Quoted: Jehovah's Witness' don't do the Pledge. TN also has a black female (of course) state rep who refuses to stand or recite the pledge as well.     While I hold no problem with the religious aspect of not doing it, otherwise I would beat their ass if I were there.

My mother retired as a NYC schoolteacher and there were some jehovah witnesses parents that refused their kids to sing the National Anthem or The Pledge of Allegiance, my mother sternly reminded the parents that they were receiving welfare and food stamps from the government and that their children received free lunch from the government and my mother would make the appropriate calls to the goverment agencies, she was bluffing needless to say they were called out as hypocrites, and the kids sang and pledged real loud.

Quoted: Quoted: AFAIK, the kid sat silently, causing about as much disturbance as the flag itself. If he had STOOD silently I would be on his side

So, as long as he submits a little, he demonstrates enough devotion to freedom to pass muster? Spare us, Lord.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't know if Daley has anything to do with saying the Pledge.  I don't even know if I would get in trouble, it's just speculation.  WHen a teacher tells you to do something( I was told this) you do it.   No thinking for yourself? Yeesh...see what I mean when I said being in cook county, Ill was like being in a foreign country?

You know... thats pretty rediculous right there... you want children to disregard whatever parents, teachers, and other persons of authority say to them? Let kids just rationalize it out for themselves? You're fucking joking right?

Yeah, children definitely have more intelligence than their parents. Just disregard what they say and think for yourself. Unreal.

Quoted: Quoted: We do need to teach these kids these things but also to be free, excercise their rights, and to be independent thinkers, not drones. You see, this is where we all seem to have a real parting of the ways. The Pledge to the Flag... of the United States of America. To me, this means I am willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in order to preserve and protect that Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the great country which, may drift off course from time to time... but for all it's faults, and errors we've made, it's still the best damn place to be. And the one that our ancestors died for. If you can't put your hand on your heart and testify to that... I'd say you don't deserve the title of citizen, but then perhaps... maybe you just can't comprehend what the flag means. Some douchebags burn it. I don't mean this as an insult to you, yet I cannot see your rationalization. Do you not love this country? I'm not asking you to kiss Ceasar's feet, I'm asking you to stand up and pledge that as a citizen, you'll do your part to keep us on the right track as a nation. That poses a problem though... since alot of people want to take away our freedoms and our ability to defend ourselves, and make us all nothing more than subjects. (I'd bet the pledge is banned from schools in San Fransisco, for example.) This is what I pledge will NOT happen. You see it as saying a pledge TO tyranny, and I see it as saying a pledge AGAINST tyranny. So who is right? And why?

Well, let me explain it this way. I did my time in the military serving my country. I risked my life in foreign bars and whorehouses so my fellow citizens could enjoy the fruits of America.  One of the benefits of this is that I no longer have to publicly demonstrate my patriotism to anyone. If I want to say it, I will say it. If I don't want to say it, then everyone can file their objections after they get back from their own tour of duty in some foreign country.

I served to protect the ideals of America -- foremost of which is that people are free to run their lives as they see fit.  Freedom is what it is about and freedom doesn't really mean shit unless it applies to the things I don't necessarily agree with.

I have seen surveys in the past where they asked people to sign the Bill of Rights. Typically, about half the people refuse to sign because they think it is subversive. They believe that "free speech" really only applies to speech that they agree with. How sad.

Quoted: Quoted: Look, people in this country have the freedom to do as they please when it comes to freedom of speech, and not repeating the pledge every day is a form of speech, no matter why he chooses not to say it, it is his right not to.  It does not matter what I believe because this is about what makes our country great: the ability to choose and not be punished for those choices (if not a crime).  If you say that we have freedom of speech, but then say that to be a good American you have to go to church every single sunday, someone would say "Great, a little church will be good for the people."  But what does that say to other religions who don't do church on Sunday?  Same thing.  You are free to own guns, say what you want or don't want to say, practice the religion you want, go where you want, earn money in any (legal) profession you desire, and have as many demonic spawns of satan that you wish, marry the woman you wish, live in any part of the country as you wish, etc because we, as American citizens are given the right to choose to do or not do these things.  Take away those rights, and we are no better than the insurgents in Iraq.  You may not agree with that kid that didn't stand for the pledge, but you have to agree that even though you don't like what he did, that he has the right to his beliefs just the same as you have the right to yours.  If you don't believe that should be the case, you sir, should move to Iran, where you can be told what to say, when to stand, what to believe, where to work, where to live, and who you will marry. And all that came to pass because a bunch of brave ballsy bastards fought for it, and many died so that you may enjoy those freedoms... under the Flag of the United States of America. By your logic, there should also be no LAWS, because that goes against my freedom. I should be free to drive 150mph, I should be free to wear no seat belt. I should be free to walk the streets naked. Etc... etc... etc...

What part of the First Amendment is unclear to you?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: AFAIK, the kid sat silently, causing about as much disturbance as the flag itself. If he had STOOD silently I would be on his side So, as long as he submits a little, he demonstrates enough devotion to freedom to pass muster? Spare us, Lord.

NOT EVEN CLOSE

As I stated a few posts above, I do not think he shold be protesting during the pledge, IMO that is what he is doing, protesting

I don't care what his beliefs are, he is not REQUIRED to be anywhere the pledge is being said
I don't go to an opera and hum 70's tunes, to me, that is on par to what he is doing.........

Quoted: He is free to walk out of the pledge "area" and stage a protest of whatever nature he wishes that is his\her right, he does NOT have the right to "spoil" an important event for me and mine

You don't have a right to have important events go your way.  If that spoils an event for you...(speechless)

I'll admit that if he wore white after labor day that would fuckin' ruin my day and it would come to fisticuffs.   I get a bit self-righteous, but I am just sensitive about that.

Quoted: Quoted: Jehovah's Witness' don't do the Pledge. TN also has a black female (of course) state rep who refuses to stand or recite the pledge as well.     While I hold no problem with the religious aspect of not doing it, otherwise I would beat their ass if I were there. My mother retired as a NYC schoolteacher and there were some jehovah witnesses parents that refused their kids to sing the National Anthem or The Pledge of Allegiance, my mother sternly reminded the parents that they were receiving welfare and food stamps from the government and that their children received free lunch from the government and my mother would make the appropriate calls to the goverment agencies, she was bluffing needless to say they were called out as hypocrites, and the kids sang and pledged real loud.

Your mother should be told that coerced displays of patriotism are a disgrace to this country.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't know if Daley has anything to do with saying the Pledge.  I don't even know if I would get in trouble, it's just speculation.  WHen a teacher tells you to do something( I was told this) you do it.   No thinking for yourself? Yeesh...see what I mean when I said being in cook county, Ill was like being in a foreign country? You know... thats pretty rediculous right there... you want children to disregard whatever parents, teachers, and other persons of authority say to them? Let kids just rationalize it out for themselves? You're fucking joking right? Yeah, children definitely have more intelligence than their parents. Just disregard what they say and think for yourself. Unreal.

Do you think this is some big life issue where the kid is in serious danger of harming society if he doesn't follow their directions?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jehovah's Witness' don't do the Pledge. TN also has a black female (of course) state rep who refuses to stand or recite the pledge as well.     While I hold no problem with the religious aspect of not doing it, otherwise I would beat their ass if I were there. My mother retired as a NYC schoolteacher and there were some jehovah witnesses parents that refused their kids to sing the National Anthem or The Pledge of Allegiance, my mother sternly reminded the parents that they were receiving welfare and food stamps from the government and that their children received free lunch from the government and my mother would make the appropriate calls to the goverment agencies, she was bluffing needless to say they were called out as hypocrites, and the kids sang and pledged real loud. Your mother should be told that coerced displays of patriotism are a disgrace to this country.

+1

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jehovah's Witness' don't do the Pledge. TN also has a black female (of course) state rep who refuses to stand or recite the pledge as well.     While I hold no problem with the religious aspect of not doing it, otherwise I would beat their ass if I were there. My mother retired as a NYC schoolteacher and there were some jehovah witnesses parents that refused their kids to sing the National Anthem or The Pledge of Allegiance, my mother sternly reminded the parents that they were receiving welfare and food stamps from the government and that their children received free lunch from the government and my mother would make the appropriate calls to the goverment agencies, she was bluffing needless to say they were called out as hypocrites, and the kids sang and pledged real loud. Your mother should be told that coerced displays of patriotism are a disgrace to this country.

Really. Where does she get off fucking with their religious beliefs in any way, shape, or form?

Quoted: Quoted: He is free to walk out of the pledge "area" and stage a protest of whatever nature he wishes that is his\her right, he does NOT have the right to "spoil" an important event for me and mine You don't have a right to have important events go your way.  If that spoils an event for you...(speechless) I'll admit that if he wore white after labor day that would fuckin' ruin my day and it would come to fisticuffs.   I get a bit self-righteous, but I am just sensitive about that.

I guess I am out of my league trying to explain socialization and respect

We have to just agree to disagree. There is no way to reach a middle ground here


One thing threads like this clearly illustrate is that we'll forever remain divided in this country.


United we stand, divided we fall.

Quoted: We have to just agree to disagree. There is no way to reach a middle ground here One thing threads like this clearly illustrate is that we'll forever remain divided in this country. United we stand, divided we fall.

That's why I spent a few years in the military protecting your First Amendment right to be absolutely, completely, 100 percent wrong about everything.

Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

You tell me where it says ANYTHING about GIVING a punk ass loser $32,000 for getting his feelings hurt? THIS IS BULLSHIT! First Amendment my ass. So those of you that support this are telling me that, just because the First Amendment says that "CONGRESS shall make no law forcing you to shut up, has ANYTHING to do with PAYING some punk because he got his feelings got hurt?" I don't care if some dumbasses on a jury decided to send a message, the money he got was WRONG!

Anybody that thinks it's ok for the taxpayers to foot the bill because some dick head teacher got irrate because some jackass doesn't want to support the country that he is living in, being feed in, being housed in, enjoying freedom in because his family hasn't SHOWED him what OTHER people have done for him and instilled a little respect is a dumb ass!

Quoted: Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. You tell me where it says ANYTHING about GIVING a punk ass loser $32,000 for getting his feelings hurt? THIS IS BULLSHIT! First Amendment my ass. So those of you that support this are telling me that, just because the First Amendment says that "CONGRESS shall make no law forcing you to shut up, has ANYTHING to do with PAYING some punk because he got his feelings got hurt?" I don't care if some dumbasses on a jury decided to send a message, the money he got was WRONG! Anybody that thinks it's ok for the taxpayers to foot the bill because some dick head teacher got irrate because some jackass doesn't want to support the country that he is living in, being feed in, being housed in, enjoying freedom in because his family hasn't SHOWED him what OTHER people have done for him and instilled a little respect is a dumb ass!

Well, as I can attest from my own personal experiences, occasionally there is a school district that needs a real wake-up call about the law. Unless you bite them, they just don't react like they should. Sad to say, but true.

Quoted: Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. You tell me where it says ANYTHING about GIVING a punk ass loser $32,000 for getting his feelings hurt? THIS IS BULLSHIT! First Amendment my ass. So those of you that support this are telling me that, just because the First Amendment says that "CONGRESS shall make no law forcing you to shut up, has ANYTHING to do with PAYING some punk because he got his feelings got hurt?" I don't care if some dumbasses on a jury decided to send a message, the money he got was WRONG! Anybody that thinks it's ok for the taxpayers to foot the bill because some dick head teacher got irrate because some jackass doesn't want to support the country that he is living in, being feed in, being housed in, enjoying freedom in because his family hasn't SHOWED him what OTHER people have done for him and instilled a little respect is a dumb ass!

Jeez another one.  If you could read you'd realize the school settled out of court, no juries were sending any messages.  Moreover, taxpayers foot the bill when the police violate people's rights too, but people don't seem upset about that.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jehovah's Witness' don't do the Pledge. TN also has a black female (of course) state rep who refuses to stand or recite the pledge as well.     While I hold no problem with the religious aspect of not doing it, otherwise I would beat their ass if I were there. My mother retired as a NYC schoolteacher and there were some jehovah witnesses parents that refused their kids to sing the National Anthem or The Pledge of Allegiance, my mother sternly reminded the parents that they were receiving welfare and food stamps from the government and that their children received free lunch from the government and my mother would make the appropriate calls to the goverment agencies, she was bluffing needless to say they were called out as hypocrites, and the kids sang and pledged real loud. Your mother should be told that coerced displays of patriotism are a disgrace to this country. Really. Where does she get off fucking with their religious beliefs in any way, shape, or form?

She was not fucking with anybody's religious beilief but if the gov't  is paying your way you should at least stand and give thanks to the country that is giving you a free ride.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jehovah's Witness' don't do the Pledge. TN also has a black female (of course) state rep who refuses to stand or recite the pledge as well.     While I hold no problem with the religious aspect of not doing it, otherwise I would beat their ass if I were there. My mother retired as a NYC schoolteacher and there were some jehovah witnesses parents that refused their kids to sing the National Anthem or The Pledge of Allegiance, my mother sternly reminded the parents that they were receiving welfare and food stamps from the government and that their children received free lunch from the government and my mother would make the appropriate calls to the goverment agencies, she was bluffing needless to say they were called out as hypocrites, and the kids sang and pledged real loud. Your mother should be told that coerced displays of patriotism are a disgrace to this country.

No one was coerced but if you are stealing money from the gov't you should lay low. If you hate this country don't be a hypocrite and steal from it.

There is a difference between being grateful and being forced to say a silly oath.

Quoted: There is a difference between being grateful and being forced to say a silly oath.

the gov't is giving you a free ride and it is not an oath it is a Pledge, the Pledge of the greatest country of the world that STANDS for religious freedom, INDIVISBLE is one of the key words. If it is a Public school it is mandatory because the gov't is the one that funds the school, if it is a private school then it is up to them. It should not go to adults such as college aged students, they should have the right to walk out on the pledge just like they have the right to walk out on a religious convocation, but not K-12. Maybe I am old fashioned, and again I defend your right to disagree.

Quoted: Quoted: There is a difference between being grateful and being forced to say a silly oath. the gov't is giving you a free ride and it is not an oath it is a Pledge, the Pledge of the greatest country of the world that STANDS for religious freedom, INDIVISBLE is one of the key words. If it is a Public school it is mandatory because the gov't is the one that funds the school, if it is a private school then it is up to them. It should not go to adults such as college aged students, they should have the right to walk out on the pledge just like they have the right to walk out on a religious convocation, but not K-12. Maybe I am old fashioned, and again I defend your right to disagree.

1) No child should be encouraged to say a pledge or oath which they do not understand. No one in the school system ever made an attempt to teach us what it meant.

2) Oath, pledge, affirmation; what is the big difference?

3) I personally am disgusted by our governments attempt to get children to pledge their allegiance to the government. It smacks of brainwashing. I also believe that citizens should not pledge allegiance to a government at all, because governments are corruptible and subject to change.

True patriotism

Quoted: Don't worry.  His parents will blow it on crack.

+1

Quoted: She was not fucking with anybody's religious beilief but if the gov't  is paying your way you should at least stand and give thanks to the country that is giving you a free ride.

Did she, or did she not, coerce them into saying the pledge against their religious beliefs? Your mother has every right to feel that they should give thanks. But it isn't up to her to dictate how they do it. She should have been up for discipline for it.

I distinctly remember that, as a child, I was tricked and/or coerced into pledging a legion to the flag of the United States.  Do you have any idea what that entails?  A legion was 5000-6000 men, fully equipped.  And in modern terms, that wouldn't just be infantry; it would include armor and air cavalry units.  Do you have any idea what that would cost?  We're talking at least hundreds of millions or billions of dollars.

Pledge of Allegiance.  I hate it.  I will not say it.  I don't even like to be in the same room with it.  It gives me the screaming willies.

And it's not because of the "under God" part that seems to get liberal panties in such a bunch.  That's about the only part of it that I find inoffensive.

Let's look at exactly what this abomination is.  

"I pledge allegiance to the flag."  Idolatry, pure and simple.  Can you imagine, pledging allegiance to a flag?  A piece of cloth?  Or even to the Republic for which it stands (that hasn't existed since 1865, but that's a different rant)?  What would God say if he knew that his people were doing such things?

But again I get ahead of myself.  It's presumptuous to presume that these are God's people, much as they'd like to think they are.

And what about this "one nation... indivisible" stuff?  Says who?  Abraham Lincoln?  Certainly not the authors or ratifiers of the Constitution.  When New York and Virginia (and possibly others) ratified the Constitution, it was with the express reservation that the Union could be dissolved if the States decided that it no longer suited them to remain in the partnership.  

It seems to me that once upon a time, a group of true patriots observed that "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."  

This 'indivisible' nonsense is just a ratification of Mr. Lincoln's war against the founding principles of the Republic.

And then there's "with liberty and justice for all."  Irony?  Comic relief?  I dunno.  A worthy goal?  Maybe.  The truth?  Yeah, right.

So why the hell is the Pledge so revered?  Did George Washington or Thomas Jefferson say the pledge?  Hell no.  They would have choked on it.  George because it's blasphemous and Tom because it's statist.  It was a turn-of-the-century state-worshiping socialist thing.  It is a prayer to the gods of big government and centralization.  It is an offense to all that is true and good and right.

Quoted: the gov't is giving you a free ride

So it is about money?

and it is not an oath it is a Pledge,

OK, whatever. Others see it differently.

the Pledge of the greatest country of the world that STANDS for religious freedom,

You mean, the freedom to refuse the oath if it is against your religion?

INDIVISBLE is one of the key words.

I take that to mean something like recognizing that both me and the guy who disagrees with me are on the same side. The reason we are on the same side is because we both protect the other's right to express himself as he sees fit.

If it is a Public school it is mandatory because the gov't is the one that funds the school,  if it is a private school then it is up to them. It should not go to adults such as college aged students, they should have the right to walk out on the pledge just like they have the right to walk out on a religious convocation, but not K-12. Maybe I am old fashioned, and again I defend your right to disagree.

Interesting. You defend the right to disagree -- just not in schools. OK, are we missing something here?

Publics schools, the same ones that fly the US flag in front, although I would not expect some private school like a Nation of Islam school to pledge or sing the national anthem. And you are not forcing kids, you are teaching them, just as you would civics, laws, history etc. You say they are coerced? Do you think they are coerced to sit in their chairs in class or behave in the lunchroom? When you were in the military and Colors was sounded did you feel coerced to salute? What happens when you turn 18 and don't sign up for selective service? Your bennies are cut, no gov't jobs, etc. When your nation calls you up in a national emergency like a draft or the reserves are mobilized do you feel coerced? the keyword here is obligation.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jehovah's Witness' don't do the Pledge. TN also has a black female (of course) state rep who refuses to stand or recite the pledge as well.     While I hold no problem with the religious aspect of not doing it, otherwise I would beat their ass if I were there. My mother retired as a NYC schoolteacher and there were some jehovah witnesses parents that refused their kids to sing the National Anthem or The Pledge of Allegiance, my mother sternly reminded the parents that they were receiving welfare and food stamps from the government and that their children received free lunch from the government and my mother would make the appropriate calls to the goverment agencies, she was bluffing needless to say they were called out as hypocrites, and the kids sang and pledged real loud. Your mother should be told that coerced displays of patriotism are a disgrace to this country.

Coming from someone who bragged about acting like an ass clown during the National Anthem, I would expect nothing less from you.

People like you are the disgrace.

freedom is not a relative term.  one is either free or is not.

coercing a pledge is not freedom.  period.  it is obeisance, and obeisance is the antithesis of freedom.

dismantle with care the platform upon which you are standing.

[ETA:  this really pisses me off.  when i recite the pledge, or sing the national anthem, i do so because i truly mean it.  if someone does not truly, in their bones, mean it, i would prefer that they keep their fucking mouth shut rather than lie about it.  if you do not feel the same way, you do not value truth.]

As what my Hatian friend would say "ONLY AMERICA" but then I will always correct him to say "Only in America"

My country is going to hell...

Washington DC 1982...

My elementry school teacher caught one of the students not reciting the pledge.
He was forced to stand in front of the class and sing the Star Spangled Banner...
Not one damned thing the little shit could do about it...

Let me get to the ROOT of why I posted this. This PUNK got $32,000 for getting his FEELINGS hurt! And the TAXPAYERS foot the bill! There is the ROOT problem.

Our legal system has turned in to a profit center for assholes! And the lawyers, stupid parents, stupid school officials, stupid government officials, low life money grubbers are to blame.

And it's only going to get WORSE! Feel like you pay enough taxes? Well, we haven't even started yet. ALL PRODUCTS cost more because of LAWYERS and OUTRAGEOUS awards given to a LOT of people who shouldn't even get a dime. There are legitiment lawsuits and legitiment awards for a large amount of money. But thanks to our CURRENT legal system, any asshole can sue ANYBODY for ANYTHING and to make it less financially painful, people settle out of court and WE...let me say that again...WE all pay for it.

If you don't want to say the pledge of aligence because you don't feel it's right based on religious reasons or just because it makes you freak out...BIG DEAL. Yeah, deep down you might be unpatriotic and should live somewhere else, OR maybe you just have legitiment issues with it. BUT TO GET MONEY BECAUSE YOUR FEELINGS ARE HURT??? Give me a break!

If that were the case, I should be a millionaire from all the shit thrown at me when I was a kid. Should I get money for some insult or because some dick head teacher doesn't understand the meaning of Freedom?

This country has become a pathetic version of Freedom and stupidity has taken over.


Why the super huge letters? Because people only see what they want and I want my point to be clear.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jehovah's Witness' don't do the Pledge. TN also has a black female (of course) state rep who refuses to stand or recite the pledge as well.     While I hold no problem with the religious aspect of not doing it, otherwise I would beat their ass if I were there. My mother retired as a NYC schoolteacher and there were some jehovah witnesses parents that refused their kids to sing the National Anthem or The Pledge of Allegiance, my mother sternly reminded the parents that they were receiving welfare and food stamps from the government and that their children received free lunch from the government and my mother would make the appropriate calls to the goverment agencies, she was bluffing needless to say they were called out as hypocrites, and the kids sang and pledged real loud. Your mother should be told that coerced displays of patriotism are a disgrace to this country. Coming from someone who bragged about acting like an ass clown during the National Anthem, I would expect nothing less from you. People like you are the disgrace.

Let me guess. You think the Brown Shirts ought to enforce this.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jehovah's Witness' don't do the Pledge. TN also has a black female (of course) state rep who refuses to stand or recite the pledge as well.     While I hold no problem with the religious aspect of not doing it, otherwise I would beat their ass if I were there. My mother retired as a NYC schoolteacher and there were some jehovah witnesses parents that refused their kids to sing the National Anthem or The Pledge of Allegiance, my mother sternly reminded the parents that they were receiving welfare and food stamps from the government and that their children received free lunch from the government and my mother would make the appropriate calls to the goverment agencies, she was bluffing needless to say they were called out as hypocrites, and the kids sang and pledged real loud. Your mother should be told that coerced displays of patriotism are a disgrace to this country. Coming from someone who bragged about acting like an ass clown during the National Anthem, I would expect nothing less from you. People like you are the disgrace.

WTF are you talking about? I stand and place my hand over my heart for the national anthem.

Why they hell did the punk get awarded money? WTF does money have to do with anything that happened.  I just don't get it.

Quoted: Publics schools, the same ones that fly the US flag in front, although I would not expect some private school like a Nation of Islam school to pledge or sing the national anthem. And you are not forcing kids, you are teaching them, just as you would civics, laws, history etc. You say they are coerced? Do you think they are coerced to sit in their chairs in class or behave in the lunchroom? When you were in the military and Colors was sounded did you feel coerced to salute? What happens when you turn 18 and don't sign up for selective service? Your bennies are cut, no gov't jobs, etc. When your nation calls you up in a national emergency like a draft or the reserves are mobilized do you feel coerced? the keyword here is obligation.

in case anyone missed this I reposted it. Public schools are free and lids are obligated to go to school then they are obligated to Pledge, if your religious convictions tell you flags, soveirgnty, governments are bad then go PAY for private school. But if the US flag fies at the free Public school then you have obligations.

Quoted: Quoted: Publics schools, the same ones that fly the US flag in front, although I would not expect some private school like a Nation of Islam school to pledge or sing the national anthem. And you are not forcing kids, you are teaching them, just as you would civics, laws, history etc. You say they are coerced? Do you think they are coerced to sit in their chairs in class or behave in the lunchroom? When you were in the military and Colors was sounded did you feel coerced to salute? What happens when you turn 18 and don't sign up for selective service? Your bennies are cut, no gov't jobs, etc. When your nation calls you up in a national emergency like a draft or the reserves are mobilized do you feel coerced? the keyword here is obligation. in case anyone missed this I reposted it. Public schools are free and lids are obligated to go to school then they are obligated to Pledge, if your religious convictions tell you flags, soveirgnty, governments are bad then go PAY for private school. But if the US flag fies at the free Public school then you have obligations.

Public schools aren't free.  They're paid for with our tax dollars.  And in case you haven't noticed, those taxes aren't voluntary.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Publics schools, the same ones that fly the US flag in front, although I would not expect some private school like a Nation of Islam school to pledge or sing the national anthem. And you are not forcing kids, you are teaching them, just as you would civics, laws, history etc. You say they are coerced? Do you think they are coerced to sit in their chairs in class or behave in the lunchroom? When you were in the military and Colors was sounded did you feel coerced to salute? What happens when you turn 18 and don't sign up for selective service? Your bennies are cut, no gov't jobs, etc. When your nation calls you up in a national emergency like a draft or the reserves are mobilized do you feel coerced? the keyword here is obligation. in case anyone missed this I reposted it. Public schools are free and lids are obligated to go to school then they are obligated to Pledge, if your religious convictions tell you flags, soveirgnty, governments are bad then go PAY for private school. But if the US flag fies at the free Public school then you have obligations. Public schools aren't free.  They're paid for with our tax dollars.  And in case you haven't noticed, those taxes aren't voluntary.

Those taxes are not voluntary but even if you do not work or pay taxes the kids still get a free ride.  Now you will bring up the subject that kids on welfare should not go to school, or illegal immigrants children should not attend but they are, no other country in the world offers a public education system like ours, taking children who speak different languages, different cultures, yeah diversity is aweful ain't it and obligating them to learn about how great this country is and they are obligated to say the pledge if they are getting a free ride.