User Panel
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quoted:
From the FBI Training Division at Quantico. Excerpts: • 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI • 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons) • There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto "Rarely in law enforcement does a topic stir a more passionate debate than the choice of handgun caliber made by a law enforcement organization. Many voice their opinions by repeating the old adage “bigger is better” while others have “heard of this one time” where a smaller caliber failed and a larger caliber “would have performed much better.” Some even subscribe to the belief that a caliber exists which will provide a “one shot stop.” It has been stated, “Decisions on ammunition selection are particularly difficult because many of the pertinent issues related to handguns and ammunition are firmly rooted in myth and folklore.” This still holds as true today as it did when originally stated 20 years ago." "Due to the elastic nature of most human tissue and the low velocity of handgun projectiles relative to rifle projectiles, it has long been established by medical professionals, experienced in evaluating gunshot wounds, that the damage along a wound path visible at autopsy or during surgery cannot be distinguished between the common handgun calibers used in law enforcement. That is to say an operating room surgeon or Medical Examiner cannot distinguish the difference between wounds caused by .35 to .45 caliber projectiles." "The Ballistic Research Facility has conducted a test which compares similar sized Glock pistols in both .40 S&W and 9mm calibers, to determine if more accurate and faster hits are achievable with one versus the other. To date, the majority of the study participants have shot more quickly and more accurately with 9mm caliber Glock pistols." • The move to 9mm Luger can now be viewed as a decided advantage for our armed law enforcement personnel. Full article View Quote I'll keep this in mind if ever I should: A) Join the FBI B) Be attacked by a block or blocks of naked gelatin C) Decide to live out the remainder of my life in the nirvana of a controlled environment of a ballistics lab D) All the above Until then, I'll stick with cartridges that begin with "4" and end with "5". |
|
Quoted:
I'll keep this in mind if ever I should: A) Join the FBI B) Be attacked by a block or blocks of naked gelatin C) Decide to live out the remainder of my life in the nirvana of a controlled environment of a ballistics lab or D) All the above Until then, I'll stick with cartridges that begin with "4" and end with "5". View Quote I knew we wouldn't make it past 2 pages before somebody mentioned being attacked by jello. God bless the internet. |
|
Quoted:
Umm... They said 9mm through .45. Unless math changed since I was in school, 10mm falls in between those two. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I notice they aren't comparing it to 10mm. Umm... They said 9mm through .45. Unless math changed since I was in school, 10mm falls in between those two. I'd guess right about .40 |
|
Quoted: I knew we wouldn't make it past 2 pages before somebody mentioned being attacked by jello. God bless the internet. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I'll keep this in mind if ever I should: A) Join the FBI B) Be attacked by a block or blocks of naked gelatin C) Decide to live out the remainder of my life in the nirvana of a controlled environment of a ballistics lab or D) All the above Until then, I'll stick with cartridges that begin with "4" and end with "5". I knew we wouldn't make it past 2 pages before somebody mentioned being attacked by jello. God bless the internet. Well, it wasn't jello wearing armor or it might have been different (assuming anyone pays attention to that NIJ threat level nonsense). |
|
Quoted:
From the FBI Training Division at Quantico. Excerpts: • 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI View Quote But not all! |
|
Quoted:
From the FBI Training Division at Quantico. Excerpts: • 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI • 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons) • There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto "Rarely in law enforcement does a topic stir a more passionate debate than the choice of handgun caliber made by a law enforcement organization. Many voice their opinions by repeating the old adage “bigger is better” while others have “heard of this one time” where a smaller caliber failed and a larger caliber “would have performed much better.” Some even subscribe to the belief that a caliber exists which will provide a “one shot stop.” It has been stated, “Decisions on ammunition selection are particularly difficult because many of the pertinent issues related to handguns and ammunition are firmly rooted in myth and folklore.” This still holds as true today as it did when originally stated 20 years ago." "Due to the elastic nature of most human tissue and the low velocity of handgun projectiles relative to rifle projectiles, it has long been established by medical professionals, experienced in evaluating gunshot wounds, that the damage along a wound path visible at autopsy or during surgery cannot be distinguished between the common handgun calibers used in law enforcement. That is to say an operating room surgeon or Medical Examiner cannot distinguish the difference between wounds caused by .35 to .45 caliber projectiles." "The Ballistic Research Facility has conducted a test which compares similar sized Glock pistols in both .40 S&W and 9mm calibers, to determine if more accurate and faster hits are achievable with one versus the other. To date, the majority of the study participants have shot more quickly and more accurately with 9mm caliber Glock pistols." • The move to 9mm Luger can now be viewed as a decided advantage for our armed law enforcement personnel. Full article View Quote 9mm is better. It took the fucking FBI 30 years to figure it out. Imagine that. Color me shocked. About fucking time. |
|
|
Quoted:
9mm is better. It took the fucking FBI 30 years to figure it out. Imagine that. Color me shocked. About fucking time. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
From the FBI Training Division at Quantico. Excerpts: • 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI • 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons) • There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto "Rarely in law enforcement does a topic stir a more passionate debate than the choice of handgun caliber made by a law enforcement organization. Many voice their opinions by repeating the old adage “bigger is better” while others have “heard of this one time” where a smaller caliber failed and a larger caliber “would have performed much better.” Some even subscribe to the belief that a caliber exists which will provide a “one shot stop.” It has been stated, “Decisions on ammunition selection are particularly difficult because many of the pertinent issues related to handguns and ammunition are firmly rooted in myth and folklore.” This still holds as true today as it did when originally stated 20 years ago." "Due to the elastic nature of most human tissue and the low velocity of handgun projectiles relative to rifle projectiles, it has long been established by medical professionals, experienced in evaluating gunshot wounds, that the damage along a wound path visible at autopsy or during surgery cannot be distinguished between the common handgun calibers used in law enforcement. That is to say an operating room surgeon or Medical Examiner cannot distinguish the difference between wounds caused by .35 to .45 caliber projectiles." "The Ballistic Research Facility has conducted a test which compares similar sized Glock pistols in both .40 S&W and 9mm calibers, to determine if more accurate and faster hits are achievable with one versus the other. To date, the majority of the study participants have shot more quickly and more accurately with 9mm caliber Glock pistols." • The move to 9mm Luger can now be viewed as a decided advantage for our armed law enforcement personnel. Full article 9mm is better. It took the fucking FBI 30 years to figure it out. Imagine that. Color me shocked. About fucking time. 30 years ago it certainly was not an advantage. Modern metallurgy and engineering has made it what it is. |
|
Quoted: Said it before, with current bullet "Technology" 9mm is the way to go. Edit: take it from someone who knows....bullets don't kill people like you think...it's all about multiple hits. View Quote I've seen someone take a torso and lower extremity hit from a .50 cal. It took him a couple minutes to realize he was already dead. |
|
|
Quoted:
9mm is better. It took the fucking FBI 30 years to figure it out. Imagine that. Color me shocked. About fucking time. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
From the FBI Training Division at Quantico. Excerpts: • 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI • 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons) • There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto "Rarely in law enforcement does a topic stir a more passionate debate than the choice of handgun caliber made by a law enforcement organization. Many voice their opinions by repeating the old adage “bigger is better” while others have “heard of this one time” where a smaller caliber failed and a larger caliber “would have performed much better.” Some even subscribe to the belief that a caliber exists which will provide a “one shot stop.” It has been stated, “Decisions on ammunition selection are particularly difficult because many of the pertinent issues related to handguns and ammunition are firmly rooted in myth and folklore.” This still holds as true today as it did when originally stated 20 years ago." "Due to the elastic nature of most human tissue and the low velocity of handgun projectiles relative to rifle projectiles, it has long been established by medical professionals, experienced in evaluating gunshot wounds, that the damage along a wound path visible at autopsy or during surgery cannot be distinguished between the common handgun calibers used in law enforcement. That is to say an operating room surgeon or Medical Examiner cannot distinguish the difference between wounds caused by .35 to .45 caliber projectiles." "The Ballistic Research Facility has conducted a test which compares similar sized Glock pistols in both .40 S&W and 9mm calibers, to determine if more accurate and faster hits are achievable with one versus the other. To date, the majority of the study participants have shot more quickly and more accurately with 9mm caliber Glock pistols." • The move to 9mm Luger can now be viewed as a decided advantage for our armed law enforcement personnel. Full article 9mm is better. It took the fucking FBI 30 years to figure it out. Imagine that. Color me shocked. About fucking time. Actually it took them 106 years because that's how old the FBI is, or 4 years younger than the 9mm Luger. |
|
|
This will cause a shitstorm . I researched this years ago and came to the same conclusion
|
|
Quoted: I'll keep this in mind if ever I should: A) Join the FBI B) Be attacked by a block or blocks of naked gelatin C) Decide to live out the remainder of my life in the nirvana of a controlled environment of a ballistics lab D) All the above Until then, I'll stick with cartridges that begin with "4" and end with "5". View Quote "Hello face, my old friend", said the palm. |
|
Handgun calibers are for the most-part ~=
9mm~=.40~=.45 Now you can get into interesting discussions about revolver cartridges that get into ~near lower-end rifle ballistics... But it's still a handgun... Harder to aim as well as a rifle, shorter barrel, etc. But for common caliber service rounds... They are all small, straight-walled cartridges leaving a ~5-7 inch barrel... The ballistic trade off from 9mm to .45 is a little more speed in the 9mm and a bigger hole in the .45... 9mm~=.40~=.45 For service calibers, I agree with the findings of the FBI and many others who have concluded the same thing... |
|
Quoted:
Meh... Give it 20 years, they come up with something going the other way, justify buying new weapons. Same goes for M4 replacement, new military sidearms and camo patterns. View Quote That's all they're doing...they switch back and forth between 9mm and 40cal every 5 years or so. It's ridiculous. |
|
|
Quoted:
Well, it wasn't jello wearing armor or it might have been different (assuming anyone pays attention to that NIJ threat level nonsense). View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll keep this in mind if ever I should: A) Join the FBI B) Be attacked by a block or blocks of naked gelatin C) Decide to live out the remainder of my life in the nirvana of a controlled environment of a ballistics lab or D) All the above Until then, I'll stick with cartridges that begin with "4" and end with "5". I knew we wouldn't make it past 2 pages before somebody mentioned being attacked by jello. God bless the internet. Well, it wasn't jello wearing armor or it might have been different (assuming anyone pays attention to that NIJ threat level nonsense). If your jello assailant is wearing denim or hiding behind windshield glass sometimes the holler points get plugged up yaknow... |
|
Sticking to .45 because 1) any ammo you can get in 9mm you can get in .45 and 2) all my cans are in .45
|
|
Proper conclusion: Handgun rounds, in 'duty' guns in general, suck as man stoppers.
Keltec needs to make a .375H&H revolver so Ruger can clone it. |
|
I think what most people who aren't around training environments on a regular basis fail to appreciate is just how much of a difference the recoil and flash can make in terms of accuracy for newer shooters. It's not just cheaper to train someone on several thousand rounds of pistol ammo, it's also going to be more effective training because they're probably going to flinch less, and pick up the proper muscle memory faster.
The inherent problem in all ballistics comparisons is that it automatically assumes each caliber is equally likely to strike the vitals of the target. In reality, while the differences aren't vast, there are indeed measurable speed and accuracy gains to be made in going with a lower caliber...and that plays a huge role in determining which one is really going to work at the end of the day. |
|
I'm like a Jewish Christian Buddhist. I have 9-40 and 45 - I don't debate, I work on proficiency and accuracy with each caliber.
|
|
|
Nothing new in this article. I've switched to all 9mm and will stay with it forever. At the end of the day, I wanna shoot my guns and 9mm is a pleasure to shoot and inexpensive to boot. And it apparently hurts a mutha fucka real good too.
|
|
|
|
It's the damn FBI's fault we have .40 caliber to begin with.
|
|
Quoted: The FBI has in fact been having lots of problems with their .40 caliber Glocks...and the ballistics unit has been putting out information on the very marginal differences between the service calibers for years. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Meh. A 9mm lover must have become head of the department. The FBI has in fact been having lots of problems with their .40 caliber Glocks...and the ballistics unit has been putting out information on the very marginal differences between the service calibers for years. |
|
|
Quoted:
Nope. A few months ago I read something by some blog fuckwit somewhere that argued 1 .45 does the damage of 3 or 4 9mm rounds...and some people got offended when I said it was bullshit. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Will people finally stop with the handgun caliber debate? Nope. A few months ago I read something by some blog fuckwit somewhere that argued 1 .45 does the damage of 3 or 4 9mm rounds...and some people got offended when I said it was bullshit. Of course it's BS. Everyone knows that .45 cannot possibly do the damage of 3 or 4 9mm rounds: it takes 1 round of 10mm to do the job of 4 9mm rounds. |
|
|
|
9 and 10mm for small and large caliber FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.