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Posted: 10/20/2001 9:40:36 PM EDT
[#1]
sounds like 2 violations right there. But as per the rules i for one will make an effort of trolling his future posts. I have saved his original post and you can be damned sure it will be seen again if he is.
mike |
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Posted: 10/20/2001 9:44:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Floater, beliefs can change when you realize that you are a coward. That is what happened to him. Why the hell are defending this guy? This is not a civilian fighting the draft, this is someone already in the Army. Why did his 'beliefs' suddenly CHANGE when he realized he might actually have to do his duty? Stop defending this puke. I hope they court martial him and send him to Leavenworth. Do you defend all those in the military who suddenly in the last few weeks 'realized' that they are conscientious objectors, when, in reality, they are nothing but cowards?
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Posted: 10/20/2001 9:46:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Floater,
Please fill me in on what branch of the military you have or presently serve in. You obviously have no clue about how the military works or what is involved in being a soldier. Let me say this again. AS A SOLDIER HE HAS NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER TO STAND UP FOR ANY BELIEF HE HAS AT ALL. PERIOD. HIS ONLY BELEIF SYSTEM INVOLVES WHAT HE IS LAWFULLY ORDERED TO DO. He may have personal opinions but AS AN OFFICER he is required to keep them to himself. He is only to reflect the opinions of the US ARMY and his chain of command. If you have not served then please for your sake drop it. You are looking like a fool. mike |
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Posted: 10/20/2001 9:52:17 PM EDT
[#4]
I say we give the guy a nice dental office in Afghanistan. Them Talibans have plenty of crappy teeth for him to fix. No worries about scud attacks either. He would be killed by MUCH more effective munitions than that!
F*cking freeloader. |
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Posted: 10/20/2001 10:00:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Gotta side with HKocher on this one. He didn't break any rules here.
Hate him all you want. Rape his dog and burn down his chicken farm in the name of "Patriotism" if you like. Unfortunately, he didn't break any rules here. The things he said, spoke volumes as to his personal beliefs. I cannot abide cowards. I only hope if the time ever comes when he actually has to make the decision, he makes the right one, and takes the right action. His words insulted many (including himself), but he has yet to trample on any of my rights. Therefore, he can say them, and deal with the consequences. I wont throw away one principle for his sake. Sorry folks, he's probably a coward, and the military needs to deal with that issue. But if I had to vote whether to ban him or not, I'd have to vote "no". |
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Posted: 10/20/2001 10:01:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Digusting to think this guy is still technicaly an "American" after backing out like this. In my book he sure as hell aint.
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Posted: 10/20/2001 10:06:03 PM EDT
[#7]
I don't think it will be necessary to ban him...
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Posted: 10/20/2001 10:20:51 PM EDT
[#8]
I wish that I could wholeheartedly support this war, as a civilian. I am not convinced that its anything more than another Vietnam micromanagement fiasco to prop up a shaky presidency. If Bush really comes to grips with what needs to be done in Afghanistan then he'll have my support, and I would agree that he is a deserter. I really do not believe that he has any intention of dealing with the opium trade there that supplies 70% of the worlds opium, because as a capitalist he realizes that its their best source of income. Until then it looks like another marginal effort to placate the masses.
As for the dentist this doesn't surprise me. You have just been privy to the whining of a rich son to his influential, well bred family. Do politicians sons fight on front lines? Do ANY rich sons fight? No, I don't think we'll be seeing any rich doctors on the front lines this time around. |
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Posted: 10/20/2001 10:29:13 PM EDT
[#9]
grimshaw,
That's twisted, d00d. Have you forgotten about 7,000 of your fellow Americans after only 6 weeks? Are you fucking serious man? If you really believe that George Bush invented this war to prop up his presidency, you are sick. |
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Posted: 10/20/2001 10:31:49 PM EDT
[#10]
What the fuck?
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Posted: 10/20/2001 10:39:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Seems a little far-fetched that GWB invented it. I suppose if the autopilot was progammed...Seriously... as far as the 7000 Americans, No I have not forgotten. Who could? But the problem, as Tony Blair says is 200 years old, begins and ends with the opium trade, and in that country as long as opium is their source of income, you'll have a twisted, evil government that gives no thought to the well being of the rest of the world. Burning the opium fields is not on the American agenda, but it is on the Brits. There will be a lot more than 7,000 dead humans of many nations before this problem is solved, d00d.
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Posted: 10/20/2001 10:49:40 PM EDT
[#12]
You still haven't clarified your statement about GWB's presidency. You said, "I am not convinced that its anything more than another Vietnam micromanagement fiasco to prop up a shaky presidency." I say that statement is bullshit. This attack was on American soil, involving American civilians. There is a difference.
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Posted: 10/20/2001 10:52:20 PM EDT
[#13]
He is a coward. I can't believe he is trying to chicken out of his commitment. That is a disgrace to the service.
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Posted: 10/20/2001 10:58:44 PM EDT
[#14]
You guys are going way overboard. If he is ordered to go, and then he doesn't, then I'll think less of him. But as it stands now, he is afraid to go, and he admits it. Everyone should be afraid to go. It's what you do when you have to that counts. I've heard lots of guys say that they wouldn't do something, but when they had to, they put their heads down, grit their teeth, and did it. I've also seen guys that just couldn't handle it. I never thought any less of the guys that couldn't, because I was afraid I might be one of them if things had gotten any worse. I never ran, unless told to, but many times, I closed my eyes and imagined how good it would feel to do so.
Also, after reading his post carefully, it seems to me that he doesn't feel confident that he could handle a fight. I know I didn't, and I was "trained" to fight.z |
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Posted: 10/20/2001 11:05:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: He is a coward. I can't believe he is trying to chicken out of his commitment. That is a disgrace to the service. yes he is, and as a soldier (me) i think he should be shot on sight BUT that is not a "good" reason to ban him.like every other american he has the "rite" to free speech,we can all sit back and play supper computer soldier,give him his"rite" to be a coward and let him pay the the price for being a coward. most likley he will never be called up and if he is, well us who have served know what will happen...hehehe by the way because of a coward i gave 2 disks in my back to uncle sugger after only being able to serve 19 mounths on a.d. other then that i would still be serving my country along side my brothers.[USA] |
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Posted: 10/20/2001 11:18:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Well, I don't think he should be banned, even if he is a scum sucking coward and a cheat. Let the military deal with him. Let's hope he gets some prison time.
Oh, and by the way, F*ck You kramrd. |
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Posted: 10/21/2001 12:33:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Banning him from the board will not erase his lack of commitment. He will not go away. He will still be there in the world somewhere. He will have to live with the coices he makes. Maybe he will read some of our comments and reconsider his obligation to duty. Maybe he will not risk his sacred honor because we showed him the light. This will always be a stain on his record here whether or not he posts again. A great big scarlet letter. Or is that more of a yellow letter? Edited to say: I vote no on the ban, let him wallow in his cowardice.
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Posted: 10/21/2001 1:12:46 AM EDT
[#18]
Edited to say: I vote no on the ban, let him wallow in his cowardice. How bout we just change his board name to BITCH! |
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Posted: 10/21/2001 1:13:18 AM EDT
[#19]
He signed up to be a soldier, and to follow lawful orders. Period.
Now that things are not going as planned he squawks. Too bad, pal. Life is full of things like this, this stuff is contained in the fine print of the contract of life. Didn't read it fully? So sorry. Soldier, shut up and soldier! Ban him? Hell no! It won't be necessary. |
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Posted: 10/21/2001 1:31:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Do you really think I want to follow kramrd lawfull orders when he can't do the same?
This is the US Army Officer Oath of Office. It [s]about[/s] says it all. Army Officer Appointment Acceptance and Oath of Office [b]"I (insert name), having been appointed a (insert rank) in the U.S. Army under the conditions indicated in this document, do accept such appointment and do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter, so help me God."[b] |
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Posted: 10/21/2001 1:43:10 AM EDT
[#21]
USN, you're right. That oath DOES say it all.
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Posted: 10/21/2001 3:41:07 AM EDT
[#22]
WOW [:o]
I never heard such bullshit in my life. I didn;t read the "You mean I have to fight" thread until now. Yes, he is a piece of shit in the purest fucking terms. I don't think he should be banned by the administration (Matter of fact, i'd bet he may not show back up)- I believe the members should handle it. If he is not wanted, drive him away. If he won't leave, oh well. No matter how it turns out, i'd hate to spend a minute in his skin. He has to live with himself as a [yellow][size=4]COWARD![/yellow][/size=4]. "A soldier dies once, a coward dies a million times." |
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Posted: 10/21/2001 4:44:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Ok...let me get this straight..you want him banned for whinning about doing his duty...but when he defaced the flag of a neighboring country with the ultimate symbol of racism and hate there were no complaints....LMAO....
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Posted: 10/21/2001 5:03:26 AM EDT
[#24]
Fis, personally I am not aware of the flag defacing incident. DO NOT, even by implication, associate myself, and board members in general, with the acts of another board member. You, sir, are out of line.
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Posted: 10/21/2001 5:17:37 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: DO NOT, even by implication, associate myself, and board members in general, with the acts of another board member. You, sir, are out of line. Raf, I was not painting the AR15 members with this but take things however you may. My point is that we do not appear to be applying the code of conduct in a consistent manner..... Fis_Prod BTW the incident I was refering to is : [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=61535[/url] |
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Posted: 10/21/2001 5:23:43 AM EDT
[#26]
[red][b]Ironically, most of you ranting on this thread have violated more rules in this thread alone, than he ever has... so kindly quit your whining and let the Govt deal with him accordingly!
As I recall, treason during wartime IS punishible by death![/b][/red] [kill] |
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Posted: 10/21/2001 5:27:08 AM EDT
[#27]
Even though I do not agree with the way Kramrd looks at his position in the military, I strongly disagree with that outlook. He didnt brake any forum rules, if his comments get him in trouble IRL than that's something he'll have to answer for IRL.
I myself will therefor not lock or ban his account for the remarks he made. Also, I would like to suggest taking this to email. As it is obvious that this thread will not serve it's intended purpose. That is locking/banning Kramrd's account. Kuiper [red]You beat me to the lock exactly a few secs AntiUSSA [:)][/red] |
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Posted: 10/21/2001 8:04:15 AM EDT
[#28]
Ok I am going to comment on this thread even though it's locked. Feel free to email me to discuss this further, but this should HELP clarify our stance and my personal thoughts as well. I also want to field a few comments quickly...
Quoted: As for the dentist this doesn't surprise me. You have just been privy to the whining of a rich son to his influential, well bred family. Do politicians sons fight on front lines? Do ANY rich sons fight? No, I don't think we'll be seeing any rich doctors on the front lines this time around. Not true. My old man (fucker is 55+ and a Medical Doctor) got his ducks in a row in case I or my brother enlisted. I talked with recruiters (army) and doctors about what I would need to do. Case and point, I have to have surgury or lie to make it in... surgury is 6-12 months of recovery with 2 operations... so I'm basically out. If I had gone, then a "rich doctor" and his well to do sons would be on the front lines fucking shit up. (If I got placed in infantry where I wanted...) Don't lump everyone into categories that fit YOUR thoughts. Many of us believe in something higher than ourselves. Quoted: I don't think he should be banned by the administration (Matter of fact, i'd bet he may not show back up)- I believe the members should handle it. If he is not wanted, drive him away. By handling it I hope you mean dealing with things in a quality manner. There's many choices on how to respond to this. Perhaps a discussion so he could clarify his thoughts? Perhaps turning over his own words to his command? I'm sure the military would properly address this issue as it concerns them directly. As for my personal thoughts on this... 1) There is no reason to ban him. I don't like many things posted here, I don't respect many people here who can't live in peace with one another or lash out at groups or others, but they have a right to be here as much as anyone else. We all contribute in our own ways and I'm sure he has contributed to the well being of the site and it's members. 2) I [b]TOTALLY DISAGREE[/b] with what he said. I think he's as disgusting as the next person. Joining the military to "cash in" is not only fucking bullshit, but traitorous. The only way out of this is to discuss it with his superior officer, return the money, and be branded as a coward. When you sign up to defend your country, you sign up to give your LIFE, if needed, to protecting our nation, flag, and freedoms. By refusing to fight, or refusing to go to the front lines, you violate everything that every soldier from the Revolutionary War on has fought and died for. That is something I, and many here, can not and will not respect. I wish you luck in your future, because I certainly would not want to be in your shoes. You can skirt around this and hope that you don't get called, or you can stand up for your beliefs, turn in the money, recieve a dishonorable discharge, and earn back a [i]little[/i] respect. Your country will never look upon you the same way, and neither will any of us. May god have mercy on your soul... |
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