The sheer volume of complete and total unadulterated brain-dead ignorance and flat out BULLSHIT the shotgun generates.

Quoted: Quoted: "Etch a cross/x/star in the tip of the bullet to make it expand/explode."  Had a Marine tell me that one. Oh, I hate that one. A friend called such a round a "dumdum" or some such bullshit. It does no good to argue with these guys.

Maybe do a little research before arguing?

Start with this link.

After the Hague convention outlawed their use, individual troops would still try to emulate the performance by cutting the bullet tip with a cross.

Whether this really works as a JHP or not I don't know -- but my guess is that it just might.

How about one that drives my wife crazy -

"I'm not going to buy another gun for a while, I'm going to work on improving what I already have."

I guess I'm a little flexible on the definition of "a while".

Quoted: The sheer volume of complete and total unadulterated brain-dead ignorance and flat out BULLSHIT the shotgun generates.

You've got a point there. The shotgun is probably the subject of more myths than any other weapon. I'm sure there's a good reason for it.

Banning guns will reduce crime.




Nobody has ever been able to logically support THAT one under real world conditions!


CJ

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "Etch a cross/x/star in the tip of the bullet to make it expand/explode."  Had a Marine tell me that one. Oh, I hate that one. A friend called such a round a "dumdum" or some such bullshit. It does no good to argue with these guys. Maybe do a little research before arguing? Start with this link. After the Hague convention outlawed their use, individual troops would still try to emulate the performance by cutting the bullet tip with a cross. Whether this really works as a JHP or not I don't know -- but my guess is that it just might.

Carving a cross into a bullet does not a dum-dum make. I'm well aware that people (troops included) think it actually makes for a decent expanding bullet. IT DOESN'T. The myth is just that - a myth, and it's bullshit. That's all I'm saying. What I'm telling you is that individual troops (and my misonformed buddy) are/were wasting their time.

And on top of it all, they're dulling their pocket knives. It's a lose-lose.

Quoted: How about one that drives my wife crazy - "I'm not going to buy another gun for a while, I'm going to work on improving what I already have." I guess I'm a little flexible on the definition of "a while".

One of my favorite gun "myths"!
"I swear honey, this is the last one for a while."

Over 14 children are killed by gunfire in the USA every day!

Working for the National Park Service at an historic Revolutionary War site I hear them all from visitors and reenactors, esp. about smoothbore flintlock muskets.

"Ya can't hit the broadside of a barn with them"

=

Inside fifty yards, smoothbore muskets fired by practiced shooters are deadly and will hit a man-sized target. Outside of fifty yards, the guns are not as accurate. Inside their design range, watch out! They are not rifles, which were slower to load and generally not useful for 18th century combat.

"The minutemen used their Kentucky rifles to pick off British officers and hid behind trees."

=

The Minutemen and militia (there was a difference) used muskets and fowlers exclusively. There is no proof of anybody using rifles in New England at Lexington, Concord or Bunker Hill in 1775. There were few trees for hiding behind, since Massachusetts was all open farm fields and pasture, w/very low stone walls. Imagine fighting a war on a prairie, with short range guns- that's what it was like. The Minutemen mostly had little cover, which made their job harder, and their feat of winning all the more stunning.

Rifles made great PR, but won few battles outright in the American Revolution. However the myth of the Amurrican rifleman is more romantic than the cold harsh reality of guys in rags using muskets and bayonets to wrest their freedom away from Britain in eight looooong years of see-saw, back and forth warfare. The war didn’t end at Yorktown in 1781. It dragged on for two more years, esp. down south.

"The three-sided socket bayonet was banned by the Geneva Convention because it was deemed a cruel weapon since it made a three-sided stab wound, that was impossible to stitch up. The concave shape of the sides is to keep the bayonet from getting sucked in by the wound- they are called blood gutters."

=

I've read the Geneva Convention, the Hague Conventions, and other disarmament treaties, as have other researchers, and there is NO mention of three-sided bayonets in any of them. Zero, Zip, Nada, Zilch.

Fact was, three-sided bayonets were chosen for metallurgical and economy reasons. A three-sided, concave shape has more flexing strength that a solid square shape or knife blade. Knife blades don't flex, but I-beams or railroad rails do, all because of the latter shapes. Hit a bayonet full-tilt into a tree, and it will bend, and can be repaired. Cheaper that way, and saves money.

“Blood gutters”? No, just concave shapes that aid in flexing the metal of the bayonet in extreme stress situations.

“Cruel wounds”?    Doctors and surgeons were sewing up worse wounds than bayonet wounds for centuries long before then, and still do. Car accident victims who go through windshields, get ripped to shreds with deep, jagged wounds, but still get stitched up, in much the same way as they did two hundred years ago.

“Ya needed two opposing teeth to be allowed to be an infantryman.”

= Show me an original citation for that anyplace, and not one in some fiction writer’s febrile imagination…

Paper cartridges could be and were torn open with the fingers of the hand cradling the gun, while the loading hand held the cartridge steady. The flintlock pan was then primed in the usual manner. Try it some time, if you understand what I mean. Most armies then weren’t too particular in whom they took in as soldiers.

When you fired your musket, you turned your face away, and didn’t aim.

=

I saw this done in the godawful movie “The Patriot”. The extras did that, because the magnesium charges in the pans of the muskets (put there by the movie FX guys) were so blinding. In history, though, it was never officially done. If somebody has an original cite for that being done, I’d like to see it, but it was not in any drill manual or regulation in the period from Germany, France, England or America.

ETA: Where did thse myths come from? Civil War reenactors in the 1960s who were afraid to say "I don't know" when the public stumped them with questions. If ya can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with ! The legends grew bigger with the telling, and with nobody to contradict them, the lies became truths.

The myth that the .30 Carbine couldnt penetrate North Korean/Chinese parkas.

The myth that semi auto rifles recoil less because they have a "recoil" spring.

The myth that an AK-47 will function with its receiver full of gravel.

Quoted: Inspired by the M1 vs M14 thread: The one myth that drive me nuts is:   "The M1 Garand cannot be topped off or tactically reloaded." This is of coarse UNTRUE, as the garand can be topped off with the clip still in the rifle or you can simply hit the clip ejection button and load a fresh clip.

To be fair, there is SOME TRUTH to both of those statements.

I mean, technically it is possible to insert a single round into a partially emptied clip while it is in the rifle, but it is so difficult and cumbersome - and tactically unsound - that it would be extremely unlikely for anyone to actually do so.  So I agree that it's incorrect to say it cannot be done, but the reality is that it never really is done.

Furthermore, depending on what you mean by "factical reload" I think it IS accurate to say that it cannot be done on a garand.  To me, a tactical reload means that I can drop the mag on a rifle and load a new mag WHILE there is still a live round in the chamber, and without needing to work the operating/charging handle.  This is not possible on a Garand.  SO depending on what people mean by "tactical reload" the second statement is correct.

Sorry to be all anal, but as egregious gun myths go - I really don't think either of those are too bad.

All 1911s always need $600 worth of pistolsmithing out of the box before they are reliable and accurate.

Quoted: Sorry to be all anal, ......

Yeah.

That's so unlike you.

Quoted: Quoted: all these scenarios sound so familiar... like ive seen them tested somewhere. weird. Though i see there was something about shooting through an engine on here... any box of truth for that? Nope, but not because I didn't want to. I racked my brain on how I could get an engine block to the range, shoot it with various rounds, then haul it back to the junk yard. It would take a flat bed trailer, a lift, etc, and I'd have to be sure not to cause any damage to the range. But, bottom line, it's just too much trouble and expense and those of us that have shot engine blocks with the .357 Magnum already know the answer.

I got a block and a range, I just need a .357

Not really a myth but whenever I get to talking about guns near my sister she asks in a very condenscending tone "Are you talking about the semi-automatic machine guns?", "What do you hunt with those?"

What the hell is a semi-automatic machine gun and where can I buy them? Ill take 5!

This is the .308 round used in the in Ak47, the most common round in the world /future weapons

that there is a spot on every gun that if a ninja kicks it (or grabs the slide) will make the gun inoperable.  (as if the ninja can tell if its a gun that uses no guide rod and can hit the front of the slide to knock it out of bettery before you pull the trigger and blow his leg off.)

that if you plug the barrel with your finger elmer fudd gets it in the face.

an american tavor

"All gun owners are ignorant redneck slobs or criminals."
"Only the police and the military should have guns"
"A woman shouldn't own a gun because the bad guy will probably just take it away and use it on them." (just heard that one again last week, from two different women looking for firearms instruction. They both said thier mothers truly believe it)
"The second amendment only applies to the National Guard".

Quoted: This is the .308 round used in the in Ak47, the most common round in the world /future weapons

I have heard that at a class 3 shop, coming from thee class 3 dealer himself.  I was like wtf?  

The "Armor-Piercing" Black Talon Cop Killer!


Riiiight!!

Quoted: Quoted: all these scenarios sound so familiar... like ive seen them tested somewhere. weird. Though i see there was something about shooting through an engine on here... any box of truth for that? Nope, but not because I didn't want to. I racked my brain on how I could get an engine block to the range, shoot it with various rounds, then haul it back to the junk yard. It would take a flat bed trailer, a lift, etc, and I'd have to be sure not to cause any damage to the range. But, bottom line, it's just too much trouble and expense and those of us that have shot engine blocks with the .357 Magnum already know the answer.

Damn you, old_painless... now i want to know why you were shooting at engine blocks.

A few co-workers i know claim that their hunting rifle is so powerful that the deer do cartwheels when hit, because of the "knockdown power" I have been in some heated arguments over this one.
Ive shot many deer with a 7mag, 30.06 and a .270 and ive never had one go flying or cartwheel. Guess i need a Weatherby for that

1. "The only use for a handgun is to fight your way back to the rifle that you never should have put down."

2. Rifles with a pistol grip are designed to be fired from the hip.

3. You do not have to aim a shotgun.

4. AR-15 and AKMs are weapons of war whose only purpose is to kill alot of people very quickly.

And my favortie:

5. You can't hunt with an AKM.

You mean to tell me that none of this is true?  Oh my God!
j/k

The "glocks are invisible on airport xray machines becuase they are plastic/ceramic etc" even if it *was* all plastic and invisible, what about the bullets?

Colt rifles are no longer available to civilians
Colt no longer makes 1911s
Bushmaster makes M16s for the military
ARMS throw levers will break if you look at them sideways
All optics must have LaRue mounts or they won't hold zero
MIM parts must be replaced immediately or your 1911 will spontaneously combust
The Galil is better than the M16, which is why Israel only issues Galils to second-line units
Chinese AKs are crap
Condition 2 is a good way to carry a 1911
Condition 3 is a good way to carry any firearm
Guns can "just go off"
Owning NFA weapons means ATF can search your house without a warrant at any time
NFA weapons are illegal
No rifle suppressors are hearing safe
Being military/LE automatically makes you a firearms expert
Hunting with "assault weapons" is illegal
Non-NFA firearms are "registered", and this "registration" can be transferred when you sell a gun privately
Shooting reloads through a Glock is certain to cause a KB

I heard this dealer telling his customers why he doesnt like AW style firearms

he said "if it cant make a 1/2" inch group at 100 yards, I dont have any use for it, all they are good for are spraying and wasting ammo...."

you dont need high capacity magazines, if the son of a bitch cant hit a deer with rifle with a 5 rd mag, he shouldnt be hunting.

they always say if you cant hunt with it, why do you need a gun like that? it's useless

A 1911A1 delivers more 'knockdown power' than a full-power shot from SquatDog...

Quoted: A few co-workers i know claim that their hunting rifle is so powerful that the deer do cartwheels when hit, because of the "knockdown power" I have been in some heated arguments over this one. Ive shot many deer with a 7mag, 30.06 and a .270 and ive never had one go flying or cartwheel. Guess i need a Weatherby for that

well, maybe you just are shooting them in the wrong spot.  I suspect a 30.06 to the knee of a deer on the run might get a cartwheel effect.

Your probably doing something silly like shooting to kill.

Quoted: Damn you, old_painless... now i want to know why you were shooting at engine blocks.

Well, that's easy!

Because shooting stuff is fun.

ANY lame ass lib-tard comment relating guns to penises.

(Insert Professor Freud's famous quote here_________)

My favorite,
My (insert relation here) was in the ( army, navy, marines, air force, coast guard) and he was so good that they let him keep all his guns. He has machine guns and a bazooka. Or there is the variant, that because he was in the service he is now allowed to have any gun he wants, he has machine guns and stuff at his house. How the hell did this ever get started?

Quoted: A few co-workers i know claim that their hunting rifle is so powerful that the deer do cartwheels when hit, because of the "knockdown power" I have been in some heated arguments over this one. Ive shot many deer with a 7mag, 30.06 and a .270 and ive never had one go flying or cartwheel. Guess i need a Weatherby for that

Last season, opening day of rifle, a young buck steps out at around 60 yards. He is at a slight angle to me, facing me. I am elevated on a ridge about 10 feet above him.

I am shooting a NEF .243, Remington Core Lockt ammo, 100gr. The bullet enters the deer in front of his left shoulder, passes through the front of his chest, blowing out his lungs and stops at his right leg, just below his shoulder, breaking the leg in 2. This deer did a COMPLETE BACK FILP, yes a Complete back flip, I could not believe it, how I wish I had a cam with em that day.

Sorry to hijack.

I heard this one today and couldnt believe the retardousity (or is it retardicity?)

Black Talons are illegal becasue they are coated with black teflon so they go right through bulletproof vests.

me: theyre old and outdated and completely legal, but the winchester ranger le rounds are pretty much the same thing but much improved. and wtf is black teflon? and how does it help a bullet go through a vest?

them: no black talons are illegal and the teflon helps it "slide" through the vest. Black Talons make (name withheld to protect the stupid) .380 more powerful than a 45

me:  and you guys call yourselves gunners mates

Quoted: I heard this dealer telling his customers why he doesnt like AW style firearms he said "if it cant make a 1/2" inch group at 100 yards, I dont have any use for it, all they are good for are spraying and wasting ammo...." you dont need high capacity magazines, if the son of a bitch cant hit a deer with rifle with a 5 rd mag, he shouldnt be hunting. they always say if you cant hunt with it, why do you need a gun like that? it's useless

He probably does not know that, and like Larry Pratt said: "This is not about Duck hunting!"

You need permits to possess and transport that much ammo.  Personally owned ammo transported in my pickup.  Some guy who was a trucker wanted to see my placards and permits and asked if I was stopping at all the weigh stations.

10mm will go through people like a knife through butter.

You need an ffl to be someone who buys firearms and after shooting them for a while decides to trade or sell them to free up money for other things.

"I thought the government would prevent people from having something like that."  Said about an underfolder ak rifle in 7.62x39

Ammo in a fire is just like a round fired from a firearm.  Mostly movies.

The full auto stuff in movies that runs out of ammo but continues with full auto "clicks" to show it is out of ammo but still full auto.

Quoted: My favorite, My (insert relation here) was in the ( army, navy, marines, air force, coast guard) and he was so good that they let him keep all his guns. He has machine guns and a bazooka. Or there is the variant, that because he was in the service he is now allowed to have any gun he wants, he has machine guns and stuff at his house. How the hell did this ever get started?

I think some vets of WWII brought back captured weapons, some full-auto, as war trophies. Weren't they allowed to be added to the NFA registry? This might be the source of the latter of the two you mentioned.

Quoted: You need permits to possess and transport that much ammo.  Personally owned ammo transported in my pickup.  Some guy who was a trucker wanted to see my placards and permits and asked if I was stopping at all the weigh stations. 10mm will go through people like a knife through butter. You need an ffl to be someone who buys firearms and after shooting them for a while decides to trade or sell them to free up money for other things. "I thought the government would prevent people from having something like that."  Said about an underfolder ak rifle in 7.62x39 Ammo in a fire is just like a round fired from a firearm.  Mostly movies. The full auto stuff in movies that runs out of ammo but continues with full auto "clicks" to show it is out of ammo but still full auto.

From what I understand, that was actually true at one time.
ATF used to go after people for "dealing without a lisence" post GCA68 which is what lead to the rise in kitchen table FFLs.
During the Clinton years they shut down Kitchen table FFLs for not selling enough guns.

Quoted: Quoted: A few co-workers i know claim that their hunting rifle is so powerful that the deer do cartwheels when hit, because of the "knockdown power" I have been in some heated arguments over this one. Ive shot many deer with a 7mag, 30.06 and a .270 and ive never had one go flying or cartwheel. Guess i need a Weatherby for that Last season, opening day of rifle, a young buck steps out at around 60 yards. He is at a slight angle to me, facing me. I am elevated on a ridge about 10 feet above him. I am shooting a NEF .243, Remington Core Lockt ammo, 100gr. The bullet enters the deer in front of his left shoulder, passes through the front of his chest, blowing out his lungs and stops at his right leg, just below his shoulder, breaking the leg in 2. This deer did a COMPLETE BACK FILP, yes a Complete back flip, I could not believe it, how I wish I had a cam with em that day. Sorry to hijack.

Hmmmm.....if the deer did a complete back flip, how come you didn't do one as well, when you fired the gun? That's physics- for every action, there is a corresponding opposite reaction.

THIS HERE SHOT GUN



IS A REAL STREET SWEEPER (tm)

This does make me sick, have herd it to many times in a gun shops.

Cycling the slide on the shotgun will make a bad guy shit himself and run away scared if he hears it.

The gun went off while I was cleaning it   =   the gun went off when I squeezed the trigger with the safety off and round in the chamber.


Why do people always say the gun went off when they were cleaning it?  It's a dumb sounding obvious lie.


I don't care if they had it in a hydrosonic industrial tool bath, it's still the result of carelessness.

Quoted: A few co-workers i know claim that their hunting rifle is so powerful that the deer do cartwheels when hit, because of the "knockdown power" I have been in some heated arguments over this one. Ive shot many deer with a 7mag, 30.06 and a .270 and ive never had one go flying or cartwheel. Guess i need a Weatherby for that

^^^^^
BEST SO FAR IMHO.  Ahhhh "knockdown power" this will NEVER end, ever.  There will always be this knockdown power stuff.  I have to defend 9mm all the time, but I just gave up.  I just ask if I can shoot them - they never take me up on it.

I use a .338 Lapua for Deer (it's the only way to be sure) and get the cart wheel

Quoted: A few co-workers i know claim that their hunting rifle is so powerful that the deer do cartwheels when hit, because of the "knockdown power" I have been in some heated arguments over this one. Ive shot many deer with a 7mag, 30.06 and a .270 and ive never had one go flying or cartwheel. Guess i need a Weatherby for that

Yes, that is utter crap.

The deer went sprawling when it got shot.


If the gun was powerful enough to send a deer cartwheeling, it would send the guy shooting it cartwheeling also.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A few co-workers i know claim that their hunting rifle is so powerful that the deer do cartwheels when hit, because of the "knockdown power" I have been in some heated arguments over this one. Ive shot many deer with a 7mag, 30.06 and a .270 and ive never had one go flying or cartwheel. Guess i need a Weatherby for that Last season, opening day of rifle, a young buck steps out at around 60 yards. He is at a slight angle to me, facing me. I am elevated on a ridge about 10 feet above him. I am shooting a NEF .243, Remington Core Lockt ammo, 100gr. The bullet enters the deer in front of his left shoulder, passes through the front of his chest, blowing out his lungs and stops at his right leg, just below his shoulder, breaking the leg in 2. This deer did a COMPLETE BACK FILP, yes a Complete back flip, I could not believe it, how I wish I had a cam with em that day. Sorry to hijack. Hmmmm.....if the deer did a complete back flip, how come you didn't do one as well, when you fired the gun? That's physics- for every action, there is a corresponding opposite reaction.

Reflex response of the deer on bullet impact.

Believe it or not, it happened.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "Etch a cross/x/star in the tip of the bullet to make it expand/explode."  Had a Marine tell me that one. Oh, I hate that one. A friend called such a round a "dumdum" or some such bullshit. It does no good to argue with these guys. Let's see here: 1. File the sear 2. Rack the shotgun 3. .357 fired at the trunk will go all the way through the car and punch a hole in the engine block (one of my personal favorites) 4. .45 is too slow. You can step out of the way (theoretically true at 100 yds, I suppose but sheesh...you fist.) 5. .22 has killed more deer than any other round, therefore it's the perfect SHTF caliber. 6. First shell in the shotgun should be salt as a deterrent. Don't wanna kill him. 7. Actualy, the whole "progressivly worse" shell order thing is fucking retarted, now that I think about it. 8. Don't need to aim a shotgun. 9. Made by Mattel. 10. Designed to wound, because it takes more guys out of the fight...yada...yada...(Oh, how I hate this one). Wow....who the hell came up with that?

IIRC on an episode of "The RIFLEMAN" Marshal Micah Torrance says to LUCAS he uses ROCK SALT.   Even I don't wanna know why I remember that stupidity.

Quoted: The one that pisses me off the most is that more stringent gun laws will cut down on violent crime. When are they gonna learn that criminals don't give a flying fuck about the law. Thats why they're criminals!

Yea, what he said.

I don't know about .357, but a 50 Beowulf will definetly put holes in an engine block.

"14,000 children have been killed this year alone by school shootings"  heard that the other day.