with you Goat boy except for one thing I have seen a lot of GAY1 animals dogs (both male and female humpin other dogas of the same sex) and hampsters MY wifes male hampsters are always turin gay...she gets rid of the offending hampster. she loves them all but the gay hampster makes the other males made so to keep peace in her colonies the offending hampster gets "LAUNCHED" from our two story balcony into the stream behind our home. My wifes mean isnt she?
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Posted: 8/23/2001 7:12:37 AM EDT
[#8]
The statement has been made that living in a homosexual household (or lesbian household) has a negative effect on children of that household.
I ask for documented, measurable proof. Cite references. Defend your thesis. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 7:18:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: The statement has been made that living in a homosexual household (or lesbian household) has a negative effect on children of that household. I ask for documented, measurable proof. Cite references. Defend your thesis. Society has only been accepting homosexual adoptions for such a short time, I seriously doubt if there is any viable data to either confirm or refute. Common sense dictates that a child brought up in such an enviroment will be forced to endorse the behavior. In the same way a child brought up in an incestuious household is far more likely to begat the behavior on his own children. When the child enters the equasion, it isn't a matter of "consenting adults behind closed doors" anymore. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 7:29:14 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: When the child enters the equasion, it isn't a matter of "consenting adults behind closed doors" anymore. I wasn't talking about adoption. I won't argue that yet, because I still haven't fully made up my mind on it. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 7:37:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: The statement has been made that living in a homosexual household (or lesbian household) has a negative effect on children of that household. I ask for documented, measurable proof. Cite references. Defend your thesis. I dont't think that statement's been made... at least not by me. I am saying that [b]I[/b] feel it's wrong. Anyone can be a good parent or a shitty one, you just don't know. For every example of a good gay couple I can show you 5 straight couples. For every bad gay couple I can show you 5 bad straight couples. It's why the larger issue is who should be allowed to have kids. I've seen time and again people UNFIT to being parents running around with a few kids... [i]I had written my experience with a gay friend who went through this problem and decided to remove it before posting. It may very well be WHY I feel this way, but it's also not my place to post other's lives in public. Although we haven't talking in 2 years now (he moved out of state) I think some things are best left to the families dealing with them. The quick summary is they were great parents until this kid hit middle school. The kid snapped and went totally wild within weeks and was never the same. It's hard to deal with things like this, abuse, divorce, or the loss of a loved one. To me this is not about gay or not, it's about the reality kids deal with and have others throw in their faces day in and day out. Think back to when you were a kid and you either made fun of a fat kid or a kid with a disability, just because he was different... It's just not right, but it's reality. Even with good parents this shit sometimes happens. I'm proud to say I may have done this once or twice, but I ALWAYS realized where I went wrong and ended up as friends with most of those kids.[/i] -- GB |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 7:38:04 AM EDT
[#12]
As I thought. NO EVIDENCE supplied to support allegations made.
GB, this post was submitted prior to reading your last post. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 7:43:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Ok, by your reasoning Homosexuals are acting out of their nature. They were born this way and are only listening to their impulses. Then man is nothing more than an animal. We're an animal capable of logical thought. We may not be able to control [i]what[/i] we're attracted to, but we are able to decide whether or not to [b]act upon[/b] that attraction. What you stated, however, is that you can [i]choose[/i] what you're attracted to, and I disagree with that. GoatBoy has a point, though. Part of the problem with homosexuality is the fact that we don't really understand its source. How much of it is ingrained, and how much of it is learned? History suggests that it has been around as long as there have been people, even in cultures that suppress it viciously. However, in cultures that don't have that taboo, it is much more common (but still not generally popular). This argues that at least to [i]some[/i] extent it's a hardwired behavior in a small part of any population, and that when not culturally suppressed it is further practiced by a somewhat larger percentage of the population by choice. And there are [i]always[/i] a majority of people who are strictly heterosexual. So, homosexuality is not an infectious disease requiring quarantine. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 7:54:48 AM EDT
[#14]
So in summation:
(A) Gay men= more women for the rest of us. (B) Gay women= fun to watch (C) Gay couples in general= contributing to the solution of the population problem. I'm having a hard time finding anything wrong here.... |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 8:06:12 AM EDT
[#15]
I am absolutley convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that much of sexual prefrence is by biological design, and not by choice. I can't really see anyone choosing a lifestyle that will cause them strife. That litle kid in 2nd grade that played dolls, and was effeminite?
I can't see him "choosing" to be that way. Maybe upbringing had something to do with it? One way or the other, I truly believe it to be a "hardwired" issue, whatever the cause of the hardwiring be, be it sociological, or biological. That being said, I believe child mollestors have something wrong with them, and deserve to be removed from society. It may not be fair, and it may not be right since they "were born that way", but any logic that can be applied to defend homosexuality can also be used to justify any sexual deviancy. The brass tacks of the matter all boils down to if we as a society are willing to regulate such deviants based on their behavior. We jail child mollestors... We jail rapists... because they are hurting other people. Gays? Well, as a culture, one could argue that while they are different, they are the least harmful amongst us. But [i]when you bring a child into the equasion. when you let people who are biologicaly forbidden from having children to adopt a child into an inherently deviant lifestyle, that isn't a "gay" matter anymore![/i] |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 8:15:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Please explain how gay people are "biologically forbidden from having children".
Since the sexual organs of the majority of gay people are presumably as functional as those of their heterosexual counterparts, how does their "biology" "forbid" them from having children? |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 8:16:17 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that much of sexual preference is by biological design, and not by choice. I can't really see anyone choosing a lifestyle that will cause them strife. I dunno about that, haven't you ever had a friend who you sometimes thought to yourself or said out loud, "Damn, if you were a chick I would be in heaven!" Now think about those on or near the border of their sexuality and a few of those are gonna go over to the other side... Many people that are gay come out of the "closet" simply because they are avoiding the strife, but now it's "hip" to be gay, so being different is not as big of an issue... -- GB |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 8:18:50 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Please explain how gay people are "biologically forbidden from having children". Since the sexual organs of the majority of gay people are presumably as functional as those of their heterosexual counterparts, how does their "biology" "forbid" them from having children? How many gays do you know that can conceive a child through sex??? Oh ok, game, set, and match. ]=) -- GB [i]It's not about their organs WORKING, it's about the physical ABILITY to have a kid through homosexual sex.[/i] |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 8:22:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Here is a thought,
A-Are there more male same sex couples or more female same sex couples? B-If there are 52% women in the population. C-And more male couples. Therefore someone must pick up the slack.....and since I a jewish and jewish law permits multiple wives? ahh just a thought |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 8:23:10 AM EDT
[#20]
Their ability is not in question, in question is their WILL to use their abilities to procreate.
The majority of gays are neither sterile nor impotent. BIOLOGICALLY they are fully functional humans. Don't claim victory too soon, buddy. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 8:24:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: I dunno about that, haven't you ever had a friend who you sometimes thought to yourself or said out loud, "Damn, if you were a chick I would be in heaven!" Remind me not to play at your house![:D] |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 8:25:03 AM EDT
[#22]
TheWind, ask a Mormon what kind of luck they had along those lines. [;)]
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Posted: 8/23/2001 8:25:05 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: I dunno about that, haven't you ever had a friend who you sometimes thought to yourself or said out loud, "Damn, if you were a chick I would be in heaven!" -- GB I have a friend named Dave who can cook, is impecably clean, shoots, hunts, and all that stuff... If the personality of Dave were put into a feminine girl, would I be interested? Hell yes. I just can't seem to get over his beard. [:p] I still don't understand how someone could find someone of the same sex attractive. There [i]has[/i] to be something wrong in the brain for that to happen... |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 8:43:46 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: I still don't understand how someone could find someone of the same sex attractive. There [i]has[/i] to be something wrong in the brain for that to happen... How dare you! Here's a little story.... I was rock climbing and camping in Joshua Tree. At night, there'd be alot of us sitting around the campfire, drinking and having fun. The fateful night.... Sitting on my left was this very athletic, French, rock-climbing girl. On my right, a very attractive Chinese-American girl. As the evening went on, we got drunker and drunker.... The girls started talking about two things: 1. How they'd like to experiment with lesbianism. 2. How much they dug ME. They began joking around, leaning over me and tongue-kissing right over my lap. This went on (to my delight) for 20 minutes. I figured, BINGO! JACKPOT!!![bounce] Then the Chinese girl got too drunk and threw up. She passed out cold. I tried to wake her up! I tried smelling salts! No use. I had to settle for just one. So Landon, please. Don't say anything that would discourage this type of female behavior. (note to self... begin work on time machine...) |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 8:51:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Landon, does Dave read these posts?
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Posted: 8/23/2001 8:56:16 AM EDT
[#26]
raf, that is an interesting question,personally one woman is enough. Can you imagine having both of them pissed at you, but both horny?
Forget that last thought. Yes the question would be as to the legality of polygamy. of course the question was raised of a religion (Mormonmmism) that had little prior history. Jews have thousands of years of multiple wives. And now wee also have many really good lawyers. but are we the men of our past? Can we have a thousand women as Solomon did? |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 9:02:46 AM EDT
[#27]
Have you been to the Philipines?
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Posted: 8/23/2001 9:06:13 AM EDT
[#28]
Imagine that two gay couples swap partners. M-M, F-F become M-F M-F, now they have babies, it was on ER once
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Posted: 8/23/2001 9:12:24 AM EDT
[#29]
If we lived in a country where it was possible to outlaw, what you just described....
....we would live in a country that could easily outlaw firearms possession. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 9:19:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Humans are simply animals, creatures of this planet who think they are above and beyond everything else. We're smarter so thus we're better. But, if we are simply animals (i.e. naturally ocurring) then we are subject to the same rules as all other naturally ocurring things. We follow a normal distribution (bell curve). This applies to all natural occurences, like the size of our feet, our intelligence, etc. Why would it not apply to sexual orientation. There is RANDOM ERROR in every aspect of our biology - from brain development to the size of our genetalia. Some have freakishly and unnaturally large ones, other have tiny and insignificant ones (I'm talking about brains, of course). So why is it so hard for people to accept that random error (of some magnitude) will apply to sexuality, and some people are just born with different wiring in their heads on this issue. If autism and schizophrenia are accepted as naturally occuring events, why not sexual orientation. I find it very odd, and peoples' refusal to accept such a simple concept often ahs more to do with them than anyhting else (and if often correlated with other political or religious beliefs). We're at the top of the food chain, so we MUST be the chosen people of some "god" who created us. How does this fit with the "simple animal" thing you said we were? Just curious, not a big deal. The point is simply this. If it's uncommon in nature, then to me it's most likely wrong. Guns, cars, cancer drugs, toothbrushes and airplanes are kind of uncommon in nature, aren't they? Is autism and schizophrenia "wrong" because it's uncommon in nature? Have you seen an autistic lion? Of course I'm just screwing with you, and we probably agree, but I found your argument weak, and could resist picking at it. [:D] |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 9:22:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: We jail child mollestors... We jail rapists... because they are hurting other people. Gays? Well, as a culture, one could argue that while they are different, they are the least harmful amongst us. But [i]when you bring a child into the equasion. when you let people who are biologicaly forbidden from having children to adopt a child into an inherently deviant lifestyle, that isn't a "gay" matter anymore![/i] Rape and child molestation does not involve mutual consent, so I don't think it's a good comparison. As far as adoption goes, I don't know any gay couples who have done this, and I don't have a final opinion on it. I see you and GB's point, but I also think it is arguable that the problem is not necessarily in gay couples adopting children, it is the scorn of straight people damaging the child. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 9:25:45 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Is autism and schizophrenia "wrong" because it's uncommon in nature? speaking of weak arguments, yes, they are wrong, that's why they're called DIS-orders, that's also why people with autism and schizophrenia are placed in special places where they can't endanger themselves or anyone else. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 9:31:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Some of the members here are nothing but hardcore liberals with guns. Makes me [:X*]!!
And as an added spice; a trivia question!: [b]Does anyone here know why homosexuality is wrong, according to the Bible? [/b] |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 9:44:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Some of the members here are nothing but hardcore liberals with guns. Makes me [:X*]!! And as an added spice; a trivia question!: [b]Does anyone here know why homosexuality is wrong, according to the Bible? [/b] No, we're just not restricted by religious dogma. Takes all kinds, doesn't it? As far as the Bible question goes, no I don't, and realistically, I don't really care. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 9:53:37 AM EDT
[#35]
...religion can stand in the way of freedom, at times.
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Posted: 8/23/2001 10:27:08 AM EDT
[#36]
If being a liberal means:
1) People having control of their own finances. 2) People doing what they want behind closed doors. 3) Not hating people for being different when it has no effect on me. 4) Not flaunting my ignorance by making dumbass comments. Then yes, I am a liberal. And I'm armed. Problem? |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 10:31:05 AM EDT
[#37]
Just to reiterate...
The government should not control me fiscally. So I'm not a Democrat. The Government should not control me socially. So I'm not a Republican. The Government should leave me alone and do it's job as outlined by the United States Constitution, not the Bible. I'm a liberal?!?!?!?!?!? [-!-] |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 10:39:50 AM EDT
[#38]
Ok, I didn't bother to take the time to read all of the above posts- 4 pages worth, so if someone already said this, so sorry.
I worked for the recent census and can tell you those figures are doctored or BS. The pro-homosexual rights groups jumped on the "Unmarried partner" listing and automatically assumed that these people were homosexual. I was there, I interviewed people and met plenty of people who said put us down as "unmarried partner" and were not homosexual. Why? some were foreign and didn't understand the wording- Census workers are not allowed to dispute someone's answer. They simply take it and write it down, if done in person. Some did it as a joke and thought it was hilarious. Some were brothers or sisters who had been living together for years. Some just plain lied. All I can tell you is, the census is probably about 75% if that, accurate and take it for what it's worth. -not much. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 10:40:19 AM EDT
[#39]
But how would you feel when they make it compulsory so that school teaches our children about being Gay. This what the Gay Right people want so the generation grow up accepting them ? This is what bothers me the most.
I accept them and does not bother me what they do in private but what affects would it have on Children when they get exposed to reasoning it sooner than they should although most already know something about it? |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 11:12:53 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Some of the members here are nothing but hardcore liberals with guns. Makes me [:X*]!! And as an added spice; a trivia question!: [b]Does anyone here know why homosexuality is wrong, according to the Bible? [/b] Who?? I keep hearing the conservatives say that they don't want big brother in peoples lives. Why should I be able to put my standards for conduct on someone else?? Conservatives say a man's home is his castle, and what goes on therein is no elses ones business. Of course you want to be in other peoples lives..... who is the liberal?? |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 11:54:29 AM EDT
[#41]
Just to put my two cents in.
I have a (straight) friend who used to fancy himself an artist, and hung around the artist community locally, which included many gay males. Through him, I got to know some of them, so I think I have at least a passing knowledge on the subject. Most gays are NOT the flaming cross-dressers you see in the "Gay Day" parades in San Francisco or Key West. Most of them would no more do that than most straights would have sex in public or on television (or the internet). When gays want children, the "standard" way to do it has become for a homosexual male couple to find a lesbian couple and share custody...adoption is usually seen (according to the people to whom I spoke) as too difficult and problematic. Most homosexuals report NEVER being attracted to women, and ALWAYS being attracted to men. I may be wrong and I have no firm scientific findings to confirm this, but this leads me to believe that it is genetic. Contrary to Goatboy's assertion, there IS homosexual activity in nature: it can even be seen among the higher primates, such as bonobo chimpanzees. This too would lead me to believe that homosexality is a biological condition rather than a learned behavior in most gays. Not ALL, but the majority. Personally, I find the very concept of male-male sex to be physically disgusting, but then I also find the idea of eating sheep scrotum to be disgusting, yet some people in the world do that and I don't hate them for it. I don't want to watch them do it, but I don't hate or fear them because of it. In sum, I have to go along with what a few others have said in this thread: as long as it involves consenting adults, and as long as I don't have to watch it, I don't really care what people do to get off. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 12:10:56 PM EDT
[#42]
I hate homosexuality. Not homosexuals. The act is a perversion of an act that, for us humans is spiritual as well as physical. Homosexuals make up 1/2% of the population yet commmit 20% of the pedophillia. It is a recruiting type of behavior and a boy's first sexual encounter will predispose (not necessarily dictate) his "preference".
Those of you reasoning under the incorrect assumption that there exists or could exist a religion neutral government are going to have a difficult time establishing a basis for any of our rights. The reason I as a Christian rally to retain our nation's Bible based governmental system is because government WILL reflect someone's religious beliefs. Under mine, this has become the most powerfull nation the world has ever known. I refuse those of the militant homosexual movement. The growth of homosexuality will be an important element in our downfall as a nation. If you do not beleive you are created by God in his image then this argument begins in an entirely different place and debate here is pointless. The point remains that few freedom lovers have a problem with what people do in private, however the fear is what the militant homosexual does once he has acceptance, government protection, and political power. If all you base your reasoning on is the current rosey picture of the happy homosexual family with the great child raising enviroment and not the other darker side then your thought process is crippled too high for crutches. Planerench out. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 12:18:06 PM EDT
[#43]
GOD CREATED ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND STEVE!
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Posted: 8/23/2001 12:33:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: GOD CREATED ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND STEVE! ENGLAND DID IT, AUSTRALIA DID IT, WE CAN TOO!! Care to explain how chanting someone else's slogan contributes to a discussion? |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 12:36:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: I refuse those of the militant homosexual movement. [b]??????????[/b] |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 12:43:33 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Homosexuals make up 1/2% of the population yet commmit 20% of the pedophillia. Which means heterosexuals committ EIGHTY PERCENT of the pedophilia. Damn those dirty heterosexuals...they should all be wiped out! If you do not beleive you are created by God in his image then this argument begins in an entirely different place and debate here is pointless. Well, that's one thing we can agree on. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 12:44:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: I refuse those of the militant homosexual movement. [b]??????????[/b] I guess he means that some homosexual hit on him in he army while he was having a movement??? |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 12:54:33 PM EDT
[#48]
I guess you have never seen the gay pride march in SanFransico. You would know what I mean.
You are correct that this begins and ends in a God, no God type argument. That is why it is so heated on both sides. Planerench out. |
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Posted: 8/23/2001 12:57:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Heterosexuals constitute 99.5% of the population and perpetrate 80% of the pedophilia. If you can't see the disparity then you must have graduated from public schools. Planerench out.
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Posted: 8/23/2001 1:02:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Some of the members here are nothing but hardcore liberals with guns. Makes me [:X*]!! And as an added spice; a trivia question!: [b]Does anyone here know why homosexuality is wrong, according to the Bible? [/b] The Bible makes many, many references to homosexuality and the fact of it being an abomination. For the sake of it, an abomination is typically defined as [b]"Anything or any practice that is out of harmony with God's character of love."[/b] To follow are a few points of reference in the Bible wherein one can get the general idea as to God's view on homosexuality and the wrath that type of lifestyle incurs: [b]Genesis 19:5-11, Deuteronomy 29:23, Genesis 13:13, Genesis 18:20-21, Jude 1:4,7,8[/b]. There are numerous others. God forbad men to lie with men as one would with a woman. Scientific reasons are not mentioned nor are they important. Whether one chooses to be gay or is born gay is of little significance. As was mentioned earlier, many genetic defects occur throughout nature. In addition, man is the only animal capable of choosing. Regardless, the Bible says it is wrong. Personally, I know some gay folks and find them to be rather nice folks commonly thought of as good citizens. Of course, our queers here in Tennessee are not like the queers in large metropolitan areas. FLamboyant is not a word commonly associated with rural homos. Again, hate the sin, not the sinner. To hate a homosexual is just as much a sin as his lifestyle that you condemn. |
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