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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:18:24 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
What model SIG was used in the tests? Anyone know? P250. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:20:17 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Yeah and Glock is in some tax trouble with the IRS, so giving them more government contract wouldn't be the greatest idea. ETA: for link http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_38/b4147036107809.htm Not paying taxes is what this administration looks for. Glock is a shoe-in! |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:21:25 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I bought a NIB SIG P220 SAS about 2 years ago. It was the most picky gun on ammo. It would not accept S&B, WWB, or any other low cost ammo without a feed failure every other round. It sickened me. All this hype about how great SIGs are and stuff and the first one I buy wont even feed practice ammo. I sold it the next day. That's just it...Sigs were pretty darn good guns, some of the best on the market. A lot of people simply don't realize that it's a different company now. They can still make some very good guns...they just produce a lot more lemons than they ever did before. That means that a gentleman I know plunked down 1 grand on a railed P226 E2 that came complete with a trigger that wouldn't reset out of the box. The last time I talked to him the gun had been back twice and was still not working. He told me he planned to get rid of it ASAP. That wouldn't have happened at the old Sig....the one people remember...the one people formed opinions about. If you like Sigs, by all means buy one of the classic series guns. Even the Sig Pro model pistols are pretty darn good from what I've seen, especially for the money. Just avoid the P250 and be prepared for the classic gun to require attention from the factory to run right. The P250 is hopeless, but the other guns can still work acceptably. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:23:04 AM EDT
[#4]
It is a shame that Sig has gone so downhill in QC. That being said...if you can find a P6, buy it.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:24:15 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: I haven't met a single person, who has owned a Mosquito who has had anything good to say about them. They are very ammo picky. With ammo it likes however they are very reliable. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:25:36 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What model SIG was used in the tests? Anyone know? P250. I heard those are shit anyway, still sucks though |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:25:46 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I haven't met a single person, who has owned a Mosquito who has had anything good to say about them. They are very ammo picky. With ammo it likes however they are very reliable. mine works fine with minimag |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:30:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What model SIG was used in the tests? Anyone know? P250. I held one of those once at Sportsmans Warehouse. It felt like crap. I could squeeze it and the plastic would bend in my hand. The guy at the counter said he hated them and they had sold one and the guy got rid of it within a week IIRC. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:33:18 AM EDT
[#9]
I don't know who is ultimately going to win the ATF contract, but as you can see from this little snippet of info about the testing the M&P fared very well in the test. There's a reason why I own 5 6 of them now.
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:38:58 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: The ATFE has no business with armed employees. Use the US Marshall's Service, we don't need more redundancy. An added layer of bureauracracy between us and other government agencies can't hurt. This was brought up in another thread where there is confusion during bomb scares because the FBI and ATF are pulling the jurisdiction card and the locals have no idea who's really in charge. My solution is to the problem is to defund the ATF completely. 
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:41:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Wow, my SIGs have never malfunctioned, they must have some stupid shooters  lot of limp wrists.. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:43:29 AM EDT
[#12]
I guess what works for the USN SEALs just isn't professional enough for the ATF.
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:44:59 AM EDT
[#13]
Sig needs to go back to not using MIM parts and firing their shitty Kimber CEO
Sig quality control varies from gun to gun at the moment |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:47:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Hell, Kimber still sucks balls.
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:54:26 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I guess what works for the USN SEALs just isn't professional enough for the ATF. The gun the Seals get is not the same they were testing. And I'm sure it has certan stuff done to them as per Soccom request. I would it might be price. Sigs are expensive. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 9:55:19 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
I wonder if there will be any big, if any, improvements that will make .40cal Glocks on par with the 9mm models. I doubt it. IMO, the top two pistol companies in the market right now are Smith & Wesson (for their M&P product line) and H&K (for their P-series and HK45 series weapons). Springfield Armory doesn't appear to be doing to bad with the XD/XDM product line, either. They aren't necessarily HSLD pistols but I read more compliments about the XD family than I read complaints so, apparently, SA must be doing something right. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:01:20 AM EDT
[#17]
This is no surprise to me. The quality of their guns has gone to shit since they took the DHS contract. The finish that goes on the trigger, hammer, sights, mag release, and slide stop is absolute shit when it comes to a salt water environment and rust no matter how much you PMS them. The M9 was far and above, better than the P229DAKr. The grip screws constantly back out and the recoil springs have the center wire already protruding over a quarter inch past the 8th of an inch that they are supposed to. Those are brand new factory guns that have to have the recoil springs replaced. Ridiculous.
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:06:10 AM EDT
[#18]
Should of gotten a Glock.
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:10:29 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I guess what works for the USN SEALs just isn't professional enough for the ATF. Don't buy into the brand name hype. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:11:46 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: SIG's QC has gone to shit over the past few years, I blame the dude they hired from Kimber, but it could be another reason. I've seen some pistols that honestly shouldn't have been delivered. There are other negative stories regarding current quality from friends of mine who use them in a professional manner and shoot, a lot. It's a shame, they used to be great pistols, I think highly of my older ones. no, I'm pretty sure you have it right This. However, My Sigs work fine, in fact my 2009 model 229 SCT is more reliable than my west german p220. I haven't had a single problem with the new 229, but had a few feeding/ejecting issues with the WG 220, even after replacing springs, etc. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:15:18 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Should of gotten a Glock. Not if this is for .40S&W pistols. I think the 2 best .40S&W pistols on the market right now are the HK P30/P2000 with the LEM trigger and the S&W M&P40. S&W seems to be doing really well so I would expect similar reliability to the HK pistols and S&W has an edge on price. The M&P makes a lot of sense for a departmental issue firearm. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:23:31 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah and Glock is in some tax trouble with the IRS, so giving them more government contract wouldn't be the greatest idea. ETA: for link http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_38/b4147036107809.htm Holy shit. How'd I miss that? 
I think I'm gonna buy another one just for that. I distrust anything from bloomberg. 
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:31:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: I wonder what user-induced failures they had? I wouldn't suspect limp wristing because the plastic guns are usually the easiest to limp. Just more ammo against Sig as of late. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile if the ATF would quit modifying firearms, they wouldnt have this problem  |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:35:46 AM EDT
[#24]
I think I'll keep my West German P226 as its never missed a beat, running neck and neck with My HK's for shot reliability
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:37:26 AM EDT
[#25]
Well shit its a 250 no wonder. I was like no fucking way those are 226,229, or 220s.
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:37:42 AM EDT
[#26]
Hmmm my M&P had FTF right out of the box due to a burr on the extractor that was catching the the rim of the case.
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:40:30 AM EDT
[#27]
So its Glock vs. M&P now.
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:43:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
So its Glock vs. M&P now. Yup. The FBI already issues .40 caliber Glocks. It wouldn't be a stretch to see the BATFE do the same...but frankly I think they'd be better off with the M&P, as the M&P in .40 seems to run very well from all reports I've seen or heard of. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:43:14 AM EDT
[#29]
I have a sig 9mm w.german 225. It has caught a shell every now and again in the slide. But that was all my fault. Most of it happend when I first got it. Limp wristing is a bitch. Teach the atf how to shoot
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:45:39 AM EDT
[#30]
Go Smith & Wesson!
Never thought I'd be saying that several years ago.  |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:47:59 AM EDT
[#31]
I think, more than anything, the lesson learned here is that "quality" can be a constantly moving target.
Be it a brand or specific model, what was the cat's meow five years ago can be a total dud at a later date - or the opposite. Why many gun and automobile owners cannot wrap their heads around this concept really amazes me. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:48:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
I think I'll keep my West German P226 as its never missed a beat, running neck and neck with My HK's for shot reliability Try running 400 rounds of defensive ammo through it. If it runs without one glitch, you have a keeper. Else, chuck it. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:48:49 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Wow, my SIGs have never malfunctioned, they must have some stupid shooters Right, it's everyone else not the shitty quality firearms Sig has been producing since Cohen took the helm. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 10:54:55 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've been telling people for quite some time that the P250's were absolutely dismal weapons that were flaming out in spectacular fashion in a high profile test....this was the test. Now hopefully all the dinguses who insisted that I was just making shit up will read the goddamn report and perhaps conclude that I just might know what the fuck I'm talking about. The report doesn't have all the information relevant to the P250 in it, but you can get a glimpse of how things were going in the GAO report. The FAMS are still having problems with the P250's they bought...and I've even heard that the ones that were issued are being taken back and the P229's they replaced are being re-issued. I was thinking that it was the 250 since the GAO report mentions that the Sig pistol tested offered design features not available with the S&W and Glock. I was struggling to come up with something that the P22X series offered in terms of the design features so described that were not at least semi-satisfactorily offered by the other two designs. Obviously, the ATF places a lower priority on the "modularity" of the P250. Second-strike capability. The 250 is a hammer gun. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:01:21 AM EDT
[#35]
The more I read the more I wonder if I got lucky with the SigPro 9mm I bought a couple of months ago. It has been pretty good thru 800 rds so far. it is the only Sig I've owned but I keep hearing that Sig has gone to hell in a handbasket.
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:05:49 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So its Glock vs. M&P now. Yup. The FBI already issues .40 caliber Glocks. It wouldn't be a stretch to see the BATFE do the same...but frankly I think they'd be better off with the M&P, as the M&P in .40 seems to run very well from all reports I've seen or heard of. Agreed...The M&P40 is a GREAT gun 
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:09:22 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
The more I read the more I wonder if I got lucky with the SigPro 9mm I bought a couple of months ago. It has been pretty good thru 800 rds so far. it is the only Sig I've owned but I keep hearing that Sig has gone to hell in a handbasket. I've got a sigpro 2022 in 9mm as well, and I've yet to have a single ftf/fte with it, even in the hands of 3 different people who had never fired a handgun previously. Academy had them on sale for $400 new the other day, I almost bought a second one. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:09:46 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So its Glock vs. M&P now. Yup. The FBI already issues .40 caliber Glocks. It wouldn't be a stretch to see the BATFE do the same...but frankly I think they'd be better off with the M&P, as the M&P in .40 seems to run very well from all reports I've seen or heard of. Agreed...The M&P40 is a GREAT gun Glocks are already established with a great reputation. I find it unlikely that S&W will dethrone them. This coming from a MP9 owner. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:19:17 AM EDT
[#39]
I like my 226 9mm.... but I carry a G17.
Also, the ATF needs to be dissolved. Hand over the "A" and the "T" side of things to the FDA, or the DEA if you must... and then hand over firearms regulation to the FBI. They already do the NICS checks anyhow. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:22:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Go Smith & Wesson! Never thought I'd be saying that several years ago. They were stupid and Glock hung them out to dry. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:24:49 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: My Sig's personally have never failed me, but maybe Sig needs to up their QC game... Several years ago, a local agency dumped a lot of money into Sig 226s for everybody. The guns didn't even make it a year before they were traded in on Glocks. The agency felt that the threat to their officers due to the guns' lack of reliability, coupled with a massive lack of customer service, was significant enough to take a big hit in the wallet. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:34:38 AM EDT
[#42]
My old 228 has had over 5000 rounds thru it without a failure (my glock 19 cannot come close to making that claim, I get failures around every ~200 rounds with it.).
The new Sigs must really suck in comparison to the old ones. 
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:34:52 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Seems to be a lot of that going around lately . 
It gets worse....anyone remember the Sig Navy guns? Those were originally the idea of a member of SOF who approached a former Sig employee about doing them. The Sig employee put all of it together with a portion of the proceeds going to a charity for wounded members of SOF. The Navy guns were to be built entirely to NSWG's specs. Nobody at Sig expected them to sell...but they sold like hotcakes. So after the initial run of true NSWG guns that dedicated a portion of the proceeds to the charity for wounded members of SOF, some people at Sig decided to keep the little anchor logo as a marketing tool, but nevermind building the guns to NSWG spec or donating any of the proceeds to that charity anymore! So they still sold "Navy" guns that were nothing like the originals...but they didn't tell the people buying them any of that. Sig is at record levels of profitability. How do you know if you got one of the orginal NSWG guns, and not the "knockoffs". My old man, former Army that retired from Bragg, picked one up from an SF buddy, he was told it was the real deal. Is there a serial number range to check? |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:35:31 AM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:40:21 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
I'd be interested in what the 45 shooter-induced stoppages were, and why the shooters induced them. ATF faggotry would be my guess. I own some SIGs, and I've NEVER had a problem with them except some of my crappy reloads. You have to be a limp wristed pussy to jam a SIG. I'd say it's a training (or lack thereof) issue more so than a gun issue. But, I hope BATFE takes the Glocks. Higher chance of them blowing themselves up when they pull the trigger. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:42:22 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Wow, my SIGs have never malfunctioned, they must have some stupid shooters +1 |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:44:14 AM EDT
[#47]
I've tested my P238 and a few other Sig pistols with limp wristing. Hold firm - fire - perfect. Limp - FTE/FTF - bad. It's 100% predictable, and no matter which ammo you use.
Limp wristed faggots. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:48:10 AM EDT
[#48]
Well well, I just bought a 226 on the name factor. Brother has an older model as well as my pal. Will have to test it out and see if I got a lemon or a shooter...
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:49:53 AM EDT
[#49]
I too have an old (89 I think) P226 and no problems with about 4 different types of ammo. I did install the recoil spring backwards once and that resulted in failure to lock back on last round (dooh!).
It does sound like it may be a frame issue. Plastic is much less forgiving than steel or even aluminum. Most of the problems you hear about on SAWs and M60s are due to the sheet steel recievers bending as they get too old. I guess you could have the same problem with a too flexy plastic frame. Doesn't the Customs Service also use P250s or SigPros? I went through customs recently and thought that was what they were carrying. Sure looked like Sig grips. |
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Posted: 8/19/2010 11:50:55 AM EDT
[#50]
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