Some of yall are almost creepy with your worship of all things Israel.





I'm an American, personally, so I guess I don't get it.



 

They would become a pariah overnight.  So much so, that we could not even help them.  They would be totally isolated at best.  That will not happen so there is no use even considering the hypothetical.

It is very creepy.

I'm partial to the threads about their military wimminz.

Indeed, those are NOT creepy at all!

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/what-an-israeli-attack-on-iran-will-mean-for-the-muslims-1.429646

 

Again, it beats getting nuked.

At some point, the ME just might get tired enough of "being turned on its head" to actively support regime change in Iran.

This... If Israel really feels threatened there is nothing they wouldn't do. If they REALLY ever believe that Iran will use the nuke against them, well Tehran will be a nice parking lot after it stops glowing.

I would predict, a lot of shaking of fists by their islamic neighbors, words of condemnation from the UN and the price of oil will go up, not much else.

Ummm....no

To conclude that Israel faces "certain annihilation" in the foreseeable future is unwise. Almost the inverse is probably true, actually.

Israel has maybe around 200 nuclear warheads and the means to deliver them, PLUS beneficial prevailing winds. Conversely, Iran doesn't even have a single atomic bomb, reliable means to launch their imaginary nukes, AND they have to contend with the fact that any Iranian nuke strike on Israel will quite possibly carry fallout right on back to Tehran (or, at the very least, other Muslim nations like the largely-Shi'ite Iraq). Many Israeli (and American) intelligence experts have determined that Iran is unlikely to use nuclear weapons...if they even had them. Even in Iran, they guy doing most of the most famous sabre rattling (the President) has no authority at all to launch any strikes (and is in political trouble anyways).

Israel has very legitimate concerns, but "certain" annihilation? Hardly.

Israel will be able to only delay their program slightly. It's a lot of risk for what in the end will be little reward.

To destroy every facility they need heavy bombers and they don't have them.  

We're the only ones who could do it correctly and seriously delay their program, but there is NO way that's going to happen.

Face it Iran is going nuclear. We can't be the like the little Dutch boy plugging holes trying to keep nuclear proliferation from happening. MISSILE DEFENSE.  We need to put more money into MISSILE DEFENSE and work tireless at fielding it, but unfortunately our President has promised that he'll appease the Russians by killing it in his second term.

I know you know how many times the USA and Russia came to having an accidental nuclear exchange simply by misreading the other side. You really think Iran's competent enough to be a nuclear player? You want them having nukes in an area of the world we get about 30% of the world's oil supply from?  Not me.

Just the fact that Iran has nukes will increase tensions in the region, prospect of war with Israel, and cause the price of a barrel of oil to climb so high we'll be walking to work.

....and those prices you mention would absolutely, positively PALE in comparison to what they would be after an Israeli strike. A nuclear-but-otherwise-business-as-normal Iran would have comparatively negligible effects on gas prices (we would not be "walking to work" just because Iran becomes a nuclear power and does nothing else). If all-out war ensued over an Israeli strike, however, it would effect not only your gas bill but the entire global economy.

Sure,Iran doesn't have ICBM capability right now, but they do have Hezbollah in their back pocket.  Things are bad for Israel right now, but they have been in worse binds before, and things could always get worse for them.  I'm glad I don't live there.

I agree with some of the previous posters, the only way Iran's nuke program will be stopped is with either a full land invasion and / or use of small yield tactical nukes.  As I have stated in a previous thread, we need to remember that Iran's key nuke facilities are mostly underground.  Ahmadinejad may be a nut job, but he is also a civil engineer, with a hard-on for tunnel building. They aren't stupid, and they aren't going to go through all that trouble just to dig shallow tunnels to protect their stuff.  No, conventional arms will just stir up a hornets nest AND will only buy short term security.  Israel is between a rock and hard place as far as a long term, Iranian solution is concerned.

What would you do is you were part of a HOA and one dipshit in your complex had made it fucking clear that they intended to murder you, rape and murder your wife and children, and then burn your fuckign house down and you keep going to the HOA and your immediate neighbors for help and they wont do shit?????   I'll tell you right now I woudl kill the mother fucker burn down his house and piss on his spouse and offspring and then look at the rest of the neighbor hood and say "Well you shoudl have fuckign done something"

I wish the Israelis well, however I think the whole world would be better off if the middle-east glassed itself.

Sure it would suck for a while losing access to that oil, but then we would just develop alternatives and we would be better off for it.

Ok, then...
Welcome to another bash the Israelis thread.
Posters like CitadelSC, et al spend every waking moment scouring arfcoms active topics for the next big opportunity.

Never under estimate them. Ask all the nations surrounding that tiny country about their experience with that.

Beating several poorly trained, poorly led, poorly equipped armies of Arab conscripts doesn't require too much military expertise.  

Please post an example of Israel bashing in this thread, by anyone. Some posters do not believe that a half assed attack on the iranian nuke program is the best course for Israel, or the US ( you know the country we live in ) for that matter. Israel does not have the capability to put much of a dent into the iranian nuke program using conventional weapons. I know this because Israel has not already done so. The previous attacks against syrian and iraqi nuke programs were not preceded by threats and bluster, they saw a threat they had the means to take out and they just did it. Hell I dont know if they have officially claimed the syrian attack yet. But from those attacks the iranians learned a lot, and have dispersed and hardened their program, not putting it all into one nuke reactor.

The previous poster that said our best course of action is to build up the technology of missle defense is correct IMO. If Israel had an effective missle defense, along with the nukes they already have, no one would be crazy enough to attack them.

What about their first war, when they beat those poorly trained, led and equipped arab armies with a much smaller poorly trained and equipped jewish army

I'd rather Bibi be on the ticket instead of Mittens!

At this point, I'd say they were going to pound Iran into the sand, and the new Egypt better stay the fuck out, otherwise they might see a repeat performance of '67, which in all honesty, wouldn't be a bad thing, hell...I wish Israel would just pound the entire region back into the stone age, but with the UN and the Kenyan fuckstain in the White House, it's not likely that they'd be able to!

can I come with you?? I'll bring my own toys!


and maybe you could hook me up with some of those IDF hotties??

I remember Reagan.

God, we need another one like him now.

That is so much BS

I believe they can and will either destroy irans nuke program or set it back a while

Israel has what obama lacks, Balls!



 

Then why have they not already done so? You are 100% right, they have balls. They do not bluster or make threats. They do what is needed to survive, just like in iraq in the 80s and a few years ago in syria. Why have they not already attacked the iranian nuke program with conventional weapons if they have the capability to do so?

I was OK up till the part in red,WTF ?

His wife & Kids?

Something wrong with you





 

Yep, thats why he's one of the few on my ignore list



 

I believe they have been as patient as they can afford to be, I believe obama has strung them along with vague promises of "doing something"

They won't wait much longer.

They don't want the world to think they jumped the gun.

They are waiting for one more out right threat from the midget leader of iran to destroy the whole country and then it's fo time



 

You're naive if you rule that out.

If you are convinced you will be nuked if you don't stop Iran, and the only way to stop Iran is with nukes, why the hell wouldn't you?  No matter the world's reaction, it is no worse than what Iran is already preparing for.

Israel will come out on top, no matter what.

No country, not even Israel has a right to an un-ending carte blanche for their actions. Accountability should be the name of the game.







 

Good article and good points



 

if you are Jewish, you sure can, every war Israel had, there was a wave of volunteers from other countries and they had a program to accommodate them in IDF, but I believe, you have to be Jewish.  




I have 1 more year in reserve, until I am too old and I never lapsed my
address change registration with the consulate, so if Order 8 is issued
(total mobilization) I will get that postcard.  I will post it on
arfcom and we will assemble a little expeditionary force, okey?



about IDF hotties, every chick in Israel is an IDF hottie, just like every guy is an IDF soldier.





 

Not Jewish but I know several???

and yes, I'm well aware of how the IDF works , and contrary to your claim, they're not all hotties, I've seen quite a few that definitely were NOT hotties! think thinner Rosie O'Donnell with greasy hair and bad complexion.

Edit:
I'll change my name if that would help?? and I'm very familiar with Merkava's as well!

The Arab world apparently needs their ass kicked regularly about every 20 years or so and Israel is the only country willing to do it.

You do understand that the modern day nation of Israel isn't the same entity as the biblical tribe of Israel, right?

dunno...

israel CAN take out iran's nuclear facilities, but only with their own nukes.

myself, i only see 2 ways of dealing with iran's nuclear facilities (well 2.5).

1. use nuclear weapons to breach and destroy the sites
2. invade with a land force, go to the sites and destroy them in detail.

version 2.5 (not sure this works and only amerika could do this) bomb the hell out of the sites for weeks after taking out all of iran's air defences.

note that any version above will probably bring about worse economic consequences than the 2008 credit default crash. and could likely get china and russia's bowels in an uproar. and think about what it does to europe. if the flow of oil in the middle east gets curtailed, which it very well could for a while at least, europe, on the verge economic armageddon, could go right off the precipice, pulling the rest of the world with it.

also the amerikan political landscape has a lot to do with what israel is and will do depending on how the election campaign goes this summer. and perhaps that has more than a little to do with israel's government unification. they are battening down the hatches in case they have to act when it becomes obvious (if it does) that obama will be re-elected.

You may be right, but that goes against how Israel has handled this situation every time it has come up in the past. They saw a threat, assessed their own capabilities, and used what force was needed to eliminate the threat. No bluster, no threats. As you said, they have balls when it comes to this sort of thing.

I am puzzled as to why they have deviated from what has worked so well for them in the past. The only answer I can come up with is that they have assessed their own capabilites, the threat, the distances involved and the fact that iran has spread their program over a large area, underground for the most part, and came up with the answer that they can not take out the program in a meaningfull way using only conventional weapons.

I see the usual buzzwords and talking points are being repeated here.

Economic Armageddon followed by every Muslim country, from Morocco to Indonesia, going nuclear with the help of Saudi funds and Pakistani engineers.

In 1948 there were quite a few non-Jewish foreigners fighting for Israel.

I don't think the House of Saud has that much love for the Persians.  The Pakistani engineers have been working abroad for over a decade, and it would be foolish to believe they have not been up to their necks with the Iranians since day one.  Israel turned the other cheek when Saddam was launching scuds into Jerusalem and Tel Aviv when Iraq had overrun Kuwait and was poised to enter Saudi Arabia, and I suspect the Saudis might actually look the other way if/when Israel goes after Iran just like they did when Israel went after Iraq.

There's a huge difference between bombing a nuclear reactor with conventional munitions and using nukes. If the Israelis did that then every country in the region would arm itself.

The Saudis wouldn't shed a tear for Iran but they and all the other Arabs would fear being next in line.

I see several things happening:
(1.) Life for Haredi's is going to change: no more welfare, studying in a Yeshiva all day, having super large families, and exemption from serving in the IDF
(2.) An eventual End to the persecution of Jewish Converts by the Interior Ministry and the Rabbinate
(3.) Securing the Southern border with the Sinai: lately cross border attacks on Eliat have been increasing
(4.) Possibly some strikes against Hamas in Gaza. Israel would be wise to annex a 3 mile wide strip of the southern portion of Gaza next to Egypt, force the Palestinians out.
This would end all weapons smuggling through tunnels.
(5.) A strike against Iran would be a logistical and operational nightmare due to the nature and plethora of targets. Many of these targets are heavily defended and buried so deeply
that the GBU-28's will not be able to destroy them. Also the ranges are too far for their fighter bombers. Israel can't refuel and support air strikes. They don't have the ordinance, refueling capability, nor do they have heavy bombers. Israel could engage in a missile exchange but the targets will still be there.
Short of commando strikes very deep into Iran (again...not an option). I think Israel's only choice is to have a pre-emptive Nuclear strike and the resultant international suicide.
So...this is out. Israel is going to have to live with a Nuclear armed Iran.

Israel's best bet would be to secure the Gaza strip, then carry out some strikes against Hezbollah in Lebanon.

Buy DIG, not DUG.

I think the Saudis and most of the Arab nations understand that they don't have to fear Israel unless they start making legitimate threats towards Israel.  The threat seems to be legitimate because we are putting up an ABM system in Poland supposedly because of the threat of Iranian capabilities to deliver nukes to Europe.  The Arab nations have known about Israels nuclear capabilities for quite some time, but most of them have not felt the need to develop a program of their own, nor do they start their government meetings with 'Death to Israel.  Death to America'.

I'm not convinced Israel has completely  removed a nuclear first strike from their options list.  It may be at the bottom of their list but I suspect it is still there.

I'm not so sure about that, but it could definitely hit the futures market in a bad way.

What happened in '67, or '73?  Obviously, the world economy didn't collapse then.  Why would it now?  This is "Israel vs.Persia", not "Israel vs. practically the entire Arab World"

The Iranians don't have the capacity to close or interrupt oil exports by any nation in the Straights of Hormuz indefinitely.  Why do you think the buildup of U.S. forces in the region is taking place now?  The U.S. could support Israeli military action under the guise of keeping the shipping lanes open (which it will do), and avoid direct military participation in destroying targets that the Israelis are capable of servicing on their own.    

The campaign will take weeks, IMHO.  Once Iranian ADA assets are neutralized (I don't believe their air-defense "umbrella" is that daunting of a threat to IAF attack), it'll be "game on* while aircraft are pushed to their operational limits, and fresh pilots "hot-seat" aircraft just as soon as they can be turned around from the previous mission.  I'd hate to be an IAF wrench-turner.  It's going to be a busy time for them.    

I believe in my heart of hearts that the only unconventional ordnance that Israel would deploy-if any-would be sub-surface, for a variety of reasons.  In any case, I don't believe they're needed for what Israel intends to do.

You can count on air strikes in down town Tehran.  If you're part of the regime, you'll have a nice bullseye painted on the roof of your home, office, and / or bunker.  

Saudi Arabia isn't going to stop exporting Oil, any more than Kuwait will.  Those two countries DO NOT want Iran to field nuclear weapons, and I believe they will passively accommodate Israel if they can do so without their public knowing it.  It's utterly ironic that Israel has their blessing to attack Iran. Or is it?  The Persians aren't Arabs.  The Saudi royal family is "tolerated", not loved.  They have to tread carefully here for the sake of their own survival.    

I have no idea how Iraq will respond.  On the one hand, they are developing close ties with Iran, but on the other, oil revenue is a hard fact of life to jeopardize by taking sides with what was once a hated enemy.

Iran has more to lose here, IMO.  From what I understand, they can't even refine their own oil.  Once gas imports come to a screeching halt,  the Iranian economy and standard of living gets even worse than it is now.  Totalitarian regimes can only last so long, no matter how harsh the measures taken are to protect the status quo.  If Syria can barely hold out now (unable to control an uprising that's lasted over a year) with their government intact, imagine how difficult it would be if Tehran were under attack by surgical air strikes and cruise missiles to "decapitate" key leadership.

It's going to get interesting.