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Posted: 3/18/2006 7:58:43 PM EDT
[#1]
It could be seen as tyrannical and stupid, or it could be a way of dealing with a family member who got unfriendly drunk without resorting to a domestic violence charge. I can see where "drunk at home" charge would be better than what came of the situation MagKnightX described in his "The police just took my father" thread. |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 1:32:59 AM EDT
[#2]
And if they can't handle the problem, what then? |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 1:42:13 AM EDT
[#3]
 "I don't know how many it was gonna take to throw me out........but i knew how many they was gonna use  "
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Posted: 3/19/2006 2:50:35 AM EDT
[#4]
Damn, I need a new business plan. |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 4:11:18 AM EDT
[#5]
Ah,
Nevermind GM |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 4:20:06 AM EDT
[#6]
I was drunk in a BAR, they THREW me in ppuubblliicc. They call me "tater-salad". |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 5:09:15 AM EDT
[#7]
This year they did three night deposits. $200K at 8:30PM. $200K at 11:30PM and an unknown amount at 2:AM. $10.00 cover. $8.00 a beer. 450 people max capacity. Line to get in all day. |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 5:42:14 AM EDT
[#8]
I'm gonna tell ya how I really feel...
Can't smoke in a fucking bar... CAN'T GET DRUNK IN A FUCKING BAR??? So let me get this straight... A bar is some sort of a health club??? Our country is going to hell...just going to hell... Unfuckingbelievable  |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 6:32:49 AM EDT
[#9]
+1 You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. You must conform. [/society] |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 7:53:54 AM EDT
[#10]
So, you have an 18 year old kid in a bar drinking alcohol in violation of State law. That's called "minor in possession" and it's a class c misdeemeanor in Texas. "making alcohol available to a minor" is a Class b, and that's the ticket that gets handed to the bartender/owner.
It's all fun and game suntil some kid gets killed and then it's "why didn't the police DO something to stop this tragedy?". Also, there is no requirement to perform sobriety tests for public intoxication. Read the statute again. All it says is that the individual must be intoxicated to the point where he presents a danger to himself and others. For some, that can be after one drink--for others--it takes more. The law is intentionally vague to give officers discretion. Also, I have never heard of ANYONE going drinking and then acting MORE responsibly. Reminds me of that WKRP in Cincinnati episode in which Johnny Fever's reactions get quicker with each drink he consumes. pato |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 7:58:36 AM EDT
[#11]
I think we should arrest and put everyone in jail indefinitely. Everybody has broken some law somehow and if not they will definitely break some law in the future. It's for their own good. Seriously, it's safer for everyone this way.
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Posted: 3/19/2006 8:35:48 AM EDT
[#12]
The Irving PD has to make some money now that the Cowboys are leaving the city..lol
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Posted: 3/19/2006 9:09:30 AM EDT
[#13]
The first time I ever went to DFW, I stayed in Plano for a couple of weeks (business trip). I was amazed to learn the myriad of "dry" and "wet" regions, and the fact that you had to buy a stupid little card for like $2 to be allowed to buy so much as a beer. I don't know why, I just figured Tx would be slightly more tolerant of drinking than, say, Maryland which is the definition of a over-policed govt control state.
Meanwhile, there are gangs, meth labs, crack houses, muggers, and illegal aliens to go after, yet they waste resources doing this bullshit instead. What a fucking joke.
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Posted: 3/19/2006 9:14:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Unfuckingbelieveable. Enough of the nanny state shit.
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Posted: 3/19/2006 9:41:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Why do this?
because of public outcry when one of the kids gets killed after being stupid. It's your fellow citizens that want this stuff done. Didn't you pay attention to that "Shattered Dreams" struff in school? What I see here is stuff like "I'm not a danger when I drink" and "that stuff is wrong because I feel it is" Well, there is a direct correlation to being drunk in a bar and driving drunk. There is also a direct correlation between driving drunk and accidents, injuries, and death. Do the math. pato |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 10:28:00 AM EDT
[#16]
Amen. That was honestly one of the stupidest things I've read on ARFcom this year... short of "Can ye smell it???" |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 10:39:10 AM EDT
[#17]
Yep, same justification for gun laws. 
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Posted: 3/19/2006 10:46:32 AM EDT
[#18]
Is that $900 a TIP for the officer? Since the bar pays taxes why should the PD charge MORE for one day. You'll [city/county] make $$$$$$ for DUI, DIP, and all the rest anyways. Not bashing, but sounds like quite a racket to me. Whats that break down per hour? $100.00 or so per officer? |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 10:54:49 AM EDT
[#19]
I've been saying for years that all of the gun laws, most of the alcohol laws and nearly all the domestic violence laws in this country are unconstitutional. Why? Because the premise behind all of these is that the person is being arrested, not for what he has done, but for what he "may" do.
Pretty much all other criminal laws require that you have "done" something to qualify for arrest. These laws are predicated on "you may be about to do something" that "may endanger" someone. Nanny state thinking brought them into being, because of public demand. Don't blame the peace officers who are required to enforce them...blame the sheeple who cry out for these kind of laws as a knee-jerk reaction to some sad story they heard on the evening news. 
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Posted: 3/19/2006 10:56:17 AM EDT
[#20]
Silky's????? |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 11:00:25 AM EDT
[#21]
900$ per officer is pretty cheap actually, if it's as big an operation as he says. There's more involved than sitting on the streetcorner. You cause a hazardous situation in the course of business, expect to pay for the controlling of that hazard above and beyond your local taxes. (Assuming the bar owner pays any.) The average DWI here according to the county attorney, costs local govt 9K. The numbers REALLY goes up if there is a collision involved. Typical fines collected are in the 500-1500K range. (Assuming they pay too) How is that making money? 
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Posted: 3/19/2006 11:05:28 AM EDT
[#22]
THe last time i was shit faced i was pukeing in the lawn of the house of the party, my last words i can remeber saying to my frieds were "dont let me die like Jimi Hendrix".........................
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Posted: 3/19/2006 11:09:04 AM EDT
[#23]
Nope. It pays the overtime for the officer plus wear & tear on equipment and workers comp insurance. |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 11:11:12 AM EDT
[#24]
I have an ex G/F, who i dumped badley, who loves that bar. So obviosuly i dont go there. |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 11:47:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Yes, I'm sure this operation was cooked up when a bunch local cops got together and decided to go after citizens for unwinding in a bar. Couldn't have possibly been a local politician/prosecutor/etc, "looking out for public safety" and tryng to score some browny points with the majority, nor might it have been the TABC leaning on them for their cooperation. Either way, this came down on the cops and maybe the TABC from a higher source.
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Posted: 3/19/2006 12:12:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Absolutely And Texas law makes it illegal to serve an intoxicated person. That is not limited to a person who meets the definition of PI. If the person is intoxicated they cannot be served period. It is also illegal for the bar to allow an intoxicated person to remain on the premises. Anyone who thinks drunks voluntarily get into cabs to go home, or think that because THEY have never driven drunk that others will not do it.....well, you are just naive. And ts funny how everyone here talks about the "sheeple" and complains how the media twists gun stories, but when something like this is reported you all become the sheeple and react JUST LIKE the mdia wants you to. |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 1:42:20 PM EDT
[#27]
So does this mean that cops can go into strip clubs and arrest the strippers for public indecency? |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 2:25:34 PM EDT
[#28]
No it means that there is a distinction between private property, ie someones home, and private property that is open to the public, ie commercial property. |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 3:06:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Its been done before based on whatever local laws exist on the subject. |
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Posted: 3/19/2006 3:10:05 PM EDT
[#30]
"Puhb-lick." 
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Posted: 3/22/2006 4:10:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Isn't this just in Texas?
Thank god they shut down my thread on this...www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=448240 I'd hate to be in any way responsible for all the cop-bashing that will be going on here. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:43:48 PM EDT
[#32]
I act more responsibly after a couple drinks. Alcohol makes me selfconscious. Up to a point, anyway. There, now you're heard of it. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:53:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Aaaah, the old arrest before they do anything wrong approach. Innocent untill proven guilty my ass, now you are guilty before the crime. Minority Report anyone
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Posted: 3/22/2006 6:44:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Anyone who thinks gun owners are not murderers, or think that because THEY have never murdered that others will not do it.....well, you are just naive. Same thing, no? It's called FREEDOM...Not being prosecuted for something you might do, but for something you DID do. BIG difference. Reactive = freedom Proactive = tyranny |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 7:34:58 PM EDT
[#35]
You cant blame this one on the street cops, though. You know theres some administrator thats been around since prohibition and he thinks this is a good idea. Ive been to bars in many states, but I NEVER saw as many cops (TABC) in bars as I did when I lived in Texas. ( I am the not so proud recipient of two MIP charges) In the city where I work, we never see Liquor Control people in town. And usually we only go to the bars on calls, or when we get off work.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:14:43 PM EDT
[#36]
My problem with this is what defines "intoxicated?" At my body weight, I think 3-4 drinks officially means I can't legally drive. If I drove, I'd be "driving while intoxicated." But at 3-4 drinks, I'm far from not being able to care for myself. Would I still get arrested? That's BS.
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Posted: 3/23/2006 9:52:02 AM EDT
[#37]
That's wrong IMO!
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Posted: 3/23/2006 10:45:34 AM EDT
[#38]
Sounds like a CA for PC 415. Brian |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 10:54:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Were the patrons actually arrested inside the bar or outside the bar? Not sure why any officer would perform FSTs on a drunk in public.
Brian |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 10:56:22 AM EDT
[#40]
You dont know what you are talking about. The public has access to your front yard, is it public property? I know for a fact that a bar/resturaunt is private property and as such you can do whatever you want basically as long as it is within the defined laws. So if you owned a big building that had a driveway to it and opened the doors for all to come you could have an orgy in the middle if you so pleased. As for children being present that is obviously some sort of child endangerment thing so I cannot understand why you would even say that. Police have NO jurisdiction to arrest a visibly intoxicated person on private property on the basis of being drunk alone.... This law is bullshit and anyone who supports it is a fucking idiot.. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 10:59:36 AM EDT
[#41]
Bullshit. Maybe in some states but there's no law in PA that says the licensee will not allow patrons top get drunk, etc. As for serving the public... You can be refused service for any reason, like the color of your hair for instance, in PA anyway.. Cant do that at the state dmv.. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 11:05:55 AM EDT
[#42]
Might I suggest you do a bit of research regarding PA law first? I don't know PA law but I'm guessing you are incorrect..... Brian |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 11:08:06 AM EDT
[#43]
And the solution is to arrest people on the assumption that they may commit a crime after they leave the bar? Pleeeeaaaase! |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 11:13:17 AM EDT
[#44]
I ran a bar(s) for 12 years. I have on several occasions asked uniformed police officers to leave the premises immediatly. I have asked them not to park their cruisers in my parking lot and they HAVE to comply and they always did. Why? Because its PRIVATE PROPERTY! |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 11:15:19 AM EDT
[#45]
Please provide the sections that support your belief - I might learn something. Brian |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 11:18:28 AM EDT
[#46]
TABC is one of the state's biggest revenue generators. hard to make a financial case against them. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 11:23:28 AM EDT
[#47]
exactly. i have always aintained an excellent working relaionship with the various LE agencies i've deal with in the business, but unless there is a complaint, they must respond to a request to leave. that said, i actually like police presence at my place. a smiling, uniformed cop makes for a wonderful deterrent to troublemakers, and tends to make the womenfolk feel safer. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 11:25:38 AM EDT
[#48]
Sections for what? The law? Establishments that serve alcohol fall under the jurisdiction of the PA Liquor Control Board. They are an extention of the State Police. They do have the legal right to enter your establishment at any time for any reason. And they have the right to surveil you at any time for any reason. Local law enforcement are held to the standard laws regarding the rest of us in that they have to witness a crime, have reasonable suspicion(or whatever the term is nowadays) that a crime(s) are being committed, have been called to the establishment or been given access by the person given charge of the establishment at that time, or a warrant to enter your premises. So If you have a guy on a barstool drunk, which in PA is subject because .08 applies while you are driving, and a cop walks in and tickets him for PD, it would fall flat on it's face in court. Contrary to popular belief, the police do have limits on what they are allowed to do.
I do not have the Liquor Laws in front of me.. You look them up if you dont believe me. I know how I ran my businesses.. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 11:26:47 AM EDT
[#49]
here's a fun little legal tidbit. in one part of the texas bev code, it says that it is illegal to serve anyone who is "impaired" by alcohol. in another section, it says that any amount of alcohol will cause impairment. so by the letter of the law, it is illegal in texas to serve someone who has had a single drink. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 11:31:01 AM EDT
[#50]
And to clarify it is illegal by the slaw in PA to serve visibly intoxicated persons. That being said.. The law does not spell out what visibly intoxicated means. A person with MS could be construed as a VIP. So basically it is unenforceable. "He looked fine to me officer." Alcohol servers do take courses in responsible alcohol management but we are not required to give field sobriety tests...
Besides this law is one that deals with hypotheticals.. Possibly commiting a crime.. |
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