Did I hear right...Kerry believes life begins @ conception, yet STILL supports abortion on demand??? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Did I hear right...Kerry believes life begins @ conception, yet STILL supports abortion on demand??? (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:40:41 AM EDT

[#1]

The problem you have JW, is this.

no abortions are performed after the first trimester, unless it is for the health of the mother.or you have the cash to buy such perks.
so your birth canal analogy is out the door.
And as i said, til it is surviving on its own outside the womb, it's nothing but a parasite to the mother.

Chris

PS: "I don't have a religious "preference". I follow Christ and Him crucified"

From a book, written by man...............

Quoted:
Quoted:
No smart ass remark at all. my firm and just opinion in fact. just as yours.

"But truth does not bend to what you think, and do not expect the rest of humanity to govern itself by your warped outlook."

only gods path is ok, correct? be honest. My outlook is freedom, nothing more.my outlook may in fact be "warped" but at least I'm no fanatic.

You don't believe in abortion. Fine, don't go have one performed. but do not tell the many others out here, NO, just because of your stance and where it comes from. neither side should be "forced" especially for some religious belief.
So far, NOONE has ever tried to force you and yours to have one, why is it fine for you to force others?
freedom huh?

for some I suppose.

and you never answered the question on your religious "preference"

Chris

You are defining freedom as the right to take an innocent human life. You assert that it is fanatical to want to use the force of government to stop the taking of innocent life.

Your belief system is too warped to debate. If you think that a child in the birth canal about to be born is a blob of flesh, while a second later it becomes a human life, then you are too blind to see anything else. In your mind it is more acceptable to kill an 8 month pregnancy than to try and stop it. Nothing is worse than being a fanatic...

Again, the darkness in your heart that makes life all about what YOU want to do without having to face the consequences makes you blind to the truth. Thus there is no point wasting my effort in trying to show you anything.

I don't have a religious "preference". I follow Christ and Him crucified.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:41:44 AM EDT

[#2]

Virginia22...

bottom line IMHO
it's not a human til it can survive outside of the mother. til then, even the mothers own body can be rid of the "parasite" that it is until it is born.

... and you wonder why I won't get into this debate with you!

Wow... just wow!!!

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:42:13 AM EDT

[#3]

I don't agree on the human being at that stage.
that's the impass

Chris

Quoted:
virginia22, as much as some of us don't like it abortion is ok by the law. I for one don't agree with it for religious and personal reasons. I also don't really like the people who stand on the side of the road with dead baby pictures. I always feel like just veering off the road a little whenever I drive by them.

That being said. Since it is legal you need to be honest with yourself. If you do it, you are killing a human being.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:43:17 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
The problem you have JW, is this.

no abortions are performed after the first trimester, unless it is for the health of the mother....

...and the problem with that loophole, is that ANYTHING can be described as "for the health of the mother".
They often claim that being pregnant causes unhealthy stress.

The ambiguous wording is no accident.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:43:32 AM EDT

[#5]

those people are more of the AOG radicals IMHO

Chris

Quoted:
Quoted:
I always feel like just veering off the road a little whenever I drive by them.

Why? Because they are showing the very real consequences of what is going on in the abortion clinics? Pictures of mangled babies are certainly unpleasant. But wouldn't your ire be better reserved for the people who legalize, support, and make a living mangling babies over those who merely show the consequences of such actions?

I really don't get that.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:43:40 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Do you wish to make abortion illegal NY patriot?

then yes, you are.

And this statement
"Don't you see a logical disconnect in his stated positions? "

I see a person of religion who will not inflict that view on to other free Americans based on his personal religious beliefs.
as one who doesn't follow god or view the bible as more than just a book. I appreciate it.

Bay eagle, they are living outside the womb, are they not?

Chris

Yes, and they were living inside the womb as well, were they not?

If they are not alive then they are what? Dead?

Why would doctors bother operating on something that is dead? Fetal surgery is very common nowadays.

And even the liberal state of California will convict you of murder for killing a baby inside a pregnant woman.

Calif court upholds fetus-murder charge

SAN FRANCISCO, April 5 (UPI) -- California's Supreme Court says a a defendant who kills a pregnant woman can be charged with murdering the fetus even if he didn't know she was pregnant.

Monday's ruling reinstating a second-degree murder charge was based on defendant Harold Taylor's general disregard for human life rather than a specific intent to kill the fetus.

The case stemmed from the 1998 slaying of Patty Fansler in Mendocino County by Taylor, her jilted boyfriend. Investigators determined that Taylor wasn't aware that Fansler was 11-13 weeks pregnant, and noted that she showed no obvious physical signs she was expecting.

The court ruled that the act of shooting Fansler showed a disregard for all human life in the apartment even though he was specifically targeting Fansler.

The opinion said California law has provisions that include an unborn fetus in the sections covering homicide.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:44:28 AM EDT

[#7]

read the definition of parasite , it's right there for all to see.
fits the definition IMHO

Chris

Quoted:
Virginia22...

bottom line IMHO
it's not a human til it can survive outside of the mother. til then, even the mothers own body can be rid of the "parasite" that it is until it is born.

... and you wonder why I won't get into this debate with you!

Wow... just wow!!!

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:46:06 AM EDT

[#8]

Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop... Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop... Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop... Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop... Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop... Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...

Any side of any issue...tell a lie enough times and the fools will actually begin to believe it!

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:48:10 AM EDT

[#9]

Kind of like the ark and 2 of "every" creature.

Chris

Quoted:
Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...

Any side of any issue...tell a lie enough times and the fools will actually begin to believe it!

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:48:10 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
The problem you have JW, is this.

no abortions are performed after the first trimester, unless it is for the health of the mother.or you have the cash to buy such perks.

?????????

So A.Partial birth abortions and second trimester abortions don't happen (when I know for a fact that they do, and see people in the hospital to have them all the time) and B. When they do happen they are for the "health of the mother" (which is utterly rediculous because I have seen late abortions done for women who faced MINIMAL RISK from the birth, and I am not alone in this) or if they "have enough cash".

Are you sure you aren't a Kerry supporter?

so your birth canal analogy is out the door.

Maybe in your mind. But in a little place called the REAL WORLD 2nd and 3rd term abortions happen regularly enough.

And as i said, til it is surviving on its own outside the womb, it's nothing but a parasite to the mother.

So dependence is the test of life, in your concept of the world. You realize, of course, that no other organism ON EARTH is defined as alive by your little idea.

FYI--- Life:

1. The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.
2. The characteristic state or condition of a living organism.

But why should science enter into this debate at all?

PS: "I don't have a religious "preference". I follow Christ and Him crucified"

From a book, written by man...............

I follow a risen savior that I commune with regularly. You cannot understand that because you loathe His existence and the fact that you are accountable to Him.

You will find out, however, that no ammount of drug use or wishful thinking will change the fact that one day you will have to face Him and give an account for your life. I will have to do the same, and I have nothing to do before Him but plead the Blood of His Son, Christ Jesus. That makes the difference.

Quoted:
Quoted:
No smart ass remark at all. my firm and just opinion in fact. just as yours.

"But truth does not bend to what you think, and do not expect the rest of humanity to govern itself by your warped outlook."

only gods path is ok, correct? be honest. My outlook is freedom, nothing more.my outlook may in fact be "warped" but at least I'm no fanatic.

You don't believe in abortion. Fine, don't go have one performed. but do not tell the many others out here, NO, just because of your stance and where it comes from. neither side should be "forced" especially for some religious belief.
So far, NOONE has ever tried to force you and yours to have one, why is it fine for you to force others?
freedom huh?

for some I suppose.

and you never answered the question on your religious "preference"

Chris

You are defining freedom as the right to take an innocent human life. You assert that it is fanatical to want to use the force of government to stop the taking of innocent life.

Your belief system is too warped to debate. If you think that a child in the birth canal about to be born is a blob of flesh, while a second later it becomes a human life, then you are too blind to see anything else. In your mind it is more acceptable to kill an 8 month pregnancy than to try and stop it. Nothing is worse than being a fanatic...

Again, the darkness in your heart that makes life all about what YOU want to do without having to face the consequences makes you blind to the truth. Thus there is no point wasting my effort in trying to show you anything.

I don't have a religious "preference". I follow Christ and Him crucified.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:52:53 AM EDT

[#11]

I repeat -- Virginia22 is the guy who was defending the Chechen/Muslim childkiller terrorists on another thread, and citing a socialist website to try and make his hideously misinformed point.

It is unlikely any of us will be successfully showing him the error of his ways today.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:53:51 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I repeat -- Virginia22 is the guy who was defending the Chechen/Muslim childkiller terrorists on another thread, and citing a socialist website to try and make his hideously misinformed point.

It is unlikely any of us will be successfully showing him the error of his ways today.

No, because he is too full of self worship. According to his definition of life, the kids the terrorists killed were just parasites anyway, so at least he is being consistent.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:54:23 AM EDT

[#13]

I follow a risen savior that I commune with regularly. You cannot understand that because you loathe His existence and the fact that you are accountable to Him.

You will find out, however, that no ammount of drug use or wishful thinking will change the fact that one day you will have to face Him and give an account for your life. I will have to do the same, and I have nothing to do before Him but plead the Blood of His Son, Christ Jesus. That makes the difference.

I don't loath his exsistance, I don't believe it.
ah yes, the all encompassing god.

there you go Again insisting your religion is the only way possible.

No sale

Chris

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:54:35 AM EDT

[#14]

LWilde...

Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop...Flip-flop... etc...

Any side of any issue...tell a lie enough times and the fools will actually begin to believe it!

Thanks for putting this thread back on track buddy. Somebody around here is doing his damedest to cloud the issue at hand & divert attention away from John Kerry's indefensible, illogical and hypocritical position.

This topic is not about what a certain someone thinks or believes... it is about what a presidential candidate believes & who he is as a man!

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:56:53 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I always feel like just veering off the road a little whenever I drive by them.

Why? Because they are showing the very real consequences of what is going on in the abortion clinics? Pictures of mangled babies are certainly unpleasant. But wouldn't your ire be better reserved for the people who legalize, support, and make a living mangling babies over those who merely show the consequences of such actions?

I really don't get that.

I am going to type in caps now because I really am yelling.

I AM ON THEIR SIDE, I DON'T LIKE ABORTION. IT IS KILLING HUMANS.

Standing on the side of a road hold dead baby pictures is not going to change the law. There are much more productive things to do with you time if you want a law changed. Nobody here who wants the AWB changed just stands on the side of the road holding pictures of the rifles they would like to buy.

I don't need to be forced to see dead babies. I don't want my daughter to see pictures of dead babies. Yet these assholes are forcing me to see it. Forcing my daughter to see it. And it is wasted time. Spend that time calling elected officials to try and get the law changed.

I am prolife but for the love of God people get your heads out of your asses and your asses off the side of the road and do something productive to get the law changed. I don't want to see another picture of a dead baby as long as I live. It makes me madder at the people who stand there with the signs than at the people who are doing the killing.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:57:20 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you wish to make abortion illegal NY patriot?

then yes, you are.

And this statement
"Don't you see a logical disconnect in his stated positions? "

I see a person of religion who will not inflict that view on to other free Americans based on his personal religious beliefs.
as one who doesn't follow god or view the bible as more than just a book. I appreciate it.

Bay eagle, they are living outside the womb, are they not?

Chris

Yes, and they were living inside the womb as well, were they not?

If they are not alive then they are what? Dead?

Why would doctors bother operating on something that is dead? Fetal surgery is very common nowadays.

And even the liberal state of California will convict you of murder for killing a baby inside a pregnant woman.

Calif court upholds fetus-murder charge

SAN FRANCISCO, April 5 (UPI) -- California's Supreme Court says a a defendant who kills a pregnant woman can be charged with murdering the fetus even if he didn't know she was pregnant.

Monday's ruling reinstating a second-degree murder charge was based on defendant Harold Taylor's general disregard for human life rather than a specific intent to kill the fetus.

The case stemmed from the 1998 slaying of Patty Fansler in Mendocino County by Taylor, her jilted boyfriend. Investigators determined that Taylor wasn't aware that Fansler was 11-13 weeks pregnant, and noted that she showed no obvious physical signs she was expecting.

The court ruled that the act of shooting Fansler showed a disregard for all human life in the apartment even though he was specifically targeting Fansler.

The opinion said California law has provisions that include an unborn fetus in the sections covering homicide.

Sort of off topic, but this court decision is all wrong. Either the womb contains a life, or it doesn't. If it does contain a life, then no one should be able to take that life. If it doesn't, then no one should be charged for killing whatever is in there.

Either throw the abortion doctors in jail, or prosecute no one for harming the child. Trying to have legal abortion and still define killing an unborn child as murder is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. It is a legal and moral contradiction of epic proportions.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:58:22 AM EDT

[#17]

No according to the posts for what people in here would do if their family were attacked in this way.
"I'd kill their whole family including the dog" etc, etc ad nausium

the russians did worse to the chechens,murdered, raped and stabbed men women and children and amazingly the chechens paid them back in the same way as some in here have posted they would..

BUT only the chechens are guilty.
that's typical

Chris

Quoted:
Quoted:
I repeat -- Virginia22 is the guy who was defending the Chechen/Muslim childkiller terrorists on another thread, and citing a socialist website to try and make his hideously misinformed point.

It is unlikely any of us will be successfully showing him the error of his ways today.

No, because he is too full of self worship. According to his definition of life, the kids the terrorists killed were just parasites anyway, so at least he is being consistent.

Posted: 9/8/2004 5:59:35 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
It makes me madder at the people who stand there with the signs than at the people who are doing the killing.

???????

I am not saying that people should be showing toddlers pictures of mangled children.

But when you calm down, you really must admit that last statement is horribly off base....

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:00:00 AM EDT

[#19]

DON'T ALLOW VIRGINIA22 TO HIJACK THIS THREAD!!!

... you guys are playing right into his hands.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:01:33 AM EDT

[#20]

It just goes to show you.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:01:57 AM EDT

[#21]

I am not saying that people should be showing toddlers pictures of mangled children.

In this area, they have kids holding the signs, so that really isn't a truism is it JW?

Chris

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:02:52 AM EDT

[#22]

Oh jesus H kerist.

be for real. either debate your posts, or move aside.

Chris

Quoted:
DON'T ALLOW VIRGINIA22 TO HIJACK THIS THREAD!!!

... you guys are playing right into his hands.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:03:55 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I am not saying that people should be showing toddlers pictures of mangled children.

In this area, they have kids holding the signs, so that really isn't a truism is it JW?

Chris

Stop.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:04:20 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
No according to the posts for what people in here would do if their family were attacked in this way.
"I'd kill their whole family including the dog" etc, etc ad nausium

the russians did worse to the chechens,murdered, raped and stabbed men women and children and amazingly the chechens paid them back in the same way as some in here have posted they would..

BUT only the chechens are guilty.
that's typical

Chris

Quoted:
Quoted:
I repeat -- Virginia22 is the guy who was defending the Chechen/Muslim childkiller terrorists on another thread, and citing a socialist website to try and make his hideously misinformed point.

It is unlikely any of us will be successfully showing him the error of his ways today.

No, because he is too full of self worship. According to his definition of life, the kids the terrorists killed were just parasites anyway, so at least he is being consistent.

You fall into your own trap.

Let us accept, for purpose of arguement, this premise:

That some Russian soldiers comitted attrocities against the Chechen people, including children.

So instead of fighting to hold those people who comitted the crimes accountable, it is permissable and indeed acceptable for a bunch of terrorists to corral and kill a bunch of Russian children who A. Were not doing any of the crimes B. Probably had no idea what was going on anyway and C. Were too young to vote one way or another on the government ordering the abuses.

If your logic ever rules this world, it will be the end of mankind.

I do not advocate EVER the intentional targeting of innocent people and children. I do not accept the NUKE THEM ALL mindset. I believe we should kill the terrorists wherever we find them. I believe that those who give them aid and comfort and protection should also die with them. But never have I supported, and never WILL I support killing off an entire race of human being because of the crimes of a few.

Your attempt at self righteous posturing will not work on me...

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:04:23 AM EDT

[#25]

So you're a socialist, Chechnyan Terrorist apologist, Kerry supporter who thinks babies are parasites.

Did I get all of that?

GodBlessTexas nailed this guy
in another thread:

Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas

$20 troll.

GBT

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:04:37 AM EDT

[#26]

Stop what?
I cannot place my opinions here?

Chris

Quoted:
Quoted:
I am not saying that people should be showing toddlers pictures of mangled children.

In this area, they have kids holding the signs, so that really isn't a truism is it JW?

Chris

Stop.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:05:36 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Stop what?
I cannot place my opinions here?

Chris

Stop

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:05:57 AM EDT

[#28]

Dismissed then.....................

Chris

Quoted:
Quoted:
Stop what?
I cannot place my opinions here?

Chris

Stop

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:06:13 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
DON'T ALLOW VIRGINIA22 TO HIJACK THIS THREAD!!!

... you guys are playing right into his hands.

I don't have a problem debating with someone. But one cannot debate with someone whose philosophy and morality seem to have landed with the pod people.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:06:32 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I don't agree on the human being at that stage.
that's the impass

Chris

Quoted:
virginia22, as much as some of us don't like it abortion is ok by the law. I for one don't agree with it for religious and personal reasons. I also don't really like the people who stand on the side of the road with dead baby pictures. I always feel like just veering off the road a little whenever I drive by them.

That being said. Since it is legal you need to be honest with yourself. If you do it, you are killing a human being.

Like I said you are just fooling yourself if you don't think that a baby at any stage of life is a human. Here is a baby waves picture of my daughter before she was born. She was a human at the time of the picture.

She is even flipping you off.

Here she is now

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:07:11 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
So you're a socialist, Chechnyan Terrorist apologist, Kerry supporter who thinks babies are parasites.

Did I get all of that?

GodBlessTexas nailed this guy
in another thread:

Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas

$20 troll.

GBT

Roger....but you forgot that we should legalize drugs like MJ, because they don't create addicts and they are no real harm to anyone other than the user.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:08:32 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't agree on the human being at that stage.
that's the impass

Chris

Quoted:
virginia22, as much as some of us don't like it abortion is ok by the law. I for one don't agree with it for religious and personal reasons. I also don't really like the people who stand on the side of the road with dead baby pictures. I always feel like just veering off the road a little whenever I drive by them.

That being said. Since it is legal you need to be honest with yourself. If you do it, you are killing a human being.

Like I said you are just fooling yourself if you don't think that a baby at any stage of life is a human. Here is a baby waves picture of my daughter before she was born. She was a human at the time of the picture.
us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/40e0657a_17712/9132/__sr_/f196.jpg?ph5WxPBBHC1b5uhZ
She is even flipping you off.

Here she is now
img69.exs.cx/img69/2842/bell-ar01.jpg

Ok. This REALLY pisses me off.

WHY DOES THAT BABY HAVE ACCESS TO A RIFLE.....

THAT IS SO MUCH COOLER THAN MINE!!!

IT IS NOT FAIR!!!

I have been wanting a flat top for a long time....

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:08:36 AM EDT

[#33]

nope, I'm saying you reap what you sow.

this isnot the chechen thread.

Chris

Quoted:
Quoted:
No according to the posts for what people in here would do if their family were attacked in this way.
"I'd kill their whole family including the dog" etc, etc ad nausium

the russians did worse to the chechens,murdered, raped and stabbed men women and children and amazingly the chechens paid them back in the same way as some in here have posted they would..

BUT only the chechens are guilty.
that's typical

Chris

Quoted:
Quoted:
I repeat -- Virginia22 is the guy who was defending the Chechen/Muslim childkiller terrorists on another thread, and citing a socialist website to try and make his hideously misinformed point.

It is unlikely any of us will be successfully showing him the error of his ways today.

No, because he is too full of self worship. According to his definition of life, the kids the terrorists killed were just parasites anyway, so at least he is being consistent.

You fall into your own trap.

Let us accept, for purpose of arguement, this premise:

That some Russian soldiers comitted attrocities against the Chechen people, including children.

So instead of fighting to hold those people who comitted the crimes accountable, it is permissable and indeed acceptable for a bunch of terrorists to corral and kill a bunch of Russian children who A. Were not doing any of the crimes B. Probably had no idea what was going on anyway and C. Were too young to vote one way or another on the government ordering the abuses.

If your logic ever rules this world, it will be the end of mankind.

I do not advocate EVER the intentional targeting of innocent people and children. I do not accept the NUKE THEM ALL mindset. I believe we should kill the terrorists wherever we find them. I believe that those who give them aid and comfort and protection should also die with them. But never have I supported, and never WILL I support killing off an entire race of human being because of the crimes of a few.

Your attempt at self righteous posturing will not work on me...

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:10:27 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
nope, I'm saying you reap what you sow.

this isnot the chechen thread.
Chris

Well that can't be right, because THAT is in the Bible, big pack of lies that it is....

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:10:55 AM EDT

[#35]

pod people huh?

kind of like that book you read? if you're only going to insult, what's the point JW? have your god and his orders for you.

i don't need it.

all hail jeebus.........I'm out

Chris

Quoted:
Quoted:
DON'T ALLOW VIRGINIA22 TO HIJACK THIS THREAD!!!

... you guys are playing right into his hands.

I don't have a problem debating with someone. But one cannot debate with someone whose philosophy and morality seem to have landed with the pod people.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:11:19 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
It makes me madder at the people who stand there with the signs than at the people who are doing the killing.

???????

I am not saying that people should be showing toddlers pictures of mangled children.

But when you calm down, you really must admit that last statement is horribly off base....

No I am serious. I hate the people who force me to see pictures of dead babies. We have a real problem with it here. There is this one asshole who drives a big truck around with giant pictures (like 10' high) of dead mangled babies on the side of it. I would love to just get out of my car the next time I see him and beat him for making me see that. And I am on his side.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:11:34 AM EDT

[#37]

then you should understand 100% shouldn't you? snicker
Chris

Quoted:
Quoted:
nope, I'm saying you reap what you sow.

this isnot the chechen thread.
Chris

Well that can't be right, because THAT is in the Bible, big pack of lies that it is....

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:12:10 AM EDT

[#38]

I find it simply amazing that so many of my fellow Americans murder unborn babies with such ease, all in the name of "choice".

Like it or not virginia22, human life begins long before birth. What is growing inside of a pregnant woman isn't a "fetus"...it isn't a parasite either: it is a human baby. In a very short period of 36-39 weeks, a new human will emerge...if not murdered by those who believe like you that the baby is nothing more than a parasite and subject to the same moral and ethical standards you would impose on a flea.

I am not a religious person, so you need not waste your energy on false accusations. Religiosity has no part in my argument. Ethics most assuredly does. Personally, I don't believe in "life" at the instant of conception. That said, at about six weeks, we have a bady well on the way. Development after that is phenomonally quick as has been previously stated here already so eloquently.

IF it is illegal to kill a baby in utero, why are abortions, especially partial birth abortions still legal? Why does our society still condone murder of the innocents? Why do we condone a procedure done here by a physician with "instruments" and vacuums, yet decry the murders of the innocents by Chechen Islamofacists with AK-47s and grenades and the murders of Israeli innocents by Hezbollah Islamofacists with strap on bombs?

Please explain this dichotomy to me. This old scholar's mind still doesn't get it. Since you seem to be so well versed in this subject, I thought maybe you might be able to provide some cogent insight.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:13:34 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
pod people huh?

kind of like that book you read? if you're only going to insult, what's the point JW? have your god and his orders for you.

i don't need it.

all hail jeebus.........I'm out

Chris

This guy, whatever his faults, has more nerve than I have seen in a long time....

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:14:58 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
I find it simply amazing that so many of my fellow Americans murder unborn babies with such ease, all in the name of "choice".

Like it or not virginia22, human life begins long before birth. What is growing inside of a pregnant woman isn't a "fetus"...it isn't a parasite either: it is a human baby. In a very short period of 36-39 weeks, a new human will emerge...if not murdered by those who believe like you that the baby is nothing more than a parasite and subject to the same moral and ethical standards you would impose on a flea.

I am not a religious person, so you need not waste your energy on false accusations. Religiosity has no part in my argument. Ethics most assuredly does. Personally, I don't believe in "life" at the instant of conception. That said, at about six weeks, we have a bady well on the way. Development after that is phenomonally quick as has been previously stated here already so eloquently.

IF it is illegal to kill a baby in utero, why are abortions, especially partial birth abortions still legal? Why does our society still condone murder of the innocents? Why do we condone a procedure done here by a physician with "instruments" and vacuums, yet decry the murders of the innocents by Chechen Islamofacists with AK-47s and grenades and the murders of Israeli innocents by Hezbollah Islamofacists with strap on bombs?

Please explain this dichotomy to me. This old scholar's mind still doesn't get it. Since you seem to be so well versed in this subject, I thought maybe you might be able to provide some cogent insight.

Darn....Where's the "It's a trap!" picture when I need it....

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:16:29 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't agree on the human being at that stage.
that's the impass

Chris

Quoted:
virginia22, as much as some of us don't like it abortion is ok by the law. I for one don't agree with it for religious and personal reasons. I also don't really like the people who stand on the side of the road with dead baby pictures. I always feel like just veering off the road a little whenever I drive by them.

That being said. Since it is legal you need to be honest with yourself. If you do it, you are killing a human being.

Like I said you are just fooling yourself if you don't think that a baby at any stage of life is a human. Here is a baby waves picture of my daughter before she was born. She was a human at the time of the picture.
us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/40e0657a_17712/9132/__sr_/f196.jpg?ph5WxPBBHC1b5uhZ
She is even flipping you off.

Here she is now
img69.exs.cx/img69/2842/bell-ar01.jpg

Ok. This REALLY pisses me off.

WHY DOES THAT BABY HAVE ACCESS TO A RIFLE.....

THAT IS SO MUCH COOLER THAN MINE!!!

IT IS NOT FAIR!!!

I have been wanting a flat top for a long time....

I am surprised you could even spot her in the pic. She is in her crib camo after all.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:19:10 AM EDT

[#42]

Oh well... so much for this thread staying on topic.

I guess it was worth it however, if it exposes "Vagina22" for what he is...

"a socialist, Chechnyan Terrorist apologist, Kerry supporter who thinks babies are parasites."

So... what's the over/under on when his account will be locked???

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:19:22 AM EDT

[#43]

My guess would be so that all have access to abortion. not just those who decry it, until it's their 15 yr old kid knocked up.

reguardless of "the law" they will still be done. for some, a back alley (where my wifes aunt almost died) or a money grubber doctor who you pay as you play in the hospital.

I choose a clean hospital with less chance of dying from the procedure.

Chris

Quoted:
I find it simply amazing that so many of my fellow Americans murder unborn babies with such ease, all in the name of "choice".

Like it or not virginia22, human life begins long before birth. What is growing inside of a pregnant woman isn't a "fetus"...it isn't a parasite either: it is a human baby. In a very short period of 36-39 weeks, a new human will emerge...if not murdered by those who believe like you that the baby is nothing more than a parasite and subject to the same moral and ethical standards you would impose on a flea.

I am not a religious person, so you need not waste your energy on false accusations. Religiosity has no part in my argument. Ethics most assuredly does. Personally, I don't believe in "life" at the instant of conception. That said, at about six weeks, we have a bady well on the way. Development after that is phenomonally quick as has been previously stated here already so eloquently.

IF it is illegal to kill a baby in utero, why are abortions, especially partial birth abortions still legal? Why does our society still condone murder of the innocents? Why do we condone a procedure done here by a physician with "instruments" and vacuums, yet decry the murders of the innocents by Chechen Islamofacists with AK-47s and grenades and the murders of Israeli innocents by Hezbollah Islamofacists with strap on bombs?

Please explain this dichotomy to me. This old scholar's mind still doesn't get it. Since you seem to be so well versed in this subject, I thought maybe you might be able to provide some cogent insight.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:21:01 AM EDT

[#44]

why, because I compare your "pod people" analogy to the bible being a book from the pod people.

What's the difference. ?
Chris

Quoted:
Quoted:
pod people huh?

kind of like that book you read? if you're only going to insult, what's the point JW? have your god and his orders for you.

i don't need it.

all hail jeebus.........I'm out

Chris

This guy, whatever his faults, has more nerve than I have seen in a long time....

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:21:23 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
My guess would be so that all have access to abortion. not just those who decry it, until it's their 15 yr old kid knocked up.

reguardless of "the law" they will still be done. for some, a back alley (where my wifes aunt almost died) or a money grubber doctor who you pay as you play in the hospital.

I choose a clean hospital with less chance of dying from the procedure.

Chris

Quoted:
I find it simply amazing that so many of my fellow Americans murder unborn babies with such ease, all in the name of "choice".

Like it or not virginia22, human life begins long before birth. What is growing inside of a pregnant woman isn't a "fetus"...it isn't a parasite either: it is a human baby. In a very short period of 36-39 weeks, a new human will emerge...if not murdered by those who believe like you that the baby is nothing more than a parasite and subject to the same moral and ethical standards you would impose on a flea.

I am not a religious person, so you need not waste your energy on false accusations. Religiosity has no part in my argument. Ethics most assuredly does. Personally, I don't believe in "life" at the instant of conception. That said, at about six weeks, we have a bady well on the way. Development after that is phenomonally quick as has been previously stated here already so eloquently.

IF it is illegal to kill a baby in utero, why are abortions, especially partial birth abortions still legal? Why does our society still condone murder of the innocents? Why do we condone a procedure done here by a physician with "instruments" and vacuums, yet decry the murders of the innocents by Chechen Islamofacists with AK-47s and grenades and the murders of Israeli innocents by Hezbollah Islamofacists with strap on bombs?

Please explain this dichotomy to me. This old scholar's mind still doesn't get it. Since you seem to be so well versed in this subject, I thought maybe you might be able to provide some cogent insight.

If my 15yr old daughter gets knocked up it would still be my grandchild that she would be killing.

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:21:52 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
why, because I compare your "pod people" analogy to the bible being a book from the pod people.

What's the difference. ?
Chris

STOP

Posted: 9/8/2004 6:23:10 AM EDT

[#47]

So far, I haven't attacked anyone and have debated nicely to most involved here.
I got locked in the chechen thread for being the wrong venue. this has pretty much stayed on the abortion issue you raised.

Chris

Quoted:
Oh well... so much for this thread staying on topic.

I guess it was worth it however, if it exposes "Vagina22" for what he is...
"a socialist, Chechnyan Terrorist apologist, Kerry supporter who thinks babies are parasites."

So... what's the over/under on when his account will be locked???