Do you have a C&R FFL? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Do you have a C&R FFL? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 4/18/2017 10:18:18 AM EDT

[#1]

I have an 01 but if not I might have gone the c & r route

Posted: 4/18/2017 1:23:49 PM EDT

[#2]

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Please let this rumor die.......

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You also give the ATF the right to come into your house anytime they want to.

Please let this rumor die.......

First of all from the C&R reg handbook section 478.23 a. through d. details the inspection and the "rights" of "ANY ATF Officer" In a nut shell IF they are not aware of any violation they may inspect during "business hours" also construed as "when you are home" your premises, once during a 12 month period. 478.23 subsection (c) states;(c) may enter during hours of operation the premises, including places of storage, of any licensed collector for the purpose of inspecting or examining the records, documents, firearms, and ammunition referred to in paragraph (a) of this section (1) for ensuring compliance with the recordkeeping requirements of this part not more than once during any 12-month period or (2) when such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation.

At the election of the licensed collector, the annual inspection permitted by this paragraph shall be performed at the ATF office responsible for conducting such inspection in the closest proximity to the collector’s premises. If they Suspect anything, they can inspect any time they want.

Posted: 4/18/2017 1:25:28 PM EDT

[#3]

Had one and let it go, the worthless ATF never sent the renewal form. Cocksuckers.

Posted: 4/18/2017 1:27:27 PM EDT

[#4]

I ordered the application form on the ATF website maybe two months ago now. Never got anything from them, so far

Posted: 4/18/2017 1:28:37 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:

First of all from the C&R reg handbook section 478.23 a. through d. details the inspection and the "rights" of "ANY ATF Officer" In a nut shell IF they are not aware of any violation they may inspect during "business hours" also construed as "when you are home" your premises, once during a 12 month period. 478.23 subsection (c) states;(c) may enter during hours of operation the premises, including places of storage, of any licensed collector for the purpose of inspecting or examining the records, documents, firearms, and ammunition referred to in paragraph (a) of this section (1) for ensuring compliance with the recordkeeping requirements of this part not more than once during any 12-month period or (2) when such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation.

At the election of the licensed collector, the annual inspection permitted by this paragraph shall be performed at the ATF office responsible for conducting such inspection in the closest proximity to the collector’s premises. If they Suspect anything, they can inspect any time they want.

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No, they can't. They can inspect your bound book you but you can conduct the inspection at their offices. There are no "hours of operation" for a 03 FFL because it doesn't give you the legal right to engage in the business of selling firearms.

Posted: 4/18/2017 1:29:35 PM EDT

[#6]

Had one since 92, finally let it lapse for good last month.

Posted: 4/18/2017 1:34:03 PM EDT

[#7]

Poll fail.

I used to have one. I let it lapse.

Posted: 4/18/2017 1:35:31 PM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
Please let this rumor die.......

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Quoted:

Quoted:

You also give the ATF the right to come into your house anytime they want to.

Please let this rumor die.......

AFAIK they can show up on your doorstep. You have to be willing to show them your collection, but they don't have the right to see it at any time. They have to make an appointment for when it's convenient to you.

Posted: 4/18/2017 1:38:26 PM EDT

[#9]

had one, years ago.. bought a lot of shit

some have yet to be taken out to the range.

C&R is a great way to suck money out of your wallet

Posted: 4/18/2017 1:38:41 PM EDT

[#10]

I had one for 12 years but some folks got so they were reluctant to give out their info on FTF deals, not that they were shady but they did not want the .gov to know their business. No use trying to explain it to them so I gave my 03 up and tossed my bound book in the wood stove. I don't miss it a bit either.

If I really want a C&R to the point where I'd buy one on-line then springing for the transfer fee is not even be a issue.

LOL...Anyway, it's not like I'm going to buy from the "round boy" at Classic.

Posted: 4/18/2017 1:46:50 PM EDT

[#11]

Another vote for had one, let it lapse.

I had the renewal all filled out, but neat C&R guns were winding down, many retailers were dropping their discounts. The only things I ever logged were CMP rifles. Now, as others have said, you get to pay caviar prices for clapped out shit that's been rusting in the bottom of a Ukrainian salt mine for the last 60 years. Most 01 FFLs won't honor the >50 yrs aspect on older guns either, at least in my experience.

From my memory:
- Bound book could be destroyed the day after your license lapses. If you're renewing, it obviously needs to be contiguous.
- Bound book has to contain any C&R firearms in your collection, even if they were acquired prior to the license or via a typical transfer, so if you destroyed yours and got a new license, you'd have to re-enter everything This was wrong and I am a bad person for posting it

- ATF doesn't get free rights to visit you whenever they want, can be done at their offices at your convenience. The "if they suspect a violation" isn't some grand loophole. If your local police suspect you're dealing drugs, you're going to get a surprise visit too. Don't manufacture machine guns in the garage and you'll be okay.

Posted: 4/18/2017 1:56:05 PM EDT

[#12]

I've got one and my bank account says I am privy to use it often.

Posted: 4/18/2017 1:57:28 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Another vote for had one, let it lapse.

I had the renewal all filled out, but neat C&R guns were winding down, many retailers were dropping their discounts. The only things I ever logged were CMP rifles. Now, as others have said, you get to pay caviar prices for clapped out shit that's been rusting in the bottom of a Ukrainian salt mine for the last 60 years. Most 01 FFLs won't honor the >50 yrs aspect on older guns either, at least in my experience.

From my memory:
- Bound book could be destroyed the day after your license lapses. If you're renewing, it obviously needs to be contiguous.
- Bound book has to contain any C&R firearms in your collection, even if they were acquired prior to the license or via a typical transfer, so if you destroyed yours and got a new license, you'd have to re-enter everything
- ATF doesn't get free rights to visit you whenever they want, can be done at their offices at your convenience. The "if they suspect a violation" isn't some grand loophole. If your local police suspect you're dealing drugs, you're going to get a surprise visit too. Don't manufacture machine guns in the garage and you'll be okay.

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I don't think that's correct. It has to have a record of every transfer of a C&R done while you have the license. So if you owned a Mosin prior to getting the license, but you sell it while you have the license, then you must enter the outbound transfer into your bound book, but you don't have to enter any inbound transfer, you just note in your bound book that you owned it prior to licensure.

Posted: 4/18/2017 2:09:34 PM EDT

[#14]

I got a C&R a few years back and ordered a Polish P-64 Makarov online and had it delivered to my front door, which was pretty cool.

But the primary (importer) C&R market suddenly and quickly dried up. The great deals on surplus German, Austrian ans Swiss bolt-action rifles disappeared.

Now the primary market is overpriced Mosins and some later model Yugo SKS's.

Everything is on the secondary market now with inflated price tags.

There are a few exceptions, but if you ever wanted a Swiss K-31 (I did), you're going to pay top dollar now.

Posted: 4/18/2017 2:20:44 PM EDT

[#15]

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I don't think that's correct. It has to have a record of every transfer of a C&R done while you have the license. So if you owned a Mosin prior to getting the license, but you sell it while you have the license, then you must enter the outbound transfer into your bound book, but you don't have to enter any inbound transfer, you just note in your bound book that you owned it prior to licensure.

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This is my understanding and it makes sense. It would not be reasonable to expect someone to be able to go back and compile a history on every firearm they acquired before they received their license. I doubt the old-timers here can recall which $20 mosin they bought out of the sale barrel at the local hardware store 35 years ago.

Posted: 4/18/2017 2:29:44 PM EDT

[#16]

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You also give the ATF the right to come into your house anytime they want to.

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Bullshit.

Posted: 4/18/2017 2:31:56 PM EDT

[#17]

I did. Then I learned that the C&R can't be used in NJ so I let it expire.

Posted: 4/18/2017 2:37:00 PM EDT

[#18]

Yep, got it when I moved. Had it 5 years now.

My dad has one also I think still. He's had his 10 or so years atleast.

Posted: 4/18/2017 2:43:42 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
AFAIK they can show up on your doorstep. You have to be willing to show them your collection, but they don't have the right to see it at any time. They have to make an appointment for when it's convenient to you.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

You also give the ATF the right to come into your house anytime they want to.

Please let this rumor die.......

AFAIK they can show up on your doorstep. You have to be willing to show them your collection, but they don't have the right to see it at any time. They have to make an appointment for when it's convenient to you.

And more importantly you can tell them no, and set up an appointment at the nearest ATF office instead.

Posted: 4/18/2017 2:47:02 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Another vote for had one, let it lapse.

I had the renewal all filled out, but neat C&R guns were winding down, many retailers were dropping their discounts. The only things I ever logged were CMP rifles. Now, as others have said, you get to pay caviar prices for clapped out shit that's been rusting in the bottom of a Ukrainian salt mine for the last 60 years. Most 01 FFLs won't honor the >50 yrs aspect on older guns either, at least in my experience.

From my memory:
- Bound book could be destroyed the day after your license lapses. If you're renewing, it obviously needs to be contiguous.
- Bound book has to contain any C&R firearms in your collection, even if they were acquired prior to the license or via a typical transfer, so if you destroyed yours and got a new license, you'd have to re-enter everything
- ATF doesn't get free rights to visit you whenever they want, can be done at their offices at your convenience. The "if they suspect a violation" isn't some grand loophole. If your local police suspect you're dealing drugs, you're going to get a surprise visit too. Don't manufacture machine guns in the garage and you'll be okay.

View Quote

Bold parts are incorrect. You do need to enter all C&R guns you acquire whether you use your C&R license or not. You do NOT have to enter guns previously acquired before you get the license.

Posted: 4/18/2017 2:48:01 PM EDT

[#21]

I just got my freshly renewed C&R FFL in the mail yesterday. Turnaround was less than three weeks.

Posted: 4/18/2017 3:01:04 PM EDT

[#22]

I've had one 15 years and never a call or visit from the ATF. I used to use it often but lately not so much. Just nothing out there to buy!

My last renewal took less than two weeks.

Posted: 4/18/2017 3:22:15 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

Bold parts are incorrect. You do need to enter all C&R guns you acquire whether you use your C&R license or not. You do NOT have to enter guns previously acquired before you get the license.

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Guess my memory was wrong. Thanks for the corrections.

Still not planning on getting another.

Posted: 4/18/2017 3:25:30 PM EDT

[#24]

Let mine expire in 2011 or so. Deals have mostly dried up and I have a local guy to do transfers, sooo...only really missing out on the dealer specials, but I've got friends for that ??