This story has little to do with the death sentence and more to do with how messed up the legal system is.  Anytime anyone is wrongfully convicted and then set free years later makes me sick to my gut.  I could care less about capital punishment.  Lets just convict the right people.  That could be you or me.

Sure it's bad that innocent men have been put to death.  It is also terrible that guilty men have gone free.

I don't see that the ACLU is doing anything to make this situation any better.  

They are just creating jobs for themselves, and are fulfilling their long-term goals of promoting obcenity and removing Christianity from society.

You know, while I don't understand the moral outrage against capital punishment, period, I am really appalled by the frequency which innocent people are exonerated once on death row.  It happens all the time.  God only knows how many innocent people were executed.

I also have to say how appalled I am by the glibness people here show in the face of this truth.  "They probably were immoral in other parts of their lives anyway".  WHAT?  So they deserve the death penalty?  Or that you need to spill a little innocent milk in order to save the apple pie of justice?

Spock was either a communist or a fascist.  Take your pick.  The state has no legitimate right to end the lives of its citizens, even the worst ones.

LOL...now come on Eric, you know the Lord doesn't make mistakes[;)]  But I got the point.

Sgtar15

If you can't take the heat....

LOL, well I guess Kentstate4 couldn't take the heat..LOL

Sgtar15

Kill them all and let God sort them out.  Now then lets look at this closly.  We have how many people on Death Row?  Then we have 100 people out of all those that have been proven innocent.  The statisics on this are huge.  Most people on Death Row belong there.  So this troll can go back under his bridge.

R4M[sniper]

Nah..he'll be back. Probably fell asleap reading the Communist Manifesto.

A Godless society is doomed, and THAT is where the ACLU wants us to be.

How about if your son were the one to fry innocent? I used to be pro-death penalty, and while I agree that some folks need killing, I can't in good conscience support it as aflawed policy.

Killing innocent people is murder. I say hold off the executions till we can fix the system.

I fear that some at the ACLU would find your practices to be "thoughtcrime".

What Sgtar said.  The ALCU has done more damage to this country than you can shake a stick at.

If someone says they support the ALCU and they own guns and believe they stick up for our rights, I come immediately to one of two conclusions:

- They are a liar
- They are delusional.

If that's a personal attack, take a hint and leave us alone!

Merlin

First Lesson - Don't post while drinking.
Second Lesson - Live by the sword die by the sword.

Now with that in mind: TINKER

Did I not say "LEARN HOW TO FUCKING SPELL?" Nowhere did I say "LEARN HOW TO FUCKING USE GRAMMER?" (Though this would be implied.) And, did I not spell "your" correctly? (That's a rhetorical question, but because you are obviously semi-educated, you'd know that.)

Lest we get into a "My dad can beat up your dad" argument. I'll gladly bring my education to the table and call you on "yours." Alas, we all know this is the internet and we can lie about anything we want.

"Your" Mama.

I just wonder what suggestions you might have on how to "fix the system".  No legal proceding is 100% foolproof.  That's why the jury is instructed to base their decision on reasonable doubt, not 100% doubt of proof or guilt.  We the gun owners bitch all the time about the laws that are currently on the books concerning gun ownership not being strictly enforced, causing legislators to try to enact new laws.  It goes the same for the punishment phase of the process.  There is no foolproof method unless you catch the criminal with the smoking gun in hand, and also have it all on videotape.

What is wrong with the Pledge of Allegiance??

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

What could the ACLU possibly have against that?

Well, I'd suggest getting rid of the death penalty for starters. It's the one punishment that can't be taken back. You can compensate someone who is locked up for 15 years unjustly... you can't give them back their lost years, but you can damn sure compensate them. If you kill someone, that's it.

Like I said, some people deserve a good killing. I'm ok with that. But since we can't be 100% sure, I do not personally believe that vengeance is worth the price in the case of government executions. The cost outweighs the benefit to me. Lock them up forever, no parole; they may as well be dead, have time to get right with the Lord, and actually wind up costing less than the usual Death Row inmate does.

At least he used the correct word, doofus.  Oh, and its spelled grammar, dumba$$. Apparently in your search for education, you even flunked copying, since I had spelled it for you.

And your capitalization comment is a rule of GRAMMAR, not a spelling error, so you DID complain about his grammar, but were too ignorant to notice your own incompetence.

And you probably meant to say you THOUGHT, but you didn't "THOUGH". You STILL can't get the correct word, can you?

Even if I flunked out of 3rd grade, I learned a lot more than you, you smegma-breathed twit.

In your case it's live by the sword, die by cutting your own throat. Cretin.

I don't know what the cost comparison might be but I do know our prisons are overcrowded, the guard to prisoner ratio is way out of proportion, criminals are being let loose early because of both of these situations and we are spending way too much on these prisoners that have been sentenced to life w/o the possibility of parole.  I don't know what the average cost to house an inmate for a year is but it's got to really add up when someone commits a crime in their 20's-30's and then lives to be 80-90.

You forgot the "One nation, under God..." part.  Or did the ACLU get to you too?

The ACLU didn't need to get me, it was not written with "under god" anywhere in it. That was added in 1954 during the McCarthy era. And it was added with the open intent of liking Christianity with Patriotism.[url]http://www.american-partisan.com/resources/pledge/[/url]

36 USC172 IS a violation of the seperation of church and state. But since it is "only" the pledge most normal people dont care to make a issue of it.

This is all against the intent of the writer who deliberately left out such language. His concern was to find a way to to close the rift between northern and southern Americans in the wake of the Civil War (hence "one nation indivisable") and to give a common, unifying element for both native and immigrant children ("to MY flag, and to the Republic for which it stands"). "Under God" is a unnessacery, divisive element that undoes the intent of the original pledge.  That this version has lasted as long as it has is largely to the credit of the [i]Gobidis[/i] decision by the SCOTUS in 1943 that prohibits anyone from being forced to say it.

I can take the heat,butI stopped arguing with thee religious people here.So that it wouldn't be clouding the topic at hand!!

How can you justify your rights to own a weapon,superseeds the rights of others to get a fair trial,I would be safe in betting the members here that bash "ACLU" for defending others rights(no matter how wrong the bible says they are!!! For arguement sake)would be the 1st to call an ACLU lawyer if there rights were violated.



Care to explain "your rights end,where mine begin" to make this simple I have the right to own firearms and others too and the "liberals" (as some members here call them ) have the right to live how they wish(gay,crossdresser,or any ethic group)How can you members here that condem their livestyle? I cannot say that gay's shouldn't be allowed to adopt,hell the children are mistreated in the children homes!!

I don't know the answer to the worlds problems,but one thing I do know is "good old boy" network and religious groups along with a few others have Fucked the world up with their ways!!!!! THANKS AGAIN [}:D]

For some reason a few of the members here have the notion I like every thing the ACLU does,I DO NOT ! I do believe the ACLU does alot of good!! thanks again

The most disturbing things in this thread is not executions (I support the death penalty for high crimes, and for anybody that annoys me on a daily basis), but the fact that this guy's writing style randomly changes.

Today's notes from Spade.

1)Read your post twice, before you hit "submit".

2)According to the various books I have on writing essays and papers, the exclamation point is supposed to [i]rarely[/i] be used, if ever. You're overuse of this punctuation mark makes you sound like either a 12 year old AOL script kiddie, or a major in one of the more ridiculous liberal arts majors that schools have created.
A period is all you ever really need.

3)Christ, they give us a spell check on this board. Use it.

4)It's people like you that make me ashamed to say my major is in PSU's College of Liberal Arts (history and international studies).

The simple fact is that the right to keep and bear arms is enumerated in the US Constitution. I don't see anything there about the right of a man to marry another man, or the right of two lesbians to adopt a baby, or the right of the homosexuals to have their lifestyle accepted as the norm when it so clearly is not.

Some people want us to accept as a "Right" anything that's popular these days.

Hey - I'm interested in rifles. I wonder if you could help me out with a little tech question about yours:

If you look straight down into the muzzle with a round in the chamber and the rifle cocked, do you see any light coming out of it as you pull the trigger? Please check it and let me know.
Thanks!

While I sympathize with the innocents on death row situation, I cannot in any clear conscience support the ACLU.

This organization gave up any right to legitimacy when it agreed to take up the case of NAMBLA.

For those who weren't aware, NAMBLA stands for the North Amercan Man Boy Love Association. These sick F@*ks think it is OK to have sex with young boys. They even have a web site that encourages it, teaches methods and techniques for accomplishing it and then getting away with it.

Sometime last year (I believe) two guys in Massachussetts followed the advice of this organization and raped and murdered a 12 year old boy. The boy's father (rightfully) is now suing NAMBLA for several million dollars.

Needless to say the ACLU has agreed to represent NAMBLA in court to gaurantee it's right to exist.

Kentstate 4 you seem to like doing nothing more than stating a controversial position here and then antagonizing those who disagree with you.

If so fine. IF not can you really say your a member of this organization in clear consciousness? You're concerned about someone who has been lawfully convicted and sentenced to death (and rightfully so)but where's the outrage on this NAMBLA thing.

You have got to be the most irrational and hippocrytical person on this board!

Since this topic has turned into a flame-fest rather than a rational debate on the pro's and con's of our legal system (with some notable exceptions), I would like to insert a plagerized flame for everyone to cut and paste at their (there, or they're) leisure (or liesure) (check my grammar (or Grammer)) (or my Excessive or ExceSivE and inapprpriite OR inappropriate UsE of Capitalism) (or capitals, be they letters or cities or sports teams)))))))))))))

That said:

You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless piece of filth. You are a canker. A sore that won't go away.

You snail-skulled little rabbit. The most humane thing that could happen to you is that a hawk would pick you up, drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose to fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink shame of your ignoble blood.

May you choke on the queasy, convulsing nausea of your own trite, foolish beliefs. You are weary, stale, flat and intolerable. You are grimy, squalid, nasty and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You're a fool, and an ignoramus.

What meaning do you expect your delusionally self-important statements of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with me? What fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle, waiting for the bite of the snake?

You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You are a living emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a disease, you infantile one-handed slack-jawed drooling meatslapper.
You smarmy git. You bloody fop. You gob-kissing gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You fobbing beef-witted clapper-clawed sub-marsupial. You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are degenerate, noxious and depraved. You remind me of a minute particle of Alpine Marmot rectal tissue festering in a large vat of East Indian Plated Rhinoceros semen. I feel debased just for knowing you exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go away.
I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard stupid. Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid, so stupid, that it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know.  Your empty skull is the fulcrum on which all the stupidity in the universe balances upon, waiting like a coiled spring to launch a thought that it is incapable of producing. You are the king of stupid. No, the Emperor of Stupid, the Grand Poo-Bah of Idiots, the Great And Powerful Oz of Stupid. Stupid people journey across the continents to bear witness to your glorious stupidity, drawn to you like a moth to flame with the exact incomprehensible diligence and sense of duty. Somewhere across the great expanse of our universe is a black hole that equals but cannot exceed the power of your stupidity. It draws all light and mass into the dark abyss, much like you. As much as one tries to avoid it, its power cannot be denied, and all those who fight its traction eventually perish in futility relinquishing their souls and their minds in the process.

Having the knowledge of your existence, Mother Theresa would have smothered you as a baby, Ghandi would have buried you to your neck and punted your skull across the Indian sub-continent. Martin Luther King would have gladly sung the praises of segregation to avoid sending his children to the same schools as you.  Bill Clinton would have sworn off sex for the fear of producing another like you. Pat Robertson would hand out condoms at grade schools so as not to risk the success of your lineage. Jerry Falwell would perform abortions for the sake of stopping your cursed offspring from roaming the earth like some satanic wraith.

After this, you may not hear from me again for a while. I don't have enough strength left to deride your ignorant questions and half-baked comments about unimportant trivia, or any of the rest of this drivel. I mean, really, stringing together a bunch of insults among a load of babbling was hardly effective... Maybe later in life, after you have learned to read, write, spell, and count, you will have more success.

True, these are rudimentary skills that many of us normal people take for granted. Everyone has an easy time of mastering them, but we sometimes forget that there are challenged persons in this world who find these things more difficult. If I had known, that this was your case then I would have never spoken to you. It just wouldn't have been right. Sort of like parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the emotional and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand on you.


Sincerely,

Your Name Here (or Hear)

WhaTeVeR,

roy d

The previous posts were my 300th and 301st...I am NOT proud of their content and lack of substance. I would like to apologize for wasting time, energy and bandwidth. Please excuse me now...I will now resume my lurking.


roy d

Mr. Troll,
Let me first start by saying that your ACLU is only interested in fighting for political correctness.  That is the main reason they've stayed away from our cause.  Now, I know you're going to shoot back with the fact that they represented the KKK and other hate groups, but I think we can all agree that censorship of freedom of speech is a little easier to fight than which gun should or should not be banned.  The fact remains that just because bleeding heart liberals like yourself do not believe in the death penalty (similar to belief that noone should be allowed to own a gun), that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a deterent like the death penalty.  

What the ACLU should fight for is quicker executions, because I think the worst thing for a death row inmate must be the wait.  Lets face it, quicker executions for murderers is fitting.  I vote for the hanging also, lets also televise it so there is a real deterent force to it.  (Make the ropes a tad too long every once in awhile also, just to make an impact.)

Once the ACLU quits being so damn PC and fights for the 2nd Amendment, I'll be interested in their cause, just as long as its not supported with rationalization about the poor beaten down black man who deserves another (20th) chance because his white oppressors don't understand his psychology.

On the issue of method of death:
I believe that may it be cruel and/or unusual, the convicted criminal should be put to death in the same means as their victim was (if reasonable, in terms of cost). And, if at all possible to do safely, should be conducted in a public area where people could see. As I believe someone mentioned before, it would make it seem "real" to those prospective criminals.

As MARX would say, "From each according to his ability, and to each according to his needs." I don't see you advocating THAT particular extension of your spock quote, though.

Whenever I hear talk like this--especially on a nominally pro-rights group, it always makes me shiver.  Our legal system is based on the theory that it is better for a thousand men go free, than one innocent be convicted.  Then come statements like "hey, if we fry a few innocents, too bad."

Let me put it another way:  If the needs of the many outweight the needs of the one, why don't you consider donating to the Brady Campaign?  They seem to believe that firearms in the hands of individuals are dangerous to society as a whole.

Because the brady campaign refuses to accept simple logic.

The system works. However, its not perfect. If you can come up with something better and effective I will vote for you. Its unfortunate that a [b]VERY[/b] few will be put to death that are innocent.

Haven't you ever heard or used the term TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM? Granted this is over simplified but you get the point.


Humans make mistakes. It will never be fool proof.

I just wish the appeal process would be shortened to 5 years and make the execution a pay per view event to get some of the money back.

The brady bunch could use this too.
Take one for the team.
Or the NOW women Take a rape for the team.
Again I don't support the ACLU 110%,but I do support them on all rights they protect.I don't know the story on why they are supporting the NAMBLA group.I hardly believe they support sex with children.You should be ashamed to imply it.Like I asked another member here,name 1 group you support 110%,Let's put them under the same mircoscope you have put the ACLU.Remember If you give up 1 right, for others, are not far behind.

Just my 2cents thanks

Well pal, believe it.  Your ACLU defends NAMBLA alright!  Just google up a search and see for yourself.  Enter "ACLU defends NAMBLA" into the search box.

Here's a start.  Happy trails!

[url]http://www.gostrategic.org/dtt/DTTP09B2000.htm[/url]

[b]ACLU Defends Advocates of Man-Boy Sex[/b]  

Once again the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has taken on another controversial case which it views as a defense of First Amendment rights. The ACLU of Massachusetts decided to defend a group that advocates the legalization of sex between men and boys. The case is a $200 million federal lawsuit brought against a group called the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) by the family of a murdered boy. The family charges that the son's death can be attributed to the group's promotion of perverse ideas through literature and its Web-site.

[b][red]According to the FBI Behavioral Sciences Unit, NAMBLA is the largest and most dangerous organization of pedophiles in the U.S.[/b][/red] The ACLU defends its decision to take the case on the basis that the First Amendment exists precisely to protect the most offensive and controversial speech from government suppression. What nonsense! NAMBLA's speech is nothing more than obscenity and the promotion of sexual exploitation of children! And according to one family, this type of speech is not free. It cost them their son.

More...

[url]http://www.gostrategic.org/dtt/DTTP09B2000.htm[/url]

This shits makes me sick just posting it.[puke]

We gun owners already "take one for the team" every time we are treated like criminals just for owning guns, which happens every time we go to buy one (having to do backround checks, to make SURE we're OK),
everytime a cop stops you and asks if you have any weapons, every time a range is closed do to urban sprawl (gotta have soccer fields for all the soccer moms). Shall I go on about how we "take one for the team"??
As for the NOW, they most certianly DO ask women to "take one for the team".
They don't believe that a woman should carry a gun, making the NOW rape enablers, and abuse enablers.
And that doesn't even start to discuss the implications of a possible government takeover of ALL of your rights (which is very much happening) through the liberal political machine.

I always liked Judge Roy Bean's explanation of the death penalty:



The death penalty is an excellent deterrent.  Not one person put to death has ever committed another crime.

Eddie

From your link and doing a quick search I believe the ACLU is wrong,but I still would like to know if it really is a 1st amendant issue.I don't see how.

As the family of the boy that was murdered said "I don't agree with their believe in ablishing the age of minors can have sex with adults "that is their right. I do believe in that statement.As for these sick fucks keeping there website memberlist private,Ineed more information on this.

I don't believe the FBI behavioral science unit
that"NAMBLA is the largest and most dangerous organization in the US". This belongs to the catholic church

How did this group slip the FBI watch?

WTF was this boysparents doing while this took place? I watch my kids like a green bay packer fan watches a bratwarst on the grill.[:D]

Makes me sick too! I guess I'm old fashion I like a women.

Those two murders should've gotten the needle.

Excellent movie. good quote.

All the DNA in the world couldn't convict OJ. So how do we know this DNA hasn't been tainted? IF THE GLOVE DON'T FIT.....YOU MUST ACQUIT!!!!

This is one of the funniest questions I have seen ever. I love it.

In reference to the ACLU announcement of the 100th man freed from death row:


In reference to the murderers of Jeffrey Curley:


Is it just me, or is your hypocrisy showing?

What scares you guys most about this quote?

kentstate4 -

I have some questions for you -

1. Are you old enough to drive?

2. Will you identify a single firearm that you own?

3. Do you know how to end a question - with a question mark?

4.  Do you really care if people take you seriously?


5. If your answer to #4 is yes, do you think people really like to read poorly composed sentences full of misspellings and lousy punctuation?

6. Do you think your 'writing' style is 'cool'?

7. Are you a female?  (My guess is 'yes')

8.  You're not in college, are you?

Care to elaborate on how a church with over 1,000,000,000 members worldwide, that champions many charitable causes, and seeks peace and understanding between all religions is worse than an organization that overtly advocates sexual molestation of little boys?

I'm positively underwhelmed by the sheer lack of any kind of factual support for most of the statements you make.  You debate just like a DUer.