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Posted: 6/18/2009 12:36:48 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Never happen. The states –– Texas included –– all depend on Federal $$$ to run their governments. They're not going to voluntarily give that up. We just cut taxes and have a $9 billion surplus for the year. And half the country depends on our natural resources and industry, especially our high-end electronics. Fuck the feds. Oklahoma, Louisiana, and New Mexico are welcome to join the Republic of Texas. Big deal. Utah runs a budget surplus almost every year but that is due to the fact that state agencies get alot of federal grant money. Take it away and you have a deficit. It's the same with Texas; I imagine they get billions of dollars alone in federal highway money. Oh, and after you make up your Republic of Texas be prepared to have the rest of the US start to tax your exports. If you hated NAFTA and wanted to see it gone you'll get your wish, but you might not like it much. Whereas I do not believe a break up is truly possible nor do I believe it is a good idea, I must say your imagination has no place in this discussion if your goal is to argue a fact-based scenario. Semantics... He's not 'immagining' anything, it's the truth.... With the possible exception of Alaska, every single state in the Union would be insolvent without the funds they receive from the Feds.... |
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Posted: 6/18/2009 12:38:20 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: What is the percentage required for a successful revolution? Moa may have been a commie, but he was truly a genius when it came to insurgency and revolution. The answer is 10%, by the way. 17% is likely incorrect. This article regarding Texas secession puts those "who think [Texas] would do better if it were independent" was 35%. That is not the same thing as wishing for secession, but it is a very telling number closely associated with secession. 10% can have a successful revolution, if they are willing to form a dictatorship when they are done... There is no way that a 10%-supported revolution can result in a representative government in the end, none at all... |
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Posted: 6/18/2009 12:39:29 AM EDT
[#3]
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Here's the problem with the above scenario... Everything the states have, they have because of being part of the whole... Splitting up the union would also wreck the economy in monetary terms (who is going to accept 'New England' dollars, for example?), and place much larger financial burdens on the states... Each new 'mini-nation' would need it's own military, with it's own chain of command... Due to duplication and potential rivalries, this would be much, much more expensive... US foreign hegemony would be completely broken, China, India or Russia would become the next 'Supreme Power'.... Further degrading the economy, disrupting trade, and making everything more expenisve..... In short, life as we know it on this continent would pretty much collapse... Your taxes would go up... And all for what? Absolutely nothing. They'd have their freedumb. Somehow, I don't think the new 'micro-nations' would have much incentive to give it to them.... The Constitution would be gone, after all... Dave, you know better than this. It was the Framers who believed in states' rights that forced the individual liberty protections to be added to the Constitution. As I've stated in other threads, there has never been anything in the history of man comparable to the United States. No one can ever know what would happen here if the Union were to divide. Anyone who states any sort of outcome as a foregone conclusion (either for good or for evil) is only making himself, from any sort of intellectual perspective, appear unintelligent. |
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Posted: 6/18/2009 12:40:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
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What is the percentage required for a successful revolution? Moa may have been a commie, but he was truly a genius when it came to insurgency and revolution. The answer is 10%, by the way. 17% is likely incorrect. This article regarding Texas secession puts those "who think [Texas] would do better if it were independent" was 35%. That is not the same thing as wishing for secession, but it is a very telling number closely associated with secession. 10% can have a successful revolution, if they are willing to form a dictatorship when they are done... There is no way that a 10%-supported revolution can result in a representative government in the end, none at all... What percentage of American-English supported the Revolutionary War? What was the participatory percentage? |
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Posted: 6/18/2009 12:49:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the percentage required for a successful revolution? Moa may have been a commie, but he was truly a genius when it came to insurgency and revolution. The answer is 10%, by the way. 17% is likely incorrect. This article regarding Texas secession puts those "who think [Texas] would do better if it were independent" was 35%. That is not the same thing as wishing for secession, but it is a very telling number closely associated with secession. 10% can have a successful revolution, if they are willing to form a dictatorship when they are done... There is no way that a 10%-supported revolution can result in a representative government in the end, none at all... What percentage of American-English supported the Revolutionary War? What was the participatory percentage? Based on what measure? There is no scientific polling data, but based on the fact that every single colony's representatives ratified the Declaration of Independence, it was a hell of a lot higher than 10%. Further, the 'participatory percentage' is not the determining factor in the government that takes hold afterwards, it's the support/oppose split... If you have less than a majority of the electorate in favor of your revolution, then you HAVE TO institute a police state after the revoluion, because if you let the people chose, they will overthrow your revolutionary government at the ballot box.... |
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Posted: 6/18/2009 12:50:18 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here's the problem with the above scenario... Everything the states have, they have because of being part of the whole... Splitting up the union would also wreck the economy in monetary terms (who is going to accept 'New England' dollars, for example?), and place much larger financial burdens on the states... Each new 'mini-nation' would need it's own military, with it's own chain of command... Due to duplication and potential rivalries, this would be much, much more expensive... US foreign hegemony would be completely broken, China, India or Russia would become the next 'Supreme Power'.... Further degrading the economy, disrupting trade, and making everything more expenisve..... In short, life as we know it on this continent would pretty much collapse... Your taxes would go up... And all for what? Absolutely nothing. They'd have their freedumb. Somehow, I don't think the new 'micro-nations' would have much incentive to give it to them.... The Constitution would be gone, after all... Dave, you know better than this. It was the Framers who believed in states' rights that forced the individual liberty protections to be added to the Constitution. As I've stated in other threads, there has never been anything in the history of man comparable to the United States. No one can ever know what would happen here if the Union were to divide. Anyone who states any sort of outcome as a foregone conclusion (either for good or for evil) is only making himself, from any sort of intellectual perspective, appear unintelligent. Hence, the 'I don't think'... The last statement, however IS a foregone conclusion... Breaking up the Union would require nullification of the Constitution (either by con-con, or by open revolt).... |
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Posted: 6/18/2009 12:54:32 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Here's the problem with the above scenario... Everything the states have, they have because of being part of the whole... Splitting up the union would also wreck the economy in monetary terms (who is going to accept 'New England' dollars, for example?), and place much larger financial burdens on the states... Each new 'mini-nation' would need it's own military, with it's own chain of command... Due to duplication and potential rivalries, this would be much, much more expensive... US foreign hegemony would be completely broken, China, India or Russia would become the next 'Supreme Power'.... Further degrading the economy, disrupting trade, and making everything more expenisve..... In short, life as we know it on this continent would pretty much collapse... Your taxes would go up... And all for what? Absolutely nothing. They'd have their freedumb. Somehow, I don't think the new 'micro-nations' would have much incentive to give it to them.... The Constitution would be gone, after all... Dave, you know better than this. It was the Framers who believed in states' rights that forced the individual liberty protections to be added to the Constitution. As I've stated in other threads, there has never been anything in the history of man comparable to the United States. No one can ever know what would happen here if the Union were to divide. Anyone who states any sort of outcome as a foregone conclusion (either for good or for evil) is only making himself, from any sort of intellectual perspective, appear unintelligent. Hence, the 'I don't think'... The last statement, however IS a foregone conclusion... Breaking up the Union would require nullification of the Constitution (either by con-con, or by open revolt).... It would only require nullification by those states who choose (either through revolution or Constitutional amendment) to not be bound by it. |
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