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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:16:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you know how I know you're gay? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Originally Posted By BigPony:
Remember, you are responsible for every round that comes from every pull of your trigger. Even in a life or death scenario. A shotgun with 00 Buck will not blow through into your neighbors house or someone outside your house. Stray Bullet Kills Florida Man From 200 Feet Away... Do you know how I know you're gay? Uh oh. 
ETA: I have 12ga and AR in the bedroom. I prefer 12 gauge. It's better at killing 10 feet away. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:17:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Really could have just ended the thread after O_P posted his Box'O'Truth segment on drywall penetration.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:18:08 AM EDT
[#3]
The shotgun has its definitive advantages as a defensive arm but that's certainly not one of them. I think one of the biggest drawbacks of shotguns as fielded as the ignorance of some of its owners on its capabilities and drawbacks.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:22:20 AM EDT
[#4]
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 Come on, have you ever even attempted to pattern a shotgun? Take some of that 00 buck shot, and go shoot it at something that is 15 or 20 feet away. The spread will not be more than a few inches. If you can miss with a rifle, you can miss with a shotgun.Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If buckshot won't travel through a window, like this 9mm did, how will it travel through a bad guy? It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. Come on, have you ever even attempted to pattern a shotgun? Take some of that 00 buck shot, and go shoot it at something that is 15 or 20 feet away. The spread will not be more than a few inches. If you can miss with a rifle, you can miss with a shotgun.And with a shotgun a "hit" is considered at least 1 pellet hits its target disregarding the other 8. so a miss with a shotgun is still possible even with a target that was also "hit" |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:23:37 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The shotgun has its definitive advantages as a defensive arm but that's certainly not one of them. I think one of the biggest drawbacks of shotguns as fielded as the ignorance of some of its owners on its capabilities and drawbacks. That is the truth. People believing the whole racking the shotgun will scare em off. Or the 12 gauge will knock em back 10 feet, or the birdshot is great for defense. Stuff would make me laugh if it was not so dangerous. I am practical, I have 6 children and if someone was to get into my home there is that chance that they will get a hold of one of my children. I could easily have to take a shot at more then 20 feet depending on circumstance. I DO NOT want a shotgun in my hand in that very possible scenario. I want a weapon that will put a bullet precisely wear I need it. not 9 of them in a general area. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:24:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If buckshot won't travel through a window, like this 9mm did, how will it travel through a bad guy? It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:25:52 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If buckshot won't travel through a window, like this 9mm did, how will it travel through a bad guy? It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. Typical pattern expansion I've always figured is 1" per yard. This will vary by choke, load and gun so it's far from absolute but makes a good rule of thumb. At 21' that'd be about 7". that's EASY to miss with. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:26:01 AM EDT
[#8]
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The shotgun has its definitive advantages as a defensive arm but that's certainly not one of them. I think one of the biggest drawbacks of shotguns as fielded as the ignorance of some of its owners on its capabilities and drawbacks. +1 Against soft targets, the shotgun does very well indeed, (though against multiple soft targets, the AR type rifles take that advantage away. As far as penetration goes, advantage AR, if you are actually inside a house. Now, a stray shot outside from a 5.56mm type rifle will travel much further than a pellet of buckshot, but that is not a concern for HD. If you have actual open windows inside your house, plan accordingly, or better yet, don't miss. Economy is the big advantage of the shotgun. And hunters who actually use shotguns might well prefer them for handling reasons. Nothing wrong with a shotgun, but they are second choice if you can have a good AR. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:27:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Halberd a are more effective. Can't miss, longer reach, and deadly effective. Plus it's proven battle technology.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:27:43 AM EDT
[#10]
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The shotgun has its definitive advantages as a defensive arm Really? Other than entry cost and silly regional legal restrictions, name one..... 
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:29:18 AM EDT
[#11]
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Uhh no.... 
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:30:06 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If buckshot won't travel through a window, like this 9mm did, how will it travel through a bad guy? It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. bronnies
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:30:17 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you know how I know you're gay? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Remember, you are responsible for every round that comes from every pull of your trigger. Even in a life or death scenario. A shotgun with 00 Buck will not blow through into your neighbors house or someone outside your house. Stray Bullet Kills Florida Man From 200 Feet Away... Do you know how I know you're gay? Because he mentions it 3 times in every thread he posts in? |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:30:33 AM EDT
[#14]
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Really? Other than entry cost and silly regional legal restrictions, name one..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The shotgun has its definitive advantages as a defensive arm Really? Other than entry cost and silly regional legal restrictions, name one..... That whole slide rackin' thing. Makes hardened criminal poo their britches. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:31:03 AM EDT
[#15]
Sounds like to me there is no perfect weapon/round for HD(by reading these threads anyway) 5.56/9MM and 00 etc etc all are guilty of over penetration and putting your family/neighbors at risk, bird shot from a shotgun supposedly doesn't have enough penetration, go with what you feel most comfortable with, what you can put on the target in one or two shots.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:32:16 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:32:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Use what your are comfortable with and what you have trained with. I thought this was simple?
For me shotgun>ar for my home defense. Your miles may vary and that's perfectly ok. Some of you guys needs to take a few deep breaths. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:32:44 AM EDT
[#18]
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Damn dude, have you ever shot a gun? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. Damn dude, have you ever shot a gun? Yeah, he has.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:33:17 AM EDT
[#19]
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Really? Other than entry cost and silly regional legal restrictions, name one..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The shotgun has its definitive advantages as a defensive arm Really? Other than entry cost and silly regional legal restrictions, name one..... Well, according to at least one poster, choosing a shotgun over an AR for HD proves your sanity. No, I can't explain that one. Because apparently I am insane. Oh well, life is more fun if you are crazy! 
If you were my neighbor, would you rather me be armed with an AR15, or a 12 gauge shotgun? I will use 00, though I still have 000 loaded in my Benelli and my Mossberg. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:35:22 AM EDT
[#20]
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......, go with what you feel most comfortable with, what you can put on the target in one or two shots. Horrible advice. If "what you are comfortable with" is birdshot, you need to get comfortable with a better load (buckshot). |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:36:12 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you know how I know you're gay? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Remember, you are responsible for every round that comes from every pull of your trigger. Even in a life or death scenario. A shotgun with 00 Buck will not blow through into your neighbors house or someone outside your house. Stray Bullet Kills Florida Man From 200 Feet Away... Do you know how I know you're gay? you have a good eye for twinks? |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:37:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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If buckshot won't travel through a window, like this 9mm did, how will it travel through a bad guy? It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. Nonsense. Rifles, Shotguns, and Walls Quit posting BS if you don't know the subject matter. If you ever set up those walls again, can you test a Hornady Vmax? |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:37:18 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you know how I know you're gay? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Remember, you are responsible for every round that comes from every pull of your trigger. Even in a life or death scenario. A shotgun with 00 Buck will not blow through into your neighbors house or someone outside your house. Stray Bullet Kills Florida Man From 200 Feet Away... Do you know how I know you're gay? Because he usually mentions being gay in all his threads? |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:37:51 AM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:38:08 AM EDT
[#25]
This is why I only use those Chinese throwing stars. Bad guy? Thwok! Thwok! Thwok! I'll go all Kung-Fu on him. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:40:18 AM EDT
[#26]
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If you ever set up those walls again, can you test a Hornady Vmax? Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you ever set up those walls again, can you test a Hornady Vmax? Not very likely, as the range has changed the rules and I now cannot do that. But if it means anything to you, based on my experience, I expect a V-Max out of an AR would go through 4 walls like your ex-wife through your life savings.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:41:59 AM EDT
[#27]
lol Bronys |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:42:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not very likely, as the range has changed the rules and I now cannot do that. But if it means anything to you, based on my experience, I expect a V-Max out of an AR would go through 4 walls like your ex-wife through your life savings.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you ever set up those walls again, can you test a Hornady Vmax? Not very likely, as the range has changed the rules and I now cannot do that. But if it means anything to you, based on my experience, I expect a V-Max out of an AR would go through 4 walls like your ex-wife through your life savings.
Did you ever do walls with studs in them? The one linked in the other thread was just 4 sheets of dry wall which isn't really how a true wall is constructed. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:53:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you ever do walls with studs in them? The one linked in the other thread was just 4 sheets of dry wall which isn't really how a true wall is constructed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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If you ever set up those walls again, can you test a Hornady Vmax? Not very likely, as the range has changed the rules and I now cannot do that. But if it means anything to you, based on my experience, I expect a V-Max out of an AR would go through 4 walls like your ex-wife through your life savings.
Did you ever do walls with studs in them? The one linked in the other thread was just 4 sheets of dry wall which isn't really how a true wall is constructed. The odds of hitting a stud aren't that great once, let alone through 4 walls. Odds are you are going to hit drywall, insulation, and then maybe siding if it enters or leaves the house. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:55:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you ever do walls with studs in them? The one linked in the other thread was just 4 sheets of dry wall which isn't really how a true wall is constructed. I've constructed a lot of walls in my time.
Here in Texas, walls have a stud every 16 1/2 inches. That works out to a stud being in 10% of all wall space. That means you have a 90% chance of not hitting a stud with a bullet. The steeper the angle, the greater the chance of hitting a stud. But at 90 degrees, you have a 90% chance of not hitting any stud. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:56:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If buckshot won't travel through a window, like this 9mm did, how will it travel through a bad guy? It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. Are you approximately 14 years of age? |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:57:25 AM EDT
[#32]
I guess we found Joe Biden.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:57:39 AM EDT
[#33]
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The odds of hitting a stud aren't that great once, let alone through 4 walls. Odds are you are going to hit drywall, insulation, and then maybe siding if it enters or leaves the house. And insulation makes not one bit of difference.
Insulated Walls |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:58:09 AM EDT
[#34]
OP, have you been talking to gun store regulars?
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:59:16 AM EDT
[#35]
From my own very non scientific testing, 55 grain 5.56 fmj will zip right through a stud in a standard wall with very little effort and still have quite a bit of energy on the other side. Like stated above though, the odds of hitting a stud to begin with are very small.
tl;dr Don't count on studs to stop your bullets/pellets |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:00:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've constructed a lot of walls in my time.
Here in Texas, walls have a stud every 16 1/2 inches. That works out to a stud being in 10% of all wall space. That means you have a 90% chance of not hitting a stud with a bullet. The steeper the angle, the greater the chance of hitting a stud. But at 90 degrees, you have a 90% chance of not hitting any stud. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Did you ever do walls with studs in them? The one linked in the other thread was just 4 sheets of dry wall which isn't really how a true wall is constructed. I've constructed a lot of walls in my time.
Here in Texas, walls have a stud every 16 1/2 inches. That works out to a stud being in 10% of all wall space. That means you have a 90% chance of not hitting a stud with a bullet. The steeper the angle, the greater the chance of hitting a stud. But at 90 degrees, you have a 90% chance of not hitting any stud. True, but when you have multiple walls overlapping each other. That chance goes up very quickly. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:01:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Less anal fisting, more ballistics research OP
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:03:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Not certain if Brony troll or serious? OP you need to wise up or pipe down.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:09:59 PM EDT
[#39]
if only someone known to be trustworthy would test this empirically, using common HD loads against standard building materials, and test the overpenetration issue.
a guy who did this could write up his results, and host extensive pics on his website so that the reader could see for himself. it would be great if someone were to do this. oh, wait...
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:15:53 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If buckshot won't travel through a window, like this 9mm did, how will it travel through a bad guy? It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. 
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:17:05 PM EDT
[#41]
The walls at my dads house will stop M193 from a carbine at ten feet.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:19:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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If buckshot won't travel through a window, like this 9mm did, how will it travel through a bad guy? It would go through a window on your house but will be slowed enough that "if" they penetrated your neighbors house they certainly would not cause a kill shot. Also a miss with a shotgun inside your house on a bud guy is pretty much not possibru unless you are living in some sort of huge mansion. http:// http://img0.joyreactor.com/pics/post/funny-pictures-auto-patrick-anus-381138.jpeg Must...resist...CoC...violation... |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:25:08 PM EDT
[#43]
I found this proven science information on google - if we follow these instructions we can stem the tide of hitler-class malefactors
Originally Posted By Lady Wolfen Mists:
So lets discuss what a portal is. A metaphysical portal is an opening in one dimension to another including but not limited to astral levels. Any entity with Higher abilities then us, at this point in time, can create a portal. That means spirits, Angelics, and even aliens. Portals are often permanent passage points from one plane to another. They can be old (ancient) portals that allow the movement of spirits of all types to new points that some “wanna bes” opened without thinking or knowing how to close them. You have to remember in portal work the closest astral level to Earth plane is a lower level in which dwell entities that “feed off” our energy and when a rip or opening appears they flock to it like drunks to an open bar. So one must always be cautious with portal work and know what your doing and what level you are opening BEFORE you do it. How can you determine if there is a portal somewhere? Its not easy, I am lucky that I just see them but for those not as blessed then you have to kinda rule out everything else and work from that point. One good way is to hold a programmed crystal (programmed for finding portals) and search an area with the point out from you. If the crystal begins to vibrate and warm immensely then you gots a portal there that may need attention. Please note not all portals are negative some are positive in that they connect to higher astral levels and allow for positive entities. How can ya tell? Well if the area seems cold and malevolent then listen to your intuition and go with that, Close it if in doubt, if it’s a positive portal the entities will find another way to enter our living world, if its negative they wont be able to use that door anymore OK so now you want to know how to close a portal, I can’t tell you that in this small space. You need to find a teacher who can walk you through it several times. But I can tell you how to enforce a wall of security around it keeping the negativity at bay. 1.Create a mixture of the following herbs in equal parts and place in a bag over or tape to the floor by the portal. Herbs are: Rosemary, basil, thyme, yarrow. 2. Light a sacred incense (Blue Roses, Sandalwood or Frankincense) and let the smoke fill the portal entry point or as close as you can get to it. 3. Say the following: “Wall of impenetrability keep away all the negativity this opening allows. Keep all living things safe from it and do not let it seep through the edges or break through in any manner. I am the master here, I am the Life force and I so will it to be! Only positivity walks here this day and for eternity. These herbs control all levels of entry, they have touched each point as of now. Even if they are removed here on my physical they will continue to serve. “. 4. Pass the smoke through once more and say “As I will it so mote it be!” . 5. Your portal is walled and no negativity can bother the living right now. You may want to renew the herbs every 3 or 4 months as well as renew the energies (redoing the wall like the first time) this just keeps the energies strong and everything running 100% . |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:27:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Teeners gonna teen!
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:29:00 PM EDT
[#45]
I didn't know Joe Biden was gay.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:29:55 PM EDT
[#46]
FMJ vs JHP. How does it work?
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:30:02 PM EDT
[#47]
If you have neighbors close enough for any bullet to reach them, you're already failing.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:31:10 PM EDT
[#48]
What if the AC is on? Does that make the bullet go faster or slower? What about noise like a tv?
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:41:20 PM EDT
[#49]
Just another 13er, posting all the bullshit that 12ers and older refuse to post.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 12:41:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Any round you discharge will find it's way to where you don't want it during a moment of high stress and poor marksmanship, so pick a weapon and train with it until you're proficient and then maintain it.
If you are so damn close to your neighbors that discharging a firearm gives you anxieties, then by all means buy a baseball bat or a bowling ball. |
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