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And what exactly is that that supposed to do? The firing pin already protrudes through the bolt face enough to set off the primer. View Quote |
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No. Because what your inquiring about is illegal and technically against coc. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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When you remove the disconnector the hammer rides the firing pin. However during normal operation the caming action of the bolt slows the protrusion of the firing pin down enough that just removing the disconnector alone doesn't allow for enough force to be applied by the hammer. It's a combination of the two modifications that allows enough force to be applied to the primer. View Quote And if it did it certainly wouldn't be reliable or safe. |
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Of course I believe that. But I also believe that you can increase the pressure in your tires by driving nails in them.
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I'm not willing to test the idea but I believe the concept is sound. View Quote Per the ATF definition of machine gun where even a shoelace qualifies? Sure. But then again, if I beat on a semi with a hammer and use rounds with butter soft primers I can also make a machine gun per the ATF, because that is exactly what they did. In practice, filing the firing pin on an AR15 isn't going to make a machine gun unless you made it so the firing pin was stuck forward and the thing was slam firing, which is just as likely to explode as it is to run. |
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Well there is a basis for this "myth". It was also the basis of a one time law that stated a machinegun shot more than 6 times per pull of the trigger......
A early single action revolvers you can "fan the hammer" quickly while holding the trigger down. Folks were known to "file the firing pin" (sharpen essentially) enough to cause it to pierce the primer and the resulting leaking propellant gases will "fan the hammer" automatically. Technically a fully automatic 6 shot revolver.....Has even happened by accident with a chipped firing pin by way of malfunction. |
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Well there is a basis for this "myth". It was also the basis of a one time law that stated a machinegun shot more than 6 times per pull of the trigger...... A early single action revolvers you can "fan the hammer" quickly while holding the trigger down. Folks were known to "file the firing pin" enough to cause it to pierce the primer and the resulting leaking propellant gases will "fan the hammer" automatically. Technically a fully automatic 6 hot revolver.....Has even happened by accident with a chipped firing pin by way of malfunction. View Quote I don't believe a pierced primer will fully cock the hammer of a single action revolver. |
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If those asshats can determine a shoelace is a machine gun then they can determine my empty soda can is a suppressor and your bubba fucked ar will most certainly make their list.
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I don't believe a pierced primer will fully cock the hammer of a single action revolver. View Quote I think it may have been in an article by Skeeter Skelton. I find it hard to believe that this resulted in any kind of legislation, however. |
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I have no experience with "filing" but I am a big proponent of rapidly moving the weapon from left to right or vice versa while simultaneously pressing the trigger to impart an "action" on the projectile to curve it left or right enabling me to shoot around corners . Similar to what Willie Mosconi did with a cue ball ! It all cutting edge shit, technical and all that
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Can you provide a source for this? I don't believe a pierced primer will fully cock the hammer of a single action revolver. View Quote Colt fixed it by adding a smaller firing pin. It was a rare problem but has been documented. Handloader issue #261. |
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I have no personal knowledge of the matter, but I read years ago of just such an occurrence. I think it may have been in an article by Skeeter Skelton. I find it hard to believe that this resulted in any kind of legislation, however. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I don't believe a pierced primer will fully cock the hammer of a single action revolver. I think it may have been in an article by Skeeter Skelton. I find it hard to believe that this resulted in any kind of legislation, however. |
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I guess looking at it that way, with a very thing, very pointy firing pin, and some ATF special ammo with extra soft primers, you might get uncontrollable firing.
It seems to be that it would be easier to blow up your gun with uncontrolled out of battery firing by removing the disconnector though. |
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The question is justification to wonder if you are mature enough to be around anything other cap guns.
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The state of Georgia defines a machine gun as a gun that fires more than six shots per pull of the trigger. When Len at Historic Arms says something I would personally assume he is right. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I don't believe a pierced primer will fully cock the hammer of a single action revolver. I think it may have been in an article by Skeeter Skelton. I find it hard to believe that this resulted in any kind of legislation, however. Hard to believe is not impossible to believe. I find it hard to believe that a shoelace is a machine gun. Doesn't mean that I don't believe that if you thread your shoelace through an M1 in a way that produces more than one shot per trigger pull, you have not manufactured a machine gun. (legally speaking). |
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There were open-bolt M16's produced for APC firing windows. I'd rather try to copy that then make the hammer ride the carrier.
Edit: the M231 for the Bradley |
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The OP is not talking about creating a machine gun, so the answer is NO.
The OP is talking about creating a semi-auto AR that slamfires, and due to the firing pin reach being extended, could have an OOB detonation. The OP is talking about creating a potential Kaboom. |
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how the hell is this a gun forum.
If you truly think filing down the thing that hits the primer, to fire the round will make it fire more,... you sir, are a dumbass. (Or work for the ATF) |
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I would like to see the nay-sayers to explain why it wouldn't work. The opening poster has explained why it would work and nobody has offered any explicit rationale of what is wrong with the theory.
I think there has to be some legal shenanigans at work as in people believing they would be in trouble for discussing the specifics. It should be common knowledge that the AR15 has a floating firing pin (without a counter spring) and that every time you chamber a round, the primer has a small intendation from the inertia of the firing pin alone, as the firing pin makes contact with the primer every time the bolt locks in place. I would expect it to also be at least somewhat common knowledge that if you increase significantly the bolt velocity (or rather bolt carrier velocity), such as in race ARs with lightened action parts, you start to get deeper intendations and may have to switch to heavier, thicker primers to avoid slamfires. It should also be common knowledge that some soft primer factory .223 loads intended for bolt action rifles are unsafe to fire in race type ARs due to the higher bolt velocity. Perhaps less known is that slamfires in rifle action sports are somewhat common, at least compared to duty type rifle events, due to this issue of too soft primers for the action parts of the gun. And this is not an AR15 specific problem, also AKs and other type of rifles are prone to this. For example, military use AKs typically have heavy floating firing pins that will not set off military primers, but will do so to soft civilian reloading component primers, unless a civilian design bolt with a counter spring is installed. And that civ bolt combined with a lightened trigger spring will then give too soft strikes to military primers and you might need two bolts for a race AK depending on if you use reloads or milsurplus ammo for practise. Increasing firing pin protrusion means that the tip will impact the primer at an earlier part of the locking process when the carrier velocity and so the firing pin velocity is higher (the bolt staying in the same axial position despite rotating about it). If the other parameters of the system are close to primer ignition momentum for the chosen primers, then that alone could be sufficient to cause slamfires. However, this would be somewhat random and unpredictable, also uncontrollable. If the rifle doesn't malfunction or something slow down the bolt velocity under the ignition momentum, then it will fire until out of ammo, regardless of trigger or safety position, as the hammer is not in any way involved. It will also start firing from chambering the first round if it's done from full BCG retraction. Adding the removal of the disconnector to the modification allows at least some resemblance of control. The hammer riding the firing pin will increase the mass affecting the firing pin and so will add significantly to its inertia. If the primer sensitivity and other values are close, this is the only modification needed, the firing pin won't have to be filed at all. It's the combination of these two mods that both allow safely chambering rounds and arresting the movement of the hammer by releasing the trigger, which would provide a machine gun function of controllable full auto fire, presumably with reliable ignition of all primers in FA. The problem for that configuration is higher than intended rate of fire eliminating the delay of the hammer striking from under the disconnector, which would be prone to cause all sorts of malfunctions. In other words, while slamfiring FA might be achieved, the resulting gun would not have overall desirable firing qualities and more of a gimmick than a really useful rifle. |
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The bolt begins to cam and lock into the lugs while the carrier is still moving forward. The round is fully seated into the chamber before any firing protrusion occurs. but I can't test it unless someone gives me the money to buy a machine gun, that's the least y'all could do for me bringing new insight into this most ancient of myths. View Quote If you make a different modification then that modification is what will make it a 'machine gun'. |
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The OP is not talking about creating a machine gun, so the answer is NO. The OP is talking about creating a semi-auto AR that slamfires, and due to the firing pin reach being extended, could have an OOB detonation. The OP is talking about creating a potential Kaboom. View Quote the extra .02" of protrusion would likely mean the bolt would be something like 98% locked into the lugs, should be plenty for it to function as a full auto successfully enough for you to visit a nice federal facility. 1. The bolt grabs a round and fully enters the breech 2. Then the carrier begins moving forward and this begins to rotate the bolt into the lugs. 3. As the bolt nears the end of the rotation the firing pin begins to protrude and ignites the primer 4. With no disconnector present, the process continues until the trigger is released and the hammer locks back. The point is there is some truth to the myth that filing the firing pin can by definition create a working machine gun. With a full auto disconnector and safety it can even create a select fire one with a semi auto mode. Since the disconnector would work only in semi mode. |
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Of course! Everybody knows that! Just about any LGS Commando will confirm it!
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I would like to see the nay-sayers to explain why it wouldn't work. The opening poster has explained why it would work and nobody has offered any explicit rationale of what is wrong with the theory. I think there has to be some legal shenanigans at work as in people believing they would be in trouble for discussing the specifics. It should be common knowledge that the AR15 has a floating firing pin (without a counter spring) and that every time you chamber a round, the primer has a small intendation from the inertia of the firing pin alone, as the firing pin makes contact with the primer every time the bolt locks in place. I would expect it to also be at least somewhat common knowledge that if you increase significantly the bolt velocity (or rather bolt carrier velocity), such as in race ARs with lightened action parts, you start to get deeper intendations and may have to switch to heavier, thicker primers to avoid slamfires. It should also be common knowledge that some soft primer factory .223 loads intended for bolt action rifles are unsafe to fire in race type ARs due to the higher bolt velocity. Perhaps less known is that slamfires in rifle action sports are somewhat common, at least compared to duty type rifle events, due to this issue of too soft primers for the action parts of the gun. And this is not an AR15 specific problem, also AKs and other type of rifles are prone to this. For example, military use AKs typically have heavy floating firing pins that will not set off military primers, but will do so to soft civilian reloading component primers, unless a civilian design bolt with a counter spring is installed. And that civ bolt combined with a lightened trigger spring will then give too soft strikes to military primers and you might need two bolts for a race AK depending on if you use reloads or milsurplus ammo for practise. Increasing firing pin protrusion means that the tip will impact the primer at an earlier part of the locking process when the carrier velocity and so the firing pin velocity is higher (the bolt staying in the same axial position despite rotating about it). If the other parameters of the system are close to primer ignition momentum for the chosen primers, then that alone could be sufficient to cause slamfires. However, this would be somewhat random and unpredictable, also uncontrollable. If the rifle doesn't malfunction or something slow down the bolt velocity under the ignition momentum, then it will fire until out of ammo, regardless of trigger or safety position, as the hammer is not in any way involved. It will also start firing from chambering the first round if it's done from full BCG retraction. Adding the removal of the disconnector to the modification allows at least some resemblance of control. The hammer riding the firing pin will increase the mass affecting the firing pin and so will add significantly to its inertia. If the primer sensitivity and other values are close, this is the only modification needed, the firing pin won't have to be filed at all. It's the combination of these two mods that both allow safely chambering rounds and arresting the movement of the hammer by releasing the trigger, which would provide a machine gun function of controllable full auto fire, presumably with reliable ignition of all primers in FA. The problem for that configuration is higher than intended rate of fire eliminating the delay of the hammer striking from under the disconnector, which would be prone to cause all sorts of malfunctions. In other words, while slamfiring FA might be achieved, the resulting gun would not have overall desirable firing qualities and more of a gimmick than a really useful rifle. View Quote |
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Why go through all that trouble when you can just use a shoelace?
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filing the tip of the firing pin goes back to when most police and criminals used DA revolvers
some guys who were tacticool would put a very light spring in the gun to make the DA trigger pull lighter then they would make the tip of the firing pin smaller to make it dent the primer deeper it's mostly just bullshit that comes from pulp fiction magazines A slam-firing gun with a 50,000 psi cartridge is extremely unsafe. Like as in "gun exploding and firing a chunk of metal into your head" unsafe. If you want full auto, save up $6000 and buy a legal MAC 10. It's a great little gun. |
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filing the tip of the firing pin goes back to when most police and criminals used DA revolvers some guys who were tacticool would put a very light spring in the gun to make the DA trigger pull lighter then they would make the tip of the firing pin smaller to make it dent the primer deeper it's mostly just bullshit that comes from pulp fiction magazines A slam-firing gun with a 50,000 psi cartridge is extremely unsafe. Like as in "gun exploding and firing a chunk of metal into your head" unsafe. If you want full auto, save up $6000 and buy a legal MAC 10. It's a great little gun. View Quote |
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I'm not willing to test the idea but I believe the concept is sound. View Quote I have seen multiple sks rifles go full auto with stuck firing pins. |
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