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Link Posted: 4/28/2001 6:59:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AFARR:
I may have missed it, but has anyone bothered to ask exactly what kind of "jams" happened?

1.  Didn't extract the fired round.
2.  Didn't eject the fired round.
3.  Didn't load a new round.
4.  Tried to double feed.

etc.

One thing, I think I did not see mentioned is loading one round only (manually or from the mag), have an empty mag in the mag well after the first one is loaded and see if it A. Locks back after the one round is fired or B. if it fails to extract/eject.  Once you do that, repeat with no mag in the mag well, and see if it extracts and ejects.

I am wondering if by stretching the mag, it is dragging on the bolt and keeping it from loading properly.

AFARR
View Quote


The Olympic would eject the spent case but wouldn't chamber another.Bolt closed & locked but no live round in chamber. I could manually pull the bolt carrier all the way back & let it go. It stripped 1 round from the mag no problem...just won't do it by itself..."short-stroke" I think it's called.

The Carbon-15 would "stovepipe" It peels a new round from the mag, but the spent case hasn't fully ejected...so, the bolt/carrier try to close with the empty case sitting sideways in the reciever...

To answer the other guys question about when the last cleaning was...

I just cleaned them all last night before bed...I'm positive the problems are not dirt related, I am very fussy about keeping my stuff clean, lubed and free of fingerprints.    
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 7:07:39 PM EDT
1 post ban Bushmaster xm-15e2 rifle.
6 USGI mags and 3 thermolds all loaded at different sub-capacities.
400 rds of wolf steel cased .223 55gr FMJ
.....no cleaning.........................



ZERO FAILURES!!!!!!!!!!!!


had a Hesse once that jammed ever round/failed to chamber new round.......coars thats just because it was a hesse.  [:D]
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 7:13:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By QCMGR:
Originally Posted By dragracerart:
Originally Posted By QCMGR:
Never had a jam with my issue M-16 or with my AR’s.  Sounds like operator error.  
View Quote


I don't have any "issue" M-16's, nor, do I have your AR. I suppose if I did, I wouldn't have started this topic...

The goddamn guns don't shoot,...period. Has nothing to do with my shooting or a lack of mechanical knowledge. Being an Industrial Maintenance Mechanic, Machinist, Certified Welder, and Electrician, I believe I am a little more mechanically inclined than the average shooter...(not to flame anybody,only my opinion)  

Time to trade on something better/more reliable out of the box... any suggestions ???
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You then should be familiar with root cause analysis.  Did the rifles work before they began to fail or were they always defective?  If they did work, what changed?  How often do you have a press or a piece of production equipment  “just stop working”?  You are familiar with machines; do a fish bone diagram to identify the failure mode.  I have seen a bad magazine or two in my day.  But to have two rifles from two manufactures fail at the same time with the same failure mode makes me wonder what happened.
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Please read my reply just before this one...the problems with the two guns are different and unrelated . Now that I think about it, I should have tried the Orlites in the Oly and the USGI's in the CAR-15....I'll clean them again tonight & try again tomorrow...the range is only a 1/2 mile from my home...NICE...[:)]
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 7:16:55 PM EDT
I've had mine fail like your Oly and it was related to a bad mag (switched to GI with green follower) mag was a colt 9 rounder and also when my bolt was not lubed, I had wiped all excess lubrication off. Now I lube the bolt well before going to shoot.
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 7:17:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dragracerart:

Anyone here ever have an AR-15 that NEVER jammed ????
..........I don't think so
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Think again dragracecart -

I have a CAR that I built from a Model 1 kit on an EA lower and have yet to have the first jam with various ammo and various mags used.

Not one jam from a brand new build..... there ya go!

[sniper]
The Sniper
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 7:24:22 PM EDT
If the Oly was short stroking it could be an ammo issue.

-bob
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 7:24:25 PM EDT
dragracerart...

It does sound like your problem is mag related.

If the same type of jams are occuring in both ARs, that is where I would look first.

[sniper]
The Sniper
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 7:28:27 PM EDT
Just read first post...
Question all your MALF were with the .223 you were using maybe you got a bad lot of ammo. Maybe powder charge was too low not allowing the guns to cycle properly. I bought a bad lot off 22's one time and my 10-22 kept jamming so after I broke the rifle down and cleaned it the same thing happened until I switched the ammo I was using then the problem went away.I would test that theory everytime if I have have a jam. i put about 1,000 rounds through my 2 AR's and not one jam.  
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 7:29:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kevin@AR15com_1&2:
Originally Posted By Bigshooter:
These will in all liklihood be alluminum with a grey powder coat, unless you got Labelle which I think they are steel.
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Labelle mags are std. USGI aluminum mags.  Labelle did do run of teflon coated aluminum mags but that was not for the military.

Dragracerart, don't sell the guns yet give both rifles a good cleaning and in the meantime go over to the Equip. Exchange forum and purchase one new Thermold AR mag.  When you get that mag insert into your both rifles empty and work the bolts back and forth numerous times for break-in.  Load that mag up and use it in each rifle on your next range visit and then let us know what happens.

How rough do these mags look that you have?  Do you have a USGI 20rd. mag?
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Will take your advice...time to try another brand mag...But, the USGI's I have, really look good. I never tried a 20 rounder, are they more dependable ? I sorta don't think it's the mags, the CAR-15 worked good for a while, then started giving me trouble, The Olympic has never been 100 % Last weekend I had no trouble with it at all (150rds) until I tried crappy ammo. So, today I used the same ammo that worked in it last weekend, only now,that ammo doesn't fix my problems...
Really thinking of trading this one in on a NEW complete FACTORY assembled rifle.
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 7:46:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dragracerart:

Anyone here ever have an AR-15 that NEVER jammed ????
..........I don't think so
View Quote


I know I should knock on wood but I have well over 6000 rounds through my CAR and the only malfunctions have been those I set up to practice clearing them.


Hunter out...
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 7:53:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Beagles747:
Just read first post...
Question all your MALF were with the .223 you were using maybe you got a bad lot of ammo. Maybe powder charge was too low not allowing the guns to cycle properly. I bought a bad lot off 22's one time and my 10-22 kept jamming so after I broke the rifle down and cleaned it the same thing happened until I switched the ammo I was using then the problem went away.I would test that theory everytime if I have have a jam. i put about 1,000 rounds through my 2 AR's and not one jam.  
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The ammo I used in the .223 AK-47 was not the same ammo as I had in the AR's. The AK-47 problems are definately magazine problems...using converted 5.45 mags with VEPR .223 followers... Also, my .223 AK had problems with bolt / mag clearence , so I have a little more work to do on the .223 AK till it's right. I was expecting trouble with that gun, cause it was a mess whenI got it. I'm pretty sure that one's eventually getting traded on another 7.62 AK. I'm tired of foolin with it. Besides, I used this same ammo a week ago, and it worked good for a few hundred rounds in both AR's. Actually, my troubles started last weekend toward the end of my range session, but I figured the guns just needed cleaning. So, last night I gave them a thorough cleaning & figured they would work fine today...Not so...My troubles just picked up, where they left off last weekend...I don't know what the hell happened ????  
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 8:10:57 PM EDT
So you say the CAR-15 was pretty reliable and the OLY was kinda reliable???

That is until they BOTH started having multiple FTF/FTE problems??

Did the problems start before or after you stretched the magazine springs??

Did the problems start before or after you replaced the gas rings?

Why do you take multiple rifles to the range?? Pick 1 and work with it, Taking more than 1 malfunctioning rifle to the range is like asking for trouble and not expecting it to show up [>:/]

What ammo are you using?? Before you go back to the range get some reliable ammo, or verify that your ammo is good.

Get 1 good mag, use it when diagnosing the problems.

Have you cleaned out the gas port on the bolt carrier?? If you have before how did you?

How do you oil after cleaning?

Have you cleaned out the buffer tube?

Have you cleaned the bolt face?? How? How about the extractor, and the ejector?? How?

If these weapons were purchased and worked acceptably for a while and now are not working reliably why do you think that is??

Link Posted: 4/28/2001 8:19:30 PM EDT
mine has never jammed!!!

    [sniper]
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 8:28:01 PM EDT
I have an AR currently and used to have AK's.
I want to buy another AK!!!
The most important thing to me is a dependable gun.
The AK's are just more dependable. The mags are cheaper and sturdier.
I am having less of a problem with the gun than the AR mags. I think the mags are the biggest fault of the AR System. I totally baby my USGI and Orlite magazines and they work "most" of the time. (I could not imagine combat!)
The AK mags I used to let bang around and just treated them badly. I only ever had one bad AK mag, and I repaired it easily, and never had another problem.
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 8:52:26 PM EDT
Not to be a wise guy but how do you "baby" a magazine??

I think that the AR-15/M-16 will be more sensitive than a 7.62 weapon because the rounds are smaller so there is less tolerance to play with.

The AK is supposed to be real reliable,but you pay that, its less accurate then an AR-15. That 7.62x39 isn't 7.62x51 or 7.62x54.

the more accurate the less reliable, the more reliable the less accurate..... or something like that.  
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 8:59:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SS109:
I have an AR currently and used to have AK's.
I want to buy another AK!!!
The most important thing to me is a dependable gun.
The AK's are just more dependable. The mags are cheaper and sturdier.
I am having less of a problem with the gun than the AR mags. I think the mags are the biggest fault of the AR System. I totally baby my USGI and Orlite magazines and they work "most" of the time. (I could not imagine combat!)
The AK mags I used to let bang around and just treated them badly. I only ever had one bad AK mag, and I repaired it easily, and never had another problem.
View Quote


"The most important thing to me is a reliable gun"......  
DITTO.......that is why I take more then 1 gun to the range...To learn what works & what doesn't ....I can swap a mag that doesn't work in one gun to another to verify mag problems...last weekend the CAR-15 started to mess up first, so I took the mag out & put it in the Oly and it worked fine, but that was at the end of the day & I figured the gun just needed cleaning. This weekend... same problems...only I didn't have the patience to f.ck with it. So, I'm glad I took 4 guns to the range, I go there to shoot...not overhaul guns. If the gun doesn't work after trying different mags/ammo, It gets put back in the truck & I move on to the next gun. Luckily I had 4 with me...only 1 worked 100 % & that was my WUM1 7.62 AK-47. I needed to vent some frustration & this was the purrrrfect gun for it. 'Lemme see somebody rattle off 250 rounds in 5-10 minutes with an AR... The 'friggin thing would melt or jam...Probably have better luck throwing bullets by hand. I need to trade my AR's on FACTORY BUILT military style AR's. The used Oly is probably just wore out (no odometer) and the CAR-15 seems too Fragile...It has nice parts & components but I guess they're not a reliable combo...Thinking about 2 Bushmasters maybe ???    
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 9:10:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MindHunter:
Originally Posted By dragracerart:

Anyone here ever have an AR-15 that NEVER jammed ????
..........I don't think so
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I know I should knock on wood but I have well over 6000 rounds through my CAR and the only malfunctions have been those I set up to practice clearing them.


Hunter out...
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Practicing for a jam ??? Did you anticipate one ??? If I was concerned about a jam I wouldn't practice to correct it, I would buy a more reliable gun...[:)]  
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 9:24:27 PM EDT
Just asking - why did you get the one pice gas rings?  Were you having a problem?  The three normal rings should be fine.  I am not that familiar with the carbon 15, so I'll not comment, except to say that I have heard that this is a fun/range rifle and is not to be used as a duty/shtf rifle.  I don't know how broken in these weapons are, but if they don't have 2-300 rounds through them, I wouldn't consider them broken in.  Clean the rifles well (brake cleaner) and lube with clp (break free).  Make sure the bolt and locking lugs are lubed well.  Make sure the chamber and lugs are clean with a GI type brush.  Are the chambers on these rifles 5.56 mil-spec?  If not, the tighter SAMMI chamber might be contributing to your problem - good luck.

Tate


FYI - Labelle mags are USGI contract aluminum - good mags.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 12:18:43 AM EDT
MindHunter is referring to the practice of preparing for the worst. To a man in combat, a jammed weapon is a death sentence, and since your life depends on that weapon, you had BETTER be prepared should your weapon decide to go tits-up. Practicing clearing a jammed weapon in a hurry is only common sense.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 1:16:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dragracerart: Well, after it jammed 6-7 times with 3 different mags, I told them I'd let them shoot the CAR-15.  I tried it first and....same shit, stovepipes and failure to eject.
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I hate to ask, but can you say cleaned AND oiled
[:D]
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 2:05:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dragracerart:


Practicing for a jam ??? Did you anticipate one ??? If I was concerned about a jam I wouldn't practice to correct it, I would buy a more reliable gun...[:)]  
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Despite your claim otherwise, I now share the belief of an earlier poster that you are here on a trolling expedition. The jam-o-matic rhetoric is obvious. You readily speak of many AR myths that anti-AR people love to tout: fragility of mags (bullshit), need for pristine cleanliness (bullshit), etc. You then seem to hope to get your biases verified through this post, by acting like "one of us." Did you send your AK buddies a link to the thread to get a good laugh?

For the record: I have been in the Army over 8 years, and have never had a jam with an issue rifle unless firing blanks. I have had the occasional failure to feed (usually the second to last round) due to bad magazines. Those magazines didn't "become bad" because of any fragility issue. They were likely always bad or had something unusual done to them. Magazines get ABUSED. If they were as fragile as you imply then no surplus mags would work worth a shit. Instead, surplus GI mags are usually much more reliable than new shit mags. Watch how soldiers/marines treat their gear in the field and you will see their is no "babying" of mags. I put over 1,000 rounds through the several issue rifles ion short periods of time and on sandy, dusty ranges. The only cleaning I ever did (past tense - carry a pistol now) in the field is a wipedown and bolt scrub - takes me maybe five minutes unless the rifles been in the mud (then it takes some time, cuz I clean the outside to make it look perty again)

My personal AR has never jammed. This after many range sessions and with all kinds of ammo - factory to reload - unless testing known bad mags. I clean it - but nothing overly anal. It is anything but spotless.

Go ahead and continue to make fun of practicing for a jam. It just proves your ignorance.


Adam

Link Posted: 4/29/2001 2:16:10 AM EDT
I'll gladly dispose of those damn failure prone AR's, jsut send them to me.  Really though, what kind of jams were you having.  The only jams I've had with my AR was when I was using some cheap, laquer caoted steel cased ammo.  I determinded that the problem was with thes cases.  The laquer was kind of sticky and would not feed correctly from the mags.  SOLUTION:  Use only good ammo.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 6:21:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 7:00:20 AM EDT
I'm with Tate: Why did you install McFarland ring?  I'm far from an expert, but I KNOW I read somewhere of problems with these McFarland rings.  When did you install these?  Maybe around the time you started having problems?

Keep trying, and good luck!
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 8:24:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Striker:
since you are getting all kinds of advice on your jamming problem([b]BTW..Colt Sporter,Canadian thermolds and well over 1000 rds fired. jam's..0[/b])
That is one bitch'n Camaro. I hope your running a 3" catback exhaust so the 5.0L parts are expelled [;)]
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No cats on Art's car - back when they made REAL cars (not FWD Honda/Toyota/Yugo/etc) they didn't have them. I like the 5.0 comment though!! I'm betting from his ET's he has 3.5" or bigger all the way back. That thing probably eats 460's as the main course - 5.0's are merely an appetizer.....
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 8:33:57 AM EDT
Hey Art -  It sounds like you definately need to try a known good mag before you go any further. If needed, I can mail you one to try out (don't stretch my spring though..[;D]).
My brother bought a DPMS AR a few years ago and it was having problems with stovepiping. It happened with every mag and all kinds of ammo. We traced that problem to an incorrect ejector spring - it was way too stiff and appeared to be different than the other ones we had on hand. I replaced it with a new one and the rifle has been through several thousand rounds since without a problem.
I'm also suspicious of the rings you installed on the bolt.

Hey if all else fails, bring both rifles and we'll go to my local range and try to sort them out. Try to give me a few days notice so I can check my work schedule, but I'd be glad to help.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 8:34:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gus:
Originally Posted By Striker:
since you are getting all kinds of advice on your jamming problem([b]BTW..Colt Sporter,Canadian thermolds and well over 1000 rds fired. jam's..0[/b])
That is one bitch'n Camaro. I hope your running a 3" catback exhaust so the 5.0L parts are expelled [;)]
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No cats on Art's car - back when they made REAL cars (not FWD Honda/Toyota/Yugo/etc) they didn't have them. I like the 5.0 comment though!! I'm betting from his ET's he has 3.5" or bigger all the way back. That thing probably eats 460's as the main course - 5.0's are merely an appetizer.....
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Pipes are 4" out each side..[:)]
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 8:35:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 8:55:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gus:
Hey Art -  It sounds like you definately need to try a known good mag before you go any further. If needed, I can mail you one to try out (don't stretch my spring though..[;D]).
My brother bought a DPMS AR a few years ago and it was having problems with stovepiping. It happened with every mag and all kinds of ammo. We traced that problem to an incorrect ejector spring - it was way too stiff and appeared to be different than the other ones we had on hand. I replaced it with a new one and the rifle has been through several thousand rounds since without a problem.
I'm also suspicious of the rings you installed on the bolt.

Hey if all else fails, bring both rifles and we'll go to my local range and try to sort them out. Try to give me a few days notice so I can check my work schedule, but I'd be glad to help.
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I've already got the gas rings off now...just put the old 3 ring jobs back on....

I'm headed back to the range in about an hour or so....

I'll keep yooos posted...
I think I'll try a different ejector spring in the CAR-15...
That gun is having the problems kicking the spent cases out...
I remember looking at the ejector spring during cleaning and saw that it has a small blue piece of rubber or silicone in the center of the spring...Should I remove It???   OR...Try another spring, I have plenty O spare parts...
Some of the other E springs I see, have Orange rubber/silicone in them...Stiffer ? lighter ?

I guess I'll take tools with me today....

BY THE WAY....

Please don't take my negative remarks about AR's TOO SERIOUSLEY ....
If any of you guys knew me in person yood understand....
I really DO love my AR's, Regardless of what some may think......
I'm just a bit of a smart-ass sometimes....not trying to sway anybody...
My AR's are definately nicer feeling & nicer shooting guns than my AK's when they function. The negative gripe from me is simply my feeble attempt at venting my frustration....
Sorry if anyone took offense...
No harm intended.....[:)]
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 9:08:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2001 9:11:20 AM EDT by Striker]
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 9:16:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam White:
Originally Posted By dragracerart:


Practicing for a jam ??? Did you anticipate one ??? If I was concerned about a jam I wouldn't practice to correct it, I would buy a more reliable gun...[:)]  
View Quote


Despite your claim otherwise, I now share the belief of an earlier poster that you are here on a trolling expedition. The jam-o-matic rhetoric is obvious. You readily speak of many AR myths that anti-AR people love to tout: fragility of mags (bullshit), need for pristine cleanliness (bullshit), etc. You then seem to hope to get your biases verified through this post, by acting like "one of us." Did you send your AK buddies a link to the thread to get a good laugh?

For the record: I have been in the Army over 8 years, and have never had a jam with an issue rifle unless firing blanks. I have had the occasional failure to feed (usually the second to last round) due to bad magazines. Those magazines didn't "become bad" because of any fragility issue. They were likely always bad or had something unusual done to them. Magazines get ABUSED. If they were as fragile as you imply then no surplus mags would work worth a shit. Instead, surplus GI mags are usually much more reliable than new shit mags. Watch how soldiers/marines treat their gear in the field and you will see their is no "babying" of mags. I put over 1,000 rounds through the several issue rifles ion short periods of time and on sandy, dusty ranges. The only cleaning I ever did (past tense - carry a pistol now) in the field is a wipedown and bolt scrub - takes me maybe five minutes unless the rifles been in the mud (then it takes some time, cuz I clean the outside to make it look perty again)

My personal AR has never jammed. This after many range sessions and with all kinds of ammo - factory to reload - unless testing known bad mags. I clean it - but nothing overly anal. It is anything but spotless.

Go ahead and continue to make fun of practicing for a jam. It just proves your ignorance.


Adam

View Quote


ADAM

If you weren't a fellow AR owner
I would probably have a smartass comment for you...
BUT, I'm not here to "convert" anybody, or piss anybody off....  I couldn't give 2 shits about what kind of gun people prefer. I simply stated my frustration and my brief experience with the AR's & AK's

The only Ignorance I've seen is the ridiculous thought that I'm here "Trolling"

The simple fact that I'm frustrated & having trouble with an AR-15 makes me a "Troller"?

I'm here looking for help and advice....
Not a bunch of shit and criticism.    

By the way, I'll start practicing for jams when my paper targets start shooting back at me....[:)]
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 9:23:57 AM EDT
[green][size=4]We need to know what kind of ammo you're using?[/size=4][/green]

The Oly sounds like a short stroke or a sticky chamber (possibly from laquer build up???).
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 9:25:21 AM EDT
Signing off for now..
headed to the range....be back on AR.com later to B.S.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 9:38:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kevin@AR15com_1&2:
[green][size=4]We need to know what kind of ammo you're using?[/size=4][/green]

The Oly sounds like a short stroke or a sticky chamber (possibly from laquer build up???).
View Quote


Definately NOT laquer build up...I won't use that Russian stuff in my AR's...I save that stuff for the AK's....
The ammo I'm using worked fine up until recently. All was from the same case lot...
It's brass cased "PMP" stuff...
From S. AFRICA Manufactured to SAAMI and CIP specs...
Keep in mind this stuff always worked  good for me...
I'm starting to suspect the "Les Baer" gas rings...
I'll keep you guys posted...
Signing off now...
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 9:45:26 AM EDT
An AR is a fun gun to shoot, but far too finicky and unreliable to count on in a pinch.  The individual tuning required to ensure you've got a reliable weapon is absurd.

After owning and selling these things for many years, I decided to dump them and the caliber altogether.  Some of my AR's were okay, but none reached the 100% reliability I demand under all conditions, all ammo and without having to be very selective on mags, ammo, dirt conditions, etc.

The final straw for me was the fact that the .223 cartridge has inadequate penetration on hardened targets.  Although Combat Loads is an unscientific report on caliber penetration, the results listed therein are an eye opener.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 10:36:25 AM EDT
So Henry -
If you hate AR's so much, why are you here and not over on some M14 or AK site? Just curious...
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 1:06:07 PM EDT
I am currently a range instructor in my fulltime job and in the Army Reserves, and  Ar15's (Colt or C7) are the primary weapon in both jobs. I can assure everyone that, yes, AR15's jam; however, they do not jam excessively. I never hear anyone complain that they are unreliable, but we do spend some time practicing clearing jams.

It think that many of the weapons that people complain about at this site, are weapons put together using a mix of substandard parts, which are assembled using some "how to manual".      
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 2:23:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 4:42:32 PM EDT
I just shot 100 rounds of Wolf through the Bushy...no problems FWIW.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 5:14:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2001 5:14:31 PM EDT by Henry Bowman]
Originally Posted By gus:
So Henry -
If you hate AR's so much, why are you here and not over on some M14 or AK site? Just curious...
View Quote


'Cause I'm selling all my AR stuff to the fine folks who visit here.  Fine rifles, just not enough reliablity in the design.  You would do well to quote me correctly - I didn't say I hate AR's, I said they are too finicky.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 5:40:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Henry Bowman:
Originally Posted By gus:
So Henry -
If you hate AR's so much, why are you here and not over on some M14 or AK site? Just curious...
View Quote


'Cause I'm selling all my AR stuff to the fine folks who visit here.  Fine rifles, just not enough reliablity in the design.  You would do well to quote me correctly - I didn't say I hate AR's, I said they are too finicky.
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Fair enough!!  BTW, I wasn't quoting, I interpreted from what you said and your tone that you didn't like AR's..

So with that out of the way, whatcha got for sale???

Link Posted: 4/29/2001 11:36:12 PM EDT
How did you make out after swapping out the one peice ring for the original 3 rings?
I seem to recall a year or two ago on this forum there was discussion about the Mcfarland one piece ring and how it didn't exactly help reliability. I could be wrong it's been a while since that post. Anyone else using the one piece ring successfully?

I wish I was able to get to the range today. Too much work to have fun. I'm hoping I can get to the Harrisburg Gun Show next weekend but that's not looking too good right now.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 3:36:46 AM EDT
I've put MANY thousand rounds downrange with 3 Colts and 1 Bushmaster, ZERO failures that couldn't be fixed with green mag followers. No offence intended to anyone, but IMO the ABC rule needs to be followed when buying an AR. I use only USGI mags or Thermolds. Most problems I've personally seen with other shooters are 1)junk mags (USA, PMI, etc) 2)bad lots of ammo 3)substandard guns(not ABC). Dirty AR's seem to function well. One guy I know has approx 4K rounds thru his Colt without cleaning. A rifle is only a group of parts with certain tolerances. This is why reputable, mil-spec manufacturers make the best AR's. A lemon is a group of mismatched or out-of-tolerance parts and life is too short to put up with the headaches they cause! Just my opinion...
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 6:35:44 AM EDT
Here's a tip on magazines.  Remove the baseplate and the spring.  Leave the follower in the magazine and turn the magazine upside down.  The follower should fall FREELY to the top of the magazine in the upside down position.  If it doesn't...fix it.  The rear lips on the magazine have to be exact.  Figure out what they are supposed to be like then modify your malfunctioning magazines ever so slightly so they will work properly.  Instead of complaining that this or that magazine never works...figure out the problem and fix it.  You guys have brains....use them.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 9:54:55 AM EDT
My unasked for opinion.  I was a usmc platoon commander, saw lots of m16 abuse, but we had school trained armorers to fix problem weapons. Each marine was issued 6 mags.  usually tried to shoot enough ammo thru all mags to id problem mags and replace. plenty of gi mags would not function properly, but we had several to select/trade for. infantry weapons/mags are well used. I still have 3 30 rd mags used as replacements/trading. M16/ar15 reliablity lacking imho for the price of the weapon.  
now use fal (cost $700 kit gun about 500 rds about 5 fail to feed during break in, now runs great)
ak47 (cost $300, SAR1,1000 rds fired 0 jams, russian ammo),
and ak74 (cost $300, 500 rds fired 0 jams, romanian/russian ammo).
I would not put up with unreliable weapon. sell it or trade it, its not worth the aggravation. For the price of an ar one can but a whoop-ass FAL or three ak's.
If 5.56 weapon is a must have, the VEPR line of weapons looks real inviting.  
Have a nice day
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 10:39:05 AM EDT
Here we go again...

0302 - With all due respect to your service in the USMC, if you dislike the AR so much, why are you here? If all you have to offer is your negativity, then you have become classified as a "troll". How come none of my several AR's has ever had reliability problems? I have friends with AK's that are having big problems, and they are not as likely to get them fixxed since spare parts are not as widely available, especially on a local level. I also have an AK and it has been trouble free. And for that matter, FAL's have not been exactly trouble free either - ask the Israeli soldiers that fought against Egypt.
There are plenty of FAL, AK, etc. forums out there. Why not join one of them instead?

Link Posted: 4/30/2001 11:17:36 AM EDT
my post is based on experience.  if your experience is different, more power to you and yours.  I have fired the m16, m203, m60 machine gun, mk 19 hmg, m2 .50 cal hmg, m249 saw, m9 beretta 9mm, smaw, ak47, ak74, fal, ruger 7mm mag,  mini 14, a daisy bb gun, a water squirt gun, a sling shot, bow and arrow, 12 ga shotgun, etc. I am not a gun expert, just a regular guy with an opinion and limited finances and don't plan on spending $'s on something that doesn't work when I pull the trigger.  Grow up. if you don't like it, don't read it.  
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 11:24:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2001 11:24:45 AM EDT by gus]
OK, so I ask the same question again, hoping for an answer this time - why are you here?
I hate Rosie O'Donnell, and I don't hang out on her web page. I don't understand your interest in this topic if you dislike it.
Oh, and I've shot just about everything you've shot, except maybe the squirt gun, and I'm all grown up.


Troll...
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 9:33:26 PM EDT
Eeeeeeasy guys......

I would have gotten back to you guys sooner...but I had to take the wife & kids to Pizza Hut after my day at the range, & then had to stop & "feed the ducks" & then had to visit my folks & fix their lawn tractor.......Sooo...After all that, I logged on to AR-15.com & typed for about 35 minutes explaining what happened at the range...I was just about finished typing & the Goddamn phone rang & disconnected me from the WebTv....I was so pissed you can't imagine...So instead of throwing the phone or the TV,...I decided to just go to bed...Then, this morning my neghbor called me over to see his turkey he just shot & after that I had to fix my bosses lawnmower....Then go to work at 2:00PM....Sooo..Finally I'm able to explain my day at the range...I'll continue on the next post before the damn phone rings & erases what I just typed...
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 9:49:21 PM EDT
There are very few ways to make a perfectly good AR not function. 1:Throw a handful of dirt in the chamber. 2:Give it a shitty mag. 3:Give it shitty ammo that doesn't want to cycle properly. 4:Give it a gas problem, i.e. gas rings lined up, keyway blocked, gas tube clogged. and 5:Run it dry.

Because I keep my guns fairly clean, the ONLY way I could ever get any of my AR's to Malf is if I put absolutely no lube on them. A dry AR may malfunction every two or three rounds. Mine do anyway. Once you lube them up good, they will melt the barrel before they jam up.
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