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Posted: 11/1/2009 3:24:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Very old dupe. How old? Y'all ain't been here that long! Anyway...first I saw of this test video. I'm looking for answers. Do any of you real pros seen anything wrong with the way HK did the test? FTR...I tend to believe it was just the design of the M4 that caused it to kaboom. Water does not compress and the water in the gas tube had nowhere to go. Agree? Did the gas tube explode? No? How did ANY THING in the gas tube cause the case head to fail? From that video you can tell it had casehead separation with the bolt still in the BBL extension? Clearly over-pressure in the chamber. It will do that when the pressure exceeds the UTS of the 3/4 hard case head, causing the brass to flow. Minor excessive pressure causes case head flow into the extractor cut and ejector plunger tunnel. Severe pressure causes ultimate failure. The web flows, thinning the chamber radius making it look like a case head separation. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 3:25:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Would you snot-sucking Dupetards go do something serious & real like digging the fucking beans out of your fucking chili. IF IT'S A FUCKING DUPE THEN DON'T FUCKING CLICK ON THE FUCKING DUPED FUCKING THREAD YOU FUCKING REDUNDANT FUCKING FUCKTARDS...! Carry on... If you want sloppy joes just make sloppy joe. Don't ruin chili by pulling the beans out of it. 
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Posted: 11/1/2009 3:33:26 PM EDT
[#3]
I doubt any rifle can withstand firing with the barrel full of water. If the H&K survived it was because the barrel had at least partially drained prior to firing.
The above applies to rifle cartridges not carbines. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 3:44:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Welp looking at the video and pausing it about 10 times you can clearly see the gas tube is intact and the key is still attached to the carrier.
The carrier looks like it has retracted enough to vent. So yep –––––––––––––––––––– the logical conclusion would be casehead failure with the "well vented" high pressure gas being released into the receiver. Hey man this is a fuckin dupe...!  ...
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Posted: 11/1/2009 3:50:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: I doubt any rifle can withstand firing with the barrel full of water. If the H&K survived it was because the barrel had at least partially drained prior to firing. The above applies to rifle cartridges not carbines. The HK has a MUCH larger throat diameter which vents gas AHEAD of the bullet, gas in the 2000 PSI range. This clears the bore of water. But ruins accuracy. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 3:51:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Would you snot-sucking Dupetards go do something serious & real like digging the fucking beans out of your fucking chili. IF IT'S A FUCKING DUPE THEN DON'T FUCKING CLICK ON THE FUCKING DUPED FUCKING THREAD YOU FUCKING REDUNDANT FUCKING FUCKTARDS...! Carry on... Dupe....
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Posted: 11/1/2009 3:55:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
What the fuck does turning this site into a perputal groundhog day have to do with anything either? Why don't we discuss 1911 vs Glock, 45acp vs 9mm and AK-47 vs M-16 too while we are at it? It's only "groundhog day" if you keep posting over and over again in the dupe threads. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 3:58:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What the fuck does turning this site into a perputal groundhog day have to do with anything either? Why don't we discuss 1911 vs Glock, 45acp vs 9mm and AK-47 vs M-16 too while we are at it? It's only "groundhog day" if you keep posting over and over again in the dupe threads. Its already a dupe or did that point go 'zip' over your head? Hard to dupe a dupe. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:03:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Who cares if it is a dupe? It is a BOGUS demonstration and the falsehoods HK is promoting in that video need to be dispelled.
There are a few here that think water in a gas tube will cause the case head to fail, that is a shame. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:09:00 PM EDT
[#10]
water blocking the gas tube would just cause a failure to cycle or short cycle
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:12:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What the fuck does turning this site into a perputal groundhog day have to do with anything either? Why don't we discuss 1911 vs Glock, 45acp vs 9mm and AK-47 vs M-16 too while we are at it? It's only "groundhog day" if you keep posting over and over again in the dupe threads. Its already a dupe or did that point go 'zip' over your head? Hard to dupe a dupe. Your reference to groundhog day alludes to reliving something over and over again ad nauseam. In this case it would seem to be self inflicted since you decided to post multiple comments including it being a dupe. By the way I agree with your technical observations, looks like a rigged test. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:20:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Step 1) Identify an overcomplicated way in which competitors product can be induced to fail
Step 2) Design test in which this failure will be inevitable Step 3) Present test as some sort of objective, real life scenario when in fact it is quite a stretch and extremely biased Step 4) Hope to profit |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:21:12 PM EDT
[#13]
I handled a full auto HK416 while working for MSAR. It was cool!
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:22:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Step 1) Identify an overcomplicated way in which competitors product can be induced to fail Step 2) Design test in which this failure will be inevitable Step 3) Present test as some sort of objective, real life scenario when in fact it is quite a stretch and extremely biased Step 4) Hope to profit Yep. If they wanted a credible test, they could have just paid a respected third-party like HP White Labs to run it. They may not have liked the results, however. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:25:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Step 1) Identify an overcomplicated way in which competitors product can be induced to fail Step 2) Design test in which this failure will be inevitable Step 3) Present test as some sort of objective, real life scenario when in fact it is quite a stretch and extremely biased Step 4) Hope to profit Yep. If they wanted a credible test, they could have just paid a respected third-party like HP White Labs to run it. They may not have liked the results, however. In a world of compromises, we started with our magazine ad QC, then followed with our integrity. What should we compromise on next? |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:29:08 PM EDT
[#16]
The M4 got owned! Thats what happens when the contract winner goes to the lowest bidder.
I'm sure if it were a mini 14. People would be laughing you get what you pay for. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:32:36 PM EDT
[#17]
What is "trough" technology? (at the end of the video)
Couldn't do Test B and test C is bullshit. I am thinking HK could afford to buy two more Colts. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:33:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: The word "rigged" comes to mind. This was a biased test. Here is another question - how many here have actually ever seen or handled or shot a HK416 in person? I would guess less than 1% Many times. I'll stick with my Colt. Thanks.  |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:38:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
The M4 got owned! Thats what happens when the contract winner goes to the lowtest bidder. I'm sure if it were a mini 14. People would be laughing you get what you pay for. Do you seriously think the conditions to which that Colt were exposed had any real life application? Has there even been ONE example of a failure of that sort anywhere in the world where such rifles have been in operation with multiple countries? |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 5:16:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
The M4 got owned! Thats what happens when the contract winner goes to the lowtest bidder. I'm sure if it were a mini 14. People would be laughing you get what you pay for. Apparently you don't know what you are talking about but you posted anyways. seems to be a serious problem around here. 
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Posted: 11/1/2009 5:17:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
The M4 got owned! Thats what happens when the contract winner goes to the lowtest bidder. I'm sure if it were a mini 14. People would be laughing you get what you pay for. Yep, you are right, you get what you pay for.....NOT!!! |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 5:19:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The word "rigged" comes to mind. This was a biased test. Here is another question - how many here have actually ever seen or handled or shot a HK416 in person? I would guess less than 1% Many times. I'll stick with my Colt. Thanks.
I agree. My only point was that most of the people who think the HK is the super gun of the future have never even seen one. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 5:40:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The M4 got owned! Thats what happens when the contract winner goes to the lowtest bidder. I'm sure if it were a mini 14. People would be laughing you get what you pay for. Do you seriously think the conditions to which that Colt were exposed had any real life application? Has there even been ONE example of a failure of that sort anywhere in the world where such rifles have been in operation with multiple countries? OH Booool sheeet!! What about Aquabumping huh? As an olde tyme member you must know the famous incident where an arfcommer had insulted an anteaters mother and then had to save his own life by bumpfiring underwater?? (i assume he was underwater because the ferocious anteater had thrown him there, i dunno.) But what about that huh? Think you're all smart and shit! |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 5:42:46 PM EDT
[#24]
This Rifle is More Reliable than an M4
It works well in Sand, Dust, Mud, and Water...it is Combat Proven over more years than the AR It offers greater Penetration Power than the M4, its cheaper to produce and maintain...in fact it requires less maintenance than an AK. It makes for a superior Club for Butt Swiping... |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 5:46:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Would you snot-sucking Dupetards go do something serious & real like digging the fucking beans out of your fucking chili. IF IT'S A FUCKING DUPE THEN DON'T FUCKING CLICK ON THE FUCKING DUPED FUCKING THREAD YOU FUCKING REDUNDANT FUCKING FUCKTARDS...! Carry on... 
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Posted: 11/1/2009 7:08:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
This Rifle is More Reliable than an M4 http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0S020z0Ru5KwjUBojqjzbkF/SIG=12ft9f38v/EXP=1257216116/**http%3A//blog.lib.umn.edu/deg/campfire/images/Lee-Enfield.jpg It works well in Sand, Dust, Mud, and Water...it is Combat Proven over more years than the AR It offers greater Penetration Power than the M4, its cheaper to produce and maintain...in fact it requires less maintenance than an AK. It makes for a superior Club for Butt Swiping... I guess we should ditch our current small arms to replace them with a WWII low cap bolt action 
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Posted: 11/1/2009 7:36:11 PM EDT
[#27]
very interesting. In the first test, he allowed the HK to drain for about 4 seconds and the Colt for about 1. Think it might have made a difference?
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Posted: 11/1/2009 7:45:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Is the m4 submerged with the bolt open? If so, why? My guess would be to avoid an air pocket and ensure the barrel fills with water unlike the HK which was submerged with the bolt closed. The short amount of time to drain the barrel would favor one that was less filled.
Of course I could just be seeing things. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 9:32:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The M4 got owned! Thats what happens when the contract winner goes to the lowtest bidder. I'm sure if it were a mini 14. People would be laughing you get what you pay for. Apparently you don't know what you are talking about but you posted anyways. seems to be a serious problem around here. Oh yeah, Our troops are supplied with the best stuff money can buy! Even if we cant supply enough armor? |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 9:42:49 PM EDT
[#30]
A test by HK? Of COURSE it's rigged.
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Posted: 11/1/2009 9:45:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Finally, a gun built for the discerning aqua-bumper.
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Posted: 11/2/2009 5:00:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Does look like the test was rigged. Some of the [technical] answers are very good. Thanks.
I'll stick with my M4Gery. |
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Posted: 11/2/2009 5:38:09 AM EDT
[#33]
A french man in a wet suit is not taking my M4 away.
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Posted: 11/2/2009 6:11:52 AM EDT
[#34]
The M4 failed because the cartridges were loaded into the magazine backwards.
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Posted: 11/2/2009 6:24:15 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Would you snot-sucking Dupetards go do something serious & real like digging the fucking beans out of your fucking chili. IF IT'S A FUCKING DUPE THEN DON'T FUCKING CLICK ON THE FUCKING DUPED FUCKING THREAD YOU FUCKING REDUNDANT FUCKING FUCKTARDS...! Carry on... THIS MOTHER BITCHES!!!! |
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Posted: 11/2/2009 6:32:40 AM EDT
[#36]
For some perspective on how much mass water adds to the effective bullet weight here are some numbers.
In a 5.56 mm barrel 5.75 inches of water weighs 55 grains, same as standard ball round. So in a 11.5 inch barrel full of water the cartridge is effectively loaded with a 165 grain bullet. In a 16 inch barrel the effective weight is over 200 grains. Peak pressure for the 223 is at ~ 3 inches of bullet travel so not much water will be pushed from the barrel before peak pressure is reached, heavier bullets reach peak pressure sooner so the real effect is peak pressure very early on. Anyone think they can pull a bullet from a standard 55grain round and replace it with a 165 grain bullet and not blow up the gun? Test was BS |
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Posted: 11/2/2009 6:47:58 AM EDT
[#37]
I didnt not watch, but if it is of the HK416 and M4 being shot by a wetsuit wearing french man ....
Note the barrel flick used to throw the water from the barrel. H&K hires such pussies that they have to wear wet suits. Our special Ops guys go full commando in the frigid oceans and those french mutherfuckers wear wetsuits while rolling around in some mud puddle. |
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Posted: 11/2/2009 7:07:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
The M4 failed because the cartridges were loaded into the magazine backwards. Figures... 
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Posted: 11/2/2009 1:07:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The M4 got owned! Thats what happens when the contract winner goes to the lowtest bidder. I'm sure if it were a mini 14. People would be laughing you get what you pay for. Apparently you don't know what you are talking about but you posted anyways. seems to be a serious problem around here. Oh yeah, Our troops are supplied with the best stuff money can buy! Even if we cant supply enough armor? You sure told me........... |
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Posted: 11/2/2009 1:12:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
This Rifle is More Reliable than an M4 http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0S020z0Ru5KwjUBojqjzbkF/SIG=12ft9f38v/EXP=1257216116/**http%3A//blog.lib.umn.edu/deg/campfire/images/Lee-Enfield.jpg It works well in Sand, Dust, Mud, and Water...it is Combat Proven over more years than the AR It offers greater Penetration Power than the M4, its cheaper to produce and maintain...in fact it requires less maintenance than an AK. It makes for a superior Club for Butt Swiping... The ANZACs complained about the reliability of the SMLE during Galipoli. |
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Posted: 11/2/2009 1:13:29 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Oh yeah, Our troops are supplied with the best stuff money can buy! Even if we cant supply enough armor? What armor are we missing? |
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Posted: 11/2/2009 1:25:19 PM EDT
[#42]
H&K wouldnt slant a test in their favor
, thats just not ethical. So what ever came out of the problems the 416's really had?
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Posted: 11/2/2009 1:28:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Would you snot-sucking Dupetards go do something serious & real like digging the fucking beans out of your fucking chili. IF IT'S A FUCKING DUPE THEN DON'T FUCKING CLICK ON THE FUCKING DUPED FUCKING THREAD YOU FUCKING REDUNDANT FUCKING FUCKTARDS...! Carry on... 8/10 |
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Posted: 11/2/2009 1:38:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I doubt any rifle can withstand firing with the barrel full of water. If the H&K survived it was because the barrel had at least partially drained prior to firing. The above applies to rifle cartridges not carbines. The HK has a MUCH larger throat diameter which vents gas AHEAD of the bullet, gas in the 2000 PSI range. This clears the bore of water. But ruins accuracy. How much larger is the throat? I've heard good things about the accuracy. SMGLee did a review of the 14.5 416 and the LMT piston gun and said they grouped the same. |
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Posted: 11/2/2009 1:51:05 PM EDT
[#45]
In the video they fired the HK416 with the gun completely submerged. That is quit a testament to the durability of that weapon.
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Posted: 11/2/2009 2:26:25 PM EDT
[#46]
If you guys would quit arguing over whether or not it's OK to post videos that have been posted before, I for one am getting a lot out of the discussion of what actually happened in the video.
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Posted: 11/2/2009 2:44:28 PM EDT
[#47]
It has no go-fast switch
Quoted:
This Rifle is More Reliable than an M4 http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0S020z0Ru5KwjUBojqjzbkF/SIG=12ft9f38v/EXP=1257216116/**http%3A//blog.lib.umn.edu/deg/campfire/images/Lee-Enfield.jpg It works well in Sand, Dust, Mud, and Water...it is Combat Proven over more years than the AR It offers greater Penetration Power than the M4, its cheaper to produce and maintain...in fact it requires less maintenance than an AK. It makes for a superior Club for Butt Swiping... |
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Posted: 11/2/2009 3:20:08 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: In the video they fired the HK416 with the gun completely submerged. That is quit a testament to the durability of that weapon. How accurate is THAT carbine? Rigged test. |
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Posted: 11/2/2009 4:02:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
In the video they fired the HK416 with the gun completely submerged. That is quit a testament to the durability of that weapon. Yea...I noticed that too and it did seem to indicate a certain robustness of the HK. That said, I still believe they salted the test.
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Posted: 11/2/2009 4:11:17 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
It has no go-fast switch Quoted:
This Rifle is More Reliable than an M4 http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0S020z0Ru5KwjUBojqjzbkF/SIG=12ft9f38v/EXP=1257216116/**http%3A//blog.lib.umn.edu/deg/campfire/images/Lee-Enfield.jpg It works well in Sand, Dust, Mud, and Water...it is Combat Proven over more years than the AR It offers greater Penetration Power than the M4, its cheaper to produce and maintain...in fact it requires less maintenance than an AK. It makes for a superior Club for Butt Swiping... Hell yeah it does. There is a trick where if your bolt smooth you can work it with your first three fingers and fire it with your ring or pinky finger. The Brits did it all the time. |
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