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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:02:36 PM EDT
[#1]
If slavery had never existed would there have been any other motivation large enough to split the Union?
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:02:59 PM EDT
[#2]
It plays much better than teaching states rights, legal succession, and limited government.
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:04:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Different classes, different takes on it.
Survey courses tend to focus on the issue of slavery and not the composite of states' rights issues of which slavery was the hot topic. ETA: Graduated college in May. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:06:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you really not understand how nonsensical this is? Here, let's try this on for size: My wife wanted a divorce, in order to preserve our union I killed her and her family My business partners wanted to go their separate ways. In order to preserve our union I burnt their homes and raped their wives. Bottom line - a "Union" cannot be preserved by force. Once it is, it becomes slavery - the very institution you rail about Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The South rebelled and seceded to preserve slavery the North fought to preserve the Union. States rights is a construct of the post war "Lost Cause" revisionist history movement by the defeated rebels. Slavery was the main reason as much as revisionists like deny it. Do you really not understand how nonsensical this is? Here, let's try this on for size: My wife wanted a divorce, in order to preserve our union I killed her and her family My business partners wanted to go their separate ways. In order to preserve our union I burnt their homes and raped their wives. Bottom line - a "Union" cannot be preserved by force. Once it is, it becomes slavery - the very institution you rail about You forget that almost half of the population WERE slaves and the freedom loving people of the North didn't think that was okay. The abolitionist movement was strong and not going to tolerate it . Tough titty about your slaves, they're free now. Too bad your ancestors were too lazy to pick their own crops. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:06:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If slavery had never existed would there have been any other motivation large enough to split the Union? No. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:07:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In for the perpetual Northern butthurt when they realize their ancestors died....stupidly. All for naught. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In for the southern butt hurt  In for the perpetual Northern butthurt when they realize their ancestors died....stupidly. All for naught. lol sore loser
For the record my moms side was probably fighting for the South...think they lost a shit ton of land out of the civil war and my dads family was raising hunting dogs for the Kaiser. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:08:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If slavery had never existed would there have been any other motivation large enough to split the Union? money always money, it was common in the northern press to support deportation of slaves to liberia. but they figured out how to destroy the black family and put them right back on the plantation with AFDC. slaves once again sadly for many of them. The VAST majority of people in the army of the Potomac gave two shits for slavery or the slaves and didn't consider themselves there to die for them. contrary to hollywood. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:09:06 PM EDT
[#8]
I had US history at a private bible thumping school. They preached about how the North was a force of justice and good. When I looked at it on my own, it became clear that the North did some very shitty things...
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:09:53 PM EDT
[#9]
So then the answer to the question is -- - the white man of 1860 went to war over the plight black man.
 Parents in the North sent their children off to die to free the slaves.
OK. All the while slavery was still legal in parts of the North. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:11:00 PM EDT
[#10]
The whole thing really started when a new president was elected from a new party. Southerners didn't like no being able to pick the guy, and were all like "no wai that's not our president." The North was like, "Yeah huh!" and the South was like "We quit then." Later, when Southerners got tired of trying to build railroads and make food out of cotton they were like "pew pew" and attacked Fort Sumter. So Lincoln, in an attempt to ruin the southern economy, was like "Well fine you can't own people anymore." This was bad news bears because the entire Southern economy was based on owning people. So the war kind of dragged on until the South ran out of boots and steel and shit. The North was like "lol nice cotton shirts, here, have some bayonets." Finally, Sherman burned down all their cotton plantations and we haven't heard them stop whining about it since.
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:15:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We shot the fuck out of the slavers and stopped them from torturing and raping on their little down home concentration camps. Seems like a win. Although everyone in my family was pretty much starving, or drunk, in Ireland so whatever Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In for the southern butt hurt In for the perpetual Northern butthurt when they realize their ancestors died....stupidly. All for naught. Although everyone in my family was pretty much starving, or drunk, in Ireland so whatever +1 |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:15:17 PM EDT
[#12]
These threads are so funny.
After seceding, every single confederate state rewrote their constitution to include the right to own slaves. This was before revisionist history, Makes me think slavery was pretty high up on the Souths list of rights. I used to give a lot of credence to the War of Northern Aggression. But I am starting to think the South was just a bunch of traitors. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:16:53 PM EDT
[#13]
It seems it's a favorite topic in certain right-wing circles to want to beat this dead horse. Let's give it a rest. Slavery was the main cause of the Civil War.
If you study the history of the U.S. in the period, say, of 1820 to 1860, every major political dispute revolved around slavery, or at least, whether it should be expanded to new territories. That's why we had the Missouri Compromise, the issues over the annexation of Texas, the Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska Act, etc., etc. The election of Lincoln was the culmination of a long series of events and was the proximate cause of South Carolina's secession. The only "state's right" that was in serious dispute was the state right to promote the ownership of slaves. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:18:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even the Nun's Taught us: Civil War=States Rights!! 
ETA: Sister Sheila  I'm Lutheran {Missouri Synod} and I'd let Sister Shelia spank my bare ass for teaching the truth. Not that I'm into that sort of thing. 
How old am I? I was a da-da-damn SATEEN MARINE. I was born 1yr 3months before this sateen item was made: 
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:19:00 PM EDT
[#15]
When I graduated in 94 that was what was taught.
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:19:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The South rebelled and seceded to preserve slavery the North fought to preserve the Union. States rights is a construct of the post war "Lost Cause" revisionist history movement by the defeated rebels. Slavery was the main reason as much as revisionists like deny it. The perpetual Union is a construct of Lincoln. It is found nowhere in the Constitution itself. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:20:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If slavery had never existed would there have been any other motivation large enough to split the Union? So, your school never taught you about "State Line Tarrifs"? Did your school let Woodshop be a class for higher electives? 
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:22:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Early on, no. But then Lincoln wasn't worshiped for a long time like he is today. It's always fun to sit back and watch people on this website (who claim to be freedom loving Conservatives) argue what are essentially 1930s era Progressive talking points regarding Lincoln. Here's the reality: neither side was as pure as the wind-driven snow. NO SHIT! When two people groups that were not previously "enemies" go to war there is likely a whole lot of shenanigans going on on both sides that lead to said war. It's very unlikely that the war was started entirely by one side or the other. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:26:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These threads are so funny. After seceding, every single confederate state rewrote their constitution to include the right to own slaves. This was before revisionist history, Makes me think slavery was pretty high up on the Souths list of rights. I used to give a lot of credence to the War of Northern Aggression. But I am starting to think the South was just a bunch of traitors. remember it was about how much the slave counted towards representation. the whole "three fifths" is not about anything other than political power. money is generally the root of all conflict at some point, well that or crazy ass islam but that wasn't the case then. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:27:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We shot the fuck out of the slavers and stopped them from torturing and raping on their little down home concentration camps. Seems like a win. Although everyone in my family was pretty much starving, or drunk, in Ireland so whatever Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In for the southern butt hurt In for the perpetual Northern butthurt when they realize their ancestors died....stupidly. All for naught. Although everyone in my family was pretty much starving, or drunk, in Ireland so whatever Seriously? You come on here talking about all the cop hate and then you put his on here about slavers raping and torturing slaves on concentration camps. I hope this was a try at humor and not your true opinion. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:27:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The perpetual Union is a construct of Lincoln. It is found nowhere in the Constitution itself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The South rebelled and seceded to preserve slavery the North fought to preserve the Union. States rights is a construct of the post war "Lost Cause" revisionist history movement by the defeated rebels. Slavery was the main reason as much as revisionists like deny it. The perpetual Union is a construct of Lincoln. It is found nowhere in the Constitution itself. Well, it is found in the preamble to the CSA Constitution. I guess the right to secede only applied to one issue. We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity--invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God--do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America. They tweaked some wording from the original, lest their be any misunderstanding down the road. Oh, and made sure to add this: No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed. The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired. Can't let any states in your new country get any crazy ideas, now. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:29:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You forget that almost half of the population WERE slaves and the freedom loving people of the North didn't think that was okay. The abolitionist movement was strong and not going to tolerate it . Tough titty about your slaves, they're free now. Too bad your ancestors were too lazy to pick their own crops. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The South rebelled and seceded to preserve slavery the North fought to preserve the Union. States rights is a construct of the post war "Lost Cause" revisionist history movement by the defeated rebels. Slavery was the main reason as much as revisionists like deny it. Do you really not understand how nonsensical this is? Here, let's try this on for size: My wife wanted a divorce, in order to preserve our union I killed her and her family My business partners wanted to go their separate ways. In order to preserve our union I burnt their homes and raped their wives. Bottom line - a "Union" cannot be preserved by force. Once it is, it becomes slavery - the very institution you rail about You forget that almost half of the population WERE slaves and the freedom loving people of the North didn't think that was okay. The abolitionist movement was strong and not going to tolerate it . Tough titty about your slaves, they're free now. Too bad your ancestors were too lazy to pick their own crops. But you say above the North fought to preserve the Union, not to free slaves? Which is it? Flip flop much? |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:30:39 PM EDT
[#23]
The slavery issue is pushed at public school.
States Right at private school. I went to both. First public then private for high school. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:30:44 PM EDT
[#24]
There is no way to separate slavery and states rights when it comes to the civil war. They are one and the same. The south succeeded over the fear that the north would ban slavery, which they felt was something their state should have the right to determine. The north fought to preserve the nation from the states that succeeded over slavery.
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:30:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, it is found in the preamble to the CSA Constitution. I guess the right to secede only applied to one issue. We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity--invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God--do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America. They tweaked some wording from the original, lest their be any misunderstanding down the road. Oh, and made sure to add this: No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed. The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired. Can't let any states in your new country get any crazy ideas, now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The South rebelled and seceded to preserve slavery the North fought to preserve the Union. States rights is a construct of the post war "Lost Cause" revisionist history movement by the defeated rebels. Slavery was the main reason as much as revisionists like deny it. The perpetual Union is a construct of Lincoln. It is found nowhere in the Constitution itself. Well, it is found in the preamble to the CSA Constitution. I guess the right to secede only applied to one issue. We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity--invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God--do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America. They tweaked some wording from the original, lest their be any misunderstanding down the road. Oh, and made sure to add this: No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed. The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired. Can't let any states in your new country get any crazy ideas, now. that shit was definitely added by yankee time travelers....fuckin yankees always using their smarts and technology to beat the good-ole boys |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:37:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But you say above the North fought to preserve the Union, not to free slaves? Which is it? Flip flop much? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The South rebelled and seceded to preserve slavery the North fought to preserve the Union. States rights is a construct of the post war "Lost Cause" revisionist history movement by the defeated rebels. Slavery was the main reason as much as revisionists like deny it. Do you really not understand how nonsensical this is? Here, let's try this on for size: My wife wanted a divorce, in order to preserve our union I killed her and her family My business partners wanted to go their separate ways. In order to preserve our union I burnt their homes and raped their wives. Bottom line - a "Union" cannot be preserved by force. Once it is, it becomes slavery - the very institution you rail about You forget that almost half of the population WERE slaves and the freedom loving people of the North didn't think that was okay. The abolitionist movement was strong and not going to tolerate it . Tough titty about your slaves, they're free now. Too bad your ancestors were too lazy to pick their own crops. But you say above the North fought to preserve the Union, not to free slaves? Which is it? Flip flop much? It's probably too complicated for you to fathom. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:39:57 PM EDT
[#27]
I love it when Southerners argue it was about State's Rights. While technically true, I wonder which of those rights besides slavery those Southern states all decided to secede and fight a war over.
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:44:23 PM EDT
[#28]
the private school I went to nearly 15 years ago learned me differently.....
I was originally told it was about the government overstepping their bounds and that the north actually kept their slaves longer to rebuild the white house, then sent them to slaughter on the front lines during the war. sending whole units of african americans union soldiers to their deaths "as free men"....... But It was a private school in GA that was closed a few years later... go figure. 
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:45:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, it is found in the preamble to the CSA Constitution. I guess the right to secede only applied to one issue. We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity--invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God--do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America. They tweaked some wording from the original, lest their be any misunderstanding down the road. Oh, and made sure to add this: No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed. The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired. Can't let any states in your new country get any crazy ideas, now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The South rebelled and seceded to preserve slavery the North fought to preserve the Union. States rights is a construct of the post war "Lost Cause" revisionist history movement by the defeated rebels. Slavery was the main reason as much as revisionists like deny it. The perpetual Union is a construct of Lincoln. It is found nowhere in the Constitution itself. Well, it is found in the preamble to the CSA Constitution. I guess the right to secede only applied to one issue. We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity--invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God--do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America. They tweaked some wording from the original, lest their be any misunderstanding down the road. Oh, and made sure to add this: No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed. The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired. Can't let any states in your new country get any crazy ideas, now. What does any of that have to do with the point I actually made? |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:46:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what they taught when I was in school 20 years ago. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:48:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love it when Southerners argue it was about State's Rights. While technically true, I wonder which of those rights besides slavery those Southern states all decided to secede and fight a war over. ETA: Want to let everyone know how many blacks were killed in racist antiwar riots in Northern states during the war? The fact is that "tolerant" Yankees burned churches and strung up free black men like Christmas ornaments all over New York in protest to the war. They even burned down a black orphanage, something that I have never heard of "evil" Confederates doing. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:51:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What does any of that have to do with the point I actually made? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The South rebelled and seceded to preserve slavery the North fought to preserve the Union. States rights is a construct of the post war "Lost Cause" revisionist history movement by the defeated rebels. Slavery was the main reason as much as revisionists like deny it. The perpetual Union is a construct of Lincoln. It is found nowhere in the Constitution itself. Well, it is found in the preamble to the CSA Constitution. I guess the right to secede only applied to one issue. We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity--invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God--do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America. They tweaked some wording from the original, lest their be any misunderstanding down the road. Oh, and made sure to add this: No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed. The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired. Can't let any states in your new country get any crazy ideas, now. What does any of that have to do with the point I actually made? That the perpetual union aspect of the US was widely understood, that legal wrangling over it was de rigueur among secessionists in that era, and that therefore they applied some minor "tweaks." |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:53:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Slavery may not have been the bomb that started the civil war, but it was certainly the match that lit the fuse...
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:56:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love it when Southerners argue it was about State's Rights. While technically true, I wonder which of those rights besides slavery those Southern states all decided to secede and fight a war over. At the time, the South generated 2/3 of U.S. exports. The federal government had put tariffs in place that provided 90% of federal revenue. The result was that 18.5% of America's citizens (who lived in the South) funded the majority of the Federal government. Was this a bigger driver than slavery? No, of course not. But, it was one among many straws that broke the camel's back. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:56:22 PM EDT
[#35]
The two states' rights supposedly most important to be left to states, and thus worth fighting a war over - the right to secede, and the right to decide for themselves whether or not not have slaves.
Both are clearly eliminated in the CSA Constitution. The new union is declared "permanent," and Slavery must not only kept legal but respected. Amazing, that. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:56:33 PM EDT
[#36]
I have lived in Texas my entire life and started going to segregated public schools in 1959.
In 1966 starting eighth grade my public school was integrated with blacks. And as far as I can ever remember slavery was the basic taught concept of the civil war. Fwiw the white guys fought with the Mexicans a hell of a lot more than they did with the blacks. And that's the way it was then in my school district. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:56:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seriously? You come on here talking about all the cop hate and then you put his on here about slavers raping and torturing slaves on concentration camps. I hope this was a try at humor and not your true opinion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In for the southern butt hurt In for the perpetual Northern butthurt when they realize their ancestors died....stupidly. All for naught. Although everyone in my family was pretty much starving, or drunk, in Ireland so whatever Seriously? You come on here talking about all the cop hate and then you put his on here about slavers raping and torturing slaves on concentration camps. I hope this was a try at humor and not your true opinion. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 5:59:39 PM EDT
[#38]
I'm guessing 11 pages by dawn, no offense to the op but this is a little generic, not sure it has legs
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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:02:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tenth Amendment and the inherent freedom of association. Not to even mention that slavery wasn't unconstitutional at the time of the war nor was it abolished until a kangaroo legislature could be appointed long after the end of the war. ETA: Want to let everyone know how many blacks were killed in racist antiwar riots in Northern states during the war? The fact is that "tolerant" Yankees burned churches and strung up free black men like Christmas ornaments all over New York in protest to the war. They even burned down a black orphanage, something that I have never heard of "evil" Confederates doing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I love it when Southerners argue it was about State's Rights. While technically true, I wonder which of those rights besides slavery those Southern states all decided to secede and fight a war over. ETA: Want to let everyone know how many blacks were killed in racist antiwar riots in Northern states during the war? The fact is that "tolerant" Yankees burned churches and strung up free black men like Christmas ornaments all over New York in protest to the war. They even burned down a black orphanage, something that I have never heard of "evil" Confederates doing. You'll never hear me say that the north wasn't/isn't as racist themselves, especially today. But the war was fought over slavery. Plain and simple. Were their other factors? Of course...no war is ever cut and dried and easy to lay out in a single cause. But let's not kid ourselves that slavery wasn't the main overwhelming catalyst and cause. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:03:35 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sure it was more like summer camp.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Seriously? You come on here talking about all the cop hate and then you put his on here about slavers raping and torturing slaves on concentration camps. I hope this was a try at humor and not your true opinion. Well, they didn't buy them just to gas them. The cotton doesn't walk itself out of the field when all the hands are buried. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:04:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That the perpetual union aspect of the US was widely understood, that legal wrangling over it was de rigueur among secessionists in that era, and that therefore they applied some minor "tweaks." So widely understood that the USA had two secession crises before the actual secession crisis that kicked off the civil war. Tell me... does the 10th amendment mean what it says? Was the power of self-determination, so far as association with the Union went, ceded by the States to the Federal government through the US Constitution? Or was it retained by the States by a lack of that explicit cession and reaffirmation in the 10th amendment? |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:04:06 PM EDT
[#42]
The first civil war was fought so Southerners could live in their own nation, free from the malignant political influence of empty headed Yanks who sound like queers.
The second civil war will be fought for the same reason. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:05:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'll never hear me say that the north wasn't/isn't as racist themselves, especially today. But the war was fought over slavery. Plain and simple. Were their other factors? Of course...no war is ever cut and dried and easy to lay out in a single cause. But let's not kid ourselves that slavery wasn't the main overwhelming catalyst and cause. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I love it when Southerners argue it was about State's Rights. While technically true, I wonder which of those rights besides slavery those Southern states all decided to secede and fight a war over. ETA: Want to let everyone know how many blacks were killed in racist antiwar riots in Northern states during the war? The fact is that "tolerant" Yankees burned churches and strung up free black men like Christmas ornaments all over New York in protest to the war. They even burned down a black orphanage, something that I have never heard of "evil" Confederates doing. You'll never hear me say that the north wasn't/isn't as racist themselves, especially today. But the war was fought over slavery. Plain and simple. Were their other factors? Of course...no war is ever cut and dried and easy to lay out in a single cause. But let's not kid ourselves that slavery wasn't the main overwhelming catalyst and cause. money and power, under the cover of slavery. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:06:16 PM EDT
[#44]
I graduated in 1998, and my high school American history teacher told us about how Raymond Burr shot Alexander Hamilton, and he refused to be corrected.
Who gives a shit about what they teach in high school history? Most of y'all forgot what the hell was said before you even got home the same day. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:06:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You'll never hear me say that the north wasn't/isn't as racist themselves, especially today. But the war was fought over slavery. Plain and simple. Were their other factors? Of course...no war is ever cut and dried and easy to lay out in a single cause. But let's not kid ourselves that slavery wasn't the main overwhelming catalyst and cause. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tenth Amendment and the inherent freedom of association. Not to even mention that slavery wasn't unconstitutional at the time of the war nor was it abolished until a kangaroo legislature could be appointed long after the end of the war. ETA: Want to let everyone know how many blacks were killed in racist antiwar riots in Northern states during the war? The fact is that "tolerant" Yankees burned churches and strung up free black men like Christmas ornaments all over New York in protest to the war. They even burned down a black orphanage, something that I have never heard of "evil" Confederates doing. You'll never hear me say that the north wasn't/isn't as racist themselves, especially today. But the war was fought over slavery. Plain and simple. Were their other factors? Of course...no war is ever cut and dried and easy to lay out in a single cause. But let's not kid ourselves that slavery wasn't the main overwhelming catalyst and cause. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:06:59 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The first civil war was fought so Southerners could live in their own nation, free from the malignant political influence of empty headed Yanks who sound like queers. The second civil war will be fought for the same reason. If what we call the civil war actually was a civil war, then it wasn't the first. It was the second. The first was fought by the 13 colonies turned States when they declared independence from Britain. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:07:48 PM EDT
[#47]
OP - to answer your question, I attended a 'normal' public school in a non-Southern state and then a 'top-tier' private school in a Northeastern state. At public school, I was taught that it was about slavery. At private school, we spent a lot more time on the subject and learned about some of the other underlying causes, including the massive cultural difference between the North and South during that time period.
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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:09:27 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yep, even a few guys on here that believe that at Nascar races.
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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:10:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It plays much better than teaching states rights, legal succession, and limited government. |
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Posted: 10/29/2013 6:12:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Took them 4 years to do it. If the South had the same manufacturing ability and the number of citizens, we would be standing to Dixie at Nascar races. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
yep, even a few guys on here that believe that The CSA would probably be just as fucked up as the USA is today if it had been able to successfully defend itself during the civil war. |
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