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Posted: 4/13/2017 12:46:17 AM EDT
[#1]
One 10/22 and the Garand are the only one's right now that I will not add optics to. If I get another 10/22, I'll red dot that instead.
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Posted: 4/13/2017 12:46:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Only 1 of my ARs has optics... and it has BUIS... the SPR I built last month in anticipation of finally being allow to use a semi-automatic to hunt coyote & deer here in PA...
(PGC f'd us over, no go for deer, but at least I can use it on coyote and squirrel this year  )
All of my other builds are A2 uppers and FSBs... I like the simplicity and durability. If/when my eyesight starts to stretch on me, I might consider an optic, but it will most certainly be co-witnessed with irons/BUIS... Come to think of it, my first few hunting rifles had irons only... did the job rather well... It wasn't until I had to change stand locations that shots beyond 100 yards became possible, and with that, a need for optics. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 12:48:21 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
except it isn't, the skill of the shooter will be the ultimate determining factor. There are people that can use irons out to 1k yards all day and some people with a high power expensive optic can't. All about skill Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll always have an optic because it's superior in every way to irons. Plus with an aimpoint you can shoot from awkward positions faster. That's how I look at it. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 12:48:36 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since when are Aimpoints likely to fail?  |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 12:49:07 AM EDT
[#5]
My PD still runs irons on our rifles. I have multiple dedicated iron sight ARs.
One of my favorite rifles is a Sig M400 Upper on a Spikes lower with Geissele SSA-E and a carry handle. It's my back up rifle I take to classes incase my primary goes down. It's also one of my favorite guns to shoot and comes out every range trip. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 12:49:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a ridiculous statement. An Aimpoint is not prone to failure by any stretch of the imagination. There are cases where irons are superior to optics for certain reasons, but outside of those very specific things, red dot > irons all day, every day. out of
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Posted: 4/13/2017 12:49:55 AM EDT
[#7]
All the time. My only optic is an Acog.
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Posted: 4/13/2017 12:52:17 AM EDT
[#8]
( i )
We started with BB guns in Cub Scouts We moved up to 22 rifles in the Boy Scouts. Nothing has changed. Some of us get older and just get glasses but we can still see our sights to hit our target. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 12:57:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Most of my rifles have optics, most of my pistols iron. I like aperture sights on rifles as well. I got a few new rifles last week - all have iron, will see.
2 were lever action rifles - no real problems with irons on them (abet I still prefer aperture), technically a third was lever action (falling block) - so iron is still appropriate (abet it is begging for optics). Then there was a pump (iron again), and a second 22, currently iron as well. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 12:58:16 AM EDT
[#10]
I've been shooting over 40 years and have never used anything but iron sights. My eyes are changing and making that more difficult though. I've been thinking about trying a red dot lately. It's inevitable.
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:01:16 AM EDT
[#11]
Hell yeah irons rock!! Not saying I don't love my scopes also of course. But irons will always be there.
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:05:35 AM EDT
[#12]
Reverse snob thread.
Go to rifles all have optics, buis, and lights. I consider them KISS. When HPA passes, I'll probably sell some iron only guns to fund cans. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:06:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been shooting over 40 years and have never used anything but iron sights. My eyes are changing and making that more difficult though. I've been thinking about trying a red dot lately. It's inevitable. I still have irons on my rifles and they are sighted in. If the rifle allows me to see the irons through my optic, I zero the RDS, get the irons close using an absolute co-witness on that RDS, and then verify the irons with some rounds downrange. After that, I then generally ignore them. And I just went to the dark side, putting my first reflex sight on a pistol. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:07:43 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I've been noticing that less and less people seem to still be shooting iron sights these days. In just about every thread where a new guy is asking about what rifle he should get for his HD, SHTF, OMGWTFBBQ rifle.... every seems to suggest to get XYZ rifle and get an Aimpoint PRO or MRO or you gotta have a Vortex SPARC. Now, don't get me wrong, I have a few different rifles with several different optics.... but my go to AR is running good old iron sights. To me simple is better, I know aimpoint makes great quality optics ( I own 2) but even with their 50,000 hour battery life, they are still prone to failure. So after saying all that, I guess the real question is, anyone else still rely on irons for their go to? Yes, to a large extent because quality optics cost too much. I'll wait until I can afford something nice. A decent optic plus mount costs substantially more than all but one of my firearms. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:09:11 AM EDT
[#15]
I have a cheapo $20 reflex sight i throw on an AR sometimes whenever i run my buddy's landfill course. All shots under 20 yards, i keep both eyes open and don't even bother to zero the sight. Other than that, irons. He gets into that nightvision shit and scopes as lobg as the rifle, fuck all that. He has probably $3000 in optics, i never understood it
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:10:34 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm poor. So yeah.  |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:10:59 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reverse snob thread.
Go to rifles all have optics, buis, and lights. I consider them KISS. When HPA passes, I'll probably sell some iron only guns to fund cans. Because there is nothing Keep It Simple Stupid about all that bullshit. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:19:17 AM EDT
[#18]
I use it up to 100 yards (max range in my area), if I really concentrate I can do 6 or 7 MOA (the target I use is 10.5 x 10.5 inches with about a 5.5x5.5 circle), plain M4gery , stock trigger and bulk M193.
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:20:59 AM EDT
[#19]
I still shoot with iron sights occasionally because I think it's fun.
Social purposes? I'll "run" my T2 or Viper PST 1-4. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:22:11 AM EDT
[#20]
Irons are no different than optics. Both are an index. Irons work when electrics don't. Irons are inherent. Optics are additional. Your question is laughable. Learn and live the foundation,and layer the advantages in your favor as they become available. Quit looking for short cuts, and learn the fucking rifle. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:23:04 AM EDT
[#21]
My CAR has the MBUS sights it came with mounted on it still. I only ever sighted them in. I have pretty much used an Aimpoint exclusively since buying one probably ten years ago.
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:26:19 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:27:03 AM EDT
[#23]
I shoot both. At 30 years old and 20/30 vision, I have no problems with irons, but I shoot with optics more often.
The only firearms I have that don't have some kind of optics are pistols, shotguns, an Auto Ordnance M1 Carbine, and an old Sendra Corp 20" A1. When teaching new shooters, like my stepdaughter, I start them with optics because it gets them comfortable, on target and therefore confident, faster. Think of it like teaching a kid to drive: Start them on an automatic to get them familiar with driving, instrumentation, safety, the rules of the road, etc, before putting them behind the wheel of a stick. Before throwing more stuff at them. The only rifle my stepdaughter really likes to shoot is the M1, because of the reduced muzzle blast of the .30 Carbine compared to the AR's. But she likes using optics more than she likes irons, so I'll probably end up throwing an Ultimak scout rail and a HoloSun on it when funds allow. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:30:14 AM EDT
[#24]
What's this "run" bullshit???
 My sights don't "run"! They just sit there where I can use 'em! And I damned sure don't "run" anymore either; too old and out of shape!
Everybody wants to sound like these YouTube ninjas! |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:31:06 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
out of Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That's a ridiculous statement. An Aimpoint is not prone to failure by any stretch of the imagination. There are cases where irons are superior to optics for certain reasons, but outside of those very specific things, red dot > irons all day, every day. out of |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:34:26 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most of my handguns, and my shotguns, I can't see well enough to use irons on a rifle. I still practice with them though, but my eyes prefer a little dot if it's available. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:35:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
I've been noticing that less and less people seem to still be shooting iron sights these days. 
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:38:08 AM EDT
[#28]
I went through a "IRON SIGHT ALL THE THINGS" phase. Then I had a change of heart and got a vortex scope and a trijicon mro. Now I'm thinking of taking them off and going back to irons.
I think I'm just happier shooting irons. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:39:50 AM EDT
[#29]
Fuck no.
ETA: Except for my pistols and Garand. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:43:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Less than 5% of my guns have optics of any kind.
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:44:06 AM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:45:09 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
except it isn't, the skill of the shooter will be the ultimate determining factor. There are people that can use irons out to 1k yards all day and some people with a high power expensive optic can't. All about skill No shit an experienced shooter is going to shoot better than an inexperienced one, regardless of which sighting system is used. 
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:46:09 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will agree that "prone to failure" wasn't the exact right wording.... but which one between iron sights and an aimpoint is more likely to fail? |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:48:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reverse snob thread.
Go to rifles all have optics, buis, and lights. I consider them KISS. When HPA passes, I'll probably sell some iron only guns to fund cans. Gd jerks off to that shit, along with some other contingent w/ normal snobbery. God forbid people are happy with what they have, and don't purse swing at each other. Hell, I'm probably guilty of it as well
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:49:12 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a cheapo $20 reflex sight i throw on an AR sometimes whenever i run my buddy's landfill course. All shots under 20 yards, i keep both eyes open and don't even bother to zero the sight. Other than that, irons. He gets into that nightvision shit and scopes as lobg as the rifle, fuck all that. He has probably $3000 in optics, i never understood it |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:50:29 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Knights In Satan's Service? Because there is nothing Keep It Simple Stupid about all that bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Reverse snob thread.
Go to rifles all have optics, buis, and lights. I consider them KISS. When HPA passes, I'll probably sell some iron only guns to fund cans. Because there is nothing Keep It Simple Stupid about all that bullshit. lol "KISS" rifles are just some bullshit poor people made up so they don't feel so bad about being poor. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:50:46 AM EDT
[#37]
The #1 thing that will always make me faithful to the irons is rain.
Can't see shit through rain covered lenses. We went up to our place in the mountains for a full tactical retard day. A light drizzle started and in short order the guys with optics couldn't see anything. If you're standing still it wasn't a big deal to keep them clear but as soon as we started running around and *running into* the rain the problems started. My iron sights; however, were clear all day long. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:51:08 AM EDT
[#38]
The majority of countries in this world have no idea what Eotech or Aimpoint are.
Every wonder how people hit their targets before 1999? |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:54:34 AM EDT
[#39]
If my eyes were like the way they were prior to my 40's all I'd use would be irons. I personally hate scopes.
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Posted: 4/13/2017 1:57:15 AM EDT
[#40]
My 20 inch rifle is strictly irons, for when I feel nostalgic.
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Posted: 4/13/2017 2:04:04 AM EDT
[#41]
There are so many good budget optics solutions now that I find myself putting an optic on almost everything, where I used to shoot mostly irons. Doesn't help that my vision is a little worse than it used to be.
That being said I always enjoy shooting irons and built an A3 earlier this year just to get some more practice shooting irons at longer ranges. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 2:09:15 AM EDT
[#42]
Under 100 yards and I am pretty much as real world accurate with appatures as optics. Appatures don't see well in twilight, and well appatures don't do thermal either.
In the target world, by tuning your apature size and front sight insert size (to the target and range), you can make miracles happen. Given the chance, I teach appature first. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 2:13:54 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does the Army and Marines even teach iron sight shooting anymore? |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 2:17:33 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What common failure have you seen on an Aimpoint? |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 2:25:04 AM EDT
[#45]
My go to rifle for property/home defense is an old Vietnam era A1.
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Posted: 4/13/2017 2:25:21 AM EDT
[#46]
My M39 (Sako) does not have a picatinny rail, so I'm stuck with the factory iron sights. Darn that 1943 technology.
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Posted: 4/13/2017 2:28:30 AM EDT
[#47]
Optics are great, and I love them, but they do fall short.
They fog. They get rained on. RDS dots wash out in bright sunlight (note that I am in AZ). They lose some light in the lenses and it can be enough to lose the target in a dark environment. I shoot at night, including matches, and this is a real phenomenon in the real world. They lose zero. They run out of batteries (even Aimpoints). I typically run irons, an RDS and an infrared laser. I zero the irons live fire. I zero the RDS to the irons. I zero the laser to the RDS. I do a system check periodically. If anything does not coincidentally zero then I know that a component has lost zero. For all the fatties out there that want to flame me for using the term "run": I run my gear - on the clock. It is called fire and maneuver. Standing your ground will get your ass wiped off of the planet. It is a simple fact. Besides, it is a necessary component of 3 Gun. First we had "Fat Shaming" and now we have "Fit Shaming". Live and let live and get off of our backs for not being lethargic. |
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Posted: 4/13/2017 2:31:24 AM EDT
[#48]
yes
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Posted: 4/13/2017 2:33:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Actually no actually
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Posted: 4/13/2017 2:43:14 AM EDT
[#50]
Only my M1A and pistols.
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