Quoted: When I was a new guy, my goal was one arrest a shift. Felony, Misdemanor, or warrant, it didnt matter. that was too easy a standard. Stop 10 cars, two of the drivers will have a warrant, at least. So I quit counting warrant arrests and decided street charges only. Well working midnights, it's awful damn easy to find a DUI every night, so I quit counting misdemeanors. welcome to Am3rika, comrade...where EVERYONE is a criminal.

Why the hell do you say that Mr. Bob?
Everyone is not a crimminal anymore than eveyrone is male or Republican or rich.
But there are plenty of crimminals out there and they make it easy to find them by breaking traffic laws. (Imagine that) They do stupid things that draw attention to themselves and cops cite and or arrest them for it.  It is really pretty simple to understand.

You would not believe how many.  There are so many that many don't get filed, the girl is 14 or 15 the guy is 19 or 20.  The parents of the girl agree to let them get married and no charges are filed.
Happens a lot!

Quoted: Quoted: When I was a new guy, my goal was one arrest a shift. Felony, Misdemanor, or warrant, it didnt matter. that was too easy a standard. Stop 10 cars, two of the drivers will have a warrant, at least. So I quit counting warrant arrests and decided street charges only.  Well working midnights, it's awful damn easy to find a DUI every night, so I quit counting misdemeanors. My goal is one felony arrest a shift.  Typically Possession of stolen property, auto theft, burglary, or narcotics sales, with an occasional domestic violence thrown in.  It's not a quota, its a minimum performace standard I place on myself. Good to see an officer challenge themselves; just how big is your patrol area/ population base  that you are that busy with that level of offense?

My assigned area is about 6 miles long, and two miles wide.  9 banks with easy freeway acess. 12+ half-way houses. Full time population of 22K, that swells to 300K on the weekends and summer.  I cant throw a rock without hitting 6 parolees. We have a full time homeless population of about 40-50 bums. They are crazier than twelve monkeys and always good for a 245 knife or 211 person stat. It is a target rich enviroment.

Quoted: Checkpoints do stop people at random. There is no PC when you set up a roadblock and everyone has to pass muster. Maybe in your neck of the woods, several out of every 10 people stopped for a traffic violation have warrants. Depends on the neighborhood, I hope your "simpleton" remark wasn't directed towards me. We were having a respectful discussion. We can disagree with each other without name-calling.

Checkpoints, weren't mentioned.

The only checkpoints I have ever been involved with were part of Uncle Sam's "team cammo".

You were disrepectful by insinuating that members of this board, would stop other citizens for no reason.

I know day shifters that stop dozens of people per day, they get very few warrants, DUI's, suspended or reovked drivers. At night you generally can't make more than a few stops without running into more than simple traffic violations.

Quoted: Quoted: Checkpoints do stop people at random. There is no PC when you set up a roadblock and everyone has to pass muster. Maybe in your neck of the woods, several out of every 10 people stopped for a traffic violation have warrants. Depends on the neighborhood, I hope your "simpleton" remark wasn't directed towards me. We were having a respectful discussion. We can disagree with each other without name-calling. Checkpoints, weren't mentioned.

Sure they were, I brought them up. An arrest at a checkpoint doesn't count towards an officer's total?

The only checkpoints I have ever been involved with were part of Uncle Sam's "team cammo". You were disrepectful by insinuating that members of this board, would stop other citizens for no reason.

Please show me where. I just re-read the entire thread. Are you referring to this statement? I have no problem if a motorist is pulled over for a legitimate traffic violation (the key here is legitimate, I know there are catch-alls that can be used an an excuse to pull anyone over), then if there is a warrant, great, toss him/her in the pokey. Is that accusing you or anyone else doing so? Don't think so.

As for "respect"... Team jumping to conclusions, has ASS-U-me-d that 10 people are getting randomly stopped for NO reason. You have to put a disclaimer in for the simpletons.

I know day shifters that stop dozens of people per day, they get very few warrants, DUI's, suspended or reovked drivers. At night you generally can't make more than a few stops without running into more than simple traffic violations.

Probably true.

I'm not out at night or driving around with a snootfull or arrest warrants, so all I run into are the little one-horse towns where the speed drops from 55 to 40 to 25 in the length of a football field and the 40 sign was hidden behind aunt Hilda's rose bush (it's why I use a radar detector, not because I am driving 90 on the Interstate, but because I don't like to get a surprise in West Cash Register, Ohio) And the speed trap towns do have to generate a certain amount of revenue from traffic violations to support their operation. So "quotas" inherently, must be met, or the town goes out of business (see the article on Killbuck in PA posted earlier)

As for the "any excuse to pull someone over" I recall getting pulled over by a local officer for not signalling to make a right hand turn (when there was no traffic behind me, or on the road I was turning on to). He played the tough guy, too "I saw you do that!" he barked. "Do what?" I replied... "You turned right without signalling!" I was speechless. He ran everything he could, kept me there a good 15 minutes, then said he was doing me a favor for not writing a reckless driving ticket (I was in a Cavalier, doing all of 15 MPH through the turn, I kid you not, posted speed on the road is 35, there is no stop sign on the road from which I was turning) and he was purple in the face (maybe for not finding any warrants on me? who knows? I wasn't a smartass either, had all my docs in order, everything was yes sir, no sir... go figure. The car, btw, was in immaculate shape, no worn tires, no inflammatory bumper stickers. Middle of the afternoon, sunny day... If that wasn't a fishing expedition, nothing is.

So it does happen, but that doesn't mean all officers do it. A good friend's dad is retired chief of police (another township) and he is as honest & trustworthy as they come. All kinds. Just like the rest of us.

Quoted: I'm not out at night or driving around with a snootfull or arrest warrants, so all I run into are the little one-horse towns where the speed drops from 55 to 40 to 25 in the length of a football field and the 40 sign was hidden behind aunt Hilda's rose bush (it's why I use a radar detector, not because I am driving 90 on the Interstate, but because I don't like to get a surprise in West Cash Register, Ohio) And the speed trap towns do have to generate a certain amount of revenue from traffic violations to support their operation. So "quotas" inherently, must be met, or the town goes out of business (see the article on Killbuck in PA posted earlier) As for the "any excuse to pull someone over" I recall getting pulled over by a local officer for not signalling to make a right hand turn (when there was no traffic behind me, or on the road I was turning on to). He played the tough guy, too "I saw you do that!" he barked. "Do what?" I replied... "You turned right without signalling!" I was speechless. He ran everything he could, kept me there a good 15 minutes, then said he was doing me a favor for not writing a reckless driving ticket (I was in a Cavalier, doing all of 15 MPH through the turn, I kid you not, posted speed on the road is 35, there is no stop sign on the road from which I was turning) and he was purple in the face (maybe for not finding any warrants on me? who knows? I wasn't a smartass either, had all my docs in order, everything was yes sir, no sir... go figure. The car, btw, was in immaculate shape, no worn tires, no inflammatory bumper stickers. Middle of the afternoon, sunny day... If that wasn't a fishing expedition, nothing is. So it does happen, but that doesn't mean all officers do it. A good friend's dad is retired chief of police (another township) and he is as honest & trustworthy as they come. All kinds. Just like the rest of us.

Yes, if you are saying that there are a few places that rigorous enforce traffic law, especially on the "through highway" in their area, I would have a hard time arguing against that.

But I also know that some of my co-workers are MIA as soon as they are out of sight.

Last night one of them is doing a report, in an area that is primary jurisdiction of another department. His parked car is almost hit by a drunk driver. He calls for the other department to come and do a little investigating............................they decide the best action will be to call a cab. That department is notorious for doing stuff like that. They enforce all traffic law the same way. One of my co-workers sister's works there 10+ years as a patrol officer, 0 DUI's.

Last week, when I was busy eleswhere, a drunk driver gets called in and is being followed through 4 jusridictions, for 15 minutes. Wasn't intercepted........................... 2 hours later guess who has to go investigate the roll over crash the possible drunk driver was in.

I've said this before, and it's not a brag, I write the most citations on my shift. 1.66 per 8 hour shift. Seems kinda slim if you ask me, and I work for an agency that has more traffic responsibilities than most agencies except Highway Patrol outfits.

We get more complaints from citizens about driving than anything else. Everyone wants to have safe driving happening where they live.

I had ongoing complaints of stop sign runners in a rural subdivsion. When I was able to "crack down", I was catching people going 50-60 mph through the stops signs w/o even slowing. About 50% of them were ASTOUNDED I had the gall to stop them.  The road they were on was a 35 mph road, that parralells a state highway. It's a tiny bit shorter than that road. So people would use it, and drive like they were on the highway.  

Also it seems to me there are a few types of officers.

1) officers that stop for valid traffic violations, and can clearly explain themselves.
2) officers that stop for valid traffic violations, and are as clear as mud, at night, with the explanations.
3) Those that aren't sure what they're doing..........................

Sometimes #2 runs into people and the poor explanation eclispes everything else goin on.

People who blow stop signs drive me nuts. I'm all for throwing the book at any of 'em. (not talking about the slow down to a crawl, then idle through, but the "stop signs are for other people!" idiots who sail right through. Had some yahoo in Illinois pull that on me last year, driving along about 20 miles W of Chicago (still some open fields left) and out of nowhere some guy on a side road sails right across in front of me (maybe 40-50 feet, but at 60 miles an hour, wouldn't have had the reaction time or space to do anything had he been 1/2 second later) never slowed for the stop.

Maybe it's old school, but I stop for a stop sign even when there's nobody around, habit I guess. I check the air in my tires too. Don't see too many people doing that anymore either. *feeling old*

Other thing is I'd imagine that people tend to remember the bad experiences more than the good, especially with tickets. Most cops are great, but boy a few can really mess it up for the rest. Same for regular motorists maybe.

Quoted: ...there are plenty of crimminals out there and they make it easy to find them by breaking traffic laws. (Imagine that) They do stupid things that draw attention to themselves and cops cite and or arrest them for it.  It is really pretty simple to understand.

Yep.  Sometimes they practically jump into the car themselves. Last night on the way to my assigned area, not even there yet, I was following a POS F250. The year tab on the license plate didnt look right. it looked too thick, and wrinkled. so I ran the plate.  Turns out the registration had expired well over a year ago, and it had stolen month and year tabs on the plate. (some might consider registration fraud and possession of stolen property "fishing").  When I stopped the truck the driver gave me her passport, claiming to have recently misplaced her wallet. Looked into that (more "fishing") and found out her license was suspended for DUI in 2002.  While talking to her i noticed her pupils were constricted, and non reactive to light. So I did some more "fishing" and found out she was a heroin addict who was loaded on Vicodin and Valium.  Asked her for persmission to search her truck and she let me. I found some tar heroin in her purse. So that "fishing" expedition turned up registration fraud, possession of stolen property, DUI/Drugs, driving on a suspended license, and possession of Heroin.  I cut her a break on the child endangerment charges for driving under the influence of opiates and benzodiazepeins with her 10 year old child in the truck.

Of course the story she will tell her friends is the cops pulled her over and arrested her because the year tab was on crooked.

Yes. IMO

Quoted: When I was a new guy, my goal was one arrest a shift. Felony, Misdemanor, or warrant, it didnt matter. that was too easy a standard. Stop 10 cars, two of the drivers will have a warrant, at least. So I quit counting warrant arrests and decided street charges only. Well working midnights, it's awful damn easy to find a DUI every night, so I quit counting misdemeanors. welcome to Am3rika, comrade...where EVERYONE is a criminal.

+1




Roy

Quoted: Quoted: welcome to Am3rika, comrade...where EVERYONE is a criminal. NO, the ones they have not pulled over are not criminals yet, you don't become a criminal until they decide to stop you, then you may be a misdemeanor or a felony depending on how late in the shift it is, and if whether or not they have met thier "self imposed standards" yet. Edited to add: this is sarcasm, I believe that for the most part traffic cops have a tough job, and probably ignore dozens of minor violations for ever one that they pull over. It is the attidude of some that i find suspect, and even then I realize that they are only doing what they feel is in the best interest of the community that they serve.

I concur. I have been stopped numerous times and could have technically been given a ticket. But the officer figured out I was one of the good guys (I am always respectful because I know they have tough jobs and because as a Christian I am to show due respect to authority) and let me go in every instance. Even when I passed a marked Va State Police vehicle on I-81. Though the trooper was pretty TOed at me for passing him, but I only passed him going a fraction of a MPH faster than he was....

Quoted: Quoted: Cops don't have quotas. But they DO have to look like they are enforcing the law. Whether LE admits to it or not, a lot of departments have an "expected" number of tickets they are supposed to write. I get this from several officers I know. To advance, you must prove you are enforcing the law. This means giving tickets to a lot of guys.... Bullshit, I don't believe that for a second.

You can not believe it, but I have it straight from the mouth of more than one police officer, including a former Va. State Trooper. There was a certain average of tickets expected by the Lt's, and if you didn't hit around that number the Lt wanted to know why.

Hate to burst your bubble....

Quoted: Quoted: ...there are plenty of crimminals out there and they make it easy to find them by breaking traffic laws. (Imagine that) They do stupid things that draw attention to themselves and cops cite and or arrest them for it.  It is really pretty simple to understand. Yep.  Sometimes they practically jump into the car themselves. Last night on the way to my assigned area, not even there yet, I was following a POS F250. The year tab on the license plate didnt look right. it looked too thick, and wrinkled. so I ran the plate.  Turns out the registration had expired well over a year ago, and it had stolen month and year tabs on the plate. (some might consider registration fraud and possession of stolen property "fishing").  When I stopped the truck the driver gave me her passport, claiming to have recently misplaced her wallet. Looked into that (more "fishing") and found out her license was suspended for DUI in 2002.  While talking to her i noticed her pupils were constricted, and non reactive to light. So I did some more "fishing" and found out she was a heroin addict who was loaded on Vicodin and Valium.  Asked her for persmission to search her truck and she let me. I found some tar heroin in her purse. So that "fishing" expedition turned up registration fraud, possession of stolen property, DUI/Drugs, driving on a suspended license, and possession of Heroin.  I cut her a break on the child endangerment charges for driving under the influence of opiates and benzodiazepeins with her 10 year old child in the truck. Of course the story she will tell her friends is the cops pulled her over and arrested her because the year tab was on crooked.

POS 250, sounds like profiling to me. But hey this is so.cal. and cops don't profile here!! I better check my year tag as after laying one over the other for 10 years it may not be on straight. BTW years ago i was pulled over for expired tags on a company truck i was driving. Figured my boss was just lagging, so no big deal till i got back to shop and realized CHP had misread JUN(JUNE) for JAN(january). This was in March and yes the tag was very legible. When I realized CHP had made a mistake I called them and was told I had to prove he made a mistake even though when he ran the tag it should have come back as good registration.




Roy

Bottom line folks, is that if you break traffic laws, the police DO have the legal right to issue a ticket. If you don't like this, you CAN vote in different people who will change the laws. I find a lot of people who complain about getting tickets will then turn right around and demand that the police ticket people speeding through their neighborhood. But when speeding through someone else's neighborhood, they should be immune....

It is true that a significant number of other charges are often found by people who violate traffic laws. Guy runs a stop sign, the officer comes up and smells MJ. Boom, felony drug bust. Guy runs a red light, officer stops him and finds no license or ID because the guy has a warrant. A huge number of arrests happen just this way.

This is why I find that most cops have not had a desire to ticket me when they pulled me over. But then again I am not doing 90 in a 25 or speeding in construction zones either....

Traffic laws are enforceable just like the laws against murder. To be honest, I wish to high heaven that more people around here would be ticketed for running red lights, as I have nearly been smashed by several doing just this.

Tickets used to keep order in traffic are a good thing. I do NOT, however, approve of jurisdictions using ticketing as a means to create revenue. That is a whole seperate discussion...

Quoted: Quoted: ...there are plenty of crimminals out there and they make it easy to find them by breaking traffic laws. (Imagine that) They do stupid things that draw attention to themselves and cops cite and or arrest them for it.  It is really pretty simple to understand. Yep.  Sometimes they practically jump into the car themselves. Last night on the way to my assigned area, not even there yet, I was following a POS F250. The year tab on the license plate didnt look right. it looked too thick, and wrinkled. so I ran the plate.  Turns out the registration had expired well over a year ago, and it had stolen month and year tabs on the plate. (some might consider registration fraud and possession of stolen property "fishing").  When I stopped the truck the driver gave me her passport, claiming to have recently misplaced her wallet. Looked into that (more "fishing") and found out her license was suspended for DUI in 2002.  While talking to her i noticed her pupils were constricted, and non reactive to light. So I did some more "fishing" and found out she was a heroin addict who was loaded on Vicodin and Valium.  Asked her for persmission to search her truck and she let me. I found some tar heroin in her purse. So that "fishing" expedition turned up registration fraud, possession of stolen property, DUI/Drugs, driving on a suspended license, and possession of Heroin.  I cut her a break on the child endangerment charges for driving under the influence of opiates and benzodiazepeins with her 10 year old child in the truck. Of course the story she will tell her friends is the cops pulled her over and arrested her because the year tab was on crooked.

And there is NOTHING wrong with this. Fan had a legitimate reason to pull the person over, and conducted a proper investigation which turned up evidence of more criminal activity, whereupon he effected an arrest.

This is how a lot of traffic stops go...

In one of my classes in college we had the opportunity to speak with the Mayor of a medium-sized midwestern city. Eventually one of the students asked point-blank if the officers had a quota.  The Mayor's point-blank said "No, that's just a myth.".

20 minutes and a few questions later he mentioned a "performance standard" and needless to say the class jumped all over this and he admitted that the number of traffic tickets written was a component of the "Standard" needed to be met by officers in that city.

I haven't written a traffic citation in almost 6 years sir, but in your case I'm going to make an exception.

YES



Productivity goal, activity standards, minimum standards, call it what they may, it's a quota.

Maybe not all dept.'s, but there are quotas.

Cops don't have quotas, but are reviewed on their performance.  Cop no write tickets, cop no catch bad-guys, cop no get promotion.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ...there are plenty of crimminals out there and they make it easy to find them by breaking traffic laws. (Imagine that) They do stupid things that draw attention to themselves and cops cite and or arrest them for it.  It is really pretty simple to understand. Yep.  Sometimes they practically jump into the car themselves. Last night on the way to my assigned area, not even there yet, I was following a POS F250. The year tab on the license plate didnt look right. it looked too thick, and wrinkled. so I ran the plate.  Turns out the registration had expired well over a year ago, and it had stolen month and year tabs on the plate. (some might consider registration fraud and possession of stolen property "fishing").  When I stopped the truck the driver gave me her passport, claiming to have recently misplaced her wallet. Looked into that (more "fishing") and found out her license was suspended for DUI in 2002.  While talking to her i noticed her pupils were constricted, and non reactive to light. So I did some more "fishing" and found out she was a heroin addict who was loaded on Vicodin and Valium.  Asked her for persmission to search her truck and she let me. I found some tar heroin in her purse. So that "fishing" expedition turned up registration fraud, possession of stolen property, DUI/Drugs, driving on a suspended license, and possession of Heroin.  I cut her a break on the child endangerment charges for driving under the influence of opiates and benzodiazepeins with her 10 year old child in the truck. Of course the story she will tell her friends is the cops pulled her over and arrested her because the year tab was on crooked. POS 250, sounds like profiling to me.

Yep. I'm a profiling motherfucker. I can spot a crook a block away. I have testified in court on many occasions that I profile criminals, I just dont include race in my profiling.

Not around my neck of the woods,but the end of the month you see so many cruisers out it isn't funny. I jokingly say they are out for revenue enhancement time.

Quoted: Quoted: When I was a new guy, my goal was one arrest a shift. Felony, Misdemanor, or warrant, it didnt matter. that was too easy a standard. Stop 10 cars, two of the drivers will have a warrant, at least. So I quit counting warrant arrests and decided street charges only. Well working midnights, it's awful damn easy to find a DUI every night, so I quit counting misdemeanors. welcome to Am3rika, comrade...where EVERYONE is a criminal. +1 Roy

Of course some LEO's think that way (as do some non-LEO's) but the vast majority are just doing their jobs. As long as an officer isn't pushing their PC too far to make stops, AR15fan-- the original "new guy" post above--sounds like the kind of guy I want patrolling my street at night when I can't be there to watch things myself.

Do you want your local force to sit around for their entire shifts and ignore people who do whatever they want, in plain view? I'd guess you don't. In some sectors AR15fan's record is very reasonable. In others it would be impossible. Depends on where you are....

Not calling you guys cop-bashers, but surely you don't think that way for real.

no quotas where I work.

jbts can write as many tickets as they want.

it's all about revenue.

It's amazing how it goes from "public safety" to " "revenue".That  'SPlains the fishing expeditions in VA pretty well.

Chris

Quoted: I know for a fact that a small town near me has "requirements" of 2 tickets PER DAY. (Yes, it's a speedtrap). My sister worked for that department as a dispatcher, and overheard the mayor and chief tell the two deputies that if there weren't 2 tickets per day, there would be a vacancy in the department because the village couldn't operate it's force without the ticket revenue. What do you call that? Quota. Illegal, and a quota. Do all departments have them? I suspect to some degree even if it's implied, but a traffic cop that doesn't write tickets will not be a cop for long.

Quoted: Cops don't have quotas, but are reviewed on their performance.  Cop no write tickets, cop no catch bad-guys, cop no get promotion.

Our promotions are by written exam.