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Posted: 4/10/2017 6:40:12 PM EDT

[#1]

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belleville washers are the shit!

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_EhOQGW2GHBg/Sngf58FY0AI/AAAAAAAAHuA/7XVYi9spfRo/BellevilleSprings2.gif

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New one on me.

Posted: 4/10/2017 6:40:17 PM EDT

[#2]

Dupe

Posted: 4/10/2017 6:40:33 PM EDT

[#3]

9/10 for use of "fastenating".

Posted: 4/10/2017 6:41:25 PM EDT

[#4]

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http://mrssa.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/superbolt-1.jpg

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Holy Ft/Lbs of Clever !

Posted: 4/10/2017 6:44:49 PM EDT

[#5]

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Now THAT'S just crazy!! There is a set of pliers just like this mixed in with all the stuff. There's also about 20 pounds of Swagelok fittings, several Starrett calipers and micrometers, thread gauges, a Gerber Scientific variable scale, and lots of wrapped or boxed items I haven't even opened yet.

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Yummmm, Starrett.

Posted: 4/10/2017 6:48:16 PM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:
Don't you Castle Nut, bro?
Used along with a hole in the bolt and a cotter pin to keep it from vibratung off.

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there's a metric shit tonne on helicopters; you had to get good at bending the cotter pins
so they wouldn't snag on stuff,,,,or the TI's would have yer arse,,,,,

eta; i'm kinda suprized i'm the first to mention aircraft use of these,,,they're REEL common on
alot of things that fly,,,,

can someone post a pic of little johnnys sister that's coc ok?

Posted: 4/10/2017 6:52:30 PM EDT

[#7]

You know there is a special armorer tool to spin the wire locks on the nuts on the Ma Deuce...lot of cool specialized armorer tools out there...

Posted: 4/10/2017 6:53:44 PM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
Yummmm, Starrett.

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They're all at least 30-40 years old, but the measuring instruments are in especially good shape. My new (old) cylindrical square is a nice addition.

Posted: 4/10/2017 6:54:50 PM EDT

[#9]

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No, real men simply use 2 1 ball peen ~~large~~ hammers sans the fork

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Quoted:

Real men use pickle forks and sledge hammers.

No, real men simply use 2 1 ball peen ~~large~~ hammers sans the fork

Posted: 4/10/2017 7:00:09 PM EDT

[#10]

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That's interesting!!

Have you heard we put a man on the moon???

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For a really good time look up hillsides.

Posted: 4/10/2017 7:03:16 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:

Now THAT'S just crazy!! There is a set of pliers just like this mixed in with all the stuff. There's also about 20 pounds of Swagelok fittings, several Starrett calipers and micrometers, thread gauges, a Gerber Scientific variable scale, and lots of wrapped or boxed items I haven't even opened yet.

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if there is one of these I might be interested in buying it off you.

Posted: 4/10/2017 7:13:58 PM EDT

[#12]

Hell the real fastenating thing is getting a twenty year old cotter pin out of a castle nut.

Posted: 4/10/2017 7:20:48 PM EDT

[#13]

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Kinda....

The cotter pin is there most of the time as a safety feature more than anything (or safety wire in some applications). You still need to properly torque the nut to being with to have the proper preload in the joint. And if you do that right the nut shouldn't back off. Just putting the nut on loosely and then slamming home a cotter pin will usually result in bad things happening. That is why ball joints and tie rods have the hole in the threads drilled so that the only way to get the pin in place is if the nut is tight enough.

But as you said, vibration and rotation of the joint itself can cause it to want to lose tension, and the pin is there to help keep it from working itself even more loose to the point of coming off all together. Yes, there are some light use cases where the cotter pin really does help hold the nut on, but those are usually in things like lawn and garden equipment, etc. Heck, some things now don't even use the nut. They just use a big flat washer and a large cotter pin through the shaft to hold things in place. That's a cheap way out of using a circlip...

Sorry, can't help myself. I deal with some goofy stuff at work and sometimes people think things like keys and keyways, or things like cotter pins are the main way to transmit load in a bolted joint, when really they are primarily for alignment, and have a secondary use to help carry load if something else goes wrong.

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Castellated nuts are often used in applications where there is essentially very little torque, so the cotter pin is an absolute necessity to keep the nut in position. Adjusting the tension on Timken type bearings in trailer hubs or front wheel spindles on rwd cars is a common application. You need the nut to provide proper preload on the bearings but not be loose and allow movement and not be tight and cause overloading.

Sometimes the cotter pin will not be at the exact location necessary for proper loading and you have to add a shim or shims of the appropriate thickness to the back of the nut to get the proper preload and have the cotter pin line up with the nut at the same time.

Posted: 4/10/2017 7:23:18 PM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:

Castellated nuts are often used in applications where there is essentially very little torque, so the cotter pin is an absolute necessity to keep the nut in position. Adjusting the tension on Timken type bearings in trailer hubs or front wheel spindles on rwd cars is a common application. You need the nut to provide proper preload on the bearings but not be loose and allow movement and not be tight and cause overloading.

Sometimes the cotter pin will not be at the exact location necessary for proper loading and you have to add a shim or shims of the appropriate thickness to the back of the nut to get the proper preload and have the cotter pin line up with the nut at the same time.

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Agree 100%. And you are right, in that case the preload torque may not be enough to lock the nut on its own. But the primary load mechanism is still very much the nut and not the pin.

Posted: 4/10/2017 7:30:55 PM EDT

[#15]

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Quoted:

if there is one of these I might be interested in buying it off you.

https://cdn.mscdirect.com/global/images/ProductImages/7633784-24.jpg

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Gonna make your own concentricity gauge, eh?

Posted: 4/10/2017 7:45:20 PM EDT

[#16]

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if there is one of these I might be interested in buying it off you.

https://cdn.mscdirect.com/global/images/ProductImages/7633784-24.jpg

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I haven't gone through everything yet and though there are a few plunger-type dial indicators with all sorts of replacement tips and mounting bases, I haven't come across any test indicators. Pretty sure I'm just going to hang on to all these goodies until I figure out what I have, what I need and what I don't.

Besides the machinist tools and random hardware there's a pretty eclectic mix of stuff. Lots of hand tools for woodworking and sheet metal too. There are at least two dozen kinds of hand saws, a big set of hand chisels, files galore, about a half dozen hand planes, a precision mitering saw, several shears, furniture and welding clamps.. It's going to take me a while to process and check everything in.

Posted: 4/10/2017 7:49:33 PM EDT

[#17]

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Quoted:
How does a grown man not know this?

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This...........

Posted: 4/10/2017 7:57:55 PM EDT

[#18]

Never worked on an old car huh?

Posted: 4/10/2017 7:59:54 PM EDT

[#19]

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Quoted:

http://i.imgur.com/JjMqnfp.jpg

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Posted: 4/10/2017 8:08:38 PM EDT

[#20]

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How does a grown man not know this?

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Not everyone is a tier 1 mechanical genius.

That being said, I am as technically minded as a banana and I still knew what that was for

Posted: 4/10/2017 8:10:31 PM EDT

[#21]

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Never worked on an old car huh?

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I've replaced a few parts here and there, but when it comes to working on cars, the only advice I'm qualified to give out is to tell someone to find someone else who knows how to work on cars.

ETA: I'm almost always interested in learning something new though (even if I might not have an immediate or direct need).

Posted: 4/10/2017 8:51:17 PM EDT

[#22]

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Quoted:

I had to replace the clutch in my International tractor.It had 2 (large)
Belleville washers rather than a conventional pressure plate.

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XXL!

I used to run into them on large DC motor and generator pole-face connections. We used a 9/16" clicker box end wrench to torque them to only 9 ft. lbs.
The wheel bearings on my self-propelled mower uses them. I had to compress them and then lock a C-ring onto the assembly when I replaced the bearings last year.

Posted: 4/10/2017 8:51:56 PM EDT

[#23]

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Quoted:

Now THAT'S just crazy!! There is a set of pliers just like this mixed in with all the stuff. There's also about 20 pounds of Swagelok fittings, several Starrett calipers and micrometers, thread gauges, a Gerber Scientific variable scale, and lots of wrapped or boxed items I haven't even opened yet.

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Swagelok is crazy expensive (at least the parts I use). At retail prices 20 lbs worth could've cost upwards of $2k. We use it to plumb analytical gases to scientific instruments in our crime labs.

Posted: 4/10/2017 8:54:06 PM EDT

[#24]

Shoot me a PM with what you got if there's any of the woodworking tools you don't want.

Posted: 4/10/2017 8:54:42 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
Swagelok is crazy expensive (at least the parts I use). At retail prices 20 lbs worth could've cost upwards of $2k. We use it to plumb analytical gases to scientific instruments in our crime labs.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Now THAT'S just crazy!! There is a set of pliers just like this mixed in with all the stuff. There's also about 20 pounds of Swagelok fittings, several Starrett calipers and micrometers, thread gauges, a Gerber Scientific variable scale, and lots of wrapped or boxed items I haven't even opened yet.

Swagelok is crazy expensive (at least the parts I use). At retail prices 20 lbs worth could've cost upwards of $2k. We use it to plumb analytical gases to scientific instruments in our crime labs.

Ya, but it works. Their tube tools are kick ass, nothing else compares.

Posted: 4/10/2017 8:57:24 PM EDT

[#26]

anyone that has dealt with tie rod ends is famliar.

Posted: 4/10/2017 8:57:58 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
How does a grown man not know this?

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+1

Posted: 4/10/2017 9:04:38 PM EDT

[#28]

A castle nut holds on every boat propeller I've ever seen also.

Posted: 4/10/2017 9:07:06 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
I was just rummaging through some tools and hardware someone gave me recently and found a box of slotted nuts which I couldn't identify. After examining them for a few minutes, I still couldn't figure out what the slots were for. I wondered if there was some kind of spline tool that would tighten them if they were recessed, but then why bother with the flat sides? Anyhow, I decided to look them up and learned that I have what are called castellated nuts (not like an AR15 castle nut).

They looked like this:
http://www.toolandanchor.com/catalog/categories/2FNCASTLE.jpg

Apparently, they're pretty good at holding things together when used in conjunction with cotter pins and the like. This article I came across shed some light on myths about ~~lock~~ split washers, facts about static loads and other aspects of putting (and keeping) things together.
Fastenating article about nuts and bolts

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Interesting to me that you must not have ever worked on any car/truck's suspension.

Posted: 4/10/2017 9:09:12 PM EDT

[#30]

Carroll Smith's book is fantastic and worth picking up on Amazon.

Posted: 4/10/2017 9:20:13 PM EDT

[#31]

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Quoted:
How does a grown man not know this?

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I'm thinking the same thing...

Posted: 4/10/2017 9:24:05 PM EDT

[#32]

Very common on aircraft.

Posted: 4/10/2017 9:24:31 PM EDT

[#33]

Another interesting one, the split-bolt connector, used for making a tap onto an electrical line.

I have a handful of small ones I use when adjusting the length of an array of wire antennas for resonance. It often takes several tries and these save wrapping and unwrapping the connections.

Posted: 4/10/2017 9:25:41 PM EDT

[#34]

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Ya, but it works. Their tube tools are kick ass, nothing else compares.

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Oh, damned straight!! We do 1/4" and 1/8" lines and bought the Swagelok tee wrenches and tubing benders. They're almost $200 each, but our gas lines look like fine art!!!

Posted: 4/10/2017 9:36:25 PM EDT

[#35]

I have them on my old cultipacker.

Posted: 4/10/2017 9:42:55 PM EDT

[#36]

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Quoted:

Interesting to me that you must not have ever worked on any car/truck's suspension.

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I just haven't had the need to do that sort of work myself or I had something else I was working on instead. When it comes to suspensions, brakes and transmissions, I've always just hired someone. Now that you and others have mentioned it, I'm inclined to look into what's involved.

Posted: 4/10/2017 9:47:32 PM EDT

[#37]

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Quoted:
Belleville washers should absolutely fascinate you then!

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Not to mention ultrasonic bolts

Posted: 4/10/2017 9:56:00 PM EDT

[#38]

better than a castle nut

Posted: 4/10/2017 10:00:20 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:

I just haven't had the need to do that sort of work myself or I had something else I was working on instead. When it comes to suspensions, brakes and transmissions, I've always just hired someone. Now that you and others have mentioned it, I'm inclined to look into what's involved.

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Good luck getting a cotter pin out that's been in there for 10 plus years. I'll give you some grief. You should know that not and what it's used for. The application is obvious.

Posted: 4/10/2017 10:06:31 PM EDT

[#40]

I read apprx 4 replies and im pretty satisfied op is getting ripped for not ever having seen a castle nut before.

This thread is now about theft resistant screws and fasteners. About the only place ive seen them deployed is on bathroom stalls in public bathrooms. What the fuck? Is there some rampant spree of bathroom stall diaassembler packing tools into the bathroom who is foiled when he comes across the screw head that can be tightened, but your screwdriver slips off when attempting to loosen? What is this horse shit?

Posted: 4/10/2017 10:13:25 PM EDT

[#41]

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Quoted:
I read apprx 4 replies and im pretty satisfied op is getting ripped for not ever having seen a castle nut before.

This thread is now about theft resistant screws and fasteners. About the only place ive seen them deployed is on bathroom stalls in public bathrooms. What the fuck? Is there some rampant spree of bathroom stall diaassembler packing tools into the bathroom who is foiled when he comes across the screw head that can be tightened, but your screwdriver slips off when attempting to loosen? What is this horse shit?

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You'd be surprised at the population that just wants to steal shit and make life miserable for others.

Posted: 4/10/2017 10:16:23 PM EDT

[#42]

Posted: 4/10/2017 10:16:43 PM EDT

[#43]

If you've ever worked on old vehicles, you'd know about Ajax threads.

Posted: 4/10/2017 10:17:55 PM EDT

[#44]

Posted: 4/10/2017 10:22:27 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:

Swagelok is crazy expensive (at least the parts I use). At retail prices 20 lbs worth could've cost upwards of $2k. We use it to plumb analytical gases to scientific instruments in our crime labs.

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It does appear to be a nice little collection of parts. Most of the fittings I have are either 1/4 or 1/2 inch and a few 1/8 inch ones as well (M-F, F-F, etc). There are also about 10 Swageok ball valves of varying size. I had no idea of their worth until I started looking them up.

Posted: 4/10/2017 10:25:10 PM EDT

[#46]

ITT: @77grBTHP learns about castle nuts.

The article missed a bit on #4 - in some of the experiments I've read, dry threads will show a 100% spread in actual vs indicated torque values. Using lubrication decreases that to a small number.