Browning, 1200 pounds, beats the insurance!

Does anyone know what a standard floor in a apartment building will hold?  My current safe is a $300 400LB safe.  I would like to get something a whole lot better.

If you want to keep people from cutting into the top of your safe just mount the safe into a place where the top is hard to access.

I have what I call my GUN ROOM.  Its concrete and steel walls with a steel deadbolted door with alarm system.

It has room for 50 rifles and 25 handguns at the moment along with all my reloading supplies and loading bench......Its my home in my home.

Absolutely, and I prefer less of gov.org in my life rather than more.  Although I imagine it would never be possible, I'd be more than happy to exchange less restriction for a higher obligation towards safety.  Where, for instance, I can legally own just about anything as long as I keep it safe and take responsibility for it.

Don' you think, though, that we should at least try and police our own, and strongly encourage others to get the training and education they need to avoid having your guns involved in avoidable accidents or stolen and used against us?

Maybe I should clarify and say that good security doesn't begin and end with a safe, not by any means.  Taking reasonable precautions as you describe *IS* the point, and taking little or NO precautions is my beef.  A gun in a nightstand, standing in the closet, on display in a glass case, or hanging on the wall is NOT secure, is it?

A lock box is good, a safe is better, a strong room even more so, etc.  Having a gun on you is probably best of all!  However, what do you do with all the extras, or when you leave the house?  No one can watch them 100% of the time.

Beyond the specifics of securing guns, my position is that if you take reasonable steps to safeguard your weapons, you've done what's reasonably necessary.  No, you can't prevent everything bad, but why wouldn't you lock up your guns?  Besides, now there's one more data point for the anti's to use against us all.

I still maintain that if you don't take even reasonable precautions, then you ARE responsible if someone else does something bad with your weapon, something that YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED, at least with THAT weapon.

You wouldn't feel bad about that?

How's about someone letting me know where I can find a Butt Ugly, Big Ass safe?

I am presently looking for a large (min.36" wide) safe and they all have pretty paint and pinstripes, electronic locks and lots of other bullshit. Doesn't anyone make plain old large fire rated safes anymore?  

Doing the concrete block w/steel door is out for both room and expense (the doors are $1K). Why would I spend a grand on a door, when I can get the whole safe for another $100?
 
Idea's would be greatly appreciated.

DScott,
You're still basically saying that what is good enough for you is good enough for everybody. That is not reality. Everybody's security needs are not the same.

As for who is at fault if someone breaks into my house, it certainly is not me. What happens with my property after someone steals it is beyond my control. The blame for any misuse of that property is not mine.

The last break-in in my county that involved gun theft occurred in a residence equipped with a safe. Didn't do much good. Is that home owner to be blamed for leaving tools lying around unsecured?

Place the blame where it belongs.

I am a responsible adult. I don't need anybody "policing" me to see that I perform to their standards.

Iowa doesn't have mandatory firearm storage laws. I want to keep it that way.  I will not willingly further this idea that the only reasonable way to store a firearm is locked away. Not everyone lives where it is the only responsible solution to do so.

Yes, but the word "reasonable" is where you are getting into trouble.  What is reasonable to you is not reasonable to everyone else.  To go back to my previous example, is buying a $1500 safe "reasonable" for someone who owns one $200 shotgun they bought at WallyWorld?  If not, what would be "reasonable"?  A trigger lock?  An $80 cheapie Stack-On cabinet?   I think both of us know for a B&E situation those are pretty much useless.

When most others talk about "reasonable" security for their guns, they are refering to the cost of replacements (or irreplaceable items...) vs. the cost of a safe.  Those following this argument would likely say if you only own one gun, then no a safe is not worth it.  However, when you start to argue legal accountability, then 1 gun or 100, it does not matter.  Both have the potential to just as deadly, and following that argument, then yes, a single $200 gun [i]would[/i] require the same $1500 safe as, say, a $10,000 collection.  You don't find anything wrong with that statement?  Seems to me that a large percentage of the population can't afford that type of dollars for a single gun.  Are we to esentially force them to give up their right to self defense by making them criminally or civily responsible for other people's crimes?

(cont)

(cont)


Would I feel bad if someone used one of my guns to commit a murder?  Sure, just like I would feel bad if it wasn't one of my guns.  Would I feel personally responsible for it?  No - it was the scumbag who robbed me and went on to kill someone who did the crime, not me.  Do I think I should be criminally or civilly responsible for it?  No.  IMHO, the increasing tendancy to blame a person for a crime someone else committed is one of the scarier things about this day and age.

Not to be inflammatory or anything, but your logic in this case really seems to mirror that of the anti-gunners.  Replace the "securing your guns" with "gun control" and it is pretty much the same.  "Reasonable" is very subjective.  It would be "reasonable" for most of the antis to ban all sale of ar-15's, period.  Is that "reasonable" to us?  I sure hope not, if you are hanging out here.

It is NOT the gun's fault.  It is NOT the law abiding owner whose gun got stolen's fault.  It is the fault of the guy who pulled the trigger.  Period.

Rocko

To those who can't afford the $1-2000 outlay for a gunsafe, check with your local safedealers, many of them have financing available.

Best investment I ever made was getting my safe.  Everything ends up in there.  Anything small and valuable gets stuffed in the safe, mad money, watches, jewelry, etc.

And something else to remember, guns in a safe don't get dusty!!!  Used to store the rifles behind the door and in the closet, but they would end up covered in dust that the gun oil seemed to atract like moths to a light bulb.

We sell American Security gun safes and Jack is right, we do offer financing. I'd also have to agree with several who have urged you to BUY BIG. You will ALWAYS find stuff to fill up a safe with. I've had customers come back to me at ARM USA and THANK ME for talking them into a larger safe. I know what I know because we are working on our 3rd safe. I have a hard time BSing people - it's just what I would do.

As far as cost, you can get a 40W x 60H x 26D safe for about $1500, and one 72H runs about $1700. Or you can get a smaller one for $7-800 and STUFF your guns in. Depending on the state you live in, costs may be higher, due to transportation cost and where the safes are mfr'd. We get ours out of Fontana, so they're not too far away.

And we tell people all the time - "I'd rather sell you a safe than a gun." My guns are worth 25 times what I've got invested in safes. It makes me sick to hear of guns getting stolen.

Jolynne
[url]www.50BMGstore.com/amsecsaf.htm[/url]

Glad to see that almost 80% of us here who voted have a safe.

Is that the best you can do?  



Necessarily? Necessarily?  OMG... of COURSE its not the answer.  More gun legislation, now thats what we need.



As do I.  And the Government, and YOU, can keep your stinking noses out of what I do in my home, thank you very much.



Thank God I live in the USA.



What I do in my home is my business.... and how I store my posessions is my business.  If I want to keep a loaded rifle by the door, that's my business how I train my children to use and respect guns.  Guns dont kill people, people do.... or have you forgotten that?



Absolutely NOT.  You must be a lawyer... I would never sue someone like that, this country is sue crazy... and you are part of the problem.  If someone's guns are stolen, and used in a crime, then I am going after the jerkwad who committed the CRIME, and then also get him for theft.  I would not feel any different if it happened to me or a loved one.  I see no need in playing the blame game as you do.



[puke]



Nope, I sure dont.  It's in the drawer, right next to the bed.... where I could USE it if I needed it.

But we do mostly agree about safes... just not on the legal aspects of the Government getting involved in what I do in my home, on my land.  This country is getting out of hand, and we see it so much, we are getting desensitized to it.  Makes me sick.  You take care of you and yours, and I will take care of me and mine.

Thank you thebeekeeper1.... that is exaclty how I feel.  I am just not anywhere near as eloquent.

Your previous statements contradict this precept.



Now this IS interesting, really.  Because I would initially feel the same way.  However, that makes a class of the "gun owning elite" who can afford to deal with this.

However, it's voodoo politics, and the bottom line is... that neither types of gun legislation should be allowed.



Nope.  We should educate our own.  There is enough "policing" going on already.  



Strongly encourage, through education, yes.  Mandatory anything?  NO.

Well you are entitled yo your opinion... but the point of view of pointing blame makes me sick, as I have said.  You cannot PREVENT these things.  Sure, you can take steps.... but its the SCUMBAGS who stole the gun who assume 100% of the responsibilty.  Absolutely, unequivocally.



I'd feel bad about not having my guns.  I'd feel bad for the loved ones who experienced a loss in the crime.  But I would feel NO responsibility whatsover.  The blam lies on the bad guys... not on me.

I have a 12 gun cabinet.  I would not call them safes.  It is better than nothing, but still inadequate.