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Posted: 3/14/2011 8:27:33 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: The American Dream was never to take on huge amounts of debt to finance your current lifestyle. I think she needs to look up what the American Dream means. What she means is that what we've done with debt and entitlements will destroy the dream of the responsible because society as a whole has the weight of finding ways to pay it all back, this takes away from the upward mobility which we've enjoyed. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 8:29:35 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Crazy, me and another arfcomer were talking about that very same thing yesterday. What's even worse is that you can't find part time jobs because of the high minimum wage has priced young, inexperienced people out of the job market. Some of us have realized the American dream and are living it. However, for many, especially the younger ones, it grows increasingly difficult to achieve. First, anyone going to college can't simply work their way through school anymore. In my days, you could take a part time job, make money to pay for your semester and your books and other fees. With college costing as much as $20-30k a year, that's virtually impossible and it's not unusual for a kid to graduate with $100k in debt. Now, throw in the bad economy and no middle class jobs with which they can start to pay off their school loans. A lot of middle class jobs have been outsourced overseas. Initially it was production jobs and now it's office jobs. Our medical records can be overseas as is software design and development. That 44 million Americans are now on food stamps speaks volumes for how bad off the economy is and every college graduate enters a market that is already saturated with experienced talent. If two college grads get married and have a combined debt of $200k, then how do they even start saving up for a down payment on a house? It's possible if those "kids" were medical doctors, airline pilots and other high paying salaries. It's also possible if they were both police officers in a major metropolitan area. If one was in the oil drilling work, there will be big money in that when oil hits $200 barrel. If they were lawyers, they may be able to sue their way into middle class (but that's just taking money from others who had it and not producing tangible goods). Nope, the dream is becoming harder and harder to attain. We're actually in a depression and it will take about twenty years to recover. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 8:30:04 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: I actually agree with her, but she's not saying the American Dream is dead, just the strive to look wealthy bastardization of the dream. Good. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This. And I for one am glad it's dead. If you got caught up in the whole bling bling keeping up with the Jones'es craze and your now bankrupt well too dam bad. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 8:31:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Not the "American Dream" that built America...........................
Entitlement and Immediate Gratification needs to be returned to Hardwork, Savings and Thriftines. Everybody wants everything right NOW, not in 9 mos when they've actually saved up for the big screen TV. Our Grandparents hardly knew the word "credit" but look how well they have done. Somebody put polluted these last two generations' brains with materialism and greed....... At least the Greed in minds of previous generations drove them to work harder, unlike the fascade of wealth of the new. Money is there if you chose to work for it. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 8:39:15 AM EDT
[#5]
She's a lesbo. That has nothing to do with the validity of her statement, just FYI.
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Posted: 3/14/2011 8:43:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2058086,00.html#ixzz1GaGw1yR9 In the book you write, "The American dream as we knew it is dead." What did you mean by that? The American dream transformed over the past few years. Itbecame a dream of bigger, better, newer. How do you buy stuff without anymoney? It was leverage. It was this American financial fantasyland. We wereall trying to keep up with the Joneses. We were all trying to do things thatwe never should have done. And that American dream turned into the greatestfinancial nightmare of all time. You can't get a loan. You can't get a job.You can't get credit. So the old American dream really is dead. When Suzy Orman says "stick a fork in it", that's a bad sign. She's wrong. Living beyond one's means was never the American Dream. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 8:43:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Horseshit. Banks around here were dying to lend me money for my startup. You just have to spend a little more time than you used to proving you can pay it back. Due diligence by both parties. They all told me they had tons of money to lend, but no one wanted to borrow because they didn't have a legitimate way to pay it back, or didn't have cash or collateral to put down. JUST LIKE IT FUCKING USED TO BE. Yes the economy is still bad. No it isn't the end of the American Dream. If you have an idea, you can still chase it. It still takes hard work, creativity and good sense to make it happen, just like it always has. Start out slow, save your money, invest wisely. JUST LIKE OUR GRANDPARENTS HAD TO. Fuck Suze Orman, that big-mouthed dyke. You can't claim that because we can't do all the stupid things we shouldn't have been doing anymore, that this somehow makes the American Dream dead. It will be a new frontier. Success will only be had by those who work the hardest and are the smartest at what they do. I have no problem with this. nice - good for you! I just refinanced my house and it was like pulling teeth. It took 3 months and the banks took a hairy eyeball at everything. In fact they sabotaged our home valuation. We have Tier 1 credit and we weren't asking for stupid money. It made no sense. It made me wonder how I'd get financing for the business my wife and I hope to start in the next couple of years.  The experience really soured us.
We contribute to the bailouts, the banks have zero risk because they get money from the .gov... yet they stick it to us, the little guys. Again.  Business plan, develop a good one. I had letters of intent from 2 different companies, along with guaranteed minimums that easily cover operations written into our contracts with them for the next 5 years. If it works for you, it will work for the bank. If the projections in your plan are fantasy numbers, then you shouldn't be doing it, and the bank shouldn't be backing you. And they most certainly won't. The problem with credit is it used to be all you needed so people assume having it means the red carpet gets rolled out for you. These days you can go from good credit to financial ruin in months if not weeks, banks know this. We also are dealing with local banks who isn't necessarily forced to operate under the same guidelines as a larger bank. The new game is about spreading the risk out, positioning yourself and the bank to have little or none at all. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 8:58:07 AM EDT
[#8]
I'm a Doctor, not a Keynesian Economist
...and it's dead Jim. Quoted: I'm a Physician, not a magician. It's dead Jim.  |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 9:15:18 AM EDT
[#9]
What a bunch of whiny pussies ...
American Dream is what you make of it for yourself ... fucking crybabies boo hoo-ing because some fucking dyke tells you to ... you aint happy here ... go to that imaginary place where everything is so much better ... |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 9:25:23 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
What a bunch of whiny pussies ... American Dream is what you make of it for yourself ... fucking crybabies boo hoo-ing because some fucking dyke tells you to ... you aint happy here ... go to that imaginary place where everything is so much better ... You seem happy. I think I will take all my advice from you. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 9:49:19 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
The "American Dream" as she describes it was built on greed. No wonder it's dying. We should try building it out of hard work and sacrifice while accepting that it isn't going to be 5000 square feet with a four-car garage. That is if we haven't taken so much of the collective easy-credit approach and turned our currency into worthless toilet paper already. As a nation, we need to stop spending and start producing value again or we are finished. In 10-15 years at the most, none of us will have any retirement savings worth squat and our currency will be good campfire starter unless we face reality in the next year or two to drastically reign-in our Government. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 10:12:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
The real American Dream is not dead. There are just not that many people willing to work hard enough to get it. WTF? Why would you work to the point of having the government take 75% of all you make? TXL |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 10:21:58 AM EDT
[#13]
I know its fun to rage at the liberal lesbian from San Fran but some of you guys need to read the OP so you understand that Orman's not saying the American Dream was supposed to be built on consumer debt.
 If you don't care and just want to be mad at something or someone I guess that's an option too.
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Posted: 3/14/2011 10:33:38 AM EDT
[#14]
The American Dream is one of opportunity. Capitalism and the Constitution provide the dream.
Both are alive and well in America. Suzi Orman can take her notion of the American Dream being dead and cram it up her arse. Being able to make something of yourself, to the degree that you're willing to work for it, is what the American Dream is all about. It's never been about being able to borrow enough to get what you want, or need. I'm fucking TIRED of these socialist SHILLS telling everyone "it's over". It's only "over" for the assholes who perverted the American Dream into some sort of debtor prison. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 10:36:56 AM EDT
[#15]
This is what happens when everyone is given a blue ribbon.
Allow failure to fail... 
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Posted: 3/14/2011 10:49:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
The American Dream is one of opportunity. Capitalism and the Constitution provide the dream. Both are alive and well in America. Suzi Orman can take her notion of the American Dream being dead and cram it up her arse. Being able to make something of yourself, to the degree that you're willing to work for it, is what the American Dream is all about. It's never been about being able to borrow enough to get what you want, or need. I'm fucking TIRED of these socialist SHILLS telling everyone "it's over". It's only "over" for the assholes who perverted the American Dream into some sort of debtor prison. Her point was that the American Dream was bastardized. Like it or not, the economy and the very soul of our country got a good fucking from a macro attitude that everyone had to have more, bigger, and better...mainly for the purpose of impressing others. And now that's over due to the global debt implosion. Suze Orman may be a socialist at heart, I don't know, but she makes millions teaching people how to manage and save their money. Your anger is more constructively directed at the people who actually caused this problem. She's not one of them. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 10:50:42 AM EDT
[#17]
The problem is that instead of being the American Dream,it because the American Promise.
Not only did everyone think that they were supposed to have a big house,2 cars,big screen TV,take a vacation every year, eat out 3 nights per week...you were a failure if you didn't do it. I honestly know next to no people under the age of 45 who aren't currently under water. *Maybe* 20% of my friends actually have something in savings but a full 80% have at least a couple grand in CC debt,have car payments etc. Some of them are in bad shape: $20k in CC debt and only making $35k a year 
Again,the big banks can be blamed,media can be blamed,the government can be blamed...but ultimately it comes down to Americans making bad choices. I shit you not,the people I know who're doing the best right now are immigrants who came from countries that have far less. Perhaps even worse than the middle class overly extending their means of living,we've willingly created an entire subculture that thinks it is their right to reproduce children that need to be paid for by everyone else. We've got to put a stop to this shit at some point but when we do,it's gonna be ugly. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 11:07:47 AM EDT
[#18]
In the book you write, "The American dream as we knew it is dead." What did you mean by that?
The American dream transformed over the past few years. It became a dream of bigger, better, newer. How do you buy stuff without any money? It was leverage. It was this American financial fantasyland. We were all trying to keep up with the Joneses. We were all trying to do things that we never should have done. And that American dream turned into the greatest financial nightmare of all time. You can't get a loan. You can't get a job. You can't get credit. So the old American dream really is dead. The Old American Dream isn't dead. She showed that the New American Dream is dead. I don't have a problem with that. Further down in the article, she recommended that you live below your means. If you do that, you can still have the American Dream - just don't think it's an annual trip to Paris, a new car every 2 years, and the latest, greatest tech toy every month. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 11:09:39 AM EDT
[#19]
The American Dream of swimming in debt until you drown can die a horrendous death, as far as I care.
We're part of the new American Dream, feasting on the remains of fools. I just picked up a hella big house for a song on forclosure. We both busted our asses through school and don't have much debt. We live very comfortably, well below our means. So screw Suzi and her bloated dream of FAIL. I grow fat off her carcass. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 11:19:43 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I actually agree with her, but she's not saying the American Dream is dead, just the strive to look wealthy bastardization of the dream. Good. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 11:22:24 AM EDT
[#21]
She's right.
-The economic opportunity isn't there. -Higher education is extremely expensive. -We have fewer freedoms than in the recent past. (Go ahead and say what you REALLY think about race relations or the federal government online or at work and see what happens to you. Tell your company how important Christianity is to you and wait for the whispers to start, etc.) -We have less privacy than in the recent past. - We work more (and both spouses) than in the recent past. -Our money is worth less than it was. -Our country is going to default financially. -Everything points to all of this getting only worse, not better. There is no question we are devolving. She is right. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 11:30:34 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
She's right. -The economic opportunity isn't there. -Higher education is extremely expensive. -We have fewer freedoms than in the recent past. (Go ahead and say what you REALLY think about race relations or the federal government online or at work and see what happens to you. Tell your company how important Christianity is to you and wait for the whispers to start, etc.) -We have less privacy than in the recent past. - We work more (and both spouses) than in the recent past. -Our money is worth less than it was. -Our country is going to default financially. -Everything points to all of this getting only worse, not better. There is no question we are devolving. She is right. Yes, she is correct. Every dog has it's day, and it would seem that we had ours. We are in decline, but who cares. What does it matter in the big scheme of things? Nothing last forever, and in the scope of time we are but a blip and our lives will be over soon enough ( in relation to time ). You will be forgotten and life will go on. I just don't get upset about it anymore. It just doesn't matter. 
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Posted: 3/14/2011 11:43:20 AM EDT
[#23]
I don't have time to dream. I'm too busy being bled dry by the government to support everyone else's dreams. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 11:46:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: The American Dream is one of opportunity. Capitalism and the Constitution provide the dream. Both are alive and well in America. Suzi Orman can take her notion of the American Dream being dead and cram it up her arse. Being able to make something of yourself, to the degree that you're willing to work for it, is what the American Dream is all about. It's never been about being able to borrow enough to get what you want, or need. I'm fucking TIRED of these socialist SHILLS telling everyone "it's over". It's only "over" for the assholes who perverted the American Dream into some sort of debtor prison. Her point was that the American Dream was bastardized. Like it or not, the economy and the very soul of our country got a good fucking from a macro attitude that everyone had to have more, bigger, and better...mainly for the purpose of impressing others. And now that's over due to the global debt implosion. Suze Orman may be a socialist at heart, I don't know, but she makes millions teaching people how to manage and save their money. Your anger is more constructively directed at the people who actually caused this problem. She's not one of them. Well then, Ms. Orman should be smart enough to be able to verbalize the clear distinction between The American Dream, and the bastardization of the American Dream. However, to declare the American Dream as "over" is defeatist and at it's core completely incorrect. Many are still living it. Many never lost sight of what the REAL American Dream is.....opportunity to be as successful as you want to be..as successful as you're willing to work hard for it. Yep, free credit, participation ribbons, and equal outcome for all is definitely over. That isn't, and never was, the American Dream, ergo, the American Dream is still very much alive and well for those who understand it. Yep, life is hard. Yep, nothing good is EVER free. Opportunity, hard work, along with a bit of luck here and there, and you can go as far and be as successful as you want to be. Still holds true here in America. If Ms. Orman is so fucking smart, perhaps she would be able to put together a cognitive series of statements and opinions that doesn't sound like another liberal whining because "their free stuff is over" and she'd be able to articulate just exactly what she meant. News Flash: The American Dream is NOT over, the free ride is. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 11:46:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
I'm raising the Bullshit flag on this one. Out here in small town America where I live "The American Dream" was never defined by living in a 3000 sq ft house, and driving a german car. The American Dream that people had 30 or 40 years ago (a modest house, car, have a few extras in life, and raise your kids and get them an education) is still alive and well - for people who are willing to learn a trade or get an education. No you can't get a factory job out of high school and earn a living wage for the rest of your life like you could back in those days. Well times change. Adapt or get left behind. This. We live in a small paid off house. Pay cash for a new car every 10 years. Credit card bills are paid as soon as they comes in. We take well planned out vacations every 2 years. Kids go to community college, have an after school job and work through the summer except for a week off. My friends that lived the other dream are in debt up to their ass and have marital problems as expectations could not keep up with reality. It's not what you make...it's what you keep after expenses. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 11:54:45 AM EDT
[#26]
"What ever happened to the American dream?"
"It came true! You're looking at it." |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 11:56:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
I guess it has to go back to an older model: Work hard, and smart. Save every penny you can. Build real wealth instead of borrowing it on a promise you can't be assured of keeping. You know...the way my parents did it. They made their way to millionaire status without taking out loans to do it. No, the American dream is not dead. But it will no longer be available on credit. Frankly, I think it's now as it should be. I have no fear of what the future holds for me financially. I'll be fine. Maybe not rich, but comfortable enough. CJ I would do all of that if I could actually GET A FUCKING JOB 
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Posted: 3/14/2011 12:01:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
The dream is only dead among the socialist/communist/state unions in this country who have worked very hard to destroy it. Usually the feelings are stronger in the northeast where those groups rain supreme. Bear in mind that their American Dream was that they would be able to study Feminist Hermeneutics and Queer Theory while practicing Artisanal Gluten-Free Breadmaking and agitating on behalf of superfertile ne'er-do-wells while we paid for all of it. I hope to God that that American Dream is dead and buried with a stake through its whole grain heart. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 12:02:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2058086,00.html#ixzz1GaGw1yR9 In the book you write, "The American dream as we knew it is dead." What did you mean by that? The American dream transformed over the past few years. Itbecame a dream of bigger, better, newer. How do you buy stuff without anymoney? It was leverage. It was this American financial fantasyland. We wereall trying to keep up with the Joneses. We were all trying to do things thatwe never should have done. And that American dream turned into the greatestfinancial nightmare of all time. You can't get a loan. You can't get a job.You can't get credit. So the old American dream really is dead. When Suzy Orman says "stick a fork in it", that's a bad sign. You're an idiot if you base anything on what that hack says. She's the financial Tony Robins. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 12:02:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The American Dream is one of opportunity. Capitalism and the Constitution provide the dream. Both are alive and well in America. Suzi Orman can take her notion of the American Dream being dead and cram it up her arse. Being able to make something of yourself, to the degree that you're willing to work for it, is what the American Dream is all about. It's never been about being able to borrow enough to get what you want, or need. I'm fucking TIRED of these socialist SHILLS telling everyone "it's over". It's only "over" for the assholes who perverted the American Dream into some sort of debtor prison. Her point was that the American Dream was bastardized. Like it or not, the economy and the very soul of our country got a good fucking from a macro attitude that everyone had to have more, bigger, and better...mainly for the purpose of impressing others. And now that's over due to the global debt implosion. Suze Orman may be a socialist at heart, I don't know, but she makes millions teaching people how to manage and save their money. Your anger is more constructively directed at the people who actually caused this problem. She's not one of them. Well then, Ms. Orman should be smart enough to be able to verbalize the clear distinction between The American Dream, and the bastardization of the American Dream. However, to declare the American Dream as "over" is defeatist and at it's core completely incorrect. Many are still living it. Many never lost sight of what the REAL American Dream is.....opportunity to be as successful as you want to be..as successful as you're willing to work hard for it. Yep, free credit, participation ribbons, and equal outcome for all is definitely over. That isn't, and never was, the American Dream, ergo, the American Dream is still very much alive and well for those who understand it. Yep, life is hard. Yep, nothing good is EVER free. Opportunity, hard work, along with a bit of luck here and there, and you can go as far and be as successful as you want to be. Still holds true here in America. If Ms. Orman is so fucking smart, perhaps she would be able to put together a cognitive series of statements and opinions that doesn't sound like another liberal whining because "their free stuff is over" and she'd be able to articulate just exactly what she meant. News Flash: The American Dream is NOT over, the free ride is. The media uses attention grabbing headlines like this because they work by playing to people's emotions and getting them all worked up. If you want to let yourself get used by people who play to your emotions that's your call. I'm done. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 12:02:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Meh.
Until she denounces her vote, her party, and Obama and his policies that continue to erode the "american dream", she can go to hell. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 12:03:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't expect to be able to retire because of my age (34) in relation to how this economic disaster is going to be fixed (if ever) becaue some thing are out of my control. I will do all I can to provide for and make make comfortable my family. I certainly don't expect to get to quit just because I've worked for some years. The expectations of people that retire are quite varied. Some want to be able to continue to spend as if they were still working, take lavish vacations, ect. Takes a lot of coin. Me, I chose the debt free, simple life, almost Amish.  It's not for everyone, but I enjoy it.Hey, whatever floats your boat, but it had to hurt like Hell getting that thing stuck through the bridge of your nose. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 12:05:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess it has to go back to an older model: Work hard, and smart. Save every penny you can. Build real wealth instead of borrowing it on a promise you can't be assured of keeping. You know...the way my parents did it. They made their way to millionaire status without taking out loans to do it. No, the American dream is not dead. But it will no longer be available on credit. Frankly, I think it's now as it should be. I have no fear of what the future holds for me financially. I'll be fine. Maybe not rich, but comfortable enough. CJ Bingo, Unfortunately, there are a LOT of people out there used to being able to live a lifestyle well beyond their means. I don't know if they will be able to adapt, or accept that they will have to be who they are. No more BMW's, Rolexes, $500 dinners, and $2500 purses on a salary of $50k a year. Guess we'll find out. +1 If you read the article carefully, that's what Suze Orman is saying. The perception of the American Dream has changed, a new perception that you can max yourself out on credit and plastic and live a financial life well beyond your means. After 2008, that is the dream that is coming to an end. So it comes down to the shocking fact that false values are a dead end. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 12:11:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The unrealistic American dream is dead. Now if they can get intrest back up to 7% so that you can be rewarded for investment. And get the alphabet agencies off of small business owners asses and out of their business. Regulations are the real opportunity killers. This is also what's killing us. FAR too many Americans have been conditioned to believe that the answer to society's ills is more government. Now that half of Americans are benefiting from a larger government, that pendulum is going to be awfully difficult to swing back by voting. Buckle up folks, it will get worse before it gets better.
I was thinking about this today. One cannot seriously consider the possibility that our fathers risked their lives and everything they could ever hope to gain in this life against the mightiest empire on Earth in the hope that someday we, their children, would be nickeled and dimed and counted and classified and ordered about in our own kitchens and yards and shops and offices by unaccountable government drones and pay half our incomes for the privilege. There is not much about our society that they would be happy to recognize or willing to tolerate. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 12:11:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The American Dream is one of opportunity. Capitalism and the Constitution provide the dream. Both are alive and well in America. Suzi Orman can take her notion of the American Dream being dead and cram it up her arse. Being able to make something of yourself, to the degree that you're willing to work for it, is what the American Dream is all about. It's never been about being able to borrow enough to get what you want, or need. I'm fucking TIRED of these socialist SHILLS telling everyone "it's over". It's only "over" for the assholes who perverted the American Dream into some sort of debtor prison. Her point was that the American Dream was bastardized. Like it or not, the economy and the very soul of our country got a good fucking from a macro attitude that everyone had to have more, bigger, and better...mainly for the purpose of impressing others. And now that's over due to the global debt implosion. Suze Orman may be a socialist at heart, I don't know, but she makes millions teaching people how to manage and save their money. Your anger is more constructively directed at the people who actually caused this problem. She's not one of them. Well then, Ms. Orman should be smart enough to be able to verbalize the clear distinction between The American Dream, and the bastardization of the American Dream. However, to declare the American Dream as "over" is defeatist and at it's core completely incorrect. Many are still living it. Many never lost sight of what the REAL American Dream is.....opportunity to be as successful as you want to be..as successful as you're willing to work hard for it. Yep, free credit, participation ribbons, and equal outcome for all is definitely over. That isn't, and never was, the American Dream, ergo, the American Dream is still very much alive and well for those who understand it. Yep, life is hard. Yep, nothing good is EVER free. Opportunity, hard work, along with a bit of luck here and there, and you can go as far and be as successful as you want to be. Still holds true here in America. If Ms. Orman is so fucking smart, perhaps she would be able to put together a cognitive series of statements and opinions that doesn't sound like another liberal whining because "their free stuff is over" and she'd be able to articulate just exactly what she meant. News Flash: The American Dream is NOT over, the free ride is. The media uses attention grabbing headlines like this because they work by playing to people's emotions and getting them all worked up. If you want to let yourself get used by people who play to your emotions that's your call. I'm done. I agree. The "American Dream" has been re-defined by many generations. I'll suggest it may have simply been a refuge for freedom of religion. Perhaps next as a drive for prosperity, or as a source of refuge from abuse from foreign government abuse. Sometime around the 1950' is seemed the "Dream" had morphed into a house with a picket fence. Then the bigger house one couldn't afford without a guarantee or proof one could afford the house, much less the picket fence. The "American Dream", I believe, has been an idea where one may find avenues toward success, if not for the current generation of immigrants, then for their children, With this sense of entitlement, the idea became an ideal, teetering on the course of an ideology. That's where it became derailed. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 12:16:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
The problem is that instead of being the American Dream,it because the American Promise. Not only did everyone think that they were supposed to have a big house,2 cars,big screen TV,take a vacation every year, eat out 3 nights per week...you were a failure if you didn't do it. I honestly know next to no people under the age of 45 who aren't currently under water. *Maybe* 20% of my friends actually have something in savings but a full 80% have at least a couple grand in CC debt,have car payments etc. Some of them are in bad shape: $20k in CC debt and only making $35k a year
Again,the big banks can be blamed,media can be blamed,the government can be blamed...but ultimately it comes down to Americans making bad choices. I shit you not,the people I know who're doing the best right now are immigrants who came from countries that have far less. Perhaps even worse than the middle class overly extending their means of living,we've willingly created an entire subculture that thinks it is their right to reproduce children that need to be paid for by everyone else. We've got to put a stop to this shit at some point but when we do,it's gonna be ugly. Didn't she spend the last ten years explaining how to start with a used rubber and a can of green beans and flip your way into owning a Caribbean island and a Lear jet? |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 12:19:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Yes, she is correct. Every dog has it's day, and it would seem that we had ours. We are in decline, but who cares. What does it matter in the big scheme of things? Nothing last forever, and in the scope of time we are but a blip and our lives will be over soon enough ( in relation to time ). You will be forgotten and life will go on. I just don't get upset about it anymore. It just doesn't matter. What is truly bizarre about the situation is that in order to fix the situation, the government need not do anything or spend any money. It simply needs to stop doing things and quit paying for them. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 12:28:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, she is correct. Every dog has it's day, and it would seem that we had ours. We are in decline, but who cares. What does it matter in the big scheme of things? Nothing last forever, and in the scope of time we are but a blip and our lives will be over soon enough ( in relation to time ). You will be forgotten and life will go on. I just don't get upset about it anymore. It just doesn't matter. What is truly bizarre about the situation is that in order to fix the situation, the government need not do anything or spend any money. It simply needs to stop doing things and quit paying for them. I agree 100%. I just don't see that happening. One big spider web - Too entrenched and too many dependent on it for whatever reason be it the poor, special interests, farmers, the military, etc. etc. I will say I don't think any other country is much better off. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 7:12:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2058086,00.html#ixzz1GaGw1yR9 In the book you write, "The American dream as we knew it is dead." What did you mean by that? The American dream transformed over the past few years. Itbecame a dream of bigger, better, newer. How do you buy stuff without anymoney? It was leverage. It was this American financial fantasyland. We wereall trying to keep up with the Joneses. We were all trying to do things thatwe never should have done. And that American dream turned into the greatestfinancial nightmare of all time. You can't get a loan. You can't get a job.You can't get credit. So the old American dream really is dead. When Suzy Orman says "stick a fork in it", that's a bad sign. Most of the people I know never had that dream...but then again most of the people I know have their own dreams and are doing very well. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 7:18:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
I guess it has to go back to an older model: Work hard, and smart. Save every penny you can. Build real wealth instead of borrowing it on a promise you can't be assured of keeping. You know...the way my parents did it. They made their way to millionaire status without taking out loans to do it. No, the American dream is not dead. But it will no longer be available on credit. Frankly, I think it's now as it should be. I have no fear of what the future holds for me financially. I'll be fine. Maybe not rich, but comfortable enough. CJ What he said in RED.... |
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