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Posted: 1/11/2018 5:36:44 PM EDT
What is their reasoning that a rifle with a stock and an 11.5" barrel does not need a tax stamp?

According to the NFA an SBR is any firearm with a buttstock that has a rifled barrel of less than sixteen inches, or an overall length of less than twenty six inches. The total length is measured in the extended position. However, Franklin Armory found a shocking loophole.
View Quote
https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2018/01/11/franklin-armory-introduces-short-barrel-firearm-standard-ar-stock-atf-approval/
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:39:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Hmmmm
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:39:22 PM EDT
[#2]
In for the explanation as well, lol.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:39:51 PM EDT
[#3]
Just came here myself to find out what the secret is.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:41:06 PM EDT
[#4]
After 11" doesn't it break the 26" OAL rule and is therefore not a pistol?

I think it changes to a "firearm" at that point. But I was always under the impression that a "firearm" cant have a stock

Please oh please be something like this, as my shorty FAL should be over 26"
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:41:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Is it a black powder muzzle loader?
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:41:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Non-rifled barrel? Some new kinda tech in play?
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:42:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Magnets?
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:43:32 PM EDT
[#8]
In for more info.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:43:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:43:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Hmm
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:44:09 PM EDT
[#11]
I find it hard to believe that someone discovered something before the barracks lawyers of ArfCom did...
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:44:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Non-rifled barrel? Some new kinda tech in play?
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That's what I was thinking too. Maybe they found a way to put a twist in the barrel and not have rifling that is still able to stabilize a bullet?
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:44:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

That is my understanding also...
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I know you can get away with have a VFG on "firearms" since they are over 26"
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:44:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Pretty sure Franklin Armory somebody is trolling the ATF.

ETA: This product is not on Franklin's website
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:00 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm guessing it has to do with the red doohickey shown under the selector.

Not sure how that would change anything though.

ETA: OK, that's their normal binary trigger indicator.  If they rig their triggers to only fire in binary mode with no single fire option, does that make it not a rifle by definition?
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:02 PM EDT
[#16]
I don't even care what the loophole or reasoning is, I'm just glad firearms companies are so interested in joining us in fucking with the NFA instead of joining the government to fuck with gun owners like they did in the 90s.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Last inch of barrel is smooth bore?
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I find it hard to believe that someone discovered something before the barracks lawyers of ArfCom did...
View Quote
Maybe the ATF is finally getting tired of processing form 1s for SBRs?
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Non-rifled barrel? Some new kinda tech in play?
View Quote
Sweet. So it shoots like a Mini-14?
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:15 PM EDT
[#20]
A non-rifled barrel would be so shitty... Fine for mag dumps though I guess.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:40 PM EDT
[#21]
tag
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:46:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
After 11" doesn't it break the 26" OAL rule and is therefore not a pistol?

I think it changes to a "firearm" at that point. But I was always under the impression that a "firearm" cant have a stock

Please oh please be something like this, as my shorty FAL should be over 26"
View Quote
If that's the case stamps wouldn't be needed for 12" , 13.7 or 14.5"" ? None of this makes sense the atf is fucking dumb
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:46:51 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm guessing it has something to do with the rifling, because the OAL requirement is tough to engineer a solution to.

Just can't imagine how rifling could ever be significantly modified to result in a gun worth owning.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:47:38 PM EDT
[#24]
According to the NFA an SBR is any firearm with a buttstock that has a rifled barrel of less than sixteen inches, or an overall length of less than twenty six inches. The total length is measured in the extended position. However, Franklin Armory found a shocking loophole.
View Quote
smooth bore, no lands/grooves ?
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:47:51 PM EDT
[#25]
There has to be a catch otherwise whats stopping anyone out there from building something like this?

Shit one of my SBR's is setup nearly identically to this, down to the SL stock, just a different rail on the 11.5" barrel

No way its smoothbore, that would be pants on head retarded.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:48:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

If that's the case stamps wouldn't be needed for 12" , 13.7 or 14.5"" ? None of this makes sense the atf is fucking dumb
View Quote
No joke

I hope its not smooth bore though

That would be dumb
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:49:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Non-rifled barrel? Some new kinda tech in play?
View Quote
Polygonal broach.  No actual rifling? Just a guess.  Interesting!
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:49:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Smooth bore barrel BUT muzzle device is rifled.

Muzzle device is not considered part of barrel or the length of barrel or length of anything.

Just after the bullet leaves the muzzle it is given a twist by the muzzle device.

This is my crazy guess????????????
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:49:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

No joke

I hope its not smooth bore though

That would be dumb
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Maybe they have new ammo for it... like rifled slugs

WTF is it going to be other than half stupid?
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:50:31 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Maybe they have new ammo for it... like rifled slugs

WTF is it going to be other than half stupid?
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Im hoping for a game changer, like the braces were
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:50:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Last inch of barrel is smooth bore?
View Quote
or the opposite and the "barrel" is classified as a muzzle device that is rifled
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:50:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Smooth bore barrel BUT muzzle device is rifled.

Muzzle device is not considered part of barrel or the length of barrel or length of anything.

Just after the bullet leaves the muzzle it is given a twist by the muzzle device.

This is my crazy guess????????????
View Quote
So 0.5 inch barrel with a 11 inch rifled muzzle device?
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:50:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Lol, I think I know what it is, and they hit the loophole of loopholes if it is what I think.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:51:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Smooth bore barrel BUT muzzle device is rifled.

Muzzle device is not considered part of barrel or the length of barrel or length of anything.

Just after the bullet leaves the muzzle it is given a twist by the muzzle device.

This is my crazy guess????????????
View Quote
11.5" leade?  Not sure how comfortable I'd be shooting that...
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:51:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:51:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Tag for later
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:51:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Sign me up. I would love to build a bunch of "firearms" at home. Needs more information first.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:51:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lol, I think I know what it is, and they hit the loophole of loopholes if it is what I think.
View Quote
Don't hold back
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:52:04 PM EDT
[#39]
I don't see the wizzardry.

>26"OAL and <16" rifled barrel =SBR

11.5" barrel
7.25" receiver
>8.25" extended length on the stock
-----------
>26" OAL.

Or the barrel isn't rifled.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:52:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Interesting.  Tagged for updates.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:52:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Franklin's done this before with their XO-26 "not a rifle/pistol/aow" thingy.

I'm interested, to say the least.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:52:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Interested.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:52:48 PM EDT
[#43]
In for the answer...
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:52:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lol, I think I know what it is, and they hit the loophole of loopholes if it is what I think.
View Quote
So much info.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:53:02 PM EDT
[#45]
In for the answer...
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:53:15 PM EDT
[#46]
In.
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:53:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Smooth bore
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:53:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Some sort of loophole for sure, this isnt their first time sneaking one through

2011
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:53:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Smooth bore, but using a rifled slug?  Or a rifled saboted slug?
Link Posted: 1/11/2018 5:54:17 PM EDT
[#50]
In before we taunt and pester the ATF.

Go get them, boys. Ruin this one, too.
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