Quoted: Quoted: [quote]Quoted: Since this thread has run it's course, I have a question. Where did this quote come from? "Socialism cannot thrive in the United States as long as we have an ARMED middle class"-Sarah Brady (Handgun Control Incorporated-Gungrabbers et al) 96Ag google search: "SARAH BRADY QUOTE" It was published on Page 3 V.25 #8 of "The National Educator" January 1994 LOOK IT UP UNBELIEVERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I read it years ago these pro-gun publications: Solder of Fortune American Rifleman (NRA) Guns and Ammo Second Amendment Foundation What do YOU think about this quote from Sarah Brady?

Are you saying that Sarah Brady is really a socialist and all the gunhating bit is just smoke and mirrors?

Quoted: Quoted: This isn't a pro-democrat thread so much as it is a thread to determin what the prevailing attitude here is regarding the comparison of all Democrats being Marxists (as garandbum affirmatively stated in another topic). And I've been vindicated.

Yes, you have indeed!

I simply cannot imagine where Ben is off to, nowadays.

Well, actually, I can imagine, but it ain't very pretty, I can tell you that.

Eric The(LaLaLand)Hun

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: [quote]Quoted: Since this thread has run it's course, I have a question. Where did this quote come from? "Socialism cannot thrive in the United States as long as we have an ARMED middle class"-Sarah Brady (Handgun Control Incorporated-Gungrabbers et al) 96Ag google search: "SARAH BRADY QUOTE" It was published on Page 3 V.25 #8 of "The National Educator" January 1994 LOOK IT UP UNBELIEVERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I read it years ago these pro-gun publications: Solder of Fortune American Rifleman (NRA) Guns and Ammo Second Amendment Foundation What do YOU think about this quote from Sarah Brady? Well Lonewolff I have said in another thread that I believe her to be a domestic enemy of the Constitution. Here's a question that any Vince Flynn readers should recognize. What happens when the servicemen who have been tasked with defending the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic realize that the representatives back home represent a greater threat to that Constitution and the nation than some third world goat herd And Thanks Lonewolf for looking that up. 96Ag

Do you have any more information supporting the hypothesis that she is a socialist and all the gunhating bit is nothing but smoke and mirrors?

Quoted: Quoted: Do you have any more information supporting the hypothesis that she is a socialist and all the gunhating bit is nothing but smoke and mirrors? I look at it this way - Do you think she comes to hate guns out of a logical analyses of the facts??? Obvious answer: No Do you think she hates guns cuz shes genuinely afraid guns might jump up and go out on a shooting spree on their own??? Obvious  answer: No Then where does it come from, her hatred of guns?? Likely answer: Her desire to elevate gov't over people, to subjugate the masses to her vision of utopia. While these may not in and of themselves define Marxism, they are wholly in keeping with Marxist idieoogy.

Marxist ideology is economic in nature.  I have a very hard time understanding how something that is not economic in nature is 'in keeping' with an ideology that is.

Quoted: Quoted: Marxist ideology is economic in nature.  I have a very hard time understanding how something that is not economic in nature is 'in keeping' with an ideology that is. Simple. Guns = power. Money = power. The people controlling all the guns and money got all the power. The Marxists can't enforce their ecomonic worldview with an armed peasantry. AGain, don;t confuse theoretical Marxism with its practical, real world counterpart. As practiced today, Marxism is simply utilizing Marx's ideals to grab pwoer. As a side note, what is the "economic" component of this major tenet of Marxism - "free education for all in public schools?"

Yeah, but why do you think that Sarah Barady's motivation is Marxism, and not a simple irrational hatred of guns?  Don't make me pull out Occam's Razor to slice up your argument

I'm not going to read the entire thread, and someone probably already said this, but the majority of rank-and-file Democrats are just useful tools.  The Democrat leaders are, without doubt, Marxists, and only barely bother to hide it of late.  

Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, but why do you think that Sarah Barady's motivation is Marxism, and not a simple irrational hatred of guns?   Because she is NOT an irrational person. i.e. she is NOT crazy. There must be SOME underlying motivation. I can't say it IS Marxism, but I CAN say it is wholly in keeping with Marxist principles.

Wasn't a quote attributed to her following the "Republican Revolution" in 1995 that said (paraphrased) "Our march toward socialism will continue in spite of the Republican takeover of Congress"?  I think it was at some women's college in the northeast.  

Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, but why do you think that Sarah Barady's motivation is Marxism, and not a simple irrational hatred of guns?   Because she is NOT an irrational person. i.e. she is NOT crazy. There must be SOME underlying motivation. I can't say it IS Marxism, but I CAN say it is wholly in keeping with Marxist principles.

It is wholly in keeping with a lot of principles.  But like any  other theory which says that those principles are her true motivation, there is no evidence other than fabricated evidence.
Sarah Brady likely is not crazy, but her viewpoint on guns is emotioinally driven and it disregards facts, making it irrational.
As beekeep said, she may well be a Marxist pawn, but she herself is not Marxist.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, but why do you think that Sarah Barady's motivation is Marxism, and not a simple irrational hatred of guns?   Because she is NOT an irrational person. i.e. she is NOT crazy. There must be SOME underlying motivation. I can't say it IS Marxism, but I CAN say it is wholly in keeping with Marxist principles. Wasn't a quote attributed to her following the "Republican Revolution" in 1995 that said (paraphrased) "Our march toward socialism will continue in spite of the Republican takeover of Congress"?  I think it was at some women's college in the northeast.

Fake gun quotes www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcbogus.html
Her socialist quote is on there.

The "Socialist America" quote from "Sarah Brady"

"Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us are totally disarmed."
        ---Falsely (hilariously?) attributed to Sarah Brady of Handgun Control, Inc. supposedly in The American Educator, published by the American Federation of Teachers (or alternatively, attributed to a speech to AARP, late 1991) [GunCite: Currently, far more commonly cited as The National Educator, January, 1994, Page 3.]
This bit of dialogue is reminiscent of a bad movie, and even if Sarah Brady really were bent on fighting for international socialism, she's not quite stupid enough to say so out loud! [GunCite comment: The Bradys used to be registered as Republicans. It is unlikely they would harbor a belief in a socialist America. (Sarah Brady is now registered as an independent.) ] Even Lyndon LaRouche couldn't believe this conspiracy...
[More from GunCite:

According to gun rights activist Chris Knox (Neal Knox's son):
"The quote originally appeared in Machine Gun News, June 1991, Volume 5, Number 1, page 6. in the column "RAFFICA" by Dan Shea, Column 2, Paragraph 2. (Also see Dan Shea's comments, which drives a proverbial stake through the heart of this apocryphal quote).
"Neal Knox checked into this extensively -- before it appeared in the National Educator -- and concluded that this quote just never happened."

"It simply sounds bogus on its face, sounding more like dialogue from a bad 1930s propaganda movie than anything a real person would say. It's often easier to believe something we'd really like to see."

(The National Educator is described by the Anti-Defamation League as an anti-Semitic periodical "whose pages have honored the leaders of the far-right terrorist gang called The Order and the neo-Nazi paramilitary group, Aryan Nations." Source: ARMED & DANGEROUS: MILITIAS TAKE AIM AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT: AN ADL FACT FINDING REPORT, Anti-Defamation League, 1994. In other words the National Educator is something other than a professional magazine for school teachers).
The Second Amendment Foundation also comments:

"This phony quote is often cited as a statement from Sarah Brady, Chairman, HCI, to Howard Metzenbaum, The National Educator, January, 1994, Page 3. "Sarah" and "Metzenbaum" are sometimes misspelled as "Sara" and "Metzanbaum" on the Internet. [T]he common citation does not check out."]
Even a bogus quote can't be kept straight. Like a virus there are several strains and contradictions. To see how silly it gets and how NOT to defend gun rights or present a gun control argument, click here.

"Jim 'the Bear' Brady has (or had) a Class III FFL!"

This falls more into the category of an "urban legend" than an actual quote, and most likely resulted from a case of mistaken identity. If Sarah, who's a conservative Republican in most other respects (aside from her fetish for gun control), can have a secret double life as a closet Communist, can we then suppose that poor "gun victim" Jim can "rock-and-roll" with his machinegun habit?

Can we imagine him at Jay Rockefeller's range wearing a "Happiness Is a Belt-Fed Weapon" T-shirt, as the Norinco brass mounds up in the spokes of his wheelchair? Not bloody likely.

Republican senatorial candidate Al Salvi of Illinois found out the hard way in October of 1996 how not checking one's facts before opening one's mouth can cost you. Salvi... at a fundraiser [said]: "Jim Brady was a licensed machinegun dealer before he was shot." Salvi apologized publicly and retracted the statement. There's obviously more than one James Brady in the world, and in BATF's record books.

Quoted: Republican senatorial candidate Al Salvi of Illinois found out the hard way in October of 1996 how not checking one's facts before opening one's mouth can cost you. Salvi... at a fundraiser [said]: "Jim Brady was a licensed machinegun dealer before he was shot." Salvi apologized publicly and retracted the statement. There's obviously more than one James Brady in the world, and in BATF's record books.

I was right in the frigging middle of that debacle.  He obtained the quote from the President of the Illinois State Rifle Association, and/or his wife, James and Patricia Valentino.  They swore they knew Brady personally and "He liked his machine guns."  She (Patricia) told me that personally at a fundraising event dinner.  Following his loss, when Salvi decided to run again (for something else), he sent a letter, which was widely published as an editorial saying, "I was wrong about the Second Amendment" and REALLY harpooned us.  

Quoted: Quoted: Sarah Brady likely is not crazy, but her viewpoint on guns is emotioinally driven and it disregards facts, making it irrational. . So you just think its the (pardon my French) "bitch" factor that makes her anti gun?? I think that's naieve. SHe is NOT an emotional person. COld and calcualting. Elsewise why did she purchase a "sniper rifle" for her son in a "straw purchase"??? Guns for me, but NOT for you. She isn't against guns. She's against guns for the peasants. That's close enuf to Marxism for me.

Okay garandman.

Quoted: Quoted: Okay garandman. OK then Doublefeed.

Can't talk you into getting baited?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Marxist ideology is economic in nature.  I have a very hard time understanding how something that is not economic in nature is 'in keeping' with an ideology that is. Rather, it claims to be economic, but it represents flawed economic thought. . . . I suspect the party line that "marxism is an economic system" is usd by the left to hide Marxisms fangs. Its too shallow a reading of what Marxism is all about. Yes, its about control of the means of production. But at its core its about control. Undrelying control is the necessity of disarming the peasantry. As such, gun control is inherently Marxism. Marxism assumes it. Marxism CANNOT exist without gun control. Becasue Marxism IS control. Raw, brute force control.

The issue isn't the above.  The issue is whether Sarah Brady is a Marxist.

Quoted: Con sider the Ten Measure of Marxism I referred to above - l) Abolition of property in land and application of all Rents on land to public purposes. 2) A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. 3) Abolition of all right of inheritance. 4) Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. 5) Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. 6) Centralization of communication and transport in the hands of the state. 7) Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing in cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. 8) Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. 9) Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of population over the country. 10) Free education for all children in public schools Yes many have to do with economics, but ALL have to do with control. Take away peoples inheritance. Then take away their present income. Take away their ability to raise capital. Take away their ability to engage in commerce, to communicate or to transport themselves or anything else. Then take away their children to re-educate them against any vestiges of capitalistic thought. How you figger you gonna do all that? People are just all gonna lie down and take it??? Duh!!! You gotta disarm them first. Gun control is so essential to Marxism that its unnecessary to even mention it as being part of Marxist doctrine..

I know all that, but somebody pulled out a Sarah Brady quote espousing socialism, and you took it and ran with it.
Are you going to keep dancing?

Quoted: Quoted:  The issue is whether Sarah Brady is a Marxist. If you are looking for hardcore, court of law proof, well that seldom exists in the realm of politics. But gun control is SOO essential to Marxism that you can legitimately speculate that a person of her high profile and achievement has Marxist leanings. I can't prove to you Geroge Bush is a Christian. But intelligent people can look at the facts, and draw their own conclusions.

I won't argue that she leans that direction, but I WILL debate until we are both blue in the face that socialism is her actual goal.
Disarmament of the chattering classes is her goal.  There is no evidence that she desires otherwise, other than fake quotes being batted around the net.

Quoted: Quoted: I won't argue that she leans that direction, but I WILL debate until we are both blue in the face that socialism is her actual goal. Disarmament of the chattering classes is her goal.  There is no evidence that she desires otherwise, other than fake quotes being batted around the net. What then do you think is her motivation?? The "bitch" factor?? Do you really think she is an irrational person??? Does she have to SAY socialism / marxism is her goal in order for it to be so??? Isn't laying the foundation of marxism (as gun control does) evidence that there is something mroe sinister here than PMS???

Disarmament of those she feels aren't good enough to own guns is her goal.  Getting rid of 'bad guns' is her goal.
Remember Occam's Razor.  OR simplified: The simplest explanation is usually correct.
I believe she is what she says she is, and she simply hates most guns and nearly all gun owners.

Quoted: She didn't hate that rifle she bought for her son.

I said 'most' guns and 'nearly all' gun owners.
That rifle for her son is okay.

Quoted: Quoted: Disarmament of those she feels aren't good enough to own guns is her goal.  Getting rid of 'bad guns' is her goal. SO you think there is nothing beyond that? So you admit she LIKES selective ownership of guns, and you don't think there is any thing underlying that postion?? History doesn't bear your thinking out. Guns have NEVER been taken away without some devious political agenda  / goal for AFTER the guns a re confiscated. NEVER. Remember Occam's Razor.  OR simplified: The simplest explanation is usually correct. I believe she is what she says she is, and she simply hates most guns and nearly all gun owners. Occam's Razor usually doesn't apply to politics, as politics is agenda based..  Politics is about power, which means it has NO altrusitic manifestation. Geting rid of guns for the sake of getting rid of guns has a, though twisted,  altruistic tint to it. Politics is ALWAYS about power and force. But you STILL ahven't answered the underlying question - WHY does she hate gun owners? Either there is a reason she hates them, or you think she is an irrational person. There is ONLY ONE reason to hate gun owners - they stand in the way of your utilmate goal. And in you painting ehr an an irrational hater does NOT recognize the danger she truly is.

The above can be easily addressed by pointing out that she will simply act as a pawn in a larger game.  She doesn't have socialism in mind, but merely disarmament.  What she does will simply fit into the larger goals of OTHER people.
There IS a reason she hates gun owners, and it is right in front of you.  She has falsely linked the presence of guns in her husband's shooting and crime with the cause of crime.  It is a common error of logic.  If she has analyzed the facts and arrived at the truth by now, she has rejected it in favor of poltical power that comes with being the leader of a movement.  Naturally, there is the money that comes along with that.