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Posted: 10/14/2015 4:43:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HK P30 9mm Mag release automatically DQ's all HKs, unfortunately. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 4:44:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glock will probably enter one without finger groves it wouldn't take that much. And then introduce that model to the general public I can wish, right? |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 4:46:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reviews of the 320 are almost universally great. My personal experience with the P320 Compact 9mm was awesome.. great accuracy, comfortable, sweet trigger. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Side note: The P320 looks like a (hopefully) product-improvement of the epic failure the P250 was... Have they really worked the kinks out? The concept is intriguing... Dunno about the execution. Reviews of the 320 are almost universally great. My personal experience with the P320 Compact 9mm was awesome.. great accuracy, comfortable, sweet trigger. Neat. Thanks. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 4:51:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: a surprisingly nice and smooth striker Yeah it is. I fired a full size 9mm P320 at an indoor gun range back in May and I really liked how it felt and how it shot in my hands. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 4:52:17 PM EDT
[#5]
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Wouldn't want them to accidentally professional themselves in the foot would we? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=b572bfc31492380c0534465de4c674dc The list of required features has a definite smell of not-Glock to it. Wouldn't want them to accidentally professional themselves in the foot would we? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile their solicitation prohibits external safeties of any type. 
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Posted: 10/14/2015 4:55:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The aversion to a manual safety surprises me. Not seeing the downside to a properly designed one. This was written to ensure that they continue to utilize Glock pistols, but to nudge Glock into making slight improvements they might otherwise not - integral magwell, high vis follower, no finger grooves, etc. They are already fielding a 9mm "Tactical" pistol (Class III for all intents and purposes) that is a tricked out Glock 17. Sig and MP have essentially zero chance at adoption, even if the language seems to encourage them. The trigger pull range, magazine witness holes, trigger design, lack of manual safety, etc, etc are built around maintaining the Glock inventory. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 4:56:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought that too.....BUT, the "trigger safety if any must conform to the trigger bow" takes out the Glock as is......BUT...I don't see that that's a deal killer..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Everything but the finger grooves says Glock . I thought that too.....BUT, the "trigger safety if any must conform to the trigger bow" takes out the Glock as is......BUT...I don't see that that's a deal killer..... I reshape the trigger safety on all my GLOCKs exactly as they describe. Makes shooting lots of rounds less irritating to my trigger finger. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 5:05:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I reshape the trigger safety on all my GLOCKs exactly as they describe. Makes shooting lots of rounds less irritating to my trigger finger. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Everything but the finger grooves says Glock . I thought that too.....BUT, the "trigger safety if any must conform to the trigger bow" takes out the Glock as is......BUT...I don't see that that's a deal killer..... I reshape the trigger safety on all my GLOCKs exactly as they describe. Makes shooting lots of rounds less irritating to my trigger finger. do you have a picture? sounds nice |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 5:07:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
*crosses fingers and hopes for a new G19 minus finger grooves* That's kinda what i had in mind. The 17 and 19 Gen2 frame with the late design ambi mag release, Gen4 backstraps, and flared magwell. The mags are already molded for it and the mag release parts already exist. The backstraps just need the size identifier molded in externally - a slight mod of the existing backstraps that could carry over into the red label market as a running change. Just need to put in a high visibility follower and maybe a basepad with a bit more forward protrusion. You know damn well that everyone in the non-LEO market would clamor for the "FBI Gun" too. Actually, a G34 with this frame would make a hell of a competition gun and it would already meet the production quantity requirements of IDPA and IPSC. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 5:18:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Should be either a 45 1911 or a 454 casull. You know, God's gun or a 'real man's' gun.
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Posted: 10/14/2015 5:27:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
*crosses fingers and hopes for a new G19 minus finger grooves* Aim just sold out of Gen 2 G19's. Mine is awesome and matches my 2nd Gen G17 perfectly |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 5:35:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Sounds like they want Glock to make some small changes (trigger safety reshape, finger groove delete, frame color options).
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Posted: 10/14/2015 5:42:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Aim just sold out of Gen 2 G19's. Mine is awesome and matches my 2nd Gen G17 perfectly Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: *crosses fingers and hopes for a new G19 minus finger grooves* Aim just sold out of Gen 2 G19's. Mine is awesome and matches my 2nd Gen G17 perfectly Might want to double check that |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 5:44:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
doesn't matter. I've carried the same pistol daily for 11 years and I guarantee that I shoot it more than their service pistols. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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whats wrong with what they are using now? really. $85,000,000.00? 85 mil is over ten years and covers several different agencies. doesn't matter. I've carried the same pistol daily for 11 years and I guarantee that I shoot it more than their service pistols. Agreed. Make due with what you have, like the rest of America that deals with meeting a budget on a biweekly/monthly basis. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 5:45:56 PM EDT
[#15]
What about the Beretta APX?
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Posted: 10/14/2015 5:48:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As I mentioned in the other thread, if I were a betting man that's where I'd put my money as the eventual winner in this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I actally like the P320 As I mentioned in the other thread, if I were a betting man that's where I'd put my money as the eventual winner in this. My agency already has them on order. They are the SHIT. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 5:48:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=b572bfc31492380c0534465de4c674dc The list of required features has a definite smell of not-Glock to it. Just in time for Mulder and Scully to get in on it 
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:10:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Let them have whatever they can buy in the city where there office is.
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:13:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=b572bfc31492380c0534465de4c674dc The list of required features has a definite smell of not-Glock to it. a 111 pg pdf with no pictures
TLDR |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:19:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like they want Glock to make some small changes (trigger safety reshape, finger groove delete, frame color options). Small changes? 
This contract would require them to resign their frames establish two new frame production lines for those, redesign the trigger safety and establish a new line for those, and redesign their magazine floor plates and establish a line for those. I don't see Glock doing all of that. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:19:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FS slide on a compact frame hybrid? Sort of like the custom cut downs. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There are several other guns that could be easily modified to meet the proposal and the M&P meets it as is..... FS slide on a compact frame hybrid? Sort of like the custom cut downs. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile instead of that stupid pinky finger magazine plate.  I would finally buy one. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:23:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This was written to ensure that they continue to utilize Glock pistols, but to nudge Glock into making slight improvements they might otherwise not - integral magwell, high vis follower, no finger grooves, etc. They are already fielding a 9mm "Tactical" pistol (Class III for all intents and purposes) that is a tricked out Glock 17. Sig and MP have essentially zero chance at adoption, even if the language seems to encourage them. The trigger pull range, magazine witness holes, trigger design, lack of manual safety, etc, etc are built around maintaining the Glock inventory. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The aversion to a manual safety surprises me. Not seeing the downside to a properly designed one. This was written to ensure that they continue to utilize Glock pistols, but to nudge Glock into making slight improvements they might otherwise not - integral magwell, high vis follower, no finger grooves, etc. They are already fielding a 9mm "Tactical" pistol (Class III for all intents and purposes) that is a tricked out Glock 17. Sig and MP have essentially zero chance at adoption, even if the language seems to encourage them. The trigger pull range, magazine witness holes, trigger design, lack of manual safety, etc, etc are built around maintaining the Glock inventory. 
You REALLY want to believe, don't you? |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:24:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Small changes?
This contract would require them to resign their frames establish two new frame production lines for those, redesign the trigger safety and establish a new line for those, and redesign their magazine floor plates and establish a line for those. I don't see Glock doing all of that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like they want Glock to make some small changes (trigger safety reshape, finger groove delete, frame color options). Small changes?
This contract would require them to resign their frames establish two new frame production lines for those, redesign the trigger safety and establish a new line for those, and redesign their magazine floor plates and establish a line for those. I don't see Glock doing all of that. For $85MM? I bet they would. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:26:13 PM EDT
[#24]
/thread |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:26:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As I mentioned in the other thread, if I were a betting man that's where I'd put my money as the eventual winner in this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I actally like the P320 As I mentioned in the other thread, if I were a betting man that's where I'd put my money as the eventual winner in this. I'll second this. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:28:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
H&K should be able to mod the VP9 to an ambidextrous button...if they wanted to bother with it. Personally I'm a big fan of the levers on H&K handguns. They work very well. VP9 still has finger grooves though. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:29:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Might want to double check that Quote HistoryQuoted:
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*crosses fingers and hopes for a new G19 minus finger grooves* Aim just sold out of Gen 2 G19's. Mine is awesome and matches my 2nd Gen G17 perfectly Might want to double check that Thanks for the heads-up.. just snagged one |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:33:43 PM EDT
[#28]
It's been awhile since I handled one but don't the FN striker guns fit into this list as well?
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:37:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For $85MM? I bet they would. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like they want Glock to make some small changes (trigger safety reshape, finger groove delete, frame color options). Small changes?
This contract would require them to resign their frames establish two new frame production lines for those, redesign the trigger safety and establish a new line for those, and redesign their magazine floor plates and establish a line for those. I don't see Glock doing all of that. For $85MM? I bet they would. $85M is the maximum. $20M is the minimum. Let me frame the question another way... The requirements in this RFP are written in a very specific way to exclude your product. Are you going to invest the resources to modify your product to offer a potential customer something you already know they don't want? |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:42:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I actally like the P320 It's a really nice gun. If I wasn't so heavily invested in M&P's for 9mm carry and competition, I'd have one in a second. In a couple of years, I probably will. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 6:43:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ugh. I hate DAOs... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I actally like the P320 As I mentioned in the other thread, if I were a betting man that's where I'd put my money as the eventual winner in this. Ugh. I hate DAOs... Then you'll be fine because the 320 is striker fired. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:02:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Should be either a 45 1911 or a 454 casull. You know, God's gun or a 'real man's' gun. The Women and the Girly Men of the FBI pussed out on the 10 mm already.
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:08:05 PM EDT
[#33]
It'll be G17 Gen4 and G19 Gen 4
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:12:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It'll be G17 Gen4 and G19 Gen 4 I don't know, they were pretty adamant about the no finger grooves thing, considering they underlined and bolded it. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:16:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Trigger safety language is a +1 to Sig.
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:18:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Correct choice is correct. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:20:15 PM EDT
[#37]
What's old is new again. They'll spend a million on some stupid shit, make exceptions for special units and current agents and then the years from now they'll realize they fucked up... again, and go back to Glock. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:25:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
H&K should be able to mod the VP9 to an ambidextrous button...if they wanted to bother with it. Personally I'm a big fan of the levers on H&K handguns. They work very well. Yeah. I've never accidentally dropped a mag when using a lever release. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:34:09 PM EDT
[#39]
With Sig's recent track record with pistols and after handling a P320, I wouldn't take one for free.
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:37:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's old is new again. They'll spend a million on some stupid shit, make exceptions for special units and current agents and then the years from now they'll realize they fucked up... again, and go back to Glock. Actually $20-85 million but yeah. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:47:45 PM EDT
[#41]
After reading the specs (no finger grooves, ambi, non HK mag release), the P320 was my first thought.
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:55:26 PM EDT
[#42]
This is pulled straight from SIG's website.
Introducing the P320, a polymer-framed service pistol designed from the ground up with the input of law enforcement officers. The result is the most operator-safety focused striker duty pistol on the market today. Taking into account the concerns of military and police training officers, the P320 provides an enhanced level of safety not found on most modern service pistols. Unlike its competitors, the P320 does not require the operator to pull the trigger nor use a special tool to take-down the firearm for cleaning or routine maintenance. Featuring a modular grip frame and removable fire control assembly pioneered by SIG SAUER, the P320 is customizable to any hand size or duty requirement. The P320 can quickly be converted from a Full-size to a Carry pistol. Slide and barrel conversions allow the P320 to change between calibers and barrel lengths as well. The P320 will be immediately available in 9mm, .40S&W and .357SIG, with .45ACP coming later in 2014. With a partially pretensioned striker, the P320 has a short, crisp trigger pull with a quick, pronounced reset right out-of-the-box. The P320 comes in two trigger variants: a standard trigger and a tabbed safety trigger for specific law enforcement clients. Featuring the SIG SAUER internal safety system, the P320 has no external safety or decocking lever to snag or hang up on the draw. A frame-mounted thumb safety version will be available for law enforcement needs. Contrast or Night sights come standard, and the reversible magazine release makes the P320 completely ambidextrous. Whatever the requirement, patrol duty, competition, time at the shooting range, or concealed carry, the P320 brings SIG SAUER legendary reliability, durability, and quality to the polymer-framed, striker-fired duty pistol. Gee, I wonder if someone retired from the Feeb Quantico firearms range about 2 years ago and then went to work for Sig? 
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Posted: 10/14/2015 7:57:01 PM EDT
[#43]
I bet Colt will squander millions to polish the All American 2000 turd and enter it.
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Posted: 10/14/2015 8:10:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With Sig's recent track record with pistols and after handling a P320, I wouldn't take one for free. 
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Posted: 10/14/2015 8:27:49 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With Sig's recent track record with pistols and after handling a P320, I wouldn't take one for free. thats rich, rich indeed
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Posted: 10/14/2015 8:37:38 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryDid you pay attention to any of the requirements? |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:20:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know, they were pretty adamant about the no finger grooves thing, considering they underlined and bolded it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It'll be G17 Gen4 and G19 Gen 4 I don't know, they were pretty adamant about the no finger grooves thing, considering they underlined and bolded it. And Glock will comply, the FBI contract is the whipped cream AND the cherry. They had good results with the G22/23 they'll end up with Glocks. Holster commonality, mag holders, training, maintenance.... |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:41:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Sig P320 is looking like the contender to be the real Glock killer, especially if Sig supports it properly.
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:47:16 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sig P320 is looking like the contender to be the real Glock killer, especially if Sig supports it properly. 
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:48:53 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Might want to double check that Quote HistoryQuoted:
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*crosses fingers and hopes for a new G19 minus finger grooves* Aim just sold out of Gen 2 G19's. Mine is awesome and matches my 2nd Gen G17 perfectly Might want to double check that Damn it!!! Wife about to be pissed about ANOTHER 2nd Gen G19 inbound..... |
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